Wow, when Kayla says “I didn’t know I could say no” that was me for so many years. All you learn as a Mormon girl is to dress modestly and protect your virtue. No one tells you that your body is yours and that you can say no
@@donnaboyle7513 Socrates: what is piety? Euthyphro: Piety is what is loved by the gods. Socrates: Is piety what is loved by the gods or do the gods love piety because of what it is… The same applies to virtue
no stones cast at Kelly. her growth is so obvious and heartwarming. She’s been able to go past her religion and see and love her children. The fact that she’s listened to her kids concerns and taken them to heart and grown from that is something i wish more parents did that
omg Kelly - I am 70. My daughter is a therapist and I have never understood why women cut - until your courageous, sensitive, clear relating of it on this interview. Thank you for your sharing and for your courage. Your transformation is so inspiring - I am sure to so many but certainly for me! God Bless the rest of your journey!
Like self harm? That’s understandable most people don’t understand it, its a very much a sensitive topic and an addiction. Think of it like a drug addict.. i have struggled with it and its a chemical addiction
Wonderful story. And it totally hit home for me when you said that you feel your relationship with your dad would be better if it wasn't for the church..I feel the exact same thing with my mom. I feel the church has affected my relationship with my mother.
Thank you for sharing. I’m not a Mormon, I learned a small portion about Mormonism and “knew” it all was preposterous but I’ve never witnessed to any LDS in love. I feel very sad about that
Thank you Kayla for sharing your story! While I'm not Mormon, and not a person of faith, I find MSP fascinating, and this episode was the most educational and inspiring to watch. To spend 2-4 hours watching any episode on RU-vid seems mind-boggling to me. However, after watching you and your step-mother, Kelly, I really felt the impact you both could have on so many people who are struggling. More than anything, I hope your stories will help others find peace and happiness in their lives.
Kelly’s raw honesty, and vulnerability about how she thought as a Mormon is refreshing to hear. I have cringe stories too, about how I thought as a Mormon. Recognizing how damaging those thoughts were, and then releasing them, is a major step in growth. Thank you Kelly for your honesty. I recognized myself in a lot of your story.
Only an hour and 7 minutes in and I relate so much with Kelly. She and I have almost the exact same experience in almost every way. It’s heart breaking but it’s also comforting to know that I am not alone.
Jbmarie, isn't it crazy how we think we are so alone? So alone and conditioned to think something is terribly wrong with us when in reality that is not true! Thank you for listening and commenting.
@@kellymikesell9323 Listening to your journey and the growth you’ve been able to achieve gives me so much hope for a community and culture we all desperately need here in Utah. It’s so refreshing seeing someone so open to expressing mistakes and mending relationships. I can’t imagine what this has been like for you to share this story and go back to church on Sunday. SO SO MANY people will be curious about your story and learn so much about compassion and real love regardless of the church they choose to warship. Thank you both for your courage!!
Getting ready to watch...when I was 14 and just a convert to the Church...I was told I was to have a interview with the Bishop. He asked me questions that made me leave the interview in tears. They were about sex and I was floored. Never have forgotten this moment in time in my life. From that point on my feelings towards the Church were never the same. I have left for good. Thank you John for bringing us the Truth and so many amazing stories...❤🙏
One of the most powerful stories and journeys. The vulnerability and rawness was brave. I wish my in-laws would watch this entire podcast. Thanks John for keeping it up.
im going to cry, her story is so close to mine, i didnt realize how traumatic these experiences were until i listened to her talk about it. Ive been out for 8 years but i am still wrestling with my lds trauma.
The mother daughter relationship is so interesting! Kayla is so mature, so supportive, what an amazing person! Poor Kelly is just overflowing with thoughts - like a firehose of emotion and information. There is almost a bit of regulation on the part of Kayla, really interesting.
Trauma - and realising that you perpetrated that same trauma without knowing it - often looks like this when it's super fresh. Kelly's come a long way, from the looks of it. There's still a way to go, and eventually she'll mellow a bit once she starts forgiving herself (especially for the things that were forced on her - religious trauma is super weird).
Have you heard of HSP’s (Highly Sensitive Persons). They compose about 10% of the population and they feel things (both highs and lower) more strongly than the average person. It’s due to amygdala’s reaction level - this has been measured. Mix that in with some anxiety and I have a feeling this is the result. (From the perspective of an HSP with anxiety 😅).
Thank you Kelly and Kayla for sharing your story. I could write a book about my experiences as an active Mormon, a single mother raising 3 boys in the Church. I had my name removed from Church records. Once I read the CES letters and watched many podcasts the deceit and lies especially from Prophets and leaders of the Church was too much. I will never belong to an organised religion ever again. I am closer to the Lord now, much more so than I ever was. Much love to you Kelly and your lovely family. You are a beautiful, articulate, intelligent woman. I am astounded that you have spent your life doubting yourself. God bless from Cheryle Qld Australia. U.N. mmm
I knew I was lesbian by 10 years old in the LDS church and I used to cry every night and I was so homophobic because I hated myself, leaving the church and was one of the best things and I’m at my happiest since leaving
The growth and love between these two women is wonderful and this episode was beautiful to listen to. Thanks for your time Kayla, Kelly, John, and Carah!
I was raised LDS and never had these issues growing up. My father always encouraged me to have any career I wanted. I was always taught about polygamy, and have always understood the teachings and that we currently don't live polygamy. The Church of Jesus Christ is not like what these ladies are expressing, these are examples of how they were raised but not how the church teaches. The parents took the doctrine and taught what they wanted in the name of religion.
@@tammynelson8377 I converted without knowing the foundations of this “church” and I would have NEVER joined if I had known of what actually went on with JS and his polygamy and polyandry. NEVER . So I felt lied to. Withholding is still lying.it’s deceptive and unbecoming of any person or organization. My husband grew up in this cult and when he finally found this stuff out he left. Not lending our good name and talent to this crap. Life is too short .
As a nevermo I find the division between good and bad emotions so fascinating. The biggest change I had from evolving from panic attacks and mind shattering grief was embracing and feeling those emotions instead of wishing them away. This is such a guilt causing circle.
This has been one of my favorite episodes so far. I absolutely love Kelly! And Kayla. I think it’s powerful to see someone who was this “Molly” discovering the church. I really wish that every active member would listen to this episode. Thank you Kelly and Kayla and John for this.
This has been my favorite episode. Watching Kelly connect all the pieces is so interesting. I hope these ladies find all the love and happiness and fulfillment outside of the church.
I watch more and more of these stories, and it still hits me just as hard, every time, hearing what these people have had to go through, and the shame they have held for years and years. Thank you for sharing these experiences.
One of my most favorite episodes!!! Kelly and Kayla - you are articulate, intelligent, raw and inspiring. Thank you for sharing your story. It takes so much courage to do that!!!
Never mo here! I was almost baptized but I backed out. I backed out because I have gay family members. Family comes first! Kelly, you are not alone!!!! The first step towards healing is forgiving yourself. Your brother and Kayla love you. Y’all can get past this!
Woah! What an excellent interview. I’m blown away. Thank you Kelly & Kayla, thanks so much for being so honest & vulnerable. You’re both amazing. And proof that people can be reasoned out of unreasonable ideas & beliefs.
The church for all its community and talk of bringing people together is incredibly isolating. If you have doubts or issues you feel like you are the only one because your not allowed to talk to anyone about your doubts or the things you find or believe and you are always told that you are the problem. It’s so toxic.
Interested to see if Kelly will face repercussions at the church for doing this since she still intends to be an active member. Takes guts! You ladies are badass 😎
This is the second or third time that I've watched this interview and my jaw dropped when Kelly said she didn't think she was an articulate person. I thought she articulated her stories and feelings *so well*. Both her and Kayla. This was a very moving story, thank you for sharing it with us.
I had the same experience with reading about polygamy in Mormon Doctrine! My mom showed me at about age 16, hoping it would help me feel better about polygamy, but it had the opposite affect. I was horrified, and it impacted me greatly.
This happened to me in my baptist church with Job's story. While the pastor was saying we all should be more like him, I was utterly horrified and traumatized by it
I am getting near the end of the podcast, and can I just say how amazing it is that Kelly and Kayla have been able to rebuild their relationship to be so solid now. It shows amazing growth and character. ♥️
When I was an active member, I had a major emergency at home. As a single mom, with Temple recommend, I was ignored by my bishop and he was basically MIA. I had to turn to non-Mormon friends for help. I was devastated and from that day forward I could not stand to go back there; I felt so betrayed, with all my tithing and callings, etc. My children had already become disaffected so I was the last one to see the light. So I relate.
Listening to this, I just randomly asked my daughter if she ever wonders she might be bi-sexual or bi-queer. Loved her reaction, no shock or surprise, just a straight answer. (Eeek! pun), followed by a couple of sentences and we moved on to other stuff. So proud of my kids.
Thank you so much Kelly and Kayla for being so open and honest about things. Kelly, your openness about recognizing the ways you were wrong and embracing a new approach to life is so inspiring! Kayla, I'm so glad that you were able to get through all that shaming and horrible experience and finding confidence and a safe space!
I'm in Vegas, named Kelly, and turning 43 this year too! LOL Went to school for social justice/activism - turning the "anger" into passion projects. If I'd chosen to have kids, one of them was going to be named Kayla! How synchronistic
Love you guys!! Once you throw off the yoke of guilt and shame the church puts on your life will become so rich and full. Keep learning because knowledge is freedom.
I grew up in the church. I was sealed in the temple , did all the things, in 2010 I got a divorce and I haven’t been back to church since. Not because I don’t still believe but I’m just in the middle of a faith crises . All the videos that I watch on Mormon stories everyone says the same thing and that thing is , when I left the church I stopped being so judge mental. and I have to say it’s done the exact same thing for me, I am no longer a judge mental person and it’s freeing
It takes so much strength to leave something you’ve known your whole life and find the truth for yourself. I’m not LDS but grew up with a very strict, if you aren’t with us you’re against us type church leadership. It was so hard to separate men in the religion I was raised in with God. I had to come to a point of realization that people in the church were always going to disappoint me and focus on my personal relationship with my Heavenly Father. I haven’t been to church consistently in several years and it’s helped me learn to trust myself so much more
I love these women! This was so relatable and inspiring! Thank you Kelly and Kayla for sharing your story. It's a lot more universal than you probably know.
2:59:43. Exactly my parents. We (the kids) came 2nd to everything church related. My mom was a stay at home mom but did very little with us.. she was always obsessed/wrapped up in church calling. Same with dad.
"Question.....sticky note!" 😂 I love it and I loved this interview. Really appreciate both women's journeys and admire Kayla so much for what she went through.
Kelly will probably never read this but I want her to know that you are never too old to learn and you can't apologise for not knowing things that you have never been taught. The fact that you stepped outside your comfort zone and managed to grow a better relationship with your kids and your brother. Give your brother time. John, you are an amazing vehicle for people to tell their stories. I love long from content because you can really get to the nitty gritty of their issues. I am not a Mormon, never have been but am a life long learner and make it my business to find out as much as I can about anything and everything. This is one of my new favourite YT channels. Kayla, good on you for supporting the LGBT+ community in Utah. Take care all of you. xxx
So so proud of Kelly for educating herself and realizing everything so that she can make her life and her kids lives better. People can change for good!
Also Kelly, No judgement whatsoever! We all have our fair share of things we wish we could take back. When I had just got home from my mission, I was hanging out with a few of my best friends. I just finished saying that homosexuality was a temptation that people decided to give into or not. Right after that comment my friend came out to me. I have thought about that moment so many times wishing I could take it back. (I have since apologized profusely! ) Unfortunately, Mormonism too often makes good kind people do bad things. You are amazing and courageous just to openly admit those things. I have nothing but respect for you.
Such a wonderful interview! Huge kudos to both of these beautiful women for their honesty, sincerity, and vulnerability in discussing such personal and impactful experiences. I’m the same age as Kelly and related to SO much of her story!
I am a never Mormon, who has inexplicably become obsessed with Mormon Stories Podcast. I have watched many in the last few weeks. They have all been wonderful, interesting stories. This is the most powerful Mormon Stories Podcast I have heard. Incredibly powerful!
This chap spinny thing and then they don't talk about what sex life she should have our wedding this exes and they figure it out on your own that's not good at all so then you're not prepared at all and yes I've Heard lots of stories about women just hating it because they don't know what to do and it does ruin relationships that really does get married get Mary to get married and you don't take the time to really get to know somebody go together for a couple years find out who they are and how they act before you commit good grief
I have no religious background but this podcast is amazing. I also wish it was possible for Kelly to see how people like me see her, beautiful and intelligent.
I had a great grandmother who gave her husband 12 children and then he asked her if he could take another one and so this little tiny tiny woman put her hands on her hips and said it's a good way to spend the rest of your life in prison as they were Prosecuting polygamous it at time because you told wanted statehood at that time she never had another thing to do with him the rest of her entire life Catwoman Creighton honor for doing that she supported herself the rest of her life however by working for the church for the rest of her life kudos to great-grandmother I wouldn't put up with it either no matter what
Appreciate the help o my gosh what a answer to give good grief my dad told me well they had it because there were too many women in the west into few men so they had to do something to take care of these women oh my gosh and yeah at the little kid I kind of believed it
I’m not LDS but I think MS is a superb podcast. While it focuses on the LDS faith and while the particulars may be different it speaks more generally to all patriarchal dominated and high demanding religious organizations. Thank you all for producing such a high quality podcast with such open & honest guests. John is such a caring and respectful interviewer, and I love the addition of Kara; as a woman I love to hear her thoughts and questions and she is such a compliment to you. I hope she continues to stay with the podcast.
LOL! Talking about sacrament at home made me remember about the morality of stopping by 7-11 on the way to church to buy bread when my brother was responsible for bringing it and worrying about it being immoral bc it was shopping on the Sabbath.
Kayla's story of Religious Abuse is heart breaking and the counselor not respecting her clients dignity is an example of I became a Sister of Perpetual Indulgence. Our Ministry is to bring Joy and expiate Sigmatic Guilt.
@@torin93 Awesome! I always see them at some event or another here in town. I have never seen them outside of S.F.. I remember them for sure in the early 1980's and when AIDS was rampant
This whole interview is so interesting, but having a trach/vent/gtube child of my own, Kelly's experience with her son really hits home. I left the church 17 years ago, so I was long healed from that experience by the time my trach baby was born. I cannot imagine dealing with church obligations and the emotional trauma and guilt that come with that on top of being a caregiver for a medically fragile child. I'm so glad she made it through that and is now recovering from Mormonism.
I loved listening to all of your story, but I broke down crying when you mentioned your youngest being afraid to share their beliefs on fear of being kicked out of the church
3:30:50 - Kelly, I felt so similar! Like you I was active not only in my membership but in studying the gospel and the history of the church, but only from the approved sources. The Book of Mormon translation was my first big crack. That caused me to start down the path. For me whether it was a rock in a hat or a breast plate with glasses attached, it made no difference. But the lying was what shook me. My crisis of faith was really started by a crisis of trust. When you are gods mouthpiece, why would you be lying about anything, let alone something that really could have been so inconsequential. That led me to thinking, what else have they kept from us? Fill in the blank with what happened next.
Thank you for sharing. There are so many things I learned about being a woman and girl in the church that I don’t want my future daughters to go through. As a male, I did not go through many of these same things. I’m in a mixed faith marriage as the non-believer and have been fine having my future children go to church. Now, I am a little worried about raising kids in the church and, even if my kids go to church, I at least feel more prepared about what things I want to do differently. Thanks for being so vulnerable about your successes and failures and transformations.
I really felt the love from the exmormon community when I left. Theirs love and acceptance on the other side of the wall when you leave the church, if you have doubt don't be afraid to explore those doubt and openly questioning your faith
Your description of non-consensual sexual activities may be more common than you know. I had this happen with my fiancé in my 30s. The culture of sexual shame bares strange fruits, some of them quite risky. The other Mormon girl in my town, who was an adoptee with a teen biologic mom, and believed abortion was murder, almost had an abortion rather than tell her parents she was pregnant. Wildly tragic how that works out
I really appreciate Kelly’s explanation how she saw God as this vengeful, intolerance, frightening character VS seeing Jesus as her savior. This hits the nail on the head for me, as I’ve always felt this same way. The idea if the Trinity is just overall difficult to reason through, but what made it even more difficult is how different God and Jesus seem to be I’m 47 and I’ve not reconciled this concept either. Thank you Kelly!
As you are one person in mind, body and soul, so is God (mind), Jesus (body), Holy Spirit (soul). God is not bound by the elements of His creation as we are in time. I’m born again Christian for reference of how I’ve been able to produce an answer for you.
@@rebeccacall7348There is no God like in the bible. But life is full of mystery and beauty and our purpose to make it better for others. Love gives purpose.
I am Catholic but got so invested in this and ended up watching the whole Video as Kelly was SO IMPACTFUL and Really Needs to Stay and Be the Voice and offers Her Testimony as I truly Believe that Questioning and Asking for More Information STREGHTENS your Faith and as Kara said a the end it will make you More Christlike. As it also shows how Strong Sean's faith is and probably a stronger Bishop because of his family and how close they are. Just as when I was struggling and my Great-aunt who was a Nun helped me saying to add an O to the word God and think of him as the GOOD and not to get caught up in the Rules or Dogmatic doctrine as that is the very thing that snagged Kelly. Thank You so much for your podcast as it helps the conversation, as I read allot of the comments while listening. ❤to U ALL
Kelly and Kayla, I just cried along with you both. You two finding each other, that’s true love and so beautiful. And it’s so magnificent that you break this cycle of generational indoctrinated patriarchy of a guilt shaming god. If there’s a place online where one can follow your journey please let us know. 🧡💜
I have never heard someone put in to words the way I felt about so many things. You made things make sense. Thank you Kelly for being so vulnerable. ♥ By the way I'm not Mormon, but raised in a Christian home.
Just finished the full podcast. I can relate to both of them so much (through a deconstructing baptist eyes) but still, so many similarities. Looking forward to continuing to watch other podcasts on this channel!
I’m in the middle of watching this, and the Mormon missionary called my phone. I met with them a long time ago and now they have my phone number so they call me every once in a while. I’m not interested, but they’re so nice!. If they knew what I was listening to they would probably be suspicious!
I don’t understand what a Progressive Mormon is. I don’t understand why Kelly wants to continue attending a Church who’s basic doctrines she no longer believes. She expressed her belief in God and love for Christ. There are other Churches that would be more inline with her beliefs. I’m kinda confused, but this was really interesting.
@@mlmj1994 agree! I live in a very dense Mormon community in AZ, and can see that the indoctrination is heavy. Its not easy to breakaway from that. Wishing them both nothing but the best.
@@theresamcgallicher Yea, Kelly said some things which came across as hurtful. I think I sort of remember it now. I like Kelly, although when she said what she said I felt" it was cruel at the time," and it made her out to be spiteful and unpleasant, a B***h. However she did seem to change and become more understanding. Which seemed to be demonstrations of genuine love and unconditional love. That is why I liked her, she owed up to her mistakes which may have been caused by the church, and tried to correct them. DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE AN OPINON ON THAT, WOULD BE INTERESTED IF YOU DO? Thank you for your reply
I'm more shocked about parents leaving their 14yr old daughter alone in a room with a 70+ yr old man when they knew what was going to be discussed..lots of people let this girl down.
I’m ExMo, and when you turn 8 you’re due for a “meeting” with the bishop to discuss baptism. I was an 8 year old girl alone in a room with a 50 year old man with the door shut. Talking about purity and chastity. It was unnerving and very uncomfortable.
@@KitKat-gw4rh how on earth do parents allow this? surely this needs looking into by the law, nobody has the right to ask anyone that let alone an underage kid..these parents make me so mad
If a person hasn't been raised in a high demand religion, this is going to be almost impossible to fully comprehend, but the thing that people need to understand is that members are taught from 18 months old that the bishop of a ward is called to his position from God. It is reenforced over and over and over throughout their lives. This is literally brainwashing. So even though members shouldn't simply trust the bishop with their children, most of us do because if he's God's chosen how could anything happen. Most bishops are completely unqualified to do the job they are being asked to do. Most genuinely try their best, but with almost no training, they are put in a situation where a lot of harm can occur. Decades ago my dad was a bishop. A man came to him to ask for church welfare. Based on the information given my dad felt that the right decision was not to give the man assistance. The man went home and shot himself. My dad did the best he could given the circumstances, but he also wasn't qualified to assess that kind of situation. Bishops are told to pray about the issues that come before them and God will tell them what to do or say. And sometimes things go terribly wrong as a result. The blame should be placed on the church. It is ultimately responsible for the harm that is done. Like John says, it's really a systems problem.
@@MrPhillipjac I definitely agree it's a systems problem. I rarely blame church members for the reason you said, we're brain washed from birth. It's generally not the members I have a problem with, it's the church.
This episode was my shelf breaker about two years ago and I am so grateful for the stories told in this episode. This episode genuinely changed my life ❤
And how bizarre it is that everyone is born an atheist........like you, my upbringing was centred on reality and the real world, and to me religion is a curiosity best viewed and not consumed. I feel for all these people that were indoctrinated through generational upbringing because their parents didn't know better.
1:19:45 as a momma of a child with severe disabilities I totally feel this. I had such a strong connection with people who were disabled growing up and I had 2 ym leaders tell me that I had a calling for helping those with such issues. I was years out of the church when my daughter was born and I had huge feelings that I had brought her disability into existence by showing that "gift" as a young woman. I held guilt until I shared with my husband that feeling and he told me how ridiculous that was
I am heard this story so many times about growing up in the bubble and Chastity Purity excetera excetera and the trauma of that women have in marriage and occasionally a man has in marriage first time especially on and on and what damage it has caused in relationships it makes me so sick that people are so naive because of the church and their teachings
Why did they get programmed about being gay I'll tell you the church reading programs you they had that they were behind it play hit it by going to affirm back he used so they hit it but they asked every member in California to donate money to defeat it
There is no reason they can called merman mothers were gay kids I believe that's it which consists of a bunch of mothers who will not give up their gay kids or their pants into kids or whatever look them up on Google or Facebook because it's truly a good organization
Too bad she could hardly get a word in and was constantly interrupted by her attention seeking step mom. I especially hated her fake crying. Then abruptly laughing and talking at 100 miles an hour. We should all be commending Kayla for having the patience for this on a regular basis.
i relate so much to Kelly about the astronaut story! i remember a lesson in young women’s about professions you can have while also being a mother. i wanted to be a surgeon and was told to think again.
Wow, Kelley. Thank you for your honesty and bravery. I don't know if I have the courage to straight out name my faults and own them. (I would likely couch them.) You're amazing! I am sorry for all the harm you have been through, but excited for what your future gets to be now. :-)
3:42:00 My faith crisis occurred when I was elders quorum president of a singles ward. While I wasn't necessarily disbelieving-just struggling-the church is not a comfortable place for people in an in-between state, because everyone is expected to participate in sacrament-taking, prayers, lessons, etc., and as a leader, you can't operate when you're oscillating in the spectrum of belief/disbelief. In order to avoid the humiliation, harm to privacy, and dishonest-feeling position of counseling others using teachings I wasn't sure I believed, I moved to a different ward. My bishop and stake president were extremely kind, but they probably didn't know how to handle it and didn't release my from my calling until I left. I moved out of my super-low-rent grandmother's house. I don't know how much money I could have saved, and time we could have shared together, because of the wedge the church put between me and my grandmother. She still doesn't know and I wonder if I should never tell her; she's so old that she could easily die within this year.
OmG 52:21 Kelly thank you so much for explaining "cutting" to me my daughter was a cutter for a time 😭 I understood my son's addiction & younger daughters eating disorders but not the cutting. ❤🙏God bless you!
This story about her wanting to be an astronaut is crazy to me because this is one of the first things I remember being completely devastated over when I realized I could not be an astronaut because of my commitments to the Jehovah's Witness cult I was raised in. It totally devastated me. Man it's just weird hearing such a specific part of my own story being shared by someone else yet from another cult.
