Riverlands of the Finger: ASOIAF Theory Analysis 

I agree I think he could easily over look LF's potential danger to him or the realm and see him as the pipeline to what he needs. Or he could straight up be LF's man, like sold his soul to the highest bidder to keep his fix status. I thinks its defiantly a tell that we learn that Gregor is in constant need of cash...

Interesting thought.

i think The Mountain is stupid.

it really would add up quite well, like the Ser Kevan passage is a barrier to be sure, but if Preston is right and the raids are no work of Tywin I think LF is one of the few folks who could really fill that void in the story as we see it. And it just slips into the whole war building that he's doing too well. The Littlefingering were not directly seeing is heavily implied all over the story. Like I keep going back to that "when you know what they want you can move them" line, because we keep finding out what moves people who are Littlefinger adjacent like Ser Gregor. Feel like there's something to it all. What's wild is I thought this whole "what is that Finger Boi up to??" thing was gonna be a 2 part series initially... XD

Glad to know I'm high up on the list! Especially considering how many great ice and fire creators there are out there 0_0

Are Preston and Glidus 1 and 2?! Cause same

@@Loki5001 obviously Preston nr.1 and glinbust nr.2

@@randominternetguyoffical you're my number 2!

It kind of gives those antler men some relevance and conclusion where there wasn't any for them before. Like it's definitely tinfoil but I still think it's cool 😎

@@randominternetguyoffical at this point, those are the theories I find myself the most interested in. An R+L=J level theroy isn't going to spring up until TWOW in my opinion.

I think its certainly a strong possibility cuz we see LF playing his game in every other aspect of the war. One way or another I think he's mixed up in the raids even if he's just helping prompt them along. Really glad you enjoyed the video!

I feel like its fun to do something with those antlermen too. I was always like, whats the deal with these dudes??

That DukeNuke pfp, always takes me back... good time playin the OG duke nuke and the weird 3d on on ps1 lol Its a lot of rambles so could just be the incoherent nature of my vids XD

@@randominternetguyoffical im glad i could provide some nostalgia for you man. I came to remind you of childhood memories and chew bubblegum... Also, who's this finger kid everyone is talking about? He seems a little hmmmmm to me.

This is my new hope for the video 😂

It honestly took me a while to find any conflicting evidence one way or another, I was like "fuck, does anyone actually talk about these raids in the Lannister POVs??" But when I found that passage I was like, okay... now there's reason to doubt... And I kinda worked from there, cuz my original thought was that Preston was 100% correct about there being something off and just pegging it as the Darry conspiracy rather than LF, but once I saw that passage I was like, I need to take this into account.

@@randominternetguyoffical his conclusions about the testimony are also shaky. Presumably people could hear The Mountain from the walls of the holdfast, in the same way Yorin could hear Lorch. The Mountain would be using his loud battlefield voice which would have echoed off the walls

@@MiraArrr That is a great point and a super direct parallel! Thanks for bringing that up!

@@randominternetguyoffical I’m hoping to do my own series of video essays responding to Preston and Alt Shift X very soon. I will absolutely give you a shoutout and would love to chat at some point if you have the time. One of the big ones I want to tackle is the story of Bael the Bard and how it parallels the Oedipus myth (with Aemon being Tiresias, telling Sam about the sphinx and prophecy)

@@MiraArrr Absolutely! You can get at me on discord here RandomInternetGuy#4571 or you can email me though the link in the about section (I believe) Would be very cool to talk about Bael and whatever else you wanna kick around.

I agree, the wording could potentially be seen as lacking but its a far cry from the idea that it was all staged. I lean on believing the peasents on this one.

@@randominternetguyoffical yeah. I think George wants to convey the situation as confused and crazy because he likes to convey violence that way, not necessarily because it's all an act... On that note, "The big one said there was river fruit upriver, and they made for the Mummer's Ford." Could have been referring to a command the Mountain (loudly) gave to his troops that someone heard from the parapets.

Thank you I've been thinking that for years and years

@@jessesturgeon5327 Happy to help!

Preston makes the point that Ned was crippled and Tywin should have known. Either from a bird telling of the hunt and general affairs or from Jamie himself (I believe) In any case he likely should have known, making Harwin's story implausible. I think its a fair assessment, I'm surprised Tywin wouldn't have been told by Jamie that Eddard wouldn't have been riding out.

The main reason I see Gregor as potentially open for hire is that, apart from the fact that the killing was obviously staged (so like someone ordered it and planned it) Gregor has a desperate need of cash, but he's also obliged to pay dues to his lord. So like he has a cash inflow problem most likely.. yet hes always decked out in very expensive custom gear and he can afford to just kill horses and such. Like the man clearly is ripe for more or less a debt trap due to his cash flow imbalance and need to keep vices on the downlow. Since pretty much only Littlefinger stands to gain from Hugh's death to me its not a big leap to assume he was the one bank rolling it.

I could see him killing Ser Hugh for Littlefinger. Tywin wouldn't care what goes on at a tourney when it doesn't impact his house, but sacking the Riverlands for cash would be a step too far for Tywin and the Mountain wouldn't risk it.@@randominternetguyoffical

It could easily be a legit Tywin tactic, like it has a very destabilizing effect on Tully organization in the feild but I do like the idea Preston puts forth of it being something more 🤔

I do still like the idea that something else might have been going on. But I agree that the most likely option given what we see in the book. Especially that part with a highlight from the conversation with kevan, Is that it was part of tywins plan. If nothing else it seems to have had the effect on riverland military forces that it was intended to like it caused the lords to scatter and not gather up a unified army, and then according to kevan, they were difficult piecemeal because of that decision. Doesn't really bring the antlerman to any satisfactory conclusion. Which is kind of still not that great. I always wondered what those guys were up to like. Why they were aint lanister and pro stanis and such..

I do know the Darrys are Targ lovers and Blackfyre haters, The second half of the Jacobs theory actually talks about all that with Green Beard and some other fun stuff and I do think theres some meat there, cuz the Tryroshi sell swords act all wack and run off from the Lannisters.

I personally think the twins story is a made up farce by LF, so yes I do think you're onto something with that. This was actually something i was going to try to bring up just hadn't figured out where yet! I think it plays in heavily to showing just how much manipulation LF was doing to start that whole 5 kings war...

@@randominternetguyoffical yeah it definitely shows he was playing the long con and planned it out a lot. Shows how the chaos thing is a bit of a lie

I certainly agree the chaos thing is a mask, and like its a good ploy to be sure, tis really pulled the wool over most eyes, but like there really is no way he could thrive on something that inherently would wreck all his plans lol He's a schemer and a chess master, Bunish all the way...

Glad you're enjoying the ride! Little behind the scenes info, I was doing what I thought was gonna be part 5.. but it might turn into 2 separate parts 😂 Hes just got a lot goin on

Thank you!

Sorta commenting on one, or like at least playing off one lol Hes who got me into watching asoiaf theory back in the day

@@randominternetguyoffical same bro i watch all his vids. Boutta watch all yours now

@jessecook4466 lemme know your thoughts on the theories and such!

He quaffs the milk of the poppy like other me quaff ale.. 0_0

That was before Qyburn did...whatever he did to Gregor!@@randominternetguyoffical

I'd say its possible, but highly unlikely. Not only is it a really big deal to do this kinda lying, the war comes to the Riverlands and the ford so like it has really big implications and impacts on the mummers. I'm not sure they'd agree to such a conspiracy. I also generally remain unconvinced by the idea that the Darry's want a war and are planning one right at the same time that Littlefinger wants a war and is planning one.... let alone that both factions are planning to start this war with the Lannisters. Unless the Riverlords work for Littlefinger..? Which I can't really see. Its all a bit to unsupported and conflicting in my opinion.

@@randominternetguyoffical honestly most of the theories around this scene feel a little convoluted, but I'd just thought I'd throw my two cents to them. How much of the Preston's videos on the subject would say are accurate?

@@rabenmacht3396 hmmm, so I really think he's onto something with the idea that Greenbeard is serving the Aegon cause or at least there's a fun idea there because if he's right about that and if he's right about the Brave Companions being in the service of Dorne. Then in Tywins forces we see two smuggled in forces both serving different causes. Maybe they're their to balance each other out? Maybe they don't know the other serves a different master? Maybe i should make a video about this because the more I think on it the more I like the idea XD

@@randominternetguyoffical Damn it George. Why do you have to be such a complicated writer?

@@rabenmacht3396 Lord only knows.. but the man crafts a damn fine book so I'm cool with it lol

That particular yaaass made my day 🤣

Have you seen the Preston series on the facelessmen yet? I have yet to ponder at them much myself (could be a future video) but the best Idea (most fun at least, but also good(ish) evidence) I've heard is that Jaqen was trying to get to the wall to fake joining the watch... cuz hes huntung BLOODRAVEN... If you havent seen it check out Preston's series and tell me your thoughts or if you got holes you can poke in it cuz im real curious about this topic now that you bring it up

@@randominternetguyoffical Will do! I am sure I watched it way back, but I will go over it again this weekend and see what I think.

@@randominternetguyoffical If the Faceless Men were after Bloodraven, that would change the entire story of ice and fire. Either they are allied with the White Walkers in someway or they have been opposing both fire and ice, if we believe they caused the Doom of Valyria. Very interesting.

What do you think about the rest of his theory like with green beards company being part of Vary's Aegon plans? I kind of like the idea of Varys having a company in Tywin's employ just like how Preston speculates the brave companions were actually working for the Dornish even though they were in Tywins employ

@@randominternetguyoffical I definitely don't doubt there is more to Aegon , Varys , and Illyrio . I think even to a point Petyr has been used by Varys too. I've often thought he was gelded for either being a Blaclfyre or Targarayen. So that the kings blood would burn in the fire and be why he could hear a voice from the flames. It would also make sense as why he risked his own safety in helping Viserys,Dany, and Aegon . He definitely seems to have an interest in putting someone of the dragons blood line on the throne .

@@randominternetguyoffical I think preston is much like Melisandre haha . While he definitely sees pieces of truth and larger machinations and schemes . But often misinterpreting them . I enjoy his stuff but RU-vidrs like you or Alt shift X seem to be more reasonable with the conclusions you draw . He sometimes gets guilty of wanting there to be a big conspiracy. If you've not seen Alt Shift X's video on the grand Northern conspiracy you definitely should. I think it is a very good explanation that doesn't have as many illogical jumps as some other northern conspiracy videos .

@@randominternetguyoffical also don't get me wrong haha I Love Preston Jacob's don't want to sound like I'm dissing on him I still watch all his theories lol . But always with a pinch of salt. He has brought alot to light with several of the theories he's had and I think he is overall a good thing for the ASOIAF community. Don't want it to sound like I'm bagging on him or something

Also want to say thank you . I've loved your content and love that you dissect others theories and find the Inconsistencies but also find where they have many strong arguing points . Like an unbiased middle man of some sorts . A voice that is definitely needed in the community also

I mean, it's a very tin theory, but it kind of felt like it could have been that way. The antler man just had like nothing going on? Wouls kind of give something for them to be doing

Did the show have the antlermen?? I completely forget. I recall they did the courtroom scene, but its been a long while lol

​@randominternetguyoffical nah they didn't have the Antler Men!

Tywin definitely had it coming

I would say that he likely (assuming Kevan is speaking of different raids) doing it wholely without Tywins say or knowledge. Again its a bit Tin but it could go as far as LF arming the Mountain and his raiders in gear from the Antlermen and the whole raid being conducted off the books completely even to the Lannisters.

My main problem with this theory is that I don't see why Tywin would keep the Mountain with him if he had started unauthorized raids. I don't know how Gregor could justify his actions to the Lannisters if they were engineered by LF and not ordered directly by Tywin. I would understand that Twyin wouldn't backoff a conflict that he was dragged into by a rogue bannerman, but I don't believe he would keep that rogue bannerman as one of his main field commanders instead of punishing him.

@@jvbrod The way I see it is that if Gregor conducted the raids without tywin knowing then he wouldn't be able to reprimand him for it or anything like that and he would just be responding to what he thinks is unwarranted river lander aggression which it does kind of seem like he is thinking that way in several of his passages which is why it took me a long time to track down that Kevan lannister piece because tywan reacts like the war wasn't started by him. So essentially I think he is entering a war started by what he believes is rogue Riverlander bannerman. (Again all assuming that hes not the one starting the raiding)

@@randominternetguyoffical Well, considering how diplomatic communications are completely shit in Westeros and it seems that no lords take the time to talk to each other directly instead of using slimy sidekicks, it's reasonable to believe that this misunderstanding of who started the conflict was never addressed by the parties.

@@jvbrod I think its certainly worth speculating on, especially considering how active LF is in the rest of the War

I think Darry is more just there as part of like fun world building, I think the info we get on them is supposed to make the universe more like.. idk "lived in" I suppose... Like we get the feeling that house Darry is like a thing, that like has people, that have done stuff.. but I don't think that any of that is relevant to the tale in any way personally. As for Tyrion as I recall actually a bit distant from the fam and only get really wrapped up in things post war, he seems to have been some what excluded from court and plot prior to that. Hence why he know essentially nothing about anything political and get played by pretty much everyone in KL including LF. Since there was no plan with Mercela and we never hear Lysa mention it im guessing he figured Tyrion was lying, never sent a raven to the Vale himself to talk to Lysa about it as a follow up to the fake Raven Tryion was sending and them feigned being hurt and dooped so as to use it as leverage of sorts against Tyrion and to help keep up the act that hes "just here chillin" ... but that's just my read idk could be wrong In the Hugh video I do bring up a few reasons why Hugh is less tractable than Harry (though I think I left out the idea that he might suspect LF in JA's murder... so thats also a reason to kill rather than to talk to Hugh) But mostly LF needs to reduce the number of potential claims on the Vale not increase them, cuz like even if LF flipped Ser Hugh with words, whos to say Bronze Yon wouldnt just flip him back with honor and macho chops lol LF is gonna kill Harry too, or at least try im like 95% certain of that so I think we got a lil preview of how he do with Ser Hugh 😉

@@randominternetguyoffical wait you think lf gonna kill HTH

@@Ule_blood Hell yeah, he at least gonna try.. probably at the tourney. I can't see him actaully doin the plan he told Sansa and marrying him to her out right... theres gonna be some schemin in there and harry just reeks of newly introduced dude who gonna die... big red shirt vibes

@@randominternetguyoffical well I taught this was grrm trying to expand the cast. Since Harry’s character is much more viable for much more plots then sweet Robin Like I’ve seen more theories about sweet Robin dying then Harry. Also Harry had some really big buildup in feast . So it’s interesting you say that as for little finger doesn’t he need Harry in his back pocket to keep power in the vale .

@@Ule_blood I think as long as sweet robin is alive harry is less potent but also Harry isnt really under LFs control, hes under Royces, so I cant see a path to LF controlling the Vale that involves Harry.. That said Idk if LF intends to control the Vale forever. I think he inteneded to Rule beside Lysa for a while but thats out the window. So the moving parts are kinda tricky now. As for expanding the cast I think GRRM is gonna try to trim things, like he said no new POV characters are likely and deaths are incoming for some POVs. No matter what death is comin to folks in the Vale, we got the Mad Mouse, Ser Lynn, Littlefinger and the Lords Dec.. someones gettin kicked off imo, and Harry is high up there in the running