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A Game For 2 Players: The Plan? ASOIAF Theory Analysis (Part I) 

Random Internet Guy
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#asoiaf #varys #gameofthrones
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And we are finally back to dive into this topic! Its gonna be a kinda slow awkward build up, because as always I'm just making this up as I go along... and my Illyrio voice is all over the place...
Hopefully this sets the stage though for the rest of the series and we can dive into more soon!

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24 янв 2023

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Комментарии : 98   
@yggdrasil2
@yggdrasil2 10 месяцев назад
"Is it so strange that I should wish to do some good before my days are done?" Yeah, kinda.
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical 10 месяцев назад
For Illyrio its down right against his entire existence 🤣
@CompanyOfTheCat
@CompanyOfTheCat Год назад
Duuude, they definitely didn't expect the eggs to hatch. And then Dany the saboteur hatched all three of them and now they try to make the plot work and is a more watch and do situation 😂
@aripeters2412
@aripeters2412 Год назад
Yeah but then why did Jorah constantly want Danny to go to asshai
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
There's a ton of theories about them planning to hatch the eggs with her and like going to asshai and like Drogo being killed but yeah I'm kinda leaning away from that the more I look at it. Like as contrived as it might be, idk if he had a big "reason" to give them to her?
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
This is one of the ideas that needs so examining for sure, but I wonder if it was more about running away with her? perhaps even knowing she was garrentred to die at the hands of a V+I plot?
@thekrakensdaughter
@thekrakensdaughter Год назад
@@randominternetguyoffical super expensive eggs that can afford an army, he's definitely expecting her to do something with it if he's just giving to her
@aripeters2412
@aripeters2412 Год назад
@@thekrakensdaughter THANK YOU, I mean he mentioned assai 4 times, until the dragons were hatched. I’m not sure if this is just a show thing, but I always found it weird that Jorah didn’t tell Danny about qarth. I mean why did he let Danny send 3 scouts just to confirm with her that qarth is south???
@HillsAliveYT
@HillsAliveYT Год назад
LOL I know it is deadass because I have been binging Dune content for the last three days straight, but the intro just made me realize how similar Varys and Illyrio's plans are to Baron Harkonnen's plans to let his nephew Glossu be a monstrous ruler to Arrakis so that when the heir that he really wants to inherit after him, his nephew Feyd-Rautha, arrives, he'll be seen as a hero and savior. I wonder if GRRM took some inspo from that and if he did, JFC that does not make Varys and Illyrio look good because the Harkonnens and the Baron especially are legitimately comically, unbelievably evil.
@piotrx6833
@piotrx6833 Год назад
Holy shit you right!! Wait, would that make Illyrio a fantasy version of Baron Harkonnen?
@ulisesleon2870
@ulisesleon2870 Год назад
also the baron's plan works for the most part, Except someone else uses his laid out ground, to make Feyd a hero, and turns themselves into a hero ( Kwisatz Haderach , or Muad'Dib)
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
I really need to go force myself to finish reading Dune. I have heard the claim that GRRM is ripping off Dune many times but not having even made it past Paul and his mom meeting the Fremen I have little reference point XD That parallel does seem pretty strong tho, Illyrio reminds me of Baron Harkonnen just from the small bits of him I have read and Varys and Illyrio are fuckin evil as hell when you take more than half a peep at the two of them 0_0
@wolfsbanealphas617
@wolfsbanealphas617 Год назад
They have no problem unleashing city destroying horselords on a country and justify it saying its for the good of the realm ironically the person they are doing it for maybe be killed by a certain dragon queen who also justifies her evil acts in the name of good. George loves his irony
@piotrx6833
@piotrx6833 Год назад
@@wolfsbanealphas617 So dany is Paul of asoiaf? Cool. In the last book she will be a blind hermit perhaps?
@lxfj2128
@lxfj2128 Год назад
They have adapted their plan . They now want both dany and Aegon in a joint rule . Illyrio has access to the red priests and he knows all of them are saying she’s azor ahai come again, that will save the world and bring the dawn, and that all the cites going up against her will be crushed as they see it in their flames. maybe dany wasn’t important at the start but since she’s hatched dragons think Varys and illyrio has included her in the plans. Varys will try his best to persuade Aegon to stay single until dany comes to Westeros
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
So what makes you certain that they won't or aren't already planning to betray Dany? Do you think they actually look at her different with dragons or because the red priests like her or do you think they might take advantage of her status and kill her so as to not have to share power amongst their chosen rulers? I think that there may still be a large betrayal in the future for Dany when it comes to Varys and Illyrio. Maybe even one of the three treasons?
@lxfj2128
@lxfj2128 Год назад
@@randominternetguyoffical think originally she may have not have been crucial to there plans but now she is. Prophecy is on her side she hatched 3 dragons and like illyrio said the girl died and now she’s become a dragon. So now she’s important to there plans. Ideally they want dany to marry Aegon snd together with Varys illyrio influence they rule the 7 kingdoms
@Mj_Jetson
@Mj_Jetson Год назад
With regards to Dany's dragon eggs... they're worth a lot of money and they're a sign of legitimacy that YG desperately needs, so why give them to Dany? Considering how much of a connection there is between targ children and eggs hatching, and pregnant targs and eggs hatching, the plan has got to be to try to get pregnant Dany to hatch them? (presumably, when YG was little they tried to get him to hatch them, but it didn't work?) Even if it was a longshot that the eggs would hatch, so probably not central to the initial plan, that's gotta be what they were hoping for? And I guess they thought Jorah would be able to bring the dragonlings back to Pentos, by promising him Bear Isle and Lynesse or whatever?
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
So I kinda wonder if the eggs were ever intended to hatch they were after all stone by Illyrios words, so like I think its worth considering that they never knew how to hatch them and theyre more of a contrivance than a plot to make dragons
@Mj_Jetson
@Mj_Jetson Год назад
@@randominternetguyoffical a contrivance!?!?!? meh, that sucks. where's the fun in overanalyzing that?!
@fletcherw32
@fletcherw32 5 месяцев назад
The Blackfyre’s had Dragon Eggs too. If they aren’t hatched, they’re just a sign of legitimacy. If Ilyrio has a bill of sale, proving they’re originally Blackfyre eggs. Then they only serve to mark Dany as a false usurper.
@Mj_Jetson
@Mj_Jetson 5 месяцев назад
@@fletcherw32 ​ @fletcherw32 wait - the Blackfyres had dragon eggs? Where does the text say that? I recall some of the drafts, there were Blackfyre eggs, but in the published material, we get: ["It was red, mostly. Does Lord Bloodraven own a dragon's egg as well?" Egg lowered his book. "Why would he? He's baseborn."] (The Mystery Knight). And from Eustace Osgrey the big Blackfyre supporter, on the things that ruined Daemon's chances of taking the throne: "if Quickfinger had not been caught with the stolen dragon's eggs" (The Sworn Sword). Kinda thought they were most likely Elissa Farman's eggs... And if Illyrio was trying to frame Dany as a Blackfyre, why not give her fake eggs, to further discredit her if she starts claiming that they're real? And why give them to her so publicly, otherwise Dany could be like "You think my eggs are Blackfyre-y? They're from Illyrio - he must be a Blackfyre, not me. If you doubt me, ask the Archon of Tyrosh's brother - he was there."
@Mj_Jetson
@Mj_Jetson Год назад
About retconning. Considering that: a) The AGoT Appendix does not mention Blackfyres when it absolutely should (though it does mention that there was a dispute about Daeron II's parentage) b) The Hedge Knight does not mention Blackfyres when it absolutely should (the story is set only a few years after the Blackfyre Rebellions and the wounds of war are still pretty fresh in the later two Dunk&Egg stories) c) "Blackfyre", "Ninepenny", "Maelys", "Daemon" and an Aegon with a lot of bastadrs aren't mentioned until ASoS d) This point is maybe a debatable, but a Dany-Aegon showdown is presumably going to parallel the Dance of the Dragons. The original telling of the Dance as given in the A Game of Thrones Appendix specifies that Rhaenyra was only 1 year older than Aegon, and makes no mention of half-siblings. The original plan for asoiaf involved 5-year gap, so I think the original plan was maybe to have a Myrcella-Tommen civil war, maybe? (i dunno, maybe im crazy with this point, but im rereading F&B atm, and it really feels like GRRM had an original plan for the war that didn't involve Rhaenys, Corlys, Laena, Laenor or the Hightowers, and their inclusion muddles the narrative and stuff like the Stepstones war doesn't make much sense and just seems to be there to pass the time?) Once the 5-year gap was scrapped, the Myrcella-Tommen civil war was cut/diminished because they're both so young, and the parallel was reconfigured to work for Daenerys and Aegon's impending civil war. ...so considering all that, are there going to be retconning issues when trying to analyze Varys? As you said, the most revealing conversation we have about Varys takes place in AGoT... and at that point did GRRM have his plans for Varys fully fleshed out (was his plan from the start to have another targ claimant, with links to a forgotten side branch of the targ family tree, even if he hadn't come up with Blackfyres back then? Or was Varys genuinely a Viserys supporter back then? Or something else?) Were those plans greatly altered (or at least should we assume they could have been altered) after GRRM cut the 5-year gap, or decided to make Blackfyres and Bloodraven exist, or made any other major change from the original plan?
@ulisesleon2870
@ulisesleon2870 Год назад
Him being a viserys supporter makes sense, like he was hired by the mad king to do a job, and through the years he grew loyal to the man who gave him a shot to use his abilities, and that loyalty transftered to his son
@voltairethegoldflame9280
@voltairethegoldflame9280 Год назад
I think he originally planned on the Brightflames being the evil pretender branch of House Targaryen but then settled on the Blackfyres instead.
@ulisesleon2870
@ulisesleon2870 Год назад
@@voltairethegoldflame9280 i doubt it, i think this idea came to him , when he realized dany would need to spend a book and a half longer on essos then he planned for, and needed ways to keep the already nearly over westerosi plot of the war of five kings going, so kill tywin ,and balon,and make cersei acting like a moran, and give northern lords n army mass spawner so their can be a conflict between manderly, and the boltons, and lannister collapse, and stuff
@itkenreiza9841
@itkenreiza9841 Год назад
Finally some good fking food. I've been looking forward to some breakdowns of what could possibly be going on with this plan, as I feel like this is one of the few highly interesting mysteries that have taken a back foot in lieu of some of the more exciting theories. If there really is a conspiracy to put faegon on the throne and that's it, it feels figured out already. Not to mention I am surprised that no-one really believes that faegon could become a problem for the other claimants. I do hope that you go into some more depth into where you think this storyline is going to end up (and maybe give us some theory comparisons to other youtubers like you have in previous videos)
@joecooper7843
@joecooper7843 3 месяца назад
I really love theory videos like this because they answer questions I’ve never even thought to ask, fantastic content
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical 3 месяца назад
Glad you like the vids! I thought it was a fun way of looking at ideas and then covering some of my own =)
@Willz828
@Willz828 Год назад
"ive been looking forward to this" - Dooku
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
Never been so pleased to see a Dooku quote XD
@Willz828
@Willz828 Год назад
@@randominternetguyoffical keep up the good work, you slowly became one of my favorite ice and fire guys! For me, the most interesting aspects that havent been touched on as much are the sparrow movement and illyrio/varys so im excited fo r the series.
@InterestingNerdClub
@InterestingNerdClub Год назад
Perhaps the best thumbnail ever made
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
It took me quite a min to come up with a good one XD
@natie3322
@natie3322 Год назад
… a Completed TV series AND all those books and we STILL don’t know exactly what those two were even trying to do….grrrrrrr.
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
I feel like we have the answers but its still worth the argument XD
@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm
Important thing to keep in mind: All effective strategy/plans seem simplistic when you explain them. Much like in writing, a good plot can be summarized in a sentence.
@zacnvcshjbvdbs9470
@zacnvcshjbvdbs9470 10 месяцев назад
Some of the highest quality content I've seen on RU-vid in a hot minute, we need more creators like you!
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical 10 месяцев назад
Im really glad you enjoyed the video! Hope you like the other series as well. I think we'll be starting a new one soon so ill probably put up a vote poll! 🗳
@rabenmacht3396
@rabenmacht3396 Год назад
So glad to have you back buddy. We've missed you. ❤️
@AncientOrange
@AncientOrange Год назад
I have been reading the beginning of dance recently and paid attention to the few chapters Tyrion has with Illyrio. Illyrio's plan with Young Grif: The potential babyswap of Rhaegar's heir or a Blackfyre with fake identity. Illyrio and Vayrs have all along wanted him to inherit the iron throne. In the first book A Game of Thrones they definitely want Viseyrs to invade Westoros with Khal Drogo's Khalasar. Interestingly, they have no care for Daenerys besides the bargaining chip to win Khal Drogo's loyalty. Young Griff would take command of the Golden Company and kill Dothraki and Robert Baratheon's army alike. In Dance Vayrs in Illyrio still want their original plan with FAegon to go through, but now Daenerys appears as a potential marriage alliance power couple to restart the Targaryen Dynasty (but also covertly wed the Blackfyre offshoot line into the legitimate succession of the Iron Throne. Illyrio and Vayrs now view Daenerys as a Rhaenerya type figure but this time she will be respected as a powerful Dragonrider and be ruthless in her oppression to any Westerosi that refuse to bend the knee.
@chables74
@chables74 Год назад
Definitely looking forward to this series, you’re the best at examining schemes
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
Thank you for the praise! I try to build off of what makes sense from the analysis of the story I've seen then add to it where I can =)
@alecatnight1540
@alecatnight1540 Год назад
Hell yes, been checking for a week for this vid
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
I finally got around to wrapping it up, hopefully I'll be back on a better run putting out videos now too!
@billberndtson
@billberndtson 3 месяца назад
Okay, so I think that was Pavarotti but tenors can sound the same so idk but, nice include. 🙂 May I request getting a Camille Saint Saens' Danse Macabre theme should you make a video about the wights or something? Anything creepy, really. If you don't know the piece I think you'll dig it - especially the abruptness of the strings in the beginning.
@KevinPendragon
@KevinPendragon Год назад
Great video as always. Can't wait for part 2.
@Jakeabe
@Jakeabe Год назад
Let’s go Varys timeeeeee, can’t wait for part 2!
@Henbot
@Henbot 4 месяца назад
They don’t have to be black fire supporters to just pick Young Grif but really interesting video and come here from Michael talks
@yadisdis4207
@yadisdis4207 Год назад
Hey man, you make some great theory videos.
@dennisyoungblood7752
@dennisyoungblood7752 Год назад
Hey Random Internet Guy, who do you think Euron is talking about when he's sending Victarion to get Dany, and he says something like "To make an heir worthy of 'him'"? Who is "Him"? Is it a god? Another person? Himself? Who do you think it is, or do you think there's not enough information on Euron to make a guess?
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
That... is a good question tbh. I think many folks would say the great other but i dont think so. I feel like Euron has more to reveal for sure before we can answer that tho.
@dennisyoungblood7752
@dennisyoungblood7752 Год назад
@@randominternetguyoffical yeah, I don't think it's The Great Other either. But I can't help but think about Aeron's dream. Where he sees Euron more "kraken than man" with the woman, I can't remember how she's described, but I feel like it's creepy
@toothinc
@toothinc Год назад
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, HECK YEAH!
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
Took a min but I'm back on the series train XD
@Jonjzi
@Jonjzi Год назад
It's probably not random that Illyrio was eating an egg while talking to Tyrion. I feel like seemingly frivolous details like that are usually deliberate decisions intended to convey some deeper meaning.
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
That's and interesting thought.. I'm not certain it's a clue or indicator or something but if it was I would say it might be a indicator that he plans to destroy Dany and or Dragons? Maybe? But like it could mean so many things, kinda why I don't think it necessarily means anything in particular.
@Jonjzi
@Jonjzi Год назад
@@randominternetguyoffical you're probably right. I had only just recently heard of the orphic egg, so I think I was primed to read into egg symbolism. However, I will say the death of Dionysus as a baby by the Titans, and his subsequent rebirth, made me think of the idea of Aegon dying as a baby (killed by a sort of Titan) and being reborn as Young Griff.
@jonathonjohnson1227
@jonathonjohnson1227 Год назад
Do you think Baelish knew about Varys’ true loyalties? Nice video per usual most pertinently though.
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
I do not, I think that Varys offered him up enough that he thinks so but he makes it pretty clear to Ned that LF isn't actually in power over him. LF imo has protected his motivations from Varys thus making himself unusable as a piece by Varys but I dont think he knows how to move Varys either. They have some what of a stalemate in that way i believe.
@pharawoahthesecond7551
@pharawoahthesecond7551 Год назад
Please include the second player. Doran Martell..
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
Ah, but does Varys know Martell is in the server... or does he think its a private game? 0_0
@pharawoahthesecond7551
@pharawoahthesecond7551 Год назад
@@randominternetguyoffical he does say himself it's a game of two players maybe they don't know dorans the one scheming.....
@pharawoahthesecond7551
@pharawoahthesecond7551 Год назад
I mean every other lord is dumb to varys scheming aside aside from maybe little finger but I doubt they would ever consider little finger an equal player.
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
@@pharawoahthesecond7551 I think the may have over looked Doran and thats gonna be a whole thing potentially?
@pharawoahthesecond7551
@pharawoahthesecond7551 Год назад
@@randominternetguyoffical hmm yea but then who could they be referring to since two players can't mean them both as they are on the same page The only other faction can be high towers aside from doran. But would be funny to think if they consider the elephant faction or the iron bank the second faction. Iron bank can explain why illyrio wants to be a master of coin. Maybe an alternative
@ToucanBinks
@ToucanBinks Год назад
Got you with the like and comment
@dennisyoungblood1068
@dennisyoungblood1068 10 месяцев назад
I think I just had an epiphany relistening to this video. Varys is a former Waterdancer. How else could he be so light on his feet, nobody hears his footsteps, even if he's wearing heavy boots, unless he wants them to. Being a Mummer couldn't teach him that. Am I wrong? Is Varys way more dangerous than we even thought he was?
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical 10 месяцев назад
I think he coulda picked it up from Ilyrio for sure... I bet youre right tho that he is more dangerous than he lets on
@dennisyoungblood1068
@dennisyoungblood1068 10 месяцев назад
​@@randominternetguyofficaloh my Old Gods!!! What if he is a rogue Faceless Man? He was sold from the mummers troop when he was what, 10? How much of costumes and disguise could he really have learned from the mummers in such a short time? And it explains how he walks so lightly too. Eureka!!! I solved it Only kidding, but like, just a little bit kidding
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical 10 месяцев назад
@@dennisyoungblood1068 Its tin for sure, but... you could freebase a theory off it XD
@dennisyoungblood1068
@dennisyoungblood1068 10 месяцев назад
@@randominternetguyoffical is it as tin as Preston Jacob's? That's all I really want to know
@awter.they-it
@awter.they-it Год назад
0:57 may I ask what's the name of the oprea song that plays at this part? I've been looking all over for it, but just can't seem to find it
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
Its the Pagliacci solo from the clown opera... not mega familiar with opera tbh but its an amazing classic solo piece. Always loved it. Just kinda fit here imo
@eric2500
@eric2500 Год назад
These two are the most important characters with never a point of view chapter!
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
A Varys or Illyrio pov would slap, I really hope we get one..
@Mj_Jetson
@Mj_Jetson Год назад
so there's a connection between Illyrio and Salladhor Saan; Illyrio appears to be bankrolling Salla, or at least giving him his ships? So what do Salladhor Saan's actions say about Illyrio's plan? I guess you could read his support for Stannis (especially since Stannis doesn't pay him, yet he stays loyal for quite a long time), is because Illyrio paid him to support Stannis? Like, support the weakest of the Baratheon kings to make the war far messier, with a less clear victor? I can see why Illyrio would send Groleo to Qarth rather than Salla; Salla would probably break faith with Illyrio and use Dany and her dragons for his own end. Why not use Salla to help Aegon? Either transport him east to Dany when no other ships would, or help him to Westeros (the Volantenes whose fleet they did use totally sucked at their job)? Is the issue here just a breakdown/delay in communication between the Golden Company, Illyrio and Salla? When Salla does desert Stannis, would he be doing do on Illyrio's orders? What use does he have to the Aegon cause now, since they've already crossed to Westeros?
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
Explain the salla illyrio connection because I've never heard of it myself. Is there like text evidence or is it assumed?
@Mj_Jetson
@Mj_Jetson Год назад
@@randominternetguyoffical davos ii asos. it sounds like the ship belongs to illyrio, or at least some of the goods on it: "You shall be needing compresses as well, I am thinking. Sitting on a spear all this long time, oh my. How are you finding that excellent chair? He has fat cheeks, does he not?" "Who?" asked Davos, between sips of hot wine. "Illyrio Mopatis. A whale with whiskers, I am telling you truly. These chairs were built to his measure, though he is seldom bestirring himself from Pentos to sit in them. A fat man always sits comfortably, I am thinking, for he takes his pillow with him wherever he goes."
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
@Mj Jetson They stole a ship from Illyrio as I recall(?), so If anything I think that alligns him against Illyrio which would more or less make sense. Like as a pirate they probably know of one another. I don't think salla is in his employ tho 🤔
@Mj_Jetson
@Mj_Jetson Год назад
@@randominternetguyoffical Salla says he stole the ship, but there's this weird line: "he bill of lading is saying forty-three jars. Where have the others gotten to, I am wondering? These Pentoshi, do they think I am not counting?" (davos ii asos) ...so maybe its more of a bribe, to let other ships pass and he negotiated how many goods he'd get,? The way grrm chose to namedrop Illyrio makes me think the connection is a little more than that? Salla knowing that Illyrio is fat makes me think they've met? idk, its a data point. we get so few data points for illyrio's plans... this is maybe something?
@iainhansen1047
@iainhansen1047 Год назад
I’m trying to sleep why would you do this too me
@capcap2563
@capcap2563 Год назад
or they knew about the WW so they try to get the Tar on the iron throne ?
@Mj_Jetson
@Mj_Jetson Год назад
I know you plan to answer this eventually given the title of the video, but game for two players: whose the other player? Illyrio? LF? Ned Stark? The Lannisters? Renly, Stannis, Lysa, Loras, Viserys/Daenerys/Drogo, Bloodraven?
@randominternetguyoffical
@randominternetguyoffical Год назад
I think he may be referring to just himself and Illyrio there, but im open to hearing other options I suppose
@Mj_Jetson
@Mj_Jetson Год назад
@@randominternetguyoffical so then he's saying "the game is now so complicated that the two of us can't manage all the threads by ourselves"? So... wouldn't that mean they'd bring in a third member for the conspiracy?
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