8 Passengers Ruby Franke and "Therapist" Jodi Hildebrandt Arrested - The Mormon Angle | Ep. 1805 

What does an adult do if they forget their lunch? Do you go hungry? No. You go buy something, get delivery, etc. Yet a 6 year-old child is expected to go hungry. So she's imposing standards on a little kid that adults don't even have to abide by. This is enraging.

As a teacher, yes, I would step in and give her lunch. She’s 6 and no, you shouldn’t feel ok about leaving the teacher feeling uncomfortable about YOUR daughter being hungry. We had a 6 year old hop in the car for school without putting shoes on. The teacher called his mom to ask to bring him shoes. His mom wouldn’t bring him shoes to teach him a lesson to bring shoes next time. That was a punishment for the teacher who didn’t get a break from kids that day because he had to stay inside for recess with her while she ate her lunch. It’s your responsibility as a parent to make sure that your kids, especially 6 year old kids, leave the house with shoes and lunch every day.

I was sent to a teen program owned by and LDS family in Arizona for over a year when I was 16. The church not only suggested it to my parents, they also paid for the entire thing- over $50,000. It was horrific emotional and mental abuse I still struggle with 25 years later. I’d love to see all those programs shut down.

Having raised 2 wonderful, smart, compassionate daughters (who both, it turns out, have ADHD), I can't even begin to imagine letting them go hungry for things they forgot to do when they were little. Kids, even if they don't have ADHD, are all little space cadets, because their minds are busy figuring out this thing called Life. What a horrible thing, to punish them for being human.

The scariest part is how much delight Ruby takes in talking about her punishments.

it's crazy how social workers seem to think neat and tidy people can't be abusers... Our home was neat and tidy BECAUSE of abusive screaming and yelling and dragging kids out of dead sleep at 3am to "complete the chore chart" that was sterile hospital environment level nutso. How many non abusive cluttery people are dragged through the ringer because they don't have a dishwasher or live in a small sq ft house that looks more messy than a rich person with 3000sqft house with the exact same number of items "out" of place. As kids initialy it felt affirming that our mom was being reported but you know how many times we bothered to speak up to CPS after they kept LEAVING us in the home after investigating and being enamored by the martha stewart decor-zero times. what's the point. so we can be in extra trouble when you leave? I'm tired of social worker excuses. You don't have a good model to assess abuse. That's the bottom line. You're bias and shooting in the dark. Being overworked isn't the real core of the issue.

Ruby Franke sounds like she was 3 steps away from us finding her kids missing and deceased ala Lori Vallow. The greatest news is that one of her children was given the strength to escape and get help for themself and their siblings. Getting these children away from this household is the best thing for them. Her husband is also culpable for allowing this to happen!

"No limit to what they can justify when they have defined abuse as love" -- Jordan. YES! That says it all. Thank you, Jordan

Never once did I go to school without my lunch or bus money ( to come home ). Never once. Neither did any of my 5 siblings. My mom was in charge of making sure when we left we had all we needed to take. No drama ever !!! Thanks MOM :)

This is a huge case. It has already reached the news in my country, Portugal. I really hope Ruby, Jodi, but also Kevin don't get away with this.

Ruby strikes me as a straight-up psychopath. She’s cruel to her children just because, and she gets a kick out of it. She smiles and giggles talking about the abuse. It’s horrific.

Never once did "the gift of pain" cross my mind when I think of my child, regardless of if i thought he needed to learn a lesson. As a parent, as much as I want to protect him from all pain, the thought of contributing to it hurts my heart.

Thank you John & MSP for having us on again! It’s always an honor! ❤️ -Jordan & McKay

Ruby is a sadist. She might not admit it to herself, but she takes pleasure in her kids pain. There is no other name for her behavior. Who knows what went on when the cameras weren't on...

Thank you for covering this story. Ruby wanted to absolutely break her child’s spirit and have complete compliance. How absolutely tragic when a mother stops feeling, understanding and empathising with what her child is going through. What a complicated trauma those children much have when this treatment by their mother is construed as ‘love’

Children aren’t little manipulative adults walking around trying to trick parents with some voodoo into giving them love and Pepperidge Farm cookies. Parents that parent from that mindset windup raising manipulative adults that are still just little kids trying desperately to get their needs met getting into all kinds of bad situations. It’s is a survival trait. Too many parents walking around wanting Bare Minimum Awards. Thanks to you all. This has been an incredible show. I love the time you take on giving all the story instead of just little sensationalized tidbits

John, I greatly appreciate your push to describe the pictures and what is going on to make this site more accessible for those with disabilities.

@JordanandMcKay, @Mormon Stories Podcast as a former watcher of 8passengers I quickly want to give two examples of the youngest daughter's "egregious" behavior, that was pointed out in two vlogs. 1) The first one must haven taken place shortly after Jodi came into their lives. It was still in the old house, around 2019, so E. was 5 or 6 years old. The family was getting ready to go to the movies when it was decided that Ruby would stay home with E., because E. had to be punished for not being "humble". Now what could a 5/6 year old have done to not be humble? She had asked which movie they were going to see. Yep. A question that 99,9% of people would ask if they were going to the movies. But Ruby explained that the children had to be grateful for whichever movie they were going to see. Now just to make that clear: it was NOT that E. had asked which movie they were going to see, was told which one it was and then threw a tantrum. NOTHING the like. Simply her asking about the movie was considered entitled/ungrateful/not humble and had to be punished. 2) The other incident was in the new house, so must have been a year or two later, with E. now being 6 or 7. The video was titled something like "being sick sucks" or whatever. In it, Ruby told us that E. was having a pretty high fever and was sick in bed. She went on to explain that she had heard E. whimpering throughout the night and at one time get up and go downstairs in the kitchen to get herself some ice. Ruby went on to explain that she did NOT get up to check on E., because she thought her 6 year old daughter whimpering throughout the night was an attempt of manipulation. So this mom didn't check on her little girl who was clearly in distress to punish her for "manipulating" her parents. She was also gleaming when she was recounting this story and didn't seem to feel any kind of remorse about her behavior, even when she found out the next morning that E. was actually sick. These are the types of "behavior" the little kids displayed to be labled as being "in distortion" by Jodi and Ruby. On a side note: E. sometimes got in trouble at school for kinda being the class clown. Which is tragic, because this behavior was actually taught to her by Ruby. E. was constantly filmed since she was a toddler and she was made to act early on. If she did something funny or cute and the camera wasn't on, she was encouraged to reenact it for the camera. She was praised for being silly/funny/spunky/cute in front of the camera all the time, she was told that viewers loved it and was given more attention from her mom when behaving like that, because she delievered content for Ruby's camera. She was absolutely groomed to be hyper and acting to entertain and make people like her. It doesn't come as a surprise then that a 5/6/7 year old applies the same methods to be liked at school. It was the one behavior she knew would get her attention and love.

She’s an absolute piece of work with her perfect hair and makeup and outfits, while she passes judgment on a nine yr old kid for not being humble enough or having sufficient gratitude. Heart breaking to see the earlier videos of Russell and Eve and know that they wound up bound and starved by their lunatic mother. She’s too proud and stubborn to show any remorse or back down from her ridiculous nonsense so hopefully the judge will throw the book at her and she’ll sit in prison for YEARS. Happy 10th Birthday to little Eve, I hope she gets to see her older sister at least. In the video where Ruby threatened to cut off her bear’s head, Sherri swooped in to hug her and I suspect that happened a lot.

My daughter forgot her lunch when she was about six. I ended up doordashing chick-fil-a so she had nuggets, fruit, and milk. I don’t make millions like Ruby does; it was an expensive meal for her but she had to eat. Just putting it out there that there are ways around it if you can’t get back to the school. What Ruby did is inexcusable.

I am a 58 year old grandma that started watching the Griffiths families in 2015 when I was living in a different state than my own grandchildren and missed them terribly. I stopped watching Ruby about 2 and a half years ago because her actions with her kids made me very uncomfortable. I never dreamed something this severe would happen. My heart is just breaking for those kids. And their grandparents being so far away. Their father is equally as responsible as Ruby is for those kids conditions, he has no excuse for not knowing.

A side note on Ruby denying to bring Eve a lunch at school: it had been mentioned in previous vlogs that Eve was underweight and her pediatrician was concerned and had instructed Ruby on getting her to take in more calories. I had watched their vlogs, and that point was what horrified me the most. There obviously were huge issues with food!!!

Ruby's "if your child is on fire, you hurt them to put the fire out" example is INSANE. I have literally had a friend set themselves (accidentally) on fire, and my brother put them out by tackling them with a blanket. IT. DID. NOT. HURT. HER. She was just instantly relieved. Yes, the burns hurt, but literally nobody thought that my brother was doing anything but helping. There was no "Why are you abusing her?" Ruby is bizarre and clearly delusional and unsafe. Jail is the best place for her; there is no way she needs to be running around free to interact with innocent and unsuspecting humans, children or otherwise.

One of the most sad parts is when the 911 reporting call, he said that the escaped child said, It’s my fault. Rips the heart.

I was filling my husband in on this situation and I just said “I want Jordan and McKays Mormon perspective on this”. Now we get Johns too?! This is a HORRIBLE developing story, and I am dying to hear your perspectives. Pressing play, here we go….

I have been watching tons of footage about this story and this was BY FAR the best , most comprehensive, and fair coverage of it. Thank you.

The lunch "consequence" is wild to me. As an adult if I forget my lunch I can go buy something or order something or ask my partner to drop it by. It's wild to me that people expect kids to be more responsible than adults. I forget things often and people help me because we are all human. Her poor kids

Halloween day, my boys could dress in costumes for school , a lunch time parade. The boys had a hurried breakfast, and snack at recess, probably a couple of hours later. In the lunch line my son fainted, fell forward, broke out front teeth. The pediatrician ran a pyramid of tests, he told us that it was likely hyperglycemia, low blood sugar. He was not diabetic, and never had another episode. Food is fuel, life, not optional

You can see that Ruby is clearly enjoying abusing her kids because every time she describes what she’s doing to them she looks so gleeful or is laughing. What a disgusting, cruel woman. I hope she gets the prison time she deserves

I grew up with Ruby. She lived around the corner from me. We were not in the same ward, since my house was the boundary line for my ward, but we were in the same stake. We went to girls camps, and other stake activities together. We played together as little girls, slept over at each other's homes, went to each other's birthday parties, walked to school together... I am 2 years older than her, and she was 6 when her family moved in. I've been paying attention to the things going on with her for the last several years. And I'm horrified at where this has gone. I was disgusted at some of the things that went on with 8 Passengers, but I never would have thought that things would have gotten this extreme. I'm just sick over it.

Also, can we acknowledge the children had to save themselves while everyone watched their abuse taking place online consistently?!! I’d never heard of this family until a few days ago. To hear so many people reporting that they have been watching this family in the abuse for years. It’s so disturbing.

Can we all take a moment to think how brave little Russell was to seek help ? He saved all his siblings. ❤ I am praying for all these children. Also just my 2 cents…these family channels need to stop.

Omg you just explained something to me. My Mormon aunt was visiting and I made an offhanded joke about never checking my teenage sons browser history, and she FREAKED out. Like she triggered my fight or flight and I ended up cornered by her in my garden shed, and I had to yell at her to get her to shut up and back off. It was scary, and I lost trust in her after that.

My heart goes out for the children. Thank you for having Jordan and McKay because they are great people.

I feel for those kids. When I grew up my parents thought it was proper punishment to “send me to bed without supper”. My stomach would hurt with hunger pains and I would just sit up and wait until enough time passed after everyone went to sleep so I could sneak to the kitchen and get some food. (I also started stashing food in my room). I can’t imagine this going on for days. Poor kids - talk about trauma. 😢

As an aside, I do love how committed John is to plugging supporting guests who are content creators

Love the discussion about "is this a Mormon story, or a story that just happens to have Mormons in it?" I had an idyllic childhood being raised in Mormonism, but i can absolutely see where the doctrine enables people with certain personality types or proclivities. My parents used to say "Even the Devil can quote scripture." and i appreciate that helped me recognize that not all people who seem religious are good. Excellent, fair discussion.

Thanks for bringing Jordan and McKay on, and for such valuable insight into this horrific situation. As always, thought provoking and honest discourse.

I really wish I had watched this live, but this is actually my first time on the channel! I have a friend who went to BYU and she said that having a church recommended counselor/therapist violate HIPPA and tell the church and school about certain things is actually a common occurrence and people just don’t know that they can fight it. She said people get kicked out left and right and that’s part of why the church pushes these counselors so much.

The fact that Jodi’s license was reinstated is disgusting

I’m an LCSW in Idaho and the harm that is sanctioned and hidden and ignored by this religion is wide spread. What you are doing is important.

I'm very concerned about the influence members of the Mormon faith had in the failures of local policing and CPS in regard to this case. It seems as though teachers, family members, neighbors and other members of the public were reporting Ruby for about two years and nothing seems to have been done. Having seen plenty of previous cases in which members of the Mormon faith acted corruptly to return children to the people they were trying to escape, that there was potentially a concerted effort to either cover-up or ignore what was happening in this case.

_I have been thinking for many years that Ruby is a closeted sadist after I watched her interactions with her children. She is full of GLEE when punishing them, and the punishments themselves were always way overboard._ 😑

My sister worked at one of those camps and has since sent her step daughter to one due to what she determined was unhealthy, sexual behavior. My niece was only 15 when she went there and actually ran away twice. It literally broke my heart that I couldn’t step in because I did not find out until after the fact. I still carry a lot of guilt, especially since my niece has essentially cut off the entire family. I literally cannot believe these institutions even exist.

John, I'm one of the 50% never-mo viewers whose been here for years. It is this Griffiths family that caused me to find your podcast. I've watched the Griffiths family of vloggers from the very beginning when Ellie + Jared (the youngest Griffiths sister) first started their channel to document their infertility journey. The rest of the siblings and parents followed E+J vlogging lead when they made their own channels. I think this is why the 8Passengers channel exploded in popularity so quickly because Ruby's sisters already had large and successful RU-vid channels when Ruby started 8 Passengers. Anyway, it is because of this family that I found Mormon Stories Podcast. I became fascinated with learning more about their religion because previously I only knew of Mormonism = polygamy. And I couldn't understand how these people who seemed to have it all going for them could be Mormon. So I started looking into it and found your podcast and never left. These stories are fascinating to me. Now talking about 8Passengers feels like it's coming full-circle for me today. Under very unfortunate circumstances, of course. Thank you so much for covering this story. I wanted to DM you and ask you to speak about the news, so this is exactly what I was hoping for on your platform here.

I’m so glad you collaborated with Jordan and McKay for this story!! I got most of my info about the 8 passengers saga from Jordan and McKay, and the story hit so close to home for me that I followed their a lot of their in-depth coverage.

I love having y'all in the same cast! Thank you for your dedication and support for truth and ethics.

I am ex-mormon, and I'm glad you mentioned that this is not typical mormon parenting. I have no love lost for the church, but some of the kindest and most loving parents I have known are mormon.

This mom Ruby, seems like an abusive, neglectful mom at best and a sociopath at worst!! I can’t IMAGINE having my SIX year old daughter go HUNGRY!!! 😢

This was fabulous. Jordan’s PowerPoint was so good and thorough. She should pursue a PhD.. If she isn’t already.

Thank God my parents were normal, relaxed human beings! I never would have survived with a crazy parent like Ruby. The kids who rebelled the most back in my youth were those whose parents watched their every move and set all kinds of harsh rules and limits.

Hi, I’m new here. Hidden True crime told me about how awesome you guys are. I came for my interest in the Frankie/Hildebrant case, but you taught me the term “ high demand religion” and that sparked so many connections for me. After surviving a childhood in the Evangelical Christian religion, I hadn’t realized how much it had contributed to my CPTSD. Thank you. I’m excited to keep watching.

Is it not borderline abuse for a child to be locked in a room with an adult being questioned about touching themselves? It feels abusive to me. You all have opened my eyes to so much. Thank you for great informative content!

I was not expecting this to be a collab

I brought my therapy dog to see teen young women at the Utah State Hospital in Utah County. One of the girls became very attached and it was arranged that I would bring him to her outpatient therapy. She eventually ended up in that place in Orem and I was supposed to be able to see her…with the permission of her parents who thought my dog and ai were great influences on her. They told me they had arranged it. When I called to go, I was told no. So I asked if I could speak on the phone to her…”no.” I explained that I was on the list and was told that her therapist decided that I couldn’t see her. It was so weird. I was so worried that she’d think I abandoned her.

Thank you SO MUCH for having Jordan & McKay on! I feel like they are one of the few people that are covering this case with knowing so much backstory on the situation. It’s such a complicated story so it’s easy to get confused. I give grace to those who have gotten things wrong but it’s so easy for things to spiral into things that aren’t even happening.

It was a very informative broadcast. It helped me understand why Kevin may not have custody of the kids. Now, all the children need a safe custodial home, and the supports needed.

What is baffling about this situation is that they had so many followers subscribed to this garbage and exploitation for YEARS! I couldn't watch this for one episode! Her treatment of her kids is deplorable and people gave her money to watch it i cant believe that it wouldnt be considered verbal and emotional abuse by authoritiesw😮 just withholding food and speaking about it should have had this channel shut down. Why did so many followers condone her parenting practices??? Thank you for bringing awareness to this.

I was brought to your channel by the algorithm. I want to thank you for clear unbiased content about these very worrying and sad events concerning Ruby Fanke and Jodi Hildebrante. Knowing the in depth research and time that went in to your content thank you. As a non Mormon, your content opened my knowledge about not just those involved but the Mormon Church and the purity teaching. It was a great incite. Also I hope people realise that all religions have good and bad. Thank you

Jordan and McKay are just phenomenal. I found them first, then found Mormon Stories, and love you all for your knowledge, your empathy, and compassion.

You both did an amazing job on this video! Thank you so much for all your hard work and outstanding content.

In this ongoing horror scene, I’m thankful we’re at least being treated a J&M/MSP colab.

The neighbor who alerted the police is the real hero in this sick situation.

Her small children were so “numb” probably from dealing with years and years of abuse that nothing phased them anymore.

their videos are bringing up memories for me. i feel so terrible for all of the children. i cannot imagine the struggles they will have for the rest of their lives. what egregious parenting and therapy. it's a travesty that not everyone will be held accountable - like the bishops/mormon employees who recommended jodi's practice. my heart goes out to all of the victims.

I am an atheist but my sister is a Mormon. Mormon Stories Podcast has been very helpful.

It’s always a treat to see you all collaborating, I wish it was under better circumstances!

I went through the exact same "sex therapy" group that is being discussed around ~1:42:00. It's called "LifeStar" and there are programs like this all over the state. Truly a horrific experience with the group shaming and punishment. I was in the program from ages 16-18.

Takeaway: this shouldn't have taken a child ESCAPING to get the attention of Mormon authorities!!

Just happened to see this video because of the Hildebrant/Franke news, and as an ex-Mormon was curious to listen in. Can't hear the whole episode for well over 3 hours (!), but I appreciate the honest information Jordan McKay are sharing. I'll have to reopen it over the next few days. Thanks, John!

I knew about this family here and there because of other channels' coverage of them and was always somewhat interested as someone who was raised in a strict, violent, angry, traditional Christian household. As someone who grew up with very strict, disciplinarian parents who were like Ruby lite, I can understand the feeling the children and family may have felt that they were unheard - on the channel Markie, he has a video from a few months ago where the sisters and Shari seemed to insinuate that there was things happening behind the scenes, if she was isolating them more and more, and taught them to sweep the problems under the rug (I was taught this as a child to not "air out our family's dirty laundry" - which to my parents could be very innocuous things - or I'd be punished for it) the extended family may not have known how bad things may have gotten. I feel so much for those children and hope they are surrounded by support so they can heal

I’m not associated with the LDS church but, I wanted to get my head around this case and found you through Hidden True Crime and Jessi Hildebrandt’s interview. Y’all have done a stellar job in this collaboration. I definitely got clarity about all of the players, as well as, perhaps the nuances of their relationships and beliefs that just aren’t available through most other major outlets. Thank you for delivering so much information in a clear and thoughtful manner. I’m subscribing to both channels to show my support.

“Virtue signaling” aka demonstrating bigotry in the case of that fast food chain. In my observation of the prevalent culture in Utah there’s is such a push to perfectionism that “fake perfect” seems better than authentic. In relation to troubled teens, one LDS neighbor sent their daughter to a Christian camp for troubled teens in Jamaica where she was forced to wear dresses that resembled FLDS garb. I was horrified. How do you protect your 13 year old child when they’re in another country?

I'm not going to watch this video because child abuse is too triggering for me. That being said, I'm glad this is being covered and wish the best for these kids.

I know this is the introduction. But the bravery of that young boy…so amazing! My heart breaks for him! If I could hold him and make it better I would. I looked at my son and held him after this story broke. I couldn’t ever imagine doing this! So I just wanted to take 2 seconds and give the credit to this boy who is his own hero and the hero to his sister!!! ❤❤❤

This whole thing made me so incredibly angry,shocked and sad. These kids went through so much abuse. Your perspectives needed to be told. Thank you. One of the best podcasts.

This is awesome. You guys are amazing. Thank you for bringing this to the forefront. Subscribed! ❤

When I lived in Houston in the 80’s my church encouraged us to attend a meeting where a special speaker was coming. He had left the Mormon faith. He was to speak on the Mormon beliefs. As the speaker was starting the vestibule doors opened and 6 men stood at the back of the church. They men were dressed in white shirts and tied. Immediately the speaker was shuffled off the side door and the meeting was dismissed. Frightening.

I only had to watch several episodes of 8Pass to recognize these children were being abused, on several levels. I watched only after Jodi and Ruby were arrested. THE question I had, was, how could there be over 2 million viewers for years and there weren’t huge outcries from the public about the treatment of these children? It’s mind blowing that no one stepped in to stop this abuse. Just heartbreaking….

this is the best video ive seen on this topic. thank you everybody for your effort.

Ruby reminds me of Lori Daybell

I hope this message gets out to all those poor people that need it. It's outrageous behaviour to punish people for their sexual desire - which is merely a human trait.

It is a relief to hear that the safe incident was actually another call. Until you stop and realize that means that, at the same moment in the same jurisdiction another child was trapped in a safe room. That kids’ parents aren’t internet famous so we won’t know the backstory or the outcome, but it’s a reminder that these high profile stories are unfortunately snapshots of what’s unfortunately happening in who knows what number of not famous households.

Thank you all for bringing this to light so sad and thanks for your honesty and sharing, I’m at a loss for words for all these children have been through, I hope they will continue to be safe now.

Jordan and McKay are fantastic! I've been hoping they would be collaborating with you on this.

I'm glad they got arrested before someone died. Thank goodness for the neighbor who did NOT mind their own business!!

Thank you for this thoughtful review of this case. When I was in the 6th grade I had a friend whose mother abused her little sister 4 years old (long story) one day my friend asked me to stop being so nice to her sister; because when I leave “she” her mother gives it to her worse. Very sad. This was the late 70’s. Her mother did finally get hers but it was many years later.

I’m so glad McKay said what I have been wanting to scream from the rooftops: that the focus has been mainly on Ruby (the blonde beauty social media phenom), allowing Jodi to avoid the spotlight and scrutiny that she and her philosophy needs. You all are doing a great job!

Another Lori Vallow was stopped in time. Hallelujah

You three work great together, great exhange. Hope you continue these kinds of conversations and lives also in the future!

I found Mormon Stories through Jordan and McKay and last summer I watched so much of your content. I haven't been watching much lately, but I have kept up with Jordan and McKay. It's nice to have them bring me back here again.

Collaboration between MS and Jordan & Mckay was very valuable in explaiing this tragic story. Thank you.

John you are such a good dude. This situation is horrific. It’s like the Duggers meets the Turpins (that disgusting couple that tied up their kids, abused and starved them). I’m sure I’ll find out but where are the two older kids and can they help the younger siblings?! Jordan and McKay know their stuff, was nice to discover them.

Why is Ruby considered an parenting expert ? She constantly sharing that her children are “troubled” and need punishment. The only people I would consider as parenting experts would be those with healthy happy adults because they are clearly doing something right.

Devastating!! Great work on seeing the signs and spreading the message!! Love your stuff!!🙏🏻🤟🏼🙏🏻

Another terrific episode. John together with Jordan & McKay - what a winning team! Thanks for all your documentation J&M. ❤❤❤

Thank you for doing this interview. This interview has been very informative. I think a lot of people watched their channel because they developed a parasocial relationship with the family. It's really unhealthy for strangers to know such intimate details about the kids. I hope that all the kids can now recover from the lack of privacy.

My kids in highschool forget their lunch, if I couldn’t make it, I would have food delivered, or borrow a lunch ticket and send $ the next day, what she’s doing is as a parent she isn’t taking responsibility because she forgot to make sure the child had her lunch when they left, because that’s her responsibility as a parent especially to monitor the younger kids she is making the child suffer for her lack of being a good parent is so wrong

The Adam Paul Steed interview was amazing! 6 hours of jaw dropping interview

I moved out of Utah a few years ago (only non-Mormon in my neighborhood) and I can't tell you how glad I am to be out of that area. It was bizarre at times -- including a group of women who all were hanging out at one family's beach house in CA and decided to all greet their husbands (together) wearing their underwear -- and asking each husband which one was the sexiest....WEIRD. I can tell you all sorts of things about MLM CEOs in my neighborhood and the most fascinating thing .... ALL they cared about was how much money everyone was making