AIKIDO - The way that doesn't work! - Episode #5 

Wow really, thank you. Where is in town for you?

Cincinati

Ohio nice. I'll be teaching a seminar in Pennsylvania in April.

No kidding really, that's awesome

Some techniques doesn't need to work to fill a purpose. If you are studying Aikido, you are studying the philosophical art of combining energy and forces. Some techniques doesn't work in Jutsu. I dont really think that Sensei mean that he should reform the Do into Jutsu. Lenny is studying Aikijutsu more than Do (correct me if I am wrong). Look at this Kata; ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Mcxd0hK_IqQ.html (Koshinki no Kata). Even a judoka (in this kata) has Hakama! Does this wonderful Kata work in Jutsu? NO! . Does this Judoka use the techniques in her competitive game? NO! But it is the base of Budo (the art). Does Judo have JuJutsu? YES! Does Judo work in Jutsu? YES! Does Aikido work in jujutsu? YES!

Incorrect :) Aikijutsu/Aikijujutsu is what aikido was birthed from. It was then polished with philosophy and religious beliefs. Take Sensei learned Traditional Aikido and wanted to make a more practical form to be used in the street. Then TenShin Aikido was born. TenShin has a lot of characteristics of Aikijujutsu, but it is a different breed. I would venture to say that TenShin Aikido is a refined version of Aikijujutsu. I am a shodan in AikiBuJutsu. Perhaps it looks similar because it is all in the same family. :)

I stand corrected. Still, I am one of those who define Do and Jutsu from and past the era of the ban of martial arts and the philosofical ways. All arts of the Bushido devides in jutsu and Do. Every school of Do has its birth from its Jutsu. But today, we can still train Jutsu. This is more an academic discussion best discussed elsewhere. Now, I see the full purpose of Lenny's teachings. Still it is more Jutsu than Do. Its self defense not art of recreation. Still, I cant understand this addiction to brake the flow of momentum!

GREAT COMMENT THANK YOU FOR POSTING!

In my opinion the techniques that aikido has to defend knife attacks will never work. I'd run as fast as I can away from a knife attacker. I'd rather be shot than stabbed.

THE ROGUE WARRIORS - Where Warriors are FORGED Thank! You! sensei Lenny i appreciate your feed back keep up the great work.

THE ROGUE WARRIORS - Where Warriors are FORGED On that point I believe Christian Tissier agrees with you so maybe there is some hope?

I’ve trained with Ikeda Sensei countless of times back when I did the traditional stuff.

@@SLYSCOMBATIVECONCEPTS13 Was at an Ikeda Seminar a couple months ago and he was calling out ukes for just going through the motions, even high ranking senseis. His whole Saturday was spent on lecturing about being an honest uke and giving resistance and not just rolling when nage doesn't have it. He was specifically addressing the instructing senseis in the room to teach more honesty in the techniques and they aren't doing their students any favors allowing them to just go through the motions and do the proper ukemi with improper technique. So, maybe some Shihan are trying to change the traditional ways and get instructors to teach more honest/real-world scenarios.

That’s great. I’ve trained with Ikeda Sensei dozens of times, I am a former student in the ASU organization. I have the ut most respect for ikeda sensei, he’s such a great teacher.

@@SLYSCOMBATIVECONCEPTS13 I remember, many years ago, Ikeda sensei was giving a seminar and stopped Sensei Bruce Klickstein cold, over and over and over again--this very same technique I think. Everyone (it was a big venue) stopped what they were doing and sat to watch. Finally, Ikeda let Klickstein throw him. I never forgot that--that no one is above instruction.

Thanks man I really appreciate it

That's awesome and thank you for commenting. Lenny~

Yes bob, rod, Andy and nick will be there assisting me.

Hi Mike. Just my two cents. I'm not affiliated with rogue warriors but have done aikido for a long time. Something to consider when making aikido "practical"... mainly, you need to learn the technique in its proper form, obviously. If the goal is to make anything practical, as lenny said, you need varying energies and resistance from different ukes throughout ur training to learn practicality (how to make a technique work). Techniques alone are useless. Techniques combined with principles such as entering and kazushi and striking may allow for openings. This is when, and only when, you will ever be able to perform any technique. If I grabbed ur arm and said do any technique, ur not going to get a single one off unless you either set me off-balance or hit me. Never. As per ur comment, yes there are certain things lenny did not do, bc they may or may not be necessary; its situational. And no aikido technique is ever too complicated to do. The point of each technique is not to plan on doing a technique or finding it, it's to set kazushi and recognizing an application for technique when it presents itself. Hence henkawaza. Some things fail, but then u switch to another technique or kazushi until another technique presents itself. I've seen whitebelts do kaitennage in their first few days on accident bc when someone is bent over, arm up, everyone knows to push away. Practice the techniques, then practice different attacking energies to learn "practicality". Remember, there is no "correct" way to do any of these techniques; not kotegaeshi, Sankyo, Nikkyo... just a better ways to perform them which will change with every uke and attack. Dynamics.

I agree with you. But after a while I think I am not buying this "Not working akido stuff". It is obvious to me that authors just ruin the principles of aikido. And when they fail the basics (does not matter for what reasons, f. e. they believe it was caused by brutal violent atack) the technique falls apart. I don't want much to argue. It's fair enough that it is their own channel and they show what they want to, but I feel pity for they (to my mind) are closing some doors for themselves and for the channel followers. I mean there is always a temptation to use force. It is much simpler and promissing safety.

Will do, thank you bro

Maybe they didn't promote you because you countered every waza...ahahahahahahahaha They were probably like, "GREAT, Justin just walked in!"

I thought I would be someone in the art after 17 years. Most aikido practitioners are stylist who are set in their ways and not martial artist who want to know the truth. I learned most of my counters and the concept of counters directly from the Filipinos in the art of Pangamot. However, I still loved Aikido enough to stay in it for 17 years.

why is it essential? What do you mean exactly ''essential''? essential for it to work? You need to understand , at some point Aikido became more like '' What the fuck can we invent as a technique?? And then Of course , with a compliant partner , acting not as an opposing force but almost as an allies here , you can invent what ever you want and thats what happened for some techniques..He got lost in the way of ''' harmonising '' and for some techniques it became more like dancing instead of self-defense..So why is it essential? Essential for what?

Oh I forgot to add that shihans will not comment on your videos. That is not the Japanese thing to do. There are numerous videos with senior shihans saying on an interview about being instructed to never criticize another persons aikido.

He took ukemi a bunch of times in past videos. :)

sure, but not as hard as rod on a regular video basis lol

Sensei rarely take ukemi, so it is an honor to see Lenny Sly do it for our benefit to learn :)

Here goes another oldie, but goodie where he take ukemi for Rod :) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-04grUSS5bXc.html

thats cool, hey lori ill take ukemi for you any day XD

Thank you. Just go to www.roguewarriorstc.com and click on Online dojo.

Wow thanks Lenny for getting back to me so fast. I will check it out soon. Thanks again :) Martin

Sure thing martin, thank you for supporting my work. Have a great week sir.

You too Lenny. :)

I don't think he is doing either. He teaches TenShin Aikido. TenShin Aikido is different from traditional Aikido. TenShin was ''invented'' by Take Sensei. Take Sensei (Steven Seagal) learned AikiKai and converted it to a practical form of Aikido which was dubbed TenShin; after the name of the dojo. TenShin does not project out when throwing, it throws straight down to the ground to control the attacker. TenShin also uses more atemi. TenShin differs from traditional also by being more direct. Instead of tenkan into iriminage, TenShin will use Te Sabaki hand deflections and iriminage straight away. If a TenShin and Tradiitional aikidoka were side by side performing the same waza, The TenShin uke will be on the floor and pinned before the traditional uke even received the throw. Also, TenShin is the only Aikido style that uses Te Sabaki (to the best of my knowledge). So I humbly say that I don't think he is trying to convert to DO or JUTSU. He is merely showing the difference between TenShin and Traditional Aikido. :)

Exactly!

Fine enough. I still thinking it should be more proper to recognize the purpose of the training. Are you training for your health and wellbeing or do you train for self defense, or perhaps active arrest? I Love your show and your sacrifice Lenny, but a school shouldn't quit using old techniques only for the reason they doesn't work. I think you have used ineffective techniques on the streets too. I love your clip about Ukemi, I want to see more of that. Ukemi-waza is my favorite waza. My part of Do vs Jutsu is deeper than Lenny's idea of TenShin, I guess. Sorry for that comment.

Razvan ZamfirThats right.That is why boxing Muay Thai and other kick boxing arts are the only ones that work in striking.It just teaches you how to strike properly and then they just drill you to develop your strength and your reaction time.That is the only way

Hey Darren. Steven Seagal sensei style of aikido is TenShin Aikido. It’s the same style I do. So knowing that I do the same should probably have answered a few of those questions and such. Randori it’s self if you’re good at it DOES play a good part in response to real world situations. Traditional aikido randori is a whole another story. As for what works and what doesn’t in aikido. That would a take awhile to explain it. So the short story is…. It all depends on the person using it. I can’t speak for the aikido world. I can only speak for myself. I know my mind set and my skill set. Most aikido people are scared of their own shadow’s. Also aikido will never look like it does when you’re training it in the dojo. It’s ugly on the street. And if you ever think I’m gonna do this or that or whatever the next time someone fucks with me. LOL you gotta another thing coming. You’ll NEVER pull anything off aikido wise in a fight if you plan it. If you do that or think you’ll do that, then you have no idea about MuShin and haven’t reached that point in your training YET.

Wolfram, After the war, Martial arts were banned and they had to disguise the arts to appear harmless and ineffective.

Lori Powell thanks for the reply. I know the history but i think it is obvious from that martial arts by definition is only concern with idealized forms and not in effectiveness. My father was a repo man and one time he had to reposesed a car of a then girlfriend of one of the largest aikido federation in the place where i used to live. So the boyfriend came to him with his aikido stuff and my father threw a flower pot to his head. My father was a grandson of a police captain and although he never studied martial arts, he could kick someones face while sitting. He respected that i learn aikido but for him self defence is something else. Sometimes mind games and mental terror could also be used for this purpose. Anyway, its interesting to see discourses about martial arts and stuff, but i think as an art it trancends the effectiveness of self defence alone and is closer to methods of self dicipline and improvement, in my view of course. Maybe i should also make video series about this, but i am not sure if anyone would actually watch them.

I would watch it :)

So would i

Aaron wieclawski, It means, stop practicing those techniques that do not work.

K Ismail you have clearly missed my point. The technique does work. Millions of people including o sensei, saito sensei, takeda sensei practiced and developed it over years of study and dissection. Who are we to say it doesn't work just because we can stop it because we change the circumstances? Technically I can stop any punch or kick you throw if I know it's coming and where you intend to strike.. how is this any different?

Aaron wieclawski, Wrong. That technique the above will not work in real time. Period. And who the fuck is these millions? Show me a videos of them doing this in real time. You can probably make it work by modifying it. Best is to discard it.

K Ismail I think if you have those ideas then martial art STUDIES are not for you. The purpose is to develop and question over time. It all works. It wouldn't exist if it didn't. We are meant to explore how, why, where and when it works over our years of training.

Aaron wieclawski, Martial arts is for me and I am one. I am using a real account. You don't. Of course people developed techniques since ancient times but as the world progress and so does the art. Everything needs to evolve and Aikido is no exception. Again, that shit the above does not work, period! Lenny did a hell of a job by exposing it.

gimblegrok .... I’m Nidan in Yoshinkan ... and Kaitenage is NOT in the syllabus. Why? I have no idea. Just some observations: 1. Yoshinkan names it’s techniques in the same manner as Daito Ryu Aikijutsu. I would say that Yoshinkan is Daito Ryu but with a pared down curriculum. 2. Yoshinkan stresses the need to imbalance you opponent at the moment of contact. You must take your opponents Centre. We spend lots of time developing our koshi by way of kamae. 3. Yoshinkan is very, “linear”. Aikikai is far more “circular”. Again because we are to imbalance our opponent at the moment of contact. In this respect all Yoshinkan techniques are “entering”. 4. We still retain strikes. Personally, we should do more striking. I spend more time looking at Daito Ryu than Aikikai for inspiration. That being said ... I love Lenny Sly because Yoshinkan needs an update as well. The curriculum’s primary movement is Shomen/Yokumen Uchi. Katate/Kata need to be emphasized more. Ditto for Ubi dori and quick hands. My hands are quick, but they need to be quicker. Cheers !

Hi John, thanks for that. I think number 3 on the list may be a big part of it. Taking as an example Shomen Uchi Shomen Irimi Nage Ni. I'm thinking about how direct and "linear" even a big turning motion like that is in Yoshinkan compared to its Aikikai equivalent. I imagine if there had been a kaiten nage type technique in the syllabus it would have looked a lot more like the Tenshin version or maybe even the more direct method that Lenny favours.

gimblegrok ... Thanks for replying. Interesting coincidence, we were doing this exact technique last class ( Shomen Uchi Iriminage Ni ). In Taichiai 1. Yoshinkan stresses angles in 45 deg increments. With all techniques. Your tested on it. In this technique we need to hit 180 deg. 2. Uke must be directed downward, cork-screw fashion. 3. Collar grab, plus shift, with an atemi to the face. You’re driving uke into your fist. My problem was driving uke too hard. I lost uke, plus lost posture in executing with strength. 4. Shift back, drive uke down. In jiyuwaza it looks more like Take Sensei’s Iriminage. Likewise, in many cases, at speed, it manifests as either Ikkajo or hijiate Kokyu Nage because uke is coming in hard and heavy with his strike. We are taught to hit hard and heavy ( within reason ) as part of Yoshinkan. I will say that Yoshinkan absolutely adores Take Sensei because we see the directness of his style, especially shihonage and kote gaeshi. Impressive ! You should check out Billy Doak Goshin Jutsu. You’ll see a Perfect blend of Judo and Aikido. Absolutely impressive.

First off move the hell out of Brazil, that is a dangerous place, lol like I need to tell you that huh. You know you live there. The only sure way of remembering is to practice these moves over and over again.

@@SLYSCOMBATIVECONCEPTS13 hahhahahah man I wish I could am stuck here for the next year and a half until I get my passport , am alone I have no one to practice with , life sucks ha, but I was hhhhhhhhhhh practicing with the cleaner hand u know the hover , but I need work man I loved aikido since I new Steven Segal is a master in it but it was illegal in my country at the time. So if I have a chance to come over and take some lessons with u I wonder back down I well come as soon as I can

What do you mean

THE ROGUE WARRIORS - Where Warriors are FORGED you gave that lecture in the beginning about changing your mind because you got so many requests

John Smith is obviously a fake account, created for the sole-purpose of trolling...but i'll take the bait. I will take a wild guess here and say your real account is probably Michel, jjtharp, M S, or perhaps even a decorated Shihan. If I had to whittle it down, I would say it's not M S because his English sucks. It's also not jjtharp, because he agrees with Lenny Sly Sensei, sometimes. A decorated Shihan, unlikely, so I am leaning towards Michel. Am I right, Michel? Maybe it's some new blood that I can destroy...hahaha. Either way, I will call you Bunny. Ok, Bunny... Let's start by saying that we would like to see some videos of you performing untouchable traditional aikido. Don't have any? Well, that sucks...because we almost believed your fantasy. Shihan will not (and we don't expect them to) come along and comment, because at their level of Aikido, they surely know their shit doesn't work with resistance. So, they stay in their little caves playing humble as a defense against the truth. '̲'̲I̲f̲ ̲I̲ ̲p̲l̲a̲y̲ ̲h̲u̲m̲b̲l̲e̲,̲ ̲I̲ ̲d̲o̲n̲'̲t̲ ̲h̲a̲v̲e̲ ̲t̲o̲ ̲t̲r̲y̲ ̲t̲o̲ ̲d̲e̲f̲e̲n̲d̲ ̲t̲h̲a̲t̲ ̲w̲h̲i̲c̲h̲ ̲I̲ ̲k̲n̲o̲w̲ ̲d̲o̲e̲s̲n̲'̲t̲ ̲w̲o̲r̲k̲ ̲i̲n̲ ̲r̲e̲a̲l̲ ̲l̲i̲f̲e̲.̲'̲'̲ Here's another saying for you, "A̲̅i̲̅k̲̅i̲̅B̲̅u̲̅n̲̅n̲̅i̲̅e̲̅s̲̅,̲̅ ̲̅n̲̅e̲̅v̲̅e̲̅r̲̅ ̲̅w̲̅r̲̅e̲̅s̲̅t̲̅l̲̅e̲̅ ̲̅w̲̅i̲̅t̲̅h̲̅ ̲̅a̲̅ ̲̅p̲̅i̲̅g̲̅,̲̅ ̲̅b̲̅e̲̅c̲̅a̲̅u̲̅s̲̅e̲̅ ̲̅p̲̅i̲̅g̲̅s̲̅ ̲̅l̲̅i̲̅v̲̅e̲̅ ̲̅i̲̅n̲̅ s̲̅h̲̅i̲̅t̲̅ ̲̅a̲̅n̲̅d̲̅ ̲̅k̲̅n̲̅o̲̅w̲̅ ̲̅h̲̅o̲̅w̲̅ ̲̅t̲̅o̲̅ ̲̅m̲̅a̲̅n̲̅e̲̅u̲̅v̲̅e̲̅r̲̅ ̲̅w̲̅h̲̅e̲̅n̲̅ ̲̅s̲̅h̲̅i̲̅t̲̅ ̲̅h̲̅i̲̅t̲̅s̲̅ ̲̅t̲̅h̲̅e̲̅ ̲̅f̲̅a̲̅n̲̅!̲̅

Lori, Some people you might reach ...... other's are a waste of time. Wisdom comes from recognizing the difference .......... where did I put that zafu? .....

You must be jealous, it's not our fault you suck.

Jealous? Dude, I’m not jealous of you, there’s literally nothing to be jealous of. If anything I feel pity. I’ve no idea who taught you to do this technique in the first place but your's is really poor. You’ll ignore this because you’re ego probably can’t handle it, but here’s a list of what went wrong with that technique. There was, genuinely, very little that was good about it. After 16 years of traditional aikido training, you appear to have missed a great deal. If you’re going to set yourself up to shit all over something, learn to do it properly first. 1. Uke’s attack is poor (granted, not your fault). The grip isn’t secure which means they’re not actually attacking you. If they were then the palm would be flush against the wrist, which it isn’t. This means the grip is extremely weak and you can easily break the grip allowing an elbow strike straight to the face 2. On the first tenkan you let the arm turn in (nages arm), this collapses the entire structure on that side of the body allowing the uke to expand into your space 3. The collapsed arm on the tenkan also prevents you from actually affecting the uke’s balance at all, which is why when you step back after the tenkan the uke is upright and about to smash your face in. Why, because they can, because you let them, because you failed to enter properly. 4. There is an opportunity to recover the situation at that point but you didn’t take it, because you’re atemi was worthless. It should have cut straight up the centre line dominating the space between the 2 of you and forcing uke to either lean back or take an uppercut. Instead, again, you let the arm collapse and totally fail to have any extension in the arm, allowing uke to dominate the centre line and force you onto the back foot. 5. When you make the kaiten step to go under uke’s arm it’s some of the worst technique yet. First, you collapse the other arm leaving your uke on balance. You might have been able to take the balance here (finally) but you blew that opportunity too. Frankly, all the uke has to do is retract their arm and you’re on your ass. Second, you make a cardinal sin in that you lift the arm over your head, further allowing uke to retain their balance. You should go under the arm, which is a very different concept 6. You utterly fail to cut down. You aren’t ever close to locking that position in to allow the final throw. It’s appalling, I’ve seen 5th Kyu do it better than you. This also means that your uke is high. They’re barely bent over and, due to your continual failure to have any effect on their balance they are in a very strong position to counter. At this stage they should have just torn your nut sack off. I would have. 7. Why your uke is thrown at this point I have no idea at all. They’re far too high and if this actually worked then it’s because you used nothing but muscle. Ukes head should be so low before you step in to throw that you naturally knee strike the face as you do, without raising your knee beyond a normal step. 8. You also let go of the back of the head, any uke worth their salt would have stood up at this point. The reason you let go of their head? Simple, you totally failed to step through and finish the technique. You’re back to relying on strength. 9. All of the above also applies to the ura version but with an added twist. As well as failing to step through the technique at the end, you fail to finish the actual turn to permit the ura version. 10. One final thing. Kaiten nage should make use of the Kaiten movement. Pretty sure you aren’t actually doing that. Can’t see your feet so hard to say but the hip movements suggest that you aren’t.

John Smith, There are 3 reasons people make comments: 1. they honestly want to know/learn/contribute something. 2. something about it has upset them. 3. They're trolling. Since you don't want to know anything and you seem to already know it all then you're not in group 1. That means you're in group 2 or 3 so either get over yourself or just move on to someplace where you can have more fun. Cuz.....reading your comments kinda says you have some transference going on there ( google that, it a phsicology concept) and stop wasting your time trying to win an argument nobody, other than you cares to have. ...... Must have fallen off the wrong side of my zafu in practice this morning so, my apologies Sly, Sensei......LOL

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