AIZEN VS YHWACH - Could Aizen DEFEAT Yhwach in the Final Battle? | Bleach TYBW Discussion 

I don’t think so. Almighty is just too broken

AIZEN is a key player but never the key of victory I believe honestly

Aizen couldn't put a scratch yhwach. Only ichigo has the ap capable of actually damaging the quincy king. Kyoka suigetsu was his saving grace. Even then the moment yhwach realizes he's unde it, he breaks it and puts a hole through aizen. Aizen is powerful but he's not on sk yhwachs level.

Tommo if the anime is made as an complemente to the manga, it is obivous that Yuha will win, he stated that he can kill Aizen and the only reason he do not do it for now is it will take time and in that momente he dont have the time nescessary to do this.

I think kyoka suigetsu is the ability, with which Aizen can spit in the face of God

Honestly it would have been cool if it worked like izanagi. Where his shikai puts his opponent in a illusion his bankai would make his illusions reality. I guess similar to Grammy but not in a way where your are limited by imagination.

I feel like it couldve been a factor, but if he didnt use it in the battle against what is essentially God, whose whole plan was to assimilate and merge the worlds, then it might be one of those ones that requires a very specific situation to be used in.

I like to think that Aizen himself is the bankai. He took over the original user who first activated bankai.

@@seel2835 true especially with Aizen’s intelligence. It would have been a great time for Aizen to pull a bankai. Kubo should have just put it in seeing as he wrote himself into a corner with the arrow and ichigo cutting him in half. Obviously had time constraints but if there was a time, this would have been it. Really didn’t like how ichigo bankai was never explained or if he got another ability. Hopefully we’ll get something in the anime

For what he mentioned, his Bankai isn't at variable anymore, he fused completely with his sword, meaning he was already at his peak shinigami power. So a Bankai would be like descending in powe level

I hope they leave it to be a surprise. And not spoil it in the trailer like Shinji's. It wouldav been so awesome seeing him use bankai out of nowhere but we're going into the second cour expecting Shinji's Bankai.

I think it will be changed and greatly expanded upon. Just look what the anime did with ichigo and Yhwachs first encounter, went from one attack in the manga to a whole fight, and showed a new move from Yhwach. It’s safe to say that the last fight will get the same treatment

It wont change but it will expand on it

Ain’t he like two stages above bankai? and what would his bankai even be

aizen dont have a bankai or he doesnt use it

Yeah, I've come to think that over time too.

@@aliveandwellinisrael2507 he disappears completely and his bankai didn't remain broken despite us seeing his break. We all know how Bankai work with being broken, however Orihime could still probably heal his bankai as she did with Ichigos. Especially after Yhwach is defeated. Tsukishima could create another new timeline that wasn't affected by Yhwach's changes. Renjis only contribution is when he gets his arm cut off and gets blown away, however Aizen is then missing his left arm so we KNOW in this instance it was Aizen looking like Renji because of KS

Renji was never there. You even see renji's snake bones from zabimaru still fading away despite the present body being ichigo's.

Renji was never there. Who is telling y'all this?

@@dinomoney2142 as said I don't believe he was there but alot of people do

Or bankai

Its why he had the hougyoku, he was forcing himself to evolve to actualize his plan before Yuha woke up and restore his power.

@@fiore0364 * steals bankai * YOU IDIOT I JUST STOLE YOUR STUPID BANKAI HAHAHAHA

Of course is too broken and I'm glad that Kubo make it op the way it is because comes from the creator of Bleach verse, Soul King alive was probably close to omnipotence.

​@@felipez3115it's bad writing to make a villain so hax that the only way he can ve defeated us by a dues ex machina.

Slick a valid point

That’s false …… ichigo is his experiment,, he’d want to see it through that ichigo does it …..

@@gralegambino1433 Experiment!!! Please stop the CAP!! Ichigo WAS his Experiment, but Ichigo broke out of that Fate when he defeated Aizen.

@@toyinaboko-cole2015 no tf he didn’t 😂😂😂 at the end of the manga it comes full circle Aizen started the plan just for the Quincy return …….

Aizen ain't beating this dude even if he had Banakai he still wouldn't win the dude had the Almighty, Soul King power, absorbed Ichibei's power, and Yama's Bankai yeah.... Nobody beating this dude 1v1 and not even close

Point 1 is true but clearly he was unable to break out which is why Yhwach had to do it

The Almighty has the ability to see and alter the future; he was put under its spell before he attained The Almighty, and therefor, he can't change being under its spell, as all futures he is apart of are are preceded by their interaction where he is put under the spell of KS. That being said, with Aizen, he's really beyond logic, and could have made that the illusion he wanted Ywach to see, in order to instill a false sense of hope.

@@--...--...--... How i see it, the Almighty can't distinguish illusions between reality because at the end of the day, both are still possible futures in his visions. I don't think it's necessarily because he was placed under the spell prior to activating his Almighty. Plus, KS deactivating soon after Yhwach stabbed Aizen kinda suggests that touching the latter did indeed do something to the spell. But again, that's just my interpretation, yours is ok as well.

The last point makes a lot of sense kind of like when Yamamoto grabbed aizens arm during the fake town ark

@--...--...--... this is true but I also don't understand how Yhwach broke out of Ichimojis effects tbh. I think Kubo just decided to suck Aizen off and make him powerful enough to be relevant in the final fight.

Exactly what I was thinking

But Aizen ability still worked while Yhwach impaled him. Yhwach would win

Gin said about touching his blade before its realesed. What if he used KS shikai to hypno and slashed with it.

Aren't you supposed to say something when touching the blade to break of KS's illusions?

@@skyreapery2n164 well he is the blade now so you just need to touch him.

Bro they will fix that fight bc its already rushed

Seeing how rushed the manga was, there's a chance we could maybe get a look at Aizen's bankai in the anime. Won't be this season though if it gets animated.

@@Chaviasmusic Kubo is quite involved in the anime so I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw extra bankai’s. I believe he wants to redeem what happened with the second half of the arc and how poorly the ending was received.

Story wise...no...1v1 death battle type ish...possibly

Aizen is not in fact immortal. When u get back into Yhwach's first meeting with Sosuke he stated that killing him could have taken a lot of time and this was kind of the reason why Yhwach wanted to convince Aizen to side with him. So once again -He is not in fact immortal.

​@@sathuria_pendragonthere's different types of immortality and limits to said immortality.

@@sathuria_pendragon Well against time few can claim immortality, for all we know what Yuha was talking about could have taken years to accomplish. But we also know that aizen managed to survive yuha seemingly eating him? whatever happened to him he managed to live through it. And this was a yuha that was not even comparable to the one that said the words you noted. So if almighty yuha couldnt kill aizen, who can?

@@alispeed5095 Based on previous Yhwach speech u can clearly tell that u would have to use some kind of time worthy method in order to bond away Hogyoku from Aizen's soul which as a final result granted Sosuke the immortality. It's no argument that "if SK empowered Yhwach couldnt do that then who can". Yhwach clearly HAD a method. I mean there's no point to even argue it. I don't even know what an argument that is. FYI almighty Yhwach couldn't achieve his goals after all and got defeated as a result by the combined forces of Ryuken, Ichigo and Aizen. So it's not even an argument. Yhwach (as tite kubo stated in the moment I mentioned) HAD a way. It was just too time consuming. and the almighty "aspect" of yhwach is not an argument. Due to his ultimate defeat at the end :p Hogyoku is after all a thing that was out of reach for Soul King aswell one could say that it's even an anomaly. If you use the same logic u brought then ask urself why didn't Yhwach achieve his goals with his Soul King-empowered form? If he was so powerful. It's just invalid logic. Aizen's immortality was granted to extreme extend by Hogyoku, and u can clearly tell Yhwach had a method, was willing to carry over aizen to his side cause considered it as a threat. One of the special war threads. Just cause of that, and since time was a limiting factor that ultimately doomed him well u can clearly see why he did not bother with it.

Gin said you had to touch the blade before being under hypnosis.

Nice one 👍

He never really broke out the hypnosis.... And also you have to touch his (Aizen) zanpakuto before he activates it... But during the fight he had it active ALL the time

You need to reread the manga again.. Gin said that you have to touch it before it activated KS not after Aizen already using KS.

@@rein1329 Yet he still touched it before attacking Aizen. And Yamamoto said he could feel Aizen's/Kyouka Suigetsu's riatsu through the sword when he was stabbed. That statement and Gin's actions make it evident that he touching the sword provide some protection against it.

@@ajay_omega8967 It isn't and yamamoto never break free from it and never stated anywhere other than headcanon, he have better chance to sense Aizen because his sword was already inside his stomach. There are isn't a single statement who said touching the sword provide some protection against KS. Go read the Manga again. Actually since you are prob never read it directly let me quote it for you using official translation: >>Chapter 414: The only way to escape Kyoka Suigetsu"s power is to "touch" the blade "before complete hypnosis" has been activated. Just touching the blade will do nothin if they already under KS.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need to touch it before you fall under its spell? Like once you fall under Kanzen Saimen, it cant be undone unless Aizen chooses to undo it. Touching KS should only make it so you cant fall under Kanzen Saimen in the first place, IIRC

i actually cant remember if its before or during myself. but if what you said is true, its definitely an excellent point! @@AjarTadpole7202

Well the only reason that silver arrow worked was due to Yhwachs own negligence and Haschwalth placing the vision into his mind while he was asleep thus making him believe it was a dream

@@kakashihatake1029they really need to expand on uryu and the arrow in the anime

@@keenfuturehe can use antithesis hopefully in a clear way to beat him.

all the seals do is reduce range not density or power

@@bigmeme6409 that's kind of a huge deal though. Aizen uses his power to influence. That power being contained around him prevents him from fully projecting it

@@bluemoon1716 we are talking about against yhwach, what is projecting spiritual pressure going to do? We see that he is in comfortable range for shikai and kido there's really not much the seals are effectively doing

Do you know how powerful and high yhwach SP also is before dreaming that aizen should have defeated someone like yhwach with SP if he wasn't sealed 🤣😂. So because he made him a special threat because of his SP now suddenly turned yhwach to grimmjow level character that aizen could beat with his SP. Just keep thinking about it in your head alone. It's sometimes pitiful to be a fanboy because you just keep thinking weird stuffs like the one you just did lol.

@@lexogun1311 😚

What if aizen never had a bankai, and he used his shikai to make everyone believe he mastered bankai. Just a thought crossed my mind

But don't forget as well they was nerfing a good portion of his spiritual pressure cause remember when he wanted to get out of the chair or shoot down the sole king's palace the captain of squad 12 as well as the captain of squad 8/1 captain kyorraku explained to him he has limiters put in place internally that limited his abilities so What you saw and what he did in hado number 90 who's to say that's the strongest output he could have done with that? Also Yhwach made it perfectly clear it would be difficult for him to kill him so at a certain point he would have to put himself in a predicament that would put him in a range of being attacked or fatally wounded by Aizen,since he's fused with the Hyokoku

@@colgatemlp6368na its been stated that aizen mastered everything the soul society has to offer

@@colgatemlp6368 it’s unlikely, he didn’t just master everything the shimigami’s had to learn, but he evolved beyond it. That, and he’s a pure genius who experimented on the evolution between Quincy’s, hollows, and soul reapers. It’s hard to do that if you cannot even evolve the shimigami side.

Ichigo didn't say Aizen lost because he wanted to lose, he said he returned to being a normal shinigami because that's what he wanted deep down, I don't think Aizen could have killed Yhwach precisely because of that, he returned to being a normal shinigami, and the fact that he banked on Ichigo finishing the job instead of doing it himself proves he couldn't have done it.

This is something people never mention it seems like they do forget about it unless I’m forgetting they mention it don’t affect him but it’s highly likely that he is still being held back and that in reality it’s only like 5% of his power

@@iDungToMuch it only limits the range for his SP bot power. he is always at 100% but you need to real close to him to be affected by him.

​​@@sarthakarora3212nd that ended once the chair was destroyed. Aizen himself even remarks that the remainder of his seals are gone. Idk what those two guys above are talking about.

@@josephsmiley1Aizen's eye is literally being sealed the whole fight, wtf are you talking about?

@@sarthakarora3212 you do realize that limiting range of SP is the same as reducing it's effect and potency thousands of times? Aren't you concerned about being pierced by a needle with a width of 5 mm versus 20 cm? Why do you perceive range of application differently then? In a battle, the range makes the difference from "having slight advantage" to "impossible to win" I'm really tired about people doing copy pasta without thinking for themselves

People are speculating that Uryu's The Antithesis makes him immune to The Almighty however we don't know the exact mechanic of his ability. Jugram with The Almighty couldn't predict Uryu. He even admitted that The Antithesis can be a perfect counter against The Almighty.

@@zaiminnosi2905 Is one of those things fans overheat their brains to come up with an answer. The reality is this was something poorly written as a lot of things in this arc, we should just admit that and be at peace instead of blindly defending what was only once a great series.

@@gemodemplay415 Not really, Kubo foreshadowing it multiple times already. He just don't have times to properly show The Antithesis. Hopefully the anime will give more explanation.

​@@gemodemplay415Wish the arrow rearranged or used for something instead have all 5 war potentials vs S.K. Ychwach ( stolen C.Yam ) in all out Soul-Society destructive battle.

Yeah, I figured this was the reason.

that's what I was thinking as well. This seems to be the most plausible answer. since he merged with his zanpakuto - impaling him with his hand basically made Juha Yhwach touch his zanpakuto

No, you had to touch Kyoka Suigetsu before the release. Touching the sword after or during the release didn't do anything

If slashing by aizen sword can one get out to aizen KS then why renji who slash by Aizen still didn't get out to the effect of complete hypnosis? I believe that only by touching aizen sword before release is the only way. But I wonder... How it is possible now since aizen zanpakuto is already merge to him?

If we consider that Aizen go out his way to master kido this made even more sense, think about Aizen when he started his shinigame path, every time he atack his enemys his ilusion is broken, because of this he staterd to train his kido to the point he can use some of the most powerfull kido without an incantation, why someone who power never wear of without touching his zampakuto in the moment of realeasing shikai worked so hard to master kido otherwide

Sure if we're talking him at max power(having absorbed the Soul King). That's just not really fair. However, I think Aizen might win against him without the Soul Kings power. Though it really depends on how much the Soul Kings power buffed the Almighty which is hard to guess.

it all depends on what Aizen's bankai is, since his shikai is already broken.

Give Aizen a thousand years.

Hygyoku solo yhwach, aizen didn't kill yhwach himself because he wanted ICHIGO to WIN, it's really not hard to understand, go read the manga again

​@@quincyKidoare you kidding? Yhwach whitouth plot arrow is invincible.

Wouldn’t matter for ichigo as he was never under it and has touched kyoka s blade he is immune

You know honestly thinking. Couldn’t he just think of a timeline where he brings himself back ever after being hit by the arrow, and that would explain why he actually did it

Ichigo was more of a threat to Yhwach than Aizen ever was, infact, if we are going by the war potential lists, threads 1) Ichigo, 2nd) Kenpachi, 3rd) Ichibe 4th) Aizen, 5th) Urahara. Before Kenpachi lost to Royd, he was the biggest threat to Yhwach and his over all plans. Whether you like it or not or come back with "WEL KENPACHI ISNT EVEN STRONGER THAT ICHIGO OR AIZEN", that is irrelevant because that is exactly how the War Potentials list was written by Kubo himself.

@@thejammyproject bro what r u on about? U Rli came here crying and fighting over a comment? 🥴who hurt u man, grow up lol

@@msb3782 Stating simple facts kid.

@@thejammyproject lmao alright 🤣 go fight somewhere else kiddo

@@msb3782 I mean if you had basic reading skills you would of already known all this reading the Manga as well as the lore readily available online. But you retards just like to make up your own shit all time.

he'd defeat juha bach absolutely it's just he's not the main protagonist

​@@meow-ic6gzNo just don't dude... Be honest with yourself... Yhwach claps Aizen

@@nhlakaniphojack5056 lol if the hogyoku acknowledge aizen as it's master then he'd clap the entire wandenriech no diff

@@meow-ic6gzdo kindly explain how he would beat Yhwach on his own???

@@nhlakaniphojack5056 hogyoku grants the user to materialize their wishes and desires into reality on top of it's user would also become the perfected both hollow and shinigami

didn't Aizen merge with his Zanpakuto? isn't that why he can trap people in illusions when they simply stare at him.

@@jaredfrancis5062yes

Aizen already fooled almighty with shikai

@@jaredfrancis5062then I’ll ask the stone hashira from demon slayer to kill aizen. He’s blind he don’t have to stare at him

@@gabrielvarca Its because he used it before the allmighty yhawch when they first went into contact, he then breaks out of it on his own accord using the almighty when he realised it

I think his bankai is just not as useful as his shakai

Yes, but he also implies he can kill Aizen, but doesn't want to waste his time doing so.

Exactly. And as far as him talking about "the illusion ending when he cut harribel etc" Like, yeah, the blade cutting them = touching the blade. The whole reason Gin grabbed Aizen's blade is that it stops the illusion lol

I doubt a couple slivers of the soul king will be able to bring aizen anywhere close to the level of yhwach

​@@bigmeme6409dude, Aizen was tanking the sternritter abilities lile they were flies. 😅 Shunsui even comments on this when Nana tried to use his power on Aizen and it only lasted for less than 5 minutes. 😅 Aizen is a trascendant being

@@lordlightning2339 how about you read what I wrote and then explain how anything you wrote holds any relevance in this discussion

Pretty Yhwach intentionally destroyed the chair and wasn't aiming his attack specifically at Aizen... Even if you try to deny its easily provable as Yhwach was able to effortlessly damage Aizen punching a hole and ripping off his arm...if he's able to damage after he is free from the chair. why wouldn't he able to damage Aizen when he is restrained to the chair and can't move? That makes no sense

@@nhlakaniphojack5056 what makes no sense is your claim that he deliberately wanted to free Aizen from the chair after Aizen made it clear to him in Muken he wasn’t interested in joining him. “Ah yes, the guy i labeled as a war potiential…lemme just free you so you can get in my way instead of killing you on the spot to prevent any of your shenanigans.” That’s what you just basically said.

aizen powers affect yhwach because aizen has more reatsu than 50 soul kings, yhwach will never beat aizen

It could be "weaker" like Shinji's bankai. That would be a decent reason behind him never using it.

My guess is that the whole reason why KS worked against Yuha in the first place is because he put Yuha under his spell prior to Yuha getting The Almighty.

Likely something that isn't nearly as useful. Otherwise he would have used it already.

Aixen would never use his Bankai. He sees himself as a being above all. Using his Bankai would be admitting he needs to rely on something beneath him.

He probably doesn’t have one he probably used KS to show a fake bankai to get captain status

Same here. I feel like he is forgetting that Aizen has most of his power sealed.

Yeah Aizen's strength is his SP. Not being able to fully exert his massive pressure was a huge handicap

@@bluemoon1716 bro it didn't sealed his power the chair did that and it was destroyed mayuri explain this 🙄🙄

@@andrerussell5130 the chair was part it. Read the manga, shunsui unlocks seals on aizens body.

​@@bluemoon1716CHAPTER 618: Aizen himself says that "such gross carelessness these bindings don't seal away my reaitsu they only confine it to the space around me" The Seals only bind his reaitsu close to him... They don't affect his output or power... Hence why the kido corps member almost disintegrated when trying get close and touch Aizen.. His reaitsu is still transedent like it was after fusing with the Hogyoku

Agree a lot with that final point. However the controller of the past is undoubtedly Tsukishima even if wasn't the main villain

I wouldn't call a onesided beat down a scrap. Yhwach literally put hands on him. In fact Aizen never once harmed Yhwach. A lvl 99 kido got no sold.

Not a single person gave Yhwach a "scrap", they were all getting rag dolled and not even their plot armour abilities saved them (KS, Ichigo being MC, etc) literally none of them are a match to Yhwach, and got the most boring conclusion ever to a fight, a fucking arrow, how bad at story writing must you be you can't make your characters win with their own abilities that you need an arrow to do it for them.

aizen has hygyoku, that alone can erase yhwach from existance

​@thejammyproject bro don't disrespect Tite Kubo you ignorant imb*cile, he had massive health issues and had to rush the ending, Tite Kubo is by far one of the best story writer

​@@quincyKido Your on some serious drugs dude. The Hogyoku is weak compared to Yhwach and the only thing its capable of doing and been proven to do is give people more power including different levels of transformations (Aizen), or manifesting their untrained powers(Orihime/Chad). It hasn't been proven to do anything else, let alone kill anyone. And the Almighty massively overpowers it.

He didnt evolve because he had no desire for it, if he wanted to he wouldve

@@youcantmakethisup9048 That makes no sense at all though because Yhwach was literally the obstacle in the way of Aizen’s goals. His whole “no one rules over me” attitude and defiance were the main reasons he chose to oppose Yhwach in the first place. Remember, everything Yhwach had done while infiltrating the royal realm is what Aizen had intended to do as well, at least with the exception of merging the worlds, whereas Aizen wanted to stand in heaven and prove his point. Narratively, it makes zero sense for Aizen to be like “hmm, my greatest foe is right before me, but I have no desire to actually stop him from getting what he wants. Better not evolve.”

And Aizen reiatsu is still>>>>>

@@gralegambino1433 and yet it didnt do shit in the final battle plus it can easily be debated that yhwach has more

@@Bozz00 it didn’t do shit ????? You do know hax don’t work if the opponent has more SP. Than you?? And yhwach named Aizen war threat for his reiatsu…….. and KS is reiatsu based ……. If yhwach was truly stronger he could break out whenever he wanted … BUT HE COULDNT …….. this is proved in the novels …… ks can be broken with overwhelming power ….. but Aizen was too strong ….

@@gralegambino1433 Your literally forgetting that if aizen had more reiastu, yhwach attacks wouldn't have even left a scratch like what happened between Kenny and ichigo and of course everybody knows reiastu can neg hax but he doesn't do that to the almighty

@@Bozz00 once again I’m not debating ….. it’s literally confirmed in novels

Aizen way cooler but yhwatch is way more hax and powerful it's pretty obvious

bro stop meat riding for aizen its cringe 😐😐😐😐😐😐

@@andrerussell5130 U mad bro? What's going on at home?

@@JustanothaGuy ur stupid to think aizen wasnt using full power then explain to me how aizen could use hado 99 without an incantation 🤨

Yhwach in his base Form was strong enough to Steal and Withstand Yamamoto's bankai... No other Sternritter was capable of stealing Yamamoto's bankai just as Yhwach says... Yamamoto's bankai still makes the strongest captain in tybw..Bankai Yamamoto ~Base Yhwach >> Aizen without Zanpakuto > Gotei 13... Also You are delusional if you think Yhwach is not Hogyoku special without the almighty lol

​@@nhlakaniphojack5056you do know he was only able to steal it bc Lloyd rroyd 😂 making yama waste his moves on a clone

@@Indica64 no bro stop the Cap... You need to As strong as the person you are stealing the Bankai from or at least being at the same power level... Episode 6 of TYBW or chapter 510 of the Manga... Yhwach himself says to Yamamoto "BUT YOUR POWER IS SO STRONG THAT NO ONE OTHER THAN I CAN HANDLE IT".. confirming that Base Yhwach is at Yamamoto's level so you kindly stop denying it

@@nhlakaniphojack5056 bruh Cap it's str8 from manga that's y he use a clone to make him release his bankai and use most his powers because he would have been fucked and you can steal all but Ichigo

@@Indica64 Come on dude.. This shouldn't be a debate at all lol... Go watch episode 6 of TYBW right now and read what Watch says at 21:20 minutes into the episode or Reread Chapter 510... It completely debunks everything you say

Well urahara did state that his power surpassed what he displayed against ichigo in their last battle so it stands his power still grows greatly

@@gammafrost most likey because he was growing in power while sitting on a chair i wish i could do that

Probably after 2 or 3 more beat downs. His 2nd fight showed him tanking hits that tore through him before hand and partially resisting almighty. I feel like given enough time he'd evolve enough to be either immune or completely above it.

Factual

Aizen slams Ywatch, kid, stop being delusional, that's an obvious answer 😂