A Smash Brothers Reboot Roster Ramble! 

Neat

Yeah, I agree!

One thing. Melee technically had 26 characters. Remember, sheik and Zelda were a swap character with completely unique movesets that ate up dev time. So who gets the extra spot left over?

@@Somedumbasswithbadideas Dixie

@@TheDukeofDorks wait, Diddy and Dixie are a swap character? I thought they were an ice climbers style duo. Not complaining though

Awesome thumbnail carson👍

Welcome to the team!

I would be fine with putting costumes behind some kind of battlepass, but custom moves that affect gameplay should always be earnable via gameplay. Maybe some kind of earnable in-game currency that lets you keep up with buying new content for the characters one likes, but would require splurging to fully keep up. OR, do something goofy and lock custom moves behind wacky requirements that can be bypassed via transaction. Like, "If an explosive item detonates Team Rocket 1000 times, they will unlock the custom move for their Weezing to use Self Destruct". That feels like a very Nintendo way to do it, you can get this stuff for free or pay for it right now, but the free route is gonna require some goofy shenanigans first.

@The Duke of Dorks yeah thats a Nintendo thing to do, and probably the best thing. Nintendo absolutely hates Micro-Transactions, and will literally only do DLC if the think that the game could have had more, if given more time, which why their always dirt cheap.

Multiversus was a live service game, look at how that turned out.

Live service games are good, as long as the company behind sign a legally binding contract that automatically transfers to anyone who gains the rights to the series in any way for any reason that they will absolutely never at any point in history stop providing the service.

​@@Silverwind87 but hey it's back now (apparently [still little to no buzz about it])

Speaking of the Stuff you just mentioned Could we please just make it to where we only have two Pokemon Characters and only 2 FE characters We really do not need more freaking Pokemon or FE characters in Smash Bros Add in more Donkey Kong characters Add in more Earthbound/Mother characters Add In more Kirby Characters And come back next year

Curious why Shulk might not be the best character, if you're willing to go on that schpeel, how is the defacto face of the franchise whose impact is felt on every game in some way not the correct choice? Also keep in mind that the Rockets could use all the Pokemon they've gathered over the years and generations, same with Red, it's a much better showcase of all the generations, it's just putting the proper characters in the spotlight to use them.

@@TheDukeofDorks I do like the rocket idea a lot, it’s just I feel like there should be a non gen 1 representation. Maybe have Mewtwo as dlc idk but I like your idea a lot. For Shulk it’s so so interesting since he, Rex Pyra and Mythra, and Noah and Mio have almost equal reasons they should be in smash. Shulk -First protagonist of the series -The Monado is the 2nd most important symbol in the series -Is in every game in the series in some way -A form of Klaus who is the most important character in the series -The first Xenoblade character in Smash -Can have a lot of customization with Monado Arts Rex, Pyra, and Mythra -From the most popular game in the series -Pyra and Mythra are the most popular characters in the series -Pyra and Mythra are apart of the Trinity Processor which is the most important symbol in the whole series -Overall Pyra and Mythra represent the whole Xeno metaseries the best (Zohar Symbol, Split Personality) -Rex can have a ton of customization with Blades so he can have Pyra, Mythra, Roc, Catalyst, Wulfric, and so much more Noah and Mio -Newcomers which is probably the biggest factor out of everything here -Have a lot of new moveset material with classes, Interlinking, and Lucky 7 which entails a ton of customization without being as difficult to add as Blades are for Rex -They represent both Xenoblade 1, 2, and 3 really well because of the nature of 3 Overall a lot of these are probably not factors to how most people would pick a character, but to me it’s so difficult to choose which ones would be in smash (because to be frank Xenoblade isn’t getting more then 1 slot at base). I didn’t even mention KOS-MOS, Elma, or Jin and Lora who could all potentially be characters. Overall I can see Shulk in a new game, but he is just as likely as Rex Pyra and Mythra, and Noah and Mio are.

@@TheDukeofDorks I liked your Fire Emblem Idea of combining then into one roster but I feel like you could go one step further, let me explain. In the newest fire emblem game (fire emblem engage) their is a new gimmick of “emblem rings” which bring back old fire emblem characters to fight with you, I feel like it’d be a lot cooler if you play as Alear(the newest protagonist) and each alt is a different emblem ring. There are 12 rings rn and every past fire emblem fighter of smash is also an emblem ring. It’s be like Joker and Arsene but the emblem ring fighter would be a much bigger part. I think it’d be really cool.

Personally Give throw in DedeDe, Magolor, and Dark Matter in the next Smash Bros (The Kirby Series needs more love)' That plus bring back Meta Knight And Add in Prince Fluff From Kirby's Epic Yarn Adeleine And Ribbon From Kirby 64 Bandanna Waddle Dee Knuckle Joe Gooey Marx Daroach Ect............................................................

@@dylansmith5206 absolutely no way we are adding knuckle joe i always hated that guy.

maybe he would be added alongside sonic and potentially tails?

I think Maxwell would be the more customizable one. but he would probably not make it into Smash if Multiversus is still a thing in the future.

Speaking of Dr. Robotnik/Eggman In addition to him Give me these Sonic characters in the next Smash Game Knuckles Tails Amy Rose Metal Sonic Blaze The Cat Silver Ect...........................................................................................................

Speaking of Rayman In addition to him Please also bring back Cloud, Snake. and Kazuya That plus bring in these guys Crash Bandicoot Spyro The Dragon Klonoa Abe From Oddworld Gex The Gecko Jill Or Leon From Resident Evil Lara Croft From Tomb Raider The Pyramid Head From Silent Hill 2 To where we can finally have a proper version of PlayStation All Stars

Speaking of Kirby Please for the love of Heaven give me these Kirby characters- Magolor Bandanna Waddle Dee Prince Fluff From Kirby's Epic Yarn DaRoach Knuckle Joe Adeleine and Ribbon From Kirby 64 Gooey Marx Ect......................................................

I agree, I think Smash 4 was going in the right direction, by only having the specials be customazible, having that much variety and customization would make for a nightmare in balancing, and would be even worse for online and competitive play, since it would take forever for you to get used to the characters variables, it would also take a lot of time and resources too

Speaking of Dark matter Please for the love of Heaven give me these Kirby characters- Magolor Bandanna Waddle Dee Prince Fluff From Kirby's Epic Yarn DaRoach Knuckle Joe Adeleine and Ribbon From Kirby 64 Gooey Marx Ect......................................................

Dracula is already in Smash Bros. I can't believe we have to worry about Mavis from Hotel Transylvania getting into Smash, we're in a horrible timeline.

@@pyrrhickong Dracula from Castlevania

​@@Wolfiyeethegranddukecerberus17 Dracula from Castlevania has lore that makes him directly intersect with the characters from the original novel. Like. What is the risk? "We have a character who debuted in an anime but is known for being from Pokemon, now suddenly we HAVE to allow Goku in?" Who is forcing you to put Goku in the game? The anime God? Mavis from Hotel Transylvania, who is presently more connected to Smash than Goku?

@@Wolfiyeethegranddukecerberus17 Team Rocket from the games. Like... they're literally *in* Yellow and Let's Go. I'd get the worry if they were purely from the anime but... they're not

​@@sirdrake1857That is kinda like saying I want Mickey Mouse from Epic Mickey

Here's a suggestions Please only have Team Rocket and Pikachu be the only Playable Pokemon characters in the next Smash game WE DO NOT NEED ANYMORE WORTHLESS BORING AS KITTEN FECES POKEMON CHARACTERS IN SMASH ADD IN MORE KIRBY CHARACTERS ADD IN MORE DONKEY KONG CHARACTERS ADD IN MORE ZELDA CHARACTERS THAT AREN'T MORE WORTHLESS CLONES OF LINK OR ZELDA OR CAPTAIN FALCON AND COME BACK NEXT YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Speaking of Donkey and Diddy Kong In addition to them Please bring back King K Rool That plus please add in these DK Characters Dixie Kong (Someone make her playable damn it) Cranky Kong Funky Kong The DK 64 Crew (Lanky, Chunky, Tiny) Lord Fredrik From Tropical Freeze Stanley The Bugman Ect...................................................................

You also complain of Fire Emblem's characters twice, yet you still include them? If they're boring, why keep them?

...ya know what, I'm just gonna outright admit it, I forgot the Miis existed, their appearance in Smash has left so little impact on my mind. But you are right, they are a no-brainer inclusion that would help the live service system function tremendously. Probably would scrap Mewtwo for them, I was iffy on bringing him in anyway.

@@TheDukeofDorks I guess you can add the miis and some other character to complete the square. my pick would be either Pit or Little Mac, they're small but nintendo give them a lot of attention, like being easter eggs in the mario movie, and pit being a big deal in smash 4 and subspace emissary. between the two, i guess Pit is the best option for base, he has more options to make a customizable moveset, he has some cool stuff in urprising that could make a fun moveset. meanwhile Little Mac don't have much, and he would need far more work to properly function in this hypothetical smash.

@@banjo9158 Speaking of Pit Please just scrap Dark Pit (No one asked for him) Plus Please someone give me some new Kid Icarus Characters that are not just more Pit clones Give me Hades Medusa Magnus Viridi Phosphora The Eggplant Wizard Ect...............................

I agree, not to mention that Miamoto literally wanted the Pikmin franchise to become as popular as Mario!

Mitamoto don't make smash bros games so who cares what he thinks. Xenoblade more popular anyway.

100% agreed, he's just the easier character to cut. I think Pikmin as a brand is more beloved (Xenoblade is too decentralized due to varying casts), but Pikmin in Smash Brothers has been significantly less well received. It's safer for a reboot roster to cut characters that people weren't as fond of in the last installment, and traditional Smash Olimar is one of the safest characters do that lol. Definitely would come back reworked ASAP though.

Speaking of Costumes Please someone for the life of me Please make it to where we get some unlockable costumes as opposed to costumes being hidden behind a Paywall That plus please make it to where characters that aren't the Mii fighters get alternate outfits Give me Dr. Luigi for Luigi Link having his Ocarina of Time clothes and Cap Ganondorf having his Hyrule Warriors appearance Ect..................................................

I think a reboot without 3rd party characters for the starting roster makes alot more sense.

Speaking of Cloud Please someone give Cloud his Motorcycle in the next game Plus give Cloud some magic attacks Plus please add in some more Final Fantasy Music (Give me Dancing Mad and The Seymour Battle Theme From FFx) Plus bring back Snake and Kazuya Plus please Add in these Guys Crash Bandicoot Spyro The Dragon Rayman Klonoa Gex The Gecko Abe From Oddworld Lara Croft From tomb Raider Jill Or Leon From Resident Evil The Pyramid Head From Resident Evil To where we can finally have a proper version of PlayStation All Stars

Speaking of Diddy and Dixie Kong If they do add Dixie to Smash Please don't make her a clone of a clone of Diddy And please give her a unique moveset Plus bring back King K Rool as a playable fighter That plus Plus please give me these DK characters Cranky Kong Funky Kong The DK 64 Crew (Lanky, Chunky, Tiny) Lord Fredrik From Tropical Freeze Stanley The Bugman Ect...................................................................

>the loss of Captain Falcon Nah, he's there. Bottom right corner, next to Fox and Inkling.

@@DyxoXinoro Ah. Well now I feel stupid... Thanks for the heads-up.

Speaking of Diddy and Dixie If they do add in Dixie in the game Please make it to where Dixie is not a clone of Diddy And has her own unique moveset That plus please bring back King K Rool in the next Smash Plus please give me these DK characters Cranky Kong Funky Kong The DK 64 Crew (Lanky, Chunky, Tiny) Lord Fredrik From Tropical Freeze Stanley The Bugman Ect...................................................................

Speaking of Team Rocket Please just make it to where only them and Pikachu are playable We do not need anymore worthless Pokemon characters in Smash Bros Add in More Kirby Characters Add in More Donkey Kong characters Add in More Zelda characters that aren't more Link. Captain Falcon, Or Zelda clones And come back next year

Speaking of Palutena Please someone give me some new Kid Icarus Characters that are not just more Pit clones Give me Hades Medusa Magnus Viridi Phosphora The Eggplant Wizard Ect...............................

Including Phosphora and the Eggplant Wizard? A man of culture I see. My top pick is Viridi, then Medusa, then Hades, then Eggplant Wizard, then Phosphora, and then Magnus.

Here's another idea NO MORE POKEMON CHARACTES IN SMASH PLEASE (Adding in more Pokemon characters is not going to make me go and buy 10 trillion things of Pokemon merchandise) Throw in More Kirby Characters Throw in More Donkey Kong Characters Throw in more Zelda characters that aren't just more Link, Zelda, or Captain Falcon clones And come back next year

I mean, the Smash iteration of Pit (and by extension Uprising) is definitely Sakurai's invention, but if memory serves me right Kid Icarus was created by someone else.

Speaking Of Ness Please someone give me some new Earthbound/Mother characters in the next Smash game Give me Porky Minch Jeff Andonuts Poo Paula Kumatora (Assuming they bring back Lucas) The Masked Man/Claus Giegue (Giygas) From Mother 1 (Earthbound Beginings) Ect...............................................

I'm rather confused where multiple points of this are coming from. For one, writing off costumes with a limp "there might be other reasons they aren't doing that", strikes me as a bit baffling. "This is the thing that would let this happen, but it doesn't count because reasons!", is not the best way to attempt to make a point, no? But broadening the scope a bit, I get the sense reading this that a bit of tunnel vision is going on as to finding ways for how this wouldn't work, which is causing leaping assumptions to ensure that logic follows through. Assuming Namco must be involved when they don't need to be, assuming Ultimate releasing a character every 2 months is not fast enough when that speed actively kept in gaming news for its entire running (Outright breaking news outlets on several occasions), and using new modes/items/trophies/etc. as a defense for why brand new games are better despite all those aspects clearly suffering due to the serialized format. Trophies were cut. Most mini-games were cut. And the only new mode we got is a glorified set of event matches masquerading as an adventure mode. Smash Wii U was a downgrade from Brawl, Brawl sacrificed half of Melee's options to focus on Subspace, even Melee couldn't bring back Board the Platforms. Because it is not feasible to do so, so if you're saying side modes get shunted to the side and wouldn't be added upon, that's fine by me, I'll take the future where Smash Run starts in the game and stays that way. A serialized format with this series is incapable of keeping up with its scope without sacrificing side content between games. That's not an opinion, that's a fact, Smash could reboot in a serialized format and the same problem would arise as it received new instalments. It's fine to prefer that, but I can't respect the logic of trying to use that as a point against live service when the reverse of what you are saying is true. Also, a lot of what you're saying about Live Service games just... isn't true? For one Nintendo ABSOLUTELY has several. Pokemon Unite flies in the face of everything you're claiming there, and their various mobile game endeavors have made them an absurd amount of money, and have lasted for multiple years and are still going strong. Nintendo isn't averse to live service, they're just slow to follow trends, like they have been for every other online development for decades. I don't know if it will be Smash, but I would bet money on them dipping their toes into taking that format into their console games within the next 5 years, they've already shown they know how to make it work. Even if they didn't, is a character every 2 months too slow? I'd argue no, that's faster than most Mobas, which are the defacto live service success stories. Hell it could be even slower and it would still dominate the news cycle every time a character was revealed. Good or bad, Steve or Byleth, the headlines are ALWAYS everywhere, because that's the effect Smash has. That kind of news dominance is all something needs to be profitable. And that's just if they follow a traditional live service format! My preference would be a live serivce esque model for cosmetic stuff and custom moves, but to have yearly/biyearly expansion pack of major content (Characters/stages/etc, think Mortal Kombat Aftermath). Best of both worlds there, keeps a flow of revenue running while allowing larger updates to be properly developed, delayed if need be to ensure quality and ambition is kept. Which obviously requires a massive development team, but a single wave of Fire Emblem swimwear would easily finance that for 3 waves of content all on its own (Which, again, is why its insane to write costumes off so frivolously!) I apologize if this comes across as talking down, but it's hard not to on an argument that hinges on things that just aren't true. I think there's plenty of roadblocks that would keep something like this from happening, but I don't think any of the reasons you've listed are among them. Couldn't fit this anywhere else so I'll just awkwardly throw it here, it's a bit odd to discredit Ultimate's stages. Most of the DLC stages were indeed mediocre (Though I'll fight for Mementos and KoF Stadium, they're better than 90% of what's in the base game), but when your platform fighter already has over a HUNDRED stages of variously unique degrees, there's no real pressure from a design perspective to make anything more than a new locale to fit the theming of the newest fighter and bring in new music. Not to say that means they absolutely could have made unique stages in that time period, I have no idea, but it's not really a sign of them being incapable of doing better either. There simply wasn't reason to

​@@TheDukeofDorks @TheDukeofDorks My argument against costumes isn't that it wouldn't be a good way to monetize (although if it would be enough to uphold a free-to-play model, who knows). It's that, they've had plenty of chances to, and still haven't. So I'm skeptical that they would in this hypothetical when they aren't bothering now. "Assuming Namco must be involved when they don't need to be" Whose going to make it then? Nintendo doesn't have an internal team that's capable, and they're likely not going to build one (again) just for Smash. That's a huge undertaking compared to outsourcing to a prestigious fighting game studio with all the resources already. It would cost less to outsource too. I mean, it's the whole reason they got Namco involved in the first place. Because they tried setting up a random one-off studio with Brawl, and Sakurai said it was terrible. How do you get around that? They make tons from outsourcing, a paid copy, and paid DLC. It's going to be a hard sell to say "take on the cost of making a completely new studio, for something that requires expertise for a finely tuned game like a fighting game, and offer some or most of it fore free... but maybe paid costumes will recoup that huge loss and make a benefit more than before". It's not as easy of a sell as you think it is. It may not be Destiny (which still has paid expansions), but it ain't some 2D mobile game with easy-to-make alt colours or static character art to overcharge for either. You also need some type of in-game currency to milk people's money that's used on things that are randomized or disposable. Because costumes are finite. So what would that be in a fighting game? Maybe there are answers, but you haven't provided them. Costumes help, but they only go so far. FTP has some type of recurring/gambling aspect that keeps people involved. Twitter isn't real life. New characters may generate buzz initially, but look a few days or a week afterwards. Most people move on quickly. It only trends for a day or so. And for a free-to-play, you need more new content to engage with more frequently. Most other games have weekly events/challenges, or are team-based games (Smash's online infrastructure isn't good enough for that). Smash sort of had events, but "fight, but only using these characters" isn't a big draw. It also isn't progress towards a greater goal (although it didn't need to in its current form, I guess if it was FTP it would be progress on a battle pass to unlock a character or other things). "using new modes/items/trophies/etc. as a defense for why brand new games are better despite all those aspects clearly suffering due to the serialized format" Now you're doing what you're claiming of me. It's not because the serialized format is inherently worse, it's that Smash got too big for its britches. Of course something has to give when you're balancing 70+ characters and remodelling/retexturing 100+ stages. They had a unique opportunity to say "everyone is here" and took it. But eventually the series will reboot, and content creep won't be an issue (for a few games). The difference with rebooting as a complete game (with DLC) versus a free-to-play game is the budget. I mean, just look at Multiversus. I don't recall, but I'm sure even you would complain that a character once in a while isn't enough to sustain interest. Smash has notable characters but average people move on quicker. You're looking at it from within the bubble of the fanbase. Fornite is really the only example that's been a AAA free-to-play success (I guess Genshin Impact, but idk enough about how it works or monetizes), and likely stuck with it (until it got popular) because they really had no other games to make money off of after selling Gears of War (obviously they make money from Unreal Engine, but I'm talking about as a game studio). Nintendo makes tons of multi-million seller hits. Smash Ultimate sold 30 million+ copies at full price. Why would they gamble on trying free-to-play? And I don't see them trying the "paid, but DLC is free" model like some other games, especially with 3rd party licenses. They can demand, and will get money upfront. Any "free" aspect is a potential loss of money. Splatoon probably does it because that's the trend with shooters, there's few stages to start and online MP is a bigger selling feature for that game. You can't even play local 2P with bots. Smash's 1v1 online has problems, nevermind items or 8P. For a company that's adamant about local MP, Splatoon doesn't have it where Smash does. They'll obviously still promote Smash as a game with online, but it's not as important to them as it is with Splatoon. Smash didn't even list specific patch notes until Splatoon already started doing it. Not to mention, those niche or retro (G&W type, not Simon Belmont) characters people so desperately want (take your pic) are only "possible" through a complete game. Because a new game has plenty to sell it on that you can have a few weird choices and it won't be a big deal. They aren't gonna do that with DLC (and haven't) because each one has to make it's money back individually. In the case with a hidden season pass, they have a little more leeway, but if it was purely singular, it's a bigger issue. And you can still buy Ultimate DLC as singular so it's still partially a concern too. There’s a huge difference between a mobile game being a live-service, and a AAA game. That should be obvious. It takes much less time, money, and resources to develop. Even Pokemon Unite is a mobile game. Also, who wants MORE greedy monetization schemes? (of which PU is one, so not an appealing example to follow) That’s how the few FTP games that are successful, are able to be. I’d much rather pay once and get everything than being nickel-and-dimed or told to play 300 matches just to unlock a single fighter because that’s the only way for them to justify giving something out for free. As for stages… there’s more variety in design in the few new Ultimate (base game) stages than across the DLC. That’s why I say that. Also, the idea they can phone it in with a reskin because it “has over a HUNDRED stages” is weak. People are paying for this content (money or in FTP case time). They can do more than the bare minimum, and it’s not like there’s good ideas. To be fair, I will say it’s a little more complicated because you’re working with a 3rd party, but I doubt all of them are sticklers.

@@TheDukeofDorks Also, what is the fundamental difference between doing a free-to-play model as opposed to what they're doing now (complete game with season passes)? You can say "FTP will go on longer" but they could do that under the current model too. There's nothing preventing them. Just do character costumes instead of Miis. And despite that, they stopped anyway. I'm sure some of it is Sakurai/Namco wanting to move on, but their own retail AAA games don't get support/new content past 2 years. (I know Smash was technically 3, but pass 2 was pass 1's content stretched over twice the length) Likely because there's a drop-off at that point where it starts making less money to be worth it. And if it's an internal team (like Splatoon), it's likely more valuable to have the rest of the team help develop a new game, rather than support an existing one until it completely dies off.

Speaking of Namco Please make it to where Klonoa is playable Plus please give me Dig-Dug as a playable fighter in the next Smash game

The idea behind the aerial dash is to include a universal chase option, an omnidirectional burst option that every character has. Think Street Fighter 6's drive rush, but in all directions. Lean more heavily into the "platforming" side by letting characters get around quicker, chase each other down or run away when needed. Probably would need something holding it back to prevent overuse, stale out like dodges or be on a short cooldown, but I think it'd be a neat way to shake things up while functionally being pretty simple.

Speaking K Rool Please for the love of Grace bring K Rool (Plus Diddy) back in the next game That plus please give me these DK characters in the next game Dixie Kong (PLEASE SOMEONE MAKE HER PLAYABLE IN A SMASH GAME DAMN IT) Cranky Kong Funky Kong The DK 64 Crew (Lanky, Tiny, Chunky) Lord Fredrik From Tropical Freeze Stanley The Bugman Ect............................................................

Speaking Of Young/Toon Link Just please scrap those two guys completely (Unless Sakurai gives Young Link his Transformation Mask from Majora's Mask) That plus please add in some New Zelda characters that aren't Link, Captain Falcon, Zelda clones Give me Skull Kid From Majora's Mask Ghirahim From Skyward Sword Vaati Midna And Wolf Link From Twilight Princess Zant Impa From Hyrule Warriors Tetra From Wind Waker (With her not being a clone at all) Ravio From A Link Between Worlds Yuga The Champions From Breath of The Wild (Revali, Daruk, Mipha, Urbosa) That plus please make it to where Zelda and Shiek are switchable characters as opposed to being two separate characters That plus please scrap Ganondorf's moveset and give him some Magic attacks like Dead Man's Volley (Plus just have him use his sword mainly)

Speaking of Dark Matter Please for the love of Heaven give me these Kirby characters- Magolor Bandanna Waddle Dee Prince Fluff From Kirby's Epic Yarn DaRoach Knuckle Joe Adeleine and Ribbon From Kirby 64 Gooey Marx Ect......................................................

Dedede is my undisputed favorite character to play in Smash Brothers, but with DK, Ganondorf and Bowser all filling heavyweight fighters to various degrees, I don't feel he's necessary out the gate. If it makes it better, him along with Peach are the 2 characters that are undisputed "Ok, once DLC hits these two get first priority".

@@TheDukeofDorks. To be honest, that is kind of just a repeat of Smash 4 when they brought back Roy, Lucas, and Mewtwo in the DLC: It's guaranteed to piss people off, especially if it happens again. By the way, I also feel like the whole focus on keeping the base roster the exact same amount as Melee is too limiting given this series now has 80 characters in the roster from all sorts of different franchises, and putting some of those fan favorites into the DLC would arguably be a poor decision, especially since your optimism regarding people's feelings towards those lost characters seems very premature. (If you don't think characters like Bayonetta or Dedede being DLC, or DLC again in Bayonetta's case, would cause a mountain of backlash, that is a very narrow mindset.) Instead, I think the roster size should be closer to somewhere in between Melee and Brawl, specifically 28-32 characters not counting echo fighters; Still not as large as Smash 4 by a long shot, and also keeps some of those fan favorites in there while still allowing plenty of new characters both first party and third party to join the roster. (I also think the whole idea of putting different characters into older character slots is not a good idea since it's basically just echo fighters again; At that point, just do echo fighters again rather than this more convoluted way of doing echo fighters again.) I like this video, and the creativity is there, but some of your decisions don't really make any sense both subjectively and practically.

Dedede’s not really a villain anymore

@@metaknightjudgesyoursins4710 Nah men, he is still a villain, just not a major one.

@@metaknightjudgesyoursins4710 Speaking of DeDeDe In addition to him Bring back Meta-Knight Plus Please give me these Kirby characters in the next Smash game- Magolor Bandanna Waddle Dee Prince Fluff From Kirby's Epic Yarn DaRoach Knuckle Joe Adeleine and Ribbon From Kirby 64 Gooey Marx Ect.....................................................

Oh... shit, that totally sounds like I'm saying I'm done making character concepts, doesn't it? Not the case, in fact I talk about potentially doing Team Rocket later in the video. I'm just done playing the game, don't have much desire to play another that plays the same way, that's an important distinction I DEFINITELY should have made lol

@The Duke of Dorks ok, that's good. Sad to hear you fell out of love with the game. I guess it got boring?

Yeah, just tired of the formula. Talking about it is more fun than playing it at this point for me.

Speaking of DeDeDe and Meta-Knight Please for the love of Heaven give me these Kirby characters- Magolor Bandanna Waddle Dee Prince Fluff From Kirby's Epic Yarn DaRoach Knuckle Joe Adeleine and Ribbon From Kirby 64 Gooey Marx Ect......................................................

It is amusing that the most impossible thing about this concept is not the custom moves, not the risk of cutting all these characters, but the simple fact that there is no way in hell that Nintendo is competent enough with online games to run a live service idea like this.

Speaking of Ness, Paula, Poo, and Jeff Please also give me some more new Earthbound/Mother characters Give me Porky Minch The Masked Man/Claus Kumatora (Assuming Lucas comes back) Giegue/Giygas From Mother 1/Earthbound Beginnings Ect.......................................................

100% agree, but an even easier solution is to just redesign DK in this reboot to be the chilled out, cool and kindhearted personality DK should have. better to fix that issue at the source, bring the characters up to the standard of quality they should've always had. Like, no way in hell is DK here anything other than that. Also agree that it's a problem that Diddy and Dixie are seen in that way, but I also think that the perception that the depth of their personality couldn't be shown in a tag team feeds that false view of the characters. The issue isn't that they haven't been given enough time, its that the time they've been given has been devoted to a skewed representation. People worry about the tag team because they worry it would fall under that same skewed representation, but the problem isn't the tag team, it's initial idea behind Diddy in Smash. Plus, like, far and away the best way to showcase a characters personality is to give them someone to constantly interact with, as that's the easiest way to show personality. If the goal here is to showcase who these characters really are, they should 1000% be a tag team duo, that provides so many more opportunities to show who the characters are.

@@TheDukeofDorks I think the issue is moreso on how it just feels like “Dixie can never be in smash unless she’s tethered to Diddy” when she’s a character that can carry a move-set all on her own rather than just being put together with her boyfriend. I guess a good example of what I mean is how Adeleine and Ribbon have to appear together in the Kirby series when for the most part Adeleine can handle herself just fine, while Ribbon can play the support role or just not be there at all. With the Kongquest Duo it’s moreso the idea that both are capable fighters and can be distinct from one another in terms of moveset.

@@TheDukeofDorks You’ve convinced me , but if they’re together or apart I know I’d still love them just the same. X

I would argue it's outright damaging to a game's design to handicap any vision due to how it would be handled competitively. Especially for something like Smash Brothers where the competitive scene is a minute portion of the actual audience that buys the game, even games that are actively designed for competition suffer from that mindset. For example every Blizzard game since Starcraft 2 has over focused on being as exciting of a spectator sport as they can be and they drive themselves into the dirt every single time by leaving casual players in the dust. Ya never design a game for a fraction of a percentage of your target audience. I don't disagree that it would be a balancing disaster, it ABSOLUTELY would be. I just don't believe it matters. Competitive players can sort their picky preferences on their own, they are not and should never be the audience the franchise is designed for. Not to say they shouldn't be given what they need, stage hazard toggles/training modes/all that jazz, maybe even have effort be put into balancing certain 'presets' of custom moves? "This is the platforming Mario, this is the RPG Mario, let's keep both somewhat balanced and let people go crazy mixing them with other toys if they want", something like that could work. But again, I think it's silly to write off a feature due to an audience that would likely ban any new feature regardless of complexity.

@@TheDukeofDorks I'd like to say screw the competitive people. I don't care that much about balance and I think the competitive community is overall childish and toxic. The community is loud and influential though and it's always helpful for a game to get the publicity esports provide. There's unfortunately a balancing act of making a fun, hype game and getting that publicity by catering to that loud minority without them banning large chunks of the game. I can't imagine Nintendo not trying to walk that tightrope, but I wish they wouldn't because your concept sounds hype. Anime fighters provide amazing fan service by disregarding balance; I'd love Smash to have that development mindset of packing in all the content they can and doing a quick balance check the last week.

I wish they would bring Talking Meowth to Super Smash Brothers. 6

@@mitchellmyerson4304 Regardless Please make it to where only Meowth and Pikachu are playable WE DON'T NEED ANYMORE STUPID STINKING WORTHLESS POKEMON CHARACTERS ADD IN MORE DONKEY KONG CHARACTERS ADD IN MORE KIRBY CHARACTERS ADD IN MORE ZELDA CHARACTERS THAT AREN'T MORE WORTHLESS LINK, OR ZELDA, OR CAPTAIN FALCON CLONES AND COME BACK NEXT YEAR

Oh shoot I forgot to put those in the description! Thank you for the reminder, here's a copy of the links: docs.google.com/document/d/1dQ2j1xPmDIbUjEgyg9ELp_qapdDi0ROISSVE2NAULNY/edit?usp=sharing docs.google.com/document/d/137miSTF_6HpJwgVoHihCoqIWBlmWEXWhQ34TxjMaar4/edit

Speaking of F.E Please do not give me more Fire Emblem (Anime Waifu Dating Simulator Emblem) characters Add in more Donkey Kong characters Add in more Kirby characters Add in more Zelda characters that aren't more Link, Zelda, Or Captain Falcon Clones And come back next year

Also I would like to work on thumbnails.

@@Lukkak09 Working on a 1 year PP thumbnail. Can I send it to Pyrr? and maybe make a drawing for MadArts?

Waluigi and Luigi are nothing a like.

@@INFERNO95 I guess you are right. I thought of a Waluigi moveset that is full on cheating like getting a new stock or breaking apart a stage and making him like Luigi wouldn't really do him justice.

Woah woah woah, I admire the ambition but the idea of a retrospective for PP was brought up as a "I don't know if I could do it myself, but I'd give my blessing to someone else if they wanted to try." And with Carson's help I've balanced out with the amount of thumbnails being created vs. the amount of things I'm able to make, I don't currently need more help. Sorry, should have headed this off earlier, but I only just noticed the comment in the submission document and had to backtrack.

Dark Matter is absolutely correct, that's there for playstyle variety, but you're in a bubble if ya think Tom Nook isn't beloved. Animal Crossing is bigger than Smash itself.

Speaking Of Dark Matter Regardless if he gets added or not Please for the love of Iwata Please give me these Kirby characters in the next Smash game- Magolor Bandanna Waddle Dee Prince Fluff From Kirby's Epic Yarn DaRoach Knuckle Joe Adeleine and Ribbon From Kirby 64 Gooey Marx Ect.....................................................

Sure! That's the beauty of making custom moves, taking a character and going "Ok but what if they started skewing towards a completely different playstyle" is totally justified cause the original moveset is still fully intact. Wouldn't even prevent Jr. from appearing later down the line, plus it could allow for some fantastic interactions between Bowser and his son that ya just wouldn't be able to get from how the roster currently works.

@The Duke of Dorks Niiiice. Do like the idea of Bowser being both a big brute and also like a big man in charge of a huge army or something. And, yeah moments between the two would be appreciated

Assigning all 3 reps under the Gen 1 banner is a bit of an oversimplification, no? All 3 of them are so much bigger than the individual games they appeared in. It's a big reason why I'd want a ton of custom options for Pokemon for Red and Team Rocket (Let Jessie and James customize between all the Pokemon they've gathered over the years), it would make it it much easier to have a wide breadth of generations show up while keeping the obvious characters in the spotlight.

I get that for Team Rocket as they’ve used a wide variety of Pokemon over the years, and Meowth has regional forms that can represent other regions, but it doesn’t work as well for Red and Mewtwo. Red is very associated with the Indigo Plateau, and his ingame team reflects the Pokemon that are obtainable in the original RBY games, the most you would probably get for a Pokemon outside of Gen 1 is Espeon. Meanwhile Mewtwo is obviously going to be a solo Pokemon and the best you could do for repping other regions is its Mega. Pokemon is a large and expansive franchise with over a thousand characters and Pokémon and to relegate most of it to a single generation that a lot of the fanbase agrees has unfairly been overpushed by GameFreak itself, does leave a bad taste in my mouth. Though to be fair these definitely aren’t the worst options for representing Pokemon and the concepts at least look interesting

@@jimmynason6833 That's only if ya religiously stick to Red only having his Indigo team, which I wouldn't, that's a creative liberty I would take in a heartbeat. Dudes one of the best Pokemon trainers in existence, not to mention a repeated player avatar, no way does he just have his Indigo team.

Peach has the least active role out of every Mario universe character here, and the franchise is already taking up a huge chunk of the roster. And while it's amusing to read someone try to plant an argument into my mouth and then try to argue it, if the roster was any smaller I'd probably cut out Zelda as well. Now, give it 5 years or so in a possible future where the Peach spin-off becomes a solid franchise? Then yeah, sure, I'd prioritize her, probably boot Yoshi for her. But until then I wouldn't base roster her, especially when she's such an easy character to make money with via DLC.

@@TheDukeofDorks That was moreso directed at others who would try to justify Peach being absent using Zelda because of both of them being princesses, not directly at you specifically. I apologize if it sounded like that, I've had to deal with insanely stupid arguments people have made trying to make Peach out to be the most unimportant character in the series before. Although, saying that Peach has the *least* active role of every Mario character is a bit odd considering she's one of the main characters in the series, has almost as many mainline and spinoff appearances as Mario himself and the main plot of the Mario series involves saving her. That sounds pretty active if you ask me.

​@@azurewarrior2000it's not an active role, it's barely a role at all, most of the time, Peach is treated as an object, a treasure, a macguffin of sorts. When it's not like that, she's just a reactive character, like in Mario Odyssey, where she only does something after something's been done to her. I think you have a good point, but prioritizing Luigi is still valid

Maybe make some shorts out of them?

Ya know what, with how surprisingly well the video is performing, I might make a Part 2. No promises, but I'd be down to give a rudimentary overview of "Ok, this is what DLC priority would look like" down the line.

Speaking of Captain Falcon Please for the love of Judas Give me some new F-Zero characters in the next Smash game Give me Samurai Goroh Black Shadow Deathborn Mighty Gazelle Bio-Rex Mr. EAD Ect.......................................................................................

Plus these guys Viewtiful Joe Amaterasu From Okami Captain Commando Arthur From Ghost And Goblins Frank West From Dead Rising Plus More Mega Man Characters (Proto Man, Dr. Wiley, Bass, Sigma, Zero, Vile, Ect.................) Plus Jill Valentine and Chris Redfield being playable Plus More Street Fighter Characters (Chun Li, Guile, M. Bison, Zangief, Blanka, Cammy, Balrog, Vega, Sagat, E. Honda, Dhalsim, ect.................) Ect......................................................

Soon as a Pikmin game manages to sell more than ARMS I'll give Olimar the priority, until that day comes he's just not that popular to be necessary. You'd be right about Toon Link if we were following traditional custom move rules, but that's not what I have envisioned here. Calling these character slots is almost a misnomer, it's more "concept slots", taking a base moveset design and pushing it in whatever direction is possible. It's not supposed to be clean, Toon Link and Link would be just as different as you're envisioning, to a point that a traditional game would probably give them different roster slots, but I wouldn't here as I love the mental image between swapping between the two and watching all the items turn into wacky, cartoonified versions of themselves. I do wanna ask, while I'm happy to just agree to disagree on the Diddy Dixie duo, I'm confused as to how making DK the tag team character is better in your eyes. Tethering both of them to an assistant role to DK rather than an equal partnership between the two just strikes me as an outright downgrade of the importance of both of them.

@@TheDukeofDorks Still ARMS isn’t the first non Mario franchise to appear at Super Nintendo World (albeit as small cameos but still). Pikmin is a mainstay Nintendo franchise regardless of sales. Idk I think it still will would look incredibly awkward to see a Lanky version of Toon as a sort of costume for Link, I do like the idea of certain fighters returning as skins, but I still can’t really see it working for that example. As for the DK tag team idea, I think with this whole idea of customization it works a little better, as much as it does relegate Diddy and Dixie to the Role of backpack and makes them non characters, I still think you can show the friendship/protection DK has for his little buddy and his little buddy’s girlfriend in their animations, giving them that family bond that’s important to the DK series, also it makes more sense for idea of customization, with Diddy on his back, DK is much faster and agile then he was before, but at the cost of some of his attack damage, Dixie makes DK a much more arial focused fighter making him floatier and a bit stronger at the cost of making him a bit slower, idk for a smash reboot I think that’s the better choice but that’s just my opinion in a perfect world, they’d all be separate characters but for a hypothetical reboot with a heavily downsized roster, I think this is a good compromise.

@@smashers6971 I don't know why you're assuming it would be a lanky version of Toon Link? It's still Toon Link in all his tiny glory. These aren't echo fighters, they're not bound by similar animation skeletons or whatnot, they're bound by having similar core ideas, an initial base that they heavily draw from to a point that they're integrated together. Again, "concept slots", not character slots. Which, sure, could just allow them to be in separate slots, but putting them together forces interesting scenarios asking how an item that only one Link has used would be handled by another. Yes Adult Link has Remote Bombs and Toon Link regular, but only Adult Link has used a Spinner, so what would that look like when equipped to Toon Link? What wacky hi-jinx would ensue from a toonified version of an already wacky item? I dunno, it's a hypothetical idea that I might be describing poorly. It's not "Here's a character with a handful of alts", it's "Let's devote multiple fighters worth of resources into a single character concept, how far can it be pushed?"

@@TheDukeofDorks yeah I think I get what you’re saying but I think it was just worded badly in the video, I think it just seems a little too complex and just raises the question, why aren’t they a separate slot. I feel like I should say that I’m not saying this video is bad, I just think some things were kept a little too vague for the sake of just getting to the newcomers. But again that’s just my opinion

​@@smashers6971 No I totally agree, I could've easily made this an hour long script explaining everything but then the video wouldn't come out for another 6 months and I want to work on other things. Better to throw it out and correct the handful that misunderstand, takes a lot less time that editing an extra 10 minutes of footage. If it sells it better, it's not separate slots because splicing these into separate slots would look hideous and get in the way of including smaller, 'for fun' custom options. PLUS, if done this way, it makes it much easier to make... for example, a "Goron" moveset down the line, or a Zora one. Setting the precedent of making Zelda character slots a sort of hub for every incarnation of an idea and it becomes far easier to add one-and-done characters that keep playing the same sort of roles from game to game. It's weird, but there's a method to the madness.

Xenoblade is fully a Nintendo series. Monolith Soft had been a Nintendo subsidiary since 2007.

I'd vote Kamek over Poochy. Poochy could be neat but Kamek is criminally underrated, not to mention he FINALLY got some much needed spotlight in the movie, making a new game the perfect time to capitalize on that new notoriety, and he could do a lot of cool, weird things with spellcasting and summoning mobs.

​@@TheDukeofDorks kamek isnt exactly exclusive to yoshis island which is why i didnt think of him. but yes we definitely need more attention for yoshi representation in smash. also its pretty rare to see a youtuber actually reply to my comments so thanks for that i guess

As a baseline, keeping the franchises balanced level I agree, but there's more at play here than that. For one, I think there needs to be at least one franchise that's delved into a little deeper than the others, to allow for deeper pulls for stages, items, assists, etc., and especially with this idea, custom moves. Mario is the perfect choice for that, because a lot of the things that one character could do another could as well. They can all drive a Mario Kart for a super move, all can use Mario Party shenanigans, and can all simultaneously do REALLY deep dives into their own spin offs with Yoshi transformations or the dozens of Bowser boss battles. It is a little lopsided, but I think it's important to have that proof-of-concept running out the gate, to showcase the benefits of custom moves to allow such deep explorations of franchises, and Mario is the no brainier option to do that

It's partially due to thinking Shulk could be more interesting with custom moves. Completely spitballing here, but imagine chain attacks were moved into a super meter, and you could call in the various party members to do random things to help Shulk out. Also customizing arts has more to work with. On top of that, while I would agree that Pikmin is more iconic, and would even go so far as to say it deserves the spotlight more, I think Pikmin in *Smash Brothers* does not share that level of fanfare. Hard to justify bringing back a veteran when many would grown seeing his face on the roster, which nuked down the priority I felt for Olimar, he's an easier to character to initially cut without upsetting as many people. Still would come back to the game relatively quickly, don't get me wrong, everything you say here is 100% true. I just don't think he needs top billing

@@TheDukeofDorks Ah, yeah Shulk definitely has more potential with custom moves, I’m not sure what Olimar could get that shouldn’t just be in his base moveset. Maybe you could choose only 3 types of Pikmin to bring into a battle? I think a brand new, reworked Olimar with a very fun moveset and strong personality could peak an interest in people because of the stark contrast between that and what he was, more so than Shulk who people might not notice as much. But I really think that’s just pure speculation and could go either way. I see where you’re coming from! Personally I just think how iconic Pikmin is makes him more necessary. But maybe that’s just because I freaking love Pikmin and desperately want it to get any love it can get. If Olimar was gonna come back as awfully as he is now I’d rather him never get in, I think that would be far more beneficial to the series.