Update: "Vergence" Points or "Nexus" Points DID exist in Canon... So, I take that BIG L. However, the inclusion that they can be used to "create life," as far as I know right now, is still new. I had heard the stories about Coruscant being built on a Force Nexus before. Tython also has a Force Nexus, but I've never heard of them having the power to "Create Life." I was under the impression they were supposed to be locations on planets where the Force was amplified. I also hadn't heard them be referred to as VERGENCE points. So, maybe it's not the BIG L, but a Little L, nonetheless.
The whole show is mystery boxes. It's trying to play up the miscommunication as nobody is a bad guy, but it's evident the crisis occurred because of how the witches interpreted the Jedis motives. They will still want to play up that Sol leapt to conclusions to keep the 2 sides narrative. Which they already tried to do with the "well some cultures do that"
If I remember right, they were calling to each other on the split bridges. But I don't recall if he heard them doing so. Otherwise, it still makes him look REALLY bad for not just using the force to levitate them instead of holding the falling bridge... like wtf!?!?
@@nealgrimes4382 Soooooooo...... in universe that wouldn't matter to Mae... all she knows is everything went wrong the day the Jedi showed up. The problem is... when she was on the ship with Sol she decides to fix the ship over seeking revenge.
I like how at the end when Trinity says, we will tell the counsel the truth, mae started the fire!.. Lol. They didn't know who started the fire.. Nobody knew except oceja.. And when oceha wakes up she says, what happened??? What happened!?!! She's the only one who actually seen Mae started the fire, so she knows what happened. And sol tells her, Mae started a fire!!!??. Lol
good point... the jedi didn't know Mae started the fire. But Mae did yell " fire. help me!" and so koril starts the aggression. other than that the only indication of Mae starting the fire was osha yelling "what did you do?.. my god this is awful.
Basically, the Jedi who didn't know who started the fire decided to come up with a cover-up story. These aren't Jedi's, but emotionally driven people with zero wisdom and common sense who carry light sabers.
@@normanlee725 100%! Leslye writes the "jedi" as emotional, impulsive, some are liars, etc. And then says "Look how bad the jedi are! This is why they're (all) bad!" Like excuse me ma'am... do you not know the definition of a jedi? 😂 What a giant clusterfk of a show! 🤦♀️
But, but, according to Leslie Headland, one instance of someone messing up can be extrapolated into the entire group being bad! One bad apple ruins the bunch... of THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF JEDI! They are all now terrible because of this one instance that has occurred HAHAHAHAHA! She got that gigantic head and nothing of value inside it, like a suit case with nothing other than a toothpick in the pouch part that you find at a goodwill and the toothpick pokes your finger when you reach into the pouch to feel around and gives you a splinter and then you get and infection and then you need to have your finger amputated. THANKS LESLIE HEADLAND FOR AMPUTATING MY FINGER!
@@RealLifeFakeWizard Same. Its been really bad leading up to this point, but I was laughing in disbelief at the brainless slapdash production and how they have literally done whatever the scene needs to have happen in the moment and damn the "story" or any lore that came before it that set a precedent in favor of moving things forward. This series has shown a complete lack of respect for the source material, the fans and the general audience that watches this demanding they just turn off their brains and accept what is happening without seeing it with a critical eye or questioning anything that is going on lest they be labeled toxic or any number of other pejoratives for having spoken up. This is pathetic and would ended anyone elses career buy Headland keeps failing up. This constant ridiculous shifts that the characters engage in second to second had me vocalizing at my tv as though it might hear me and change something haha. Fuck this show.
@@RealLifeFakeWizard And heres the problem with that, theyve got SOOOO much shit to resolve that theyve laid the groundwork for as theyve dragged their feet on this awful show, that they will certainly have a season 2 unless Bob Ieger gets his head out of his ass. Ya know its just gonna be another nothing burger episode that goes nowhere and ends on one of Headlands stupid ass pseudo cliffhangers.
I'm glad you mentioned the speculation online being better because that is exactly what happened with Wandovision. Each episode I watched the Heavy Spoilers and others only to find that their speculations were far better.
Wandavision was the awakening I had about this Mystery Box Syndrome. All the guesses were better than what we got and that killed the show's watchability forever for me. It will do the exact same for The Acolyte for many.
When May comes to kill Torben, he’s become so immensely powerful that even though she attacks him with all she got, he doesn’t even bother to move a finger to deal with her….but then, she comes back with the poison and he’s “ok…I’m gonna kill myself.” WHAAAAAAAAAT? If he felt immensely guilty for he had done back at the Lesbian Cave, why didn’t he simply let her kill him?
One detail that annoys me here is that this is supposed to be an alien planet, and yet the episode was obviously filmed on location in Scotland or some similar environment, in a managed forest with planted fir trees that are all the same size, where all the fallen timber has been conscientiously removed over the years to prevent fires. There is also short green grass, that has been either mown or eaten by sheep. If the planet is uninhabited, it must surely be covered by an impenetrable jungles, and yet this is clearly an environment shaped by humans for centuries. There's nothing alien about this landscape at all. Whatever the showrunners spent the $180 million on, it certainly wasn't backgrounds!
Love how she said I wanted my padawan to figure out why we are here by himself when the only way was for this is for one of the 3 who knew why to tell him.
I choose to believe this entire eps is the Star Wars version of SVU, in which a cult witch bad touches a padawan as he cry in fear, and the masters rightfully try to arrest the predators and are forced to kill them when they attack.
The entire episode was sooo bad. Sol stabbing her because she turned to dust is wild. Didn’t even try using the force to prevent it. How are these the dumbest/weakest Jedi ever created? The “run” and “fight me” were terrible acting. The writers should be fired and never allowed around Star Wars again. The little girls are terrible actors. It’s all just so bad. So bad
Horney Toad Headed Mama saying "I'll die before they are allowed to take my children" isn't just a challenge to the Jedi - it's a CHALLENGE TO Mama Swirly Brow that goes COMPLETELY UNCHALLENGED. The entire relationship there has been on the rocks as we've witnessed since ALL of their initial conversations when it was showcased as "bad Mama/good Mama" and again - THIS IS WHAT YOU GET when the relationships are f*cked in a household - even one that's atop a stony abandoned mountaintop lesbian space witch coven mining facility fortress that features a a facility-wide electrical system with clearly no circuit breakers. #SadButTrue
...and remember, WE are supposed to remember that the girl that Sol is trying to rescue at Mama Swirly Brow's Smoke Demonfart moment is someone that HE thinks is OSHA, which makes him instantly more prone to attack/defend her - and you can see the Demonfart musk making her disapate too.
A lot of Disney Star Wars have heroic suicides rogue one, last jedi, rise of Palpatine the worst move of the first movie was the last minute suicide of Obi-wan & Disney runs with it
Mae only wanted to burn the book. The rest is all accidental, including unfortunately setting the Master Electrical Control Panel of the stony abandoned mountaintop lesbian space witch coven mining facility fortress.
Torbin's Unaliving Potentialities: 1.) Can't deal with being blinded/partially blinded from the Kalnacca-induced event 2.) Guilt from being given _____________ to become a Jedi Master far too swiftly after returning from his Brendok-shitfest - that Indara fostered to help shut him up. 3.) Something that happened 10 years ago, that we've not yet seen, that happened 6 years after the Brendok-shitfest. Mae was able to use her acquired Force/Thread powers acquired from - Darth Joker/QMan, and so she layers the guilt on hard, and thick and in liquid form. I hate that I'm coming up with things like this but they've all got a true-blue-real-life thread that (as you put it) someone near me/around me has had happen to them that was the cause of them ot being here any more.
4.) Dark-side mind "grape" causes permanent brain damage/trauma, his master did nothing about helping him (as see, or I guess not seen in this show) and he has been in a meditative state to try and self-repair. Mai showing up triggers the ptsd and he falls to the taint of the dark and unalives himself.
Qui- Gon Jinn talks about a “vergence” in the force to the council in Episode 1. Either way the story behind why the Jedi have been there for weeks and haven’t found anything is incredibly idiotic.
I compare to rings of power because they are exactly the same . Predictable mystery boxes , both have no sense of time progression, terrible fight choreography, terrible acting, and both cost alot and you get very little.
Again, side-stepping the Destruction Crew, the reason they've collecting straw/samples of the life that had been created - and metal-detecting might be tethered to them collecting samples across a series of months on the planet. If it was STAR TREK, there'd be a Science Survey Team that would be sent to do this and I'm CERTAIN that some of the people in white outfits we've seen in STAR WARS are far-better "suited" for doing this series of tasks. It's just stupid that they can't simply detect the life forms, and then track them to see where they go and focus their efforts THERE and even ask questions, rather than just "seek out new life and new crops..." :)
Dang. Now I'm gonna miss this horrible show. A. It is so bad it's hilarious B. So many critical YT vids have been brilliant, insightful and entertaining.
So, is it canon now that Shmi got a bad "Midi-chlorian" infection while ovulating and THAT "vergence" created Anakin? Because based on what they were doing, "life" is created through a concentration of the Force (the vergence) which is observed in the world as a high concentration of Midi-chlorians. Are Midi-chlorians the single-celled life forms that evolve into the rest of the life in the universe then?
As much as I wanna' hop on the whole destruction train with the vergence - if they're going to tie the "vergence" on the LOCATION, then there are OTHER VERGENCES - like the Cave on Degoba, etc. That might be the way they can step around it.
The reason why mother aniseya is so strong in the force is because the actress plays a strong female leader. Palpatine and Pleigus used sith sorcery to manipulate life. She just has to get her coven to speak it into life.
Soi's "fake out" with the name is far more destructive than you think. I THINK that, was the writers providing the audience with "now a clear reason why Sol couldn't instantly discern Mae from Osha IN THE FUTURE. YES, yes, I know it's impossible but - it's either something like that or a series blooper that was left in, right? While I'll lay all kinds of other blame on Sol's actor's lack of clearly understanding English - it seems to make the (worst) most sense.
Only when the Jedi are written contrary and antithetical to their established characteristics and ethics can moral ambiguity be introduced. The writers don't appreciate even the most basic concepts surrounding the issues and ideas they are writing about. When a mature person chooses a serious vocational path to follow, as both an occupation and future way of life, they are usually aware and resigned to the fact that they may no longer have a permanent home base per se and can be transferred to various new and/or repeat locations at a moments notice, for an undetermined amount time, because as someone who's life is now about service to others, you understand it's not all about you.
Because they wanted an anti colonialism show and it would raise some dark questions about progressivism as an ideology if they had to self reflect that any time someone said "let's take the children to save them" it was a progressive ideal driving it
But they didn't even do that, for the most part. The Jedi didn't do anything wrong in that situation. Nothing. Anything they did wrong was AFTER that situation, not telling the Jedi Counsel, for reasons that aren't even revealed.
@@Christobanistanreally? The Jedi did EVERYTHING wrong the fact that they were even intruding and breaking into her witches home was wrong If you don't think the Jedi were wrong you have no morals Sol developed an attachment to a gurl he was creepily stalking for no other reason than selfish reasons That's why Indara had to check him like Hold you're crossing the line when he says "i believe she's destined to be my Padawan" He's ordered to stop Torbin by Indara and as soon as he catches up to her he says "we have to get the twins" and they both agree directly disobeying Indara orders Why do the Jedi feel the need to kidnap these two girls they know nothing about The Jedi acting like Colonial missionaries and imposing their "mission" on a culture they know nothing about just like the church did in the 1600s Sol kills a mother with no motive rhyme or reason but we know the reason he wanted any reason to kill her straight selfish and evil Torbin acting completely emotional and taking off to the witches palace for what? Indara using a Jedi Mind Trick to get the witches to comply with testing Indara committed Genocide and then tells the council a literal CHILD did it The only ones who weren't in the wrong by any means are the witches anyone who tries to defend or justify the Jedi actions in this episode has questionable morals and probably does wrong in their personal life You can't justify them even Intruding and breaking and entering why did the Jedi feel the need to protect children that were clearly being well taken care of ? Because their way is the only right way? We see that in religion too often and how bad it ends up I see peope saying because they were forcing a child to do something she doesn't well so do the Jedi and so have every single one of our parents forced us to do things we dont want to do Kelnecca is the only Jedi absolved of any responsibility and the only that did nothing wrong These poor witches were massacred and their children kidnapped by the Jedi and then Sol brainwashed that Little gurl when she wakes up to believe her twin sister is evil just because he's DESPERATE for a Padawan Scary how all these comments are trying to defend the Jedi I would argue the Jedi have been the bad guys in every movie but that's an entirely different convo
@@ashleybanks-wm4cg Granted, the Squid Games dude shouldn't have intruded, but that's literally the only thing he did wrong. Everything else was a response to the Dark Side behavior of the witches. But even that was NOT how Jedi behave. That's the crux of this whole series, besides the horrible writing: that the Jedi characters acted absolutely nothing like Jedi. Everyone's motivations were so nonsensical that the overall point just wasn't real.
Headland has admitted she buffaloed her way into getting this job. She has dirt on somebody to get nearly $200 Million to make this incoherent blatherskite.
The one critique is a jedi totally would have climbed the mountain without a second thought. It is stupid but I've never heard anyone accuse the jedi of only making smart moves. I mean sometimes they're so detached that they just let themselves die, for what I see as either being some giga brain force influenced chess move to allows them to win later (which is stupid) or just giving up letting the next guy try. Unfortunately, I have one scenario that I think would explain the mist bull. Most powerful force users are specialized. Anikin was strong wielding the force, Mace was the best duelist, some can read minds or are especially sensitive to others' emotions like Yoda. What if besides the life making power, her only ability is strictly mental, and they all saw her turn to mist as a mental concealer so they couldn't follow her or the daughter while she tries to help them. But couldn't react in time or just didn't think that the jedi would actually strike first. which he technically did.
I guess I don't disagree. But there are still so many questions that come up. Like: How long did that take? And how did they do it so fast? Wouldn't that have taken hours? This is a door way into a conversation I hadn't intended. In my brain, I just wanted to get through the stupid Mountain-Climbing as fast as possible lol.
Just like Sol has a cooldown timer on his force powers, it seems that in the mind of the writers the World of Star Wars is like an MMO and Aniseya did not skill into the defense tree like a good ol' glass cannon.
"It's a comedy of errors tonight on Star Was when a Jedi scout team bungles an investigation into the Force. You'll be asking who's who in this topsy turvey switcharoo in the stars." 7/8 episodes in and we already have a clip show. I stand by my prediction that this is ALL a dream after the initial meeting with the jedi, it's ALL in their heads, and next ep they wake up the girls are still kids, everyone's alive the girls stay and the jedi negotiating peace with the witches to investigate the Force on the planet. Qimer is just momma teaching her babies to watch out for bad boys. It all coming down to "it was all a dream" is the only way the writers can capstone their contempt for the audience.
This space mining company must be designed by the guy who would later go on to build the Death Star because who knew that setting stone on fire would blow the entire place up. Jokes aside. Torbin wants to go home. The Jedi Council tells them to pack it up and return home immediately. Torbin then jumps on a speeder bike to go get the girls so they can go home. (BTW, thanks to shit writing it's a 5min trip from one side of the galaxy to the other.... Torbin and friends could have gone home for the night and been back in the morning no problem.... so his I wanna go home arc is rather moot.) The ONLY way this makes sense is if there was a reshoot/ADR change. Torbin is reacting to the old script and the Council saying they couldn't leave without the children. They had to leave this crap in to set up the hint that Torbin feels responsible for events leading up to all the Space Witches deaths...... which had he just waited an extra 30min.... Mae would have killed them all anyway with the burning rocks. This story is so poorly written that not only characters have to bend to it's will but time and space as well.
Rokur Gepta from the Lando Calrissian adventures (Expanded Universe) could get into people's minds as well. Also, @17:00-the idea of the "mind rape" is interesting, considering the showrunner was once an assistant to one of the sleaziest people in recent Hollywood history (Weinstein)
I don't think that the twins birth takes anything away from Anakin. The twins were born WITH the force, Anakin was born BY the force. The difference is that the force itself made the decision to create Anakin, the witches USED the force to create the twins. And just in case people get the wrong idea, I absolutely cannot stand The Acolyte. Boring, poor acting, no substance or story, and the ridiculous is off the scales. A lightsaber whip? Get fucking real.
that is semantics, while yes it is 2 different ways to the same end, there were other dark side users actively trying for this outcome and that was why the force did make anakin, but the point is they failed in the end, so again giving an unrivaled power to this random group of thread users the the strongest of the sith could not even hold a candle to
@@user-jr4mw9wi1cthey had to be the most Stunning and Brave! They also had to be the exact point which the Jedi order began its end. Not all factors leading up to RotS... What kind of arrogant narcissist changes the name of the force in Star wars ffs. It's not like they didn't know about the Jedi and the "force" No, THEY knew better. This show is a joke.
@@timbothejedi4146 while I agree the show is, they are not the first group to call the force something else, but yes in this case she knew it was the force they are using she just wanted to be edge ladies
May miss quotes the mother when she says we have to be sacrificed the mother says we must sacrifice not to sacrifice girls go back to the third episode when the mother is explaining the Ascension to the girls it's just a child making a mistake add misquoting
The Jedi is an organization of authority ... and nothing stinks for Hollywood as authority. The way of writing for many series og movies right now seems like the game where you fold a paper and each kid gets to draw something on their folded part, and the next the draws from whatever lines are transfered from the previous fold. Folded surprise and it is funny as kid, men det drawings are usually nonsense and crazy.
This really seems to me that osha and mae being 2 halves of the same being . They are going to do the super saiyan fusion dance and become osha mae and be super powerful leading to a cliffhanger for season 2
NGL, I hear everything you're saying, and I agree, but I subbed and liked when I heard the 3 Houses Gareg Mach in the background. Truly, a man of the utmost culture.
Hint I didn’t shoot you only because my Stirlling smg is broken or my Mauser Broom handle is gone. Look what was done in the day. Plastic model car parts for fighter space ships. Lea waking up in a gown is better than this new crap. And come on Lea asking “ aren’t you short for a storm trooper” wins anything said in this world.
1.) You're right - the show IS shit. Unfortunately, telling an 8-year-old who is only initially being armed with SUPERPOWERS and an impending sense of familial doom will cause DIRE things to happen - like saying the words "I'll KILL YOU." I hate that I'm sending real-world-inspired experiences into this but - a back-to-the-wall spoiled 8-year-old is pretty f*cked up.
These people have proven they're only capable of writing stories from the perspective of a narcissist. They self insert their own beliefs into anything they do. Even if they get the chance to work from a pre-existing beloved story, they cannot help themselves. They seem incapable of putting their personal bias aside so they could try to convey an artistic story that's outside of themselves. They have proven time and time again that they are not capable of doing anything even remotely close to good storytelling.. (which is weird because that should be one of the most important attributes that a director or a developer or an actor has in order to be successful at their job....?) How is there no one that will fire these people who openly hate the fans, who openly don't like the source material and have admitted they haven't looked into the source material. They openly express hate towards the consumers who are the one's who have made their success possible in the first place.. This show comes off so cheap & tacky.. It's not just the terrible writing & terrible acting. It's horrible set design, horrible world building, horrible camera work. It all makes this show feel so small. Like it's filmed in a single green screen room.. Grasping at awful CGI techniques to try and force any bit of a false reality into this mess of a show. It's so far from Legitimate Star wars movies that it feels as if this whole thing is a big parody.. A very expensive parody..
I don't have Disney+ so hearing about this, these reviews, are the only way I'll ever know anything about Acolyte. But I will say I pretty much wrote off Star Wars with the first of the sequel movies. I liked Rey in the first one then realized it was really just New Hope done over. What happened between the end of the third movie and the start of the New Order? No explanation at all! If the people are dumb enough to allow yet another "empire" to develop in less than twenty years then why should I care about their world/universe? About a week after seeing that movie , it all settled, and I gave up on the Star Wars world. I did catch the last two sequels on TNT... made no sense at all. Palpatine was supposed to have died, if he did not then everything in the first three movies was in vain at best, a hoax at worst. Both the final two of the sequels were nonsense to me. I was never a fan at the level I am seeing in these reviews, loved the first three movies, liked the next three, didn't like the last three (spawn of Disney?). Since the TV shows are all Disney+ only I never was exposed to them - seems I may not have missed anything at all, right?
13:08 I’m with you. If a good writer had written the whole,e series from the witches POV with these two mothers as the main characters it could have been great. With rewritten chants of course.
Bro, after all the videos I've seen on this show, it took watching your video to realize this: The Hackolyte should've been in the future, set after The Sequel Trilogy; if this absolutely had to be made - and it did, b/c Lesliar Headlump has dirt on too many people from her days at Miramax, so this had to be made - this happens in the distant future. 86 Ki Adi Mundi; focus on a small pocket of Jedi who hid, somewhere in the galaxy, choosing not to fight, or some bullshit; that small pocket of Jedi emerge to bring balance; this show focuses on their descendants. Now, what's been done is offer Disney-Lucasfilm a vast open space to tell whatever stories needed to go from Rey Palpsmeartine to The Hackolyte; much like how they are exploring "the time before time", rewriting Skywalkers, they would be able to fill in the gaps of their own nonsensical messterpieces, via movies, and such. But, hey! That's just a theory- An extremely expensive creative theory, should anyone at Disney-Lucasfilm be reading this, and then running with it. Also: YO, totally enjoy your enjoy your videos. So happy RU-vid recommended.
Disclosure I can’t stand the acolyte and have not watched the actual episodes since episode 3 but I get my info from wonderful RU-vidrs like this wizard. That said I have read the high republic books and they are actually interesting. That hyperspace disaster line was so disrespectful to the fans of those books. Basically the hyperspace lanes were still being explored and researched and a group of pirates were able to interfere with them. Said pirates found a way to have 2 massive ships collide within hyperspace causing massive chunks of debris to pop out of hyperspace all over the galaxy(the great hyperspace disaster), some of which smashed into planets and cities. The Jedi were the ones to help stop and predict where and when pieces would fly out of hyperspace. The books have zero interactions with sith and mainly show how the Jedi travel the galaxy and helped individual planets with pests such as pirates. Verns master is one of the main Jedi in the books and he’s an absolute G and Vern in the show does his memory so dirty. Not saying read them but they have genuinely good writing that doesn’t interfere with any of the 6 main movies. Much love y’all 🤙🏻
I quit being a star wars fan--well, a "current fan," so to speak; I'll always love the original trilogy, the real star wars. Anyway, I quit being a fan before trying to justify it to myself became *too* embarrassing, which was right after the low-speed Vespa chase in TBoBF. When I saw that stupid mayor's assistant guy in the Dave Filoni star wars version or a 1960s convertible verrryyy slllooooowwwlllyyyy bump into a fruit cart to end the least dynamic chase sequence I'd ever seen in any show, and then get surrounded by the cleanest, most fashionable scooter gang on Tattooine, I said to myself, "nope. That's it. I'm done. I'll always have real star wars, I don't need to watch this shit." I closed the window I was watching without even finishing the episode, and I haven't watched any disney star wars since. But I still love the horrified, incredulous reviews for the new shows, which apparently continue to get worse and worse (save for "Andor), judging by the ever-increasing horror and incredulity of the reviewers.
Why are you emberassed? Cherish the memory of Star Wars, and cotinue to be a fan, and reject the Disney fanfiction which has nothing to do with star wars. Simple as that.
Every time I watch a video about the Acolyte so called "plot" a certain song plays in my head: (Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb) (Dumb dadumb dumb dumb dumb dumb) (Dumb dadumb dumb dumb dumb dumb) (Dahumb dahumb dumb dumb dumb dumb) (Dumb dumb dumb dumb duuumb, duuumb.)
They already killed the ending in a interview cause she said Osha or Mae who ever was good first is gonna turn bad and be the acolyte omg so amazing lmao such a stunner this show fail and I hope they can see that
I took that revelation to also mean the bad twin will be teaming up with Sol (my guess is they'll both become fugitives from the Jedi) so the switch runs parallel for both sisters.
If you die in Kelnacca, you die in the real world. Its like the fucking matrix but the matrix is a wookie and trinity disconnected the witches so they died LOL!
I throughoughtly enjoyed the roasting spawned by the Acolyte and the damage it's done to Disney as a company. In that sense…I guess I do like it after all. Of course, it's likely I can say that only because I've only watched reviews lmao
the jedi were completely justified in their actions, even if the show made them complete imbeciles. Torbin ending himself is even worse than it seems since the show is portraying it being a 'good' thing for him to end himself after he was victimized by the evil space witch, that he was evil for surviving it and not dying before probably the most hysterical thing about sol killing the evil witch is that he is completely justified since it was *exactly* what he thought it was-it was a combined kill/self end attempt, as confirmed by headland herself, and the evil witch just lied to him about being 'willing to let osha go' afterwards to gaslight him. Maybe he should have let her end herself and the evil daughter mae, though really in the end both mae and osha are both evil, so I suppose one of the evil daughters would have survived either way.
