American Rapper First Time Seeing - BTS vs. K-POP: a video essay [Reaction] 

I find it significant that RM refers to BTS as a team instead of a group.

I have been watching you for the last few days, trying to catch up with what you have done so far. I just wanted to take a moment to say "Thank You" for your input in your videos. You bring so much knowledge to the conversation being a part of the industry yourself. You also don't sugarcoat facts and it's refreshing. I hope you have a great day my guy! Many Blessings to you. BORAHAE! ♡Vintage ARMY

I really appreciate your reaction, especially your POV as a black American. I agree this glosses over black music erasure and that adds a whole other counter argument to the concept of what a “genre” is and how that actually plays out in the industry. Even if someone doesn’t agree with Elliott’s conclusion here I think getting this content from other reputable sources/channels is important to create your own well informed and balanced opinion, so thanks for reacting to my suggestion!!

Fun fact - BTS song Spring Day was released in 2017 and has never left the Korean chart (Gaon). Todays it sits at #76. I would love your reaction to this song but I would advise watching both the Bookish Theory explanation video (more focused on video symbolism) & the Italian ARMY explanation video (more focused on the tragedy the video/song represent).

I am finding your perspective interesting and enjoyable. Although I am an older ARMY but I wouldn't consider myself quite a vintage yet cuz I'm still waiting for my first grandchild. My current top wish in life is to see healthy grandchildren to share my love for BTS and be able to attend at least one BTS concert before I die. I was living in Korea during the 88 Seoul Olympics. Korean music back then is very different from nowadays even though they had some western elements. I left Korea during the early 90's right before all the K-POP craze we know of today. Korea has certainly changed a lot since then. You nice, keep going!😄

i don't view kpop as a genre. if it was, there would be "country" genres for every single country in the world. "kpop" contains so many completely different genres within the industry that it's like grouping heavy metal and ballads in the same grouping, it doesn't work. people fall into that "country" grouping usually when they cover different countries and they're too lazy or don't want to distinguish between everything a country has to offer so they just shove it all in a neat little national box and name it "insert the first letter of a country's name-pop", even if it's not even pop. america does this too often. idol music is a much better more sensical term for what "kpop" is, because it doesn't contain people who have nothing to do with it or who jump out in one way or another within it.

I like your insightful reactions. Keep going! 51:14 You seem to be intrested in what ’han’ means. I like to quote a Korean from reddit who explains it very well: “First of all, it's important to understand how we (Koreans) understand the term "K-pop". The term is not used in Korea except for in a foreign context (eg: on the news about BTS' US performances and chart achievements). Here, pop songs sung in Korean by boy/girl groups put together by music companies are called "idol music" or "idol pop" and is generally not listened to or much respected by those older than 21-22 mainly for the reason that, to us (I'm in my 30s), it is not really Korean. Yes, the singers are (mainly) Korean and the songs are 99% Korean, but around the mid-2000s when the government decided that idol music was going to become a competitive export, idol music companies mostly bought songs made by Western producers (Swedes, Americans, British, etc.) and just had Korean writers put Korean lyrics to them. Much of the time, these are songs that were already rejected by A-class Western pop singers (SM is an especially big sinner in this). So why would we listen to B-grade Western pop songs when we could listen to A-grade Western pop? Moreover, to us, the key criteria is not genre that determines whether it's truly Korean or not is the presence or absence of what we call "Han". Han has no direct translation in English but it's a mix of sorrow, nostalgia, anger, pain, and hope. It's the emotional journey and state of mind of someone who has been gravely wronged but is powerless (made powerless) in society to take revenge but decides eventually to cling to the hope of a better future when you overcome your Han. It colours Korean films, dramas, and esp our literature. And, regardless of genre, it's in all true Korean music. And this brings me to BTS. I think the Korean general public is now fascinated with BTS because they are packaged like a typical idol group and so in the beginning most of us older than 21-22 would have dismissed them as another idol group making idol music. But then they kept defying the odds and posted incredible results in the US, and that's when the Korean general public (myself included) started wondering "what is it that the West sees that we're not seeing? Could it be that this is not a typical idol group or their music isn't really idol music?" It turns out, their music is extremely Korean. I sense Han in almost all their title songs but especially in Spring Day, and it's no coincidence that it's Spring Day that drew in so many Korean fans in their 30s, 40s, etc. On top of that, their personal story of struggling and finally being acknowledged in the industry is also full of Han. And this has led me (and I'm sure many others in Korea who otherwise wouldn't touch idol music/K-pop with a 12-foot pole) to realise that they are Korean artists producing true Korean music.“ With that being said I recommend the song ‘Spring Day‘ by BTS. It didn‘t left Korean charts since its release 5 years ago. It is full of what Koreans would consider ’han’. Please react to the explanation video ’[2021] What you STILL DON'T KNOW about BTS SPRING DAY MV‘ by Italian Army in addition to that. It is in Italian, but it has English subs. Take your time while reading the subs, Italian people tend to spreak very fast :D

22:52 you thought that guy to the right of seo taiji is lee sooman (chairman of SM Entertainment, one of the big 3 companies in kpop) but the funny thing is the guy on the left is actually yang hyunsuk (the chairman of YG Enertainment, also one of the big 3). i like to refer to him as "seo taiji's backup dancer"

I am vintage Army, 56 years old so hair bands were my my thing in high school. I would go to those all day multi artist Day on the Green concerts…. Nostalgia….

I consider BTS as artist/musicians and yes I like the term Artist Collective.

this channel cas commentary on the "the late capitalism of kpop", it's actually the next one, "you're wrong about k-pop: a video essay"

Hey @48:26 just a heads up as of rn bc that video is outdated Armys generally don’t fuck with modooborahae (she was accredited in the video and she’s a really popular and influential translation account) bc she’s been really fucking weird lately she’s been releasing private information about BTS schedule which puts both BTS and fans in danger. Jin was asking fans NOT to come to the army base where he was leaving bc it’s already crowded and will make it hard for family and friends to say bye to their loved ones and she disregarded that request and released when and where he’d be on that day. She’s a very turbulent topic in the community some ppl back her and support her no matter what but generally we don’t really fuck with her anymore. She used to be a very valuable member but she’s been using her influence very irresponsibly. Also I can’t wait to see u dive into OT7(a term for all 7 members it means one true 7 and is derived from OTP = one true pairing in fandom culture) Music. Are you going to start from the beginning of their music or just skip around the albums. If so I’d reccomend wings or BE. My personal faves.

"vintage army" is so cute😭

is bts kpop? yes. is bts only kpop? no. is bts hip hop? yes. is bts only hip hop? no. is bts.... you see where i'm going with this. they were intitally formed as a hip hop group but bang pd changed his mind and so they debuted as a hip hop idol group. they then became known as a kpop idol group and then a global pop group. they've always jumped from one label to another because no one can seem to categorize them. and they like it that way because genre hopping and genre fusion has always been a part of their trajectory.

The part where I disagree with Elliott is at the end. When he says "bts has broadened the horizon of kpop" several things have to be pointed out.. and this is about the future bts have created. 1. The kpop industry have been for several years, trying and failing to recreate bts. 2. BTS have surpassed what a kpop group can achieve and gone so beyond that it is basically impossible for any kpop group to achieve what they have achieved. 3. The kpop industry have failed to take the lessons bts taught in artists freedom and expression. 4. Kpop industry and the big three have been trying to suppress and deny bts's success. 5. Instead of remodelling their idol industry methods kpop has turned even more corporate in its attempts to attract an army like audience. They are following trends bts have accidently created with no real substance.. So I disagree with the point bts have broadened kpops horizons. Cus kpop is doing the opposite of what bts are doing. Boracity magazines "Why ARMYS don't Like Kpop" explains this in detail. Here you go. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oLKq-p2IDBM.html

Your videos kept me entertained for half my day. I finally catched up with all you BTS related content, and will patiently wait for more. 😊 I totally agree with you concept of pop. That’s just what it is, popular music, not an specific genre, people just forgets about it, so for me they ARE Kpop, Korean popular music, for me the thing that separates them from the rest is their values. As much as I love other artist in kpop I have never come across a group that grabs my attention the same way BTS did, their songs are just something else. They’re lyrics are relatable and touching.

Do you have a PHD, professor? As many times as I have watched these videos and their reactors, you give a fresh and intellectual input and prospective and have the creds to back it up. Thank you.💜

I 💜the term vintage! I was 18 when hair metal hit the scene…it’s all a blur 😂😂😂😂 Thanks for the reactions!

Artist collective? Interesting, yeah, I would accept that. Especially when it comes to dealing with certain concepts, they are very layered exactly because they all contribute different (equally important) perspectives. Like, if an album is inspired by a book, they all gotta read the book and discuss, it's wild. And they also decide between each other what dealing with a certain concept might do to their psyche, or how a certain direction will affect them before bringing it to the company. (And by god, the point in their career always corresponds to the album. Some weird bigger picture, higher metaphor type thing haha). This is why I am most excited about you reacting to their albums, esp after seeing you with Indigo and Jack in the Box. I didn't comment much on how I see Indigo in terms of its concept when you started reacting cause I was still figuring you out, but the man did wonders with it. I want to make another comment. I have seen someone asking for boracity videos, but I find her videos less interesting than bby mag or something with Dr. Jiyoung Lee. Boracity is a new channel (started 8 months ago and is gaining traction), with videos that could be controversial and act more to remember a moment in time, keep receipts, and most importantly steer the fandom a certain way. It is like a tool for internal fandom discussion, so you fell straight into the center of everything. Luckily, this gathered an interesting pool of people in the comments that I haven't seen in any other reactor, it might give you an interesting look into how we educate each other, and ofc we learn a lot. All that being said, Elliot has amazing videos, which are always well researched and he seems to be knowledgeable about the korean and american music industry. So I much prefer his stuff. ("You are wrong about kpop" was especially wow.) He does not cover bts as much these days, and veers towards general social commentary (often music adjecent), but he is still a fan.

you should probably avoid videos like that "late capitalism of kpop" one, those "dark side of kpop" videos and articles are negatively charged for clicks and, though not entirely incorrect, it's much better to look at it from views of people like the elliot guy you just watched, who can provide a more balanced view without being biased against the topic (kpop) from the outset.

Two of my fav older songs of theirs: Just One Day(vibes) and Tomorrow (lyrics)

OMG! When you speak of the laziness of words, you completely hit on the meaning of one of BTS' rap lines songs--"Ugh". You should check it out. 😁

This was as good as I expected it was gonna be! You’re quickly becoming one of my favourite music reactors bc you know your shit and you you’re not super ignorant about the rest of the world like, I’m sorry to say, many Americans are 😬 I learn a bunch watching your videos! Btw, in February BTS yet to come concert will be in the cinemas. Scotland will def have some showings (I’m in Galway Ireland and we have 3). If you wanna go, it might be good to buy tickets now in case they sell out

artists collective / musical group ✅ the reason why a lot of armys will say bts is their own genre and why they dont want to associate bts with kpop is because of the narrative pushed by both korean and western media when talking about bts. speaking of western media, most of the times magazines don't do research and then to write a piece on bts they take the easiest tag you can put to bts name: kpop. this essentially leads to the statements insinuating that being part of kpop is what made bts popular, when in reality 1) having bts is what made kpop popular 2) bts indeed succeeded by diverging from kpop 3) kpop industry was the one abusing and silencing bts for years when bts had less influence and then trying to ride on bts' tale and associate with bts and contribute bts' achievements to other people and things when bts' influence became to big to silence them - which shortly explains the narrative that korean media pushes till these days so more than anything else i'd call army's endeavour to separate bts from kpop a defense mechanism or a survival tactic if to be dramatic af. because bts have been recognised for being kpop more often than being recognised for what made them alone bigger than the whole kpop. we want the world to see it, but the world doesn't listen until we make bts more approachable in their eyes

Another great reaction video from you. I just love all the inputs you gave. It shows how much you paid attention to the video. Thanks for your genuine interest in learning about BTS.

Yes, I think artist collective is a great description of BTS💜 My categorization for BTS and KPOP is that kpop is only one of the aspects of BTS, not completely who they are bc are many other things as well. I think that’s why people say BTS is their own genre that may include kpop(along with other stuff) instead of defining them as kpop itself which can simplify BTS in an incorrect way. BTS has many connections to kpop (they started in kpop and have some kpop aspects) but they also do many things differently. BTS may be considered kpop but KPOP is not necessarily BTS, i.e. most of the KPOP industry is not like BTS. This is why many ARMYs don’t really like kpop. there are things that are common in kpop that ARMYs are not a fan of but see no conflict in being fans of BTS bc those are not truly the same thing. Here I will recommend Boracity’s Why ARMYs Don’t like Kpop. One point I disagree with Eliot, BTS may be included in kpop categories and awards show but they are also one of the few to be nominated (only to win) for the Korean Music Awards which is for Korean music in general, not idol music. It is like the Korean Grammys and it’s completely based on judges criteria and critical acclaim for best Korean music and idol music (kpop) is rarely ever included. So BTS may be in kpop categories but unlike most kpop groups, they are not limited to those categories.

"Creative Artists"? Well since finding BTS I have to say in the beginning I needed all the closed captions because they were speaking a foreign language. Nowadays I want to know what the lyrics say, but most times I don't even realize they are singing/rapping in a foreign language as I'm so caught up in the music. Can even sing some of the Korean phrases. It's just a shame we have to label any music that appeals to us. It's been that way since the beginning, but I'll leave that distinction up to those who know more than I and are more heavily invested in it. Me? I'll just groove to what moves me.

Funny stiry but the guy on the horse is Taeyang from the Vibe video you just reacted to xD I sooooo agree with everything you said about genre. Shit still annoys me, and a lot of people who aren't black just don't get it or even try to.And it's funny how you bring up Diddy's show, because when BTS went to LA it was like a reality TV show called "American Hustle Life" and ARMY HATED IT LMFAOOOOO cause the boys were treated very harshly but me, used to the ways of Black music and culture was like, "bro chill it ain't that serious this is just how we are with each other dont take it personally." Lmao I cant wait till you get to that episode. ARMY still hates it and calls it a "dark time for BTS" because they grouped it in with all the other things that have happened to them from people who didn't respect them. The difference is, the way WE do it is tough love. So it was never treating them poorly because they were a lil korean boy group, it's just literally how we treat new groups in hip hop so they wanted to give them the same sort of introduction. It helped them grow and definitely taught them how to handle the hardships of becoming a celebrity, which was the purpose of the treatment in the first place. Personally, I still do not consider BTS ass KPOP. As a GENRE, no they are not the same. But as a culture? Yes, they are. So that's where I stand. I much prefer "Artist Collective" like you stated. SEVENTEEN is another popular KPOP group. There are a lot of KPOP groups that are now worldwide thanks to BTS breaking into the western industry. SEVENTEEN, BLACKPINK, STRAY KIDS, EXO, ATEEZ are the biggest right now. They are overshadowed by BTS obviously, but they still out here doing their thing. I assume we'll hear more about them now that BTS is on HIATUS too.

I appreciate you! 🔥 Also, I have never confidently been able to say I feel glad Stevie Wonder's blind until I saw that Korean Blackface pic OH my gosh 😎 I have yet to see a video essay compiling what *BTS themselves say* about whether or not they're Kpop. Personally, I would summarize that from my own recollection as BTS both accepting and rejecting the association with K-Pop. They don't only seem to embrace the 'K-Pop' association for reasons of national pride, but ultimately (I would observe) because of their relationship with Bang Si-Hyuk, their company founder. He was respected in the K-pop industry (not just idol music) before their success and he wanted to develop it beyond its worst capitalist scourges. He has a deep understanding of both Eastern and Western philosophy, and he staked his personal mission on the potential for its success *through* K-pop. I believe that is why BTS embraces their association with 'K-Pop' while of course wanting people to take them seriously beyond that label.

Hi am watching your video and just heard you saying that you live in SCOTLAND in the UK, I live in FALKIRK which is between GLASGOW and EDINBRUGH.

"Artist Collective" YEASSS

I seriously think BTS got disrespected a lot in their hip hop reality show. they even got supposedly kidnapped, yelled at and scared some of the members to death. they did learn important things but the way some things were done was a bit scary to BTS. although Suga seemed unbothered and a bit annoyed at the treatment they were getting.

I've been binge watching your content and already subscribed but if I hadn't yet, THIS would be the video I would have started subscribing. I love the talking points that you bring up especially about the colonization of black music and the laziness/bastardization of the English language, among a few other points that you brought up. Great job so far and love the different point of views that you have while learning about Bangtan in relation to music, media, etc.

Great react and commentary. I like Elliot research videos on kpop a lot. He has quite a balance view on the industry, acknowledging its downsides but still see the positives and exceptions in it. Actually, he also made a response video to the Cuck Philosophy video you saw. It's called "Why you are wrong about kpop". I think you can check out that video also ☺

Thank you for the reactions! You should definitely look at spring day and the spring day explanation video by Italian Army.

The guy on the horse was Taeyang from Big Bang. He just released a collab with Jimin.

So far, you haven't react to OT7 music to much yet, but funnily enough I don't mind so far. All the videos you have react to have been not only entertaining but enlightening to, and one of the reasons are because of your inside knowledge of the entertainment industry. Looking forward for when you start to include BTS OT7 videos on your rotation to! You good, keep going. 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜🇲🇽🤟

Just watched this - you’re 100% correct regarding American outlook! In Korea, where I live, their interest in me being Black holds more weight because I’m Black from America; cuz when you say Africa or something else, you can literally see the difference in response! You get that American respect, as opposed to being from somewhere else!

Since you asked who is Seventeen they are a 13 member male group who are NOW label mates of BTS under Hybe. They started out with 17 members hence the name but some members left before they debuted. They have 13 members. Two are Korean American, two are Chinese and the remainder are Korean. They self produce and write most of their music. Much of their choreography is also created by one of their members. Their choreography is especially tight considering there are 13 of them dancing as one. I don’t think they dive as deep lyrically as BTS does but their music is good, upbeat, and they are very entertaining. I would check out their songs, Hit, or Home Run, but honestly I think most of their music is good. They have a very fun vibe and like BTS seem like they are a tight knit group. 💜

Yes, Artists … and Artist Collective sounds appropriate to me! 👏🏻💜🥰

I really enjoy your video essay reactions

Thank you for your video I always learn so much from watching them! You are a very intelligent man and I appreciate what you bring to the table. You give an honest opinion on the things you see and hear which I appreciate! Thank you again and I look forward to your next video!

I love Elliott's essays! 🔥💜

thanks for sharing your thoughts on this one. I am newer to your channel with the BTS content - Vintage ARMY here.... or as BTS says "Dope Old ARMY" 😅 Appreciate hearing your perspectives on things and how you are diving in to understanding the context of the BTS story and ARMY as well as the actual music and ART. I get frustrated when US award shows and markets try to leverage the financial influence of fans by making new kpop categories to put BTS in just for the engagement and clout and the "see we recognize them as artists" approach (which we all know is fake) instead of letting the music speak for itself and fit in the general categories within which they should be recognized. Just like how they have done for others, like Latin Pop and such, it's like to me if it is a great R&B track that had a lot of organic engagement (not the fake industry infused engagement by forced radio spins) then it should be considered for an R&B award whether it is pure english or not - if the American consumers are actually consuming it then recognize that and stop gate keeping already. They pick and chose when to welcome a particular artist into a category based on their agenda for the year and not based on what the music actually is or how well it is received by the general public. oh well, between that and world peace I don't know if we'll ever get there... off my soap box now. Anyway, thanks again! Can't wait for the next one. Peace.

Really enjoyed hearing your perspective on this. 💜

The court document you commented on was actually Big Hit winning a defamation suit against those making buy-back accusations against them. 💜 You live in Scotland?? I didn't realize. I absolutely love Scotland ever since I spent a month there back in the 90s (exchange program in Dunfermline/Edinburgh). Happy memories galore (despite ending up in the ER with a sprained knee because apparently high heels, alcohol and a freakin rave fest don't mix well but dang it was fun! 😅). 🤩👍

I don't comment very often on videos and I'm not one to subscribe much either, but I've watched quite a few of your BTS videos at this point and I just wanted to say that I really appreciate all of your videos on them and your open-mindedness while still staying as objective as you can! I also truly appreciate your insight as someone who is involved in and knowledgeable on the music industry (particularly the Western/American music industry). I think it's time to just go ahead and subscribe! :)

Artist collective sounds pretty accurate to me. I personally think kpop is a part of BTS but they have moved on and grown out of it, so I don't consider them kpop. Kind of how TS started out as country, then moved on to stereotypical pop. If I told my kid TS is a country artist she'd probably look at me a bit confused. Country is a part of her history, but when someone says "country artist", her name is not one that comes to mind. BTS broke the mold and does their own thing.

Thank you for the reaction! :) 💜

Holy cow - how have I just now caught that you're living in Scotland?!? What? Why?? I freaking love Scotland (and I also watch 'Still Game' 😂 ) ever since my first visit to Glasgow and west Scotland (I'd move to Arran Island if I had my druthers).... But gosh their accent is so THICK I have the hardest time understanding even though they are speaking English! So good luck to you, and I hope you have a taste for Scotch. I highly recommend Ardbeg Corryvrecken or Ardbeg 10, and Lagavulin 16 for some peaty deliciousness 💜

Older ARMY that can personally attest to how BTS touches the SEOUL :) Epitome of an LEGENDARY "ARTIST COLLECTIVE"💜 Thanks🙏

bts’ hardships is an amazing vídeo would love to hear your take on it!

I loved ur commentary.. And speaking of army's diversity, I am a 28 years old Arab fan of bts 😁

💜🇧🇷 I think it’s nice that you are looking to educate yourself about BTS, giving them a chance. Thanks for that.

When you said Derrick Brooke's reminded me of football hall of fame that played for the Tampa Bay buccaneers

14:00 I think these loose definition are what he (Elliot) is denouncing as exactly what you said: loose or weak, by putting an example right after that contradicts or leaves more room to explain from those "non-definitions" in my opinion ^^ By the way (watching teh MV used in the og video), do you know that RM did a collab with Lil Nas X and released Seoul Town Road (plus performed with all the members at the Grammys)... good ol' days

Thank you! 💜

Gracias! me gusta que tengas sentido critico y sobre todo lógico cuando reaccionas a los videos. Que puedas reconocer a los grandes artistas que conforman BTS pero que tambien puedas decir cuando una idea no esta bien enfocada. Gracias por darte el tiempo de conocer y reconocer a BTS

BTS is a team that expresses themselves in all forms of artistry! I really like your analyses. That is why I subscribed to this channel. Realistic and to the point! 💜💜💜And yes. I like all their ERAS because all of them is their expression of themselves as they were growing up and maturing. 💜💜💜💜

"Han" is complicated. It is a result of Korean history which was glossed over a little in this vid. Korea or in this case South Korea is small and as a result other nations have left their influence known on them: China and Japan but also Russia and the USA to name here. Japan for example conquered Korea around 1910 and onward and what they did to the Koreans was - except maybe for the gas chamber - what the Nazis did to people they thought of as "lesser" or simply "not human". For this exists a rather vague apology by a Japanese politician for - I think - the "comfort women" but it was not really meant as such. Japan tried to erase anything Korean back than: that includes not only the culture but also the language. To call is just along of sadboy emo or whatever is like doing the same to black slavery - not appropiate - at least I think so - but than I'm neither black, American nor Korean. I can't define it. I think there may be a video on what "Han" actually is. It is also interesting that Seoul lays at the Han river but I'm not sure about the connection. I love bby gang mag's video essay but I also have been on his Elliot Sang channel and he spoke once about the videos on bby gang mag and said he would formulate some things differently today. We all grow up and learn new things hopefully. But than this vid was also only meant to lay down the basics and as you said: the issues are more complex than that. But if he went into that he would have taken a lot longer with that side-tangent and - especially for people that do not speak lEnglish as a mother tongue like me - it would have been even more confusing. Seventeen is a 13-member group under PLEDIS - which is also a label HYBE bought. By necessarity they are perhaps the most-selfmade group. Personally I believe their label is perhaps not that good in promotion/finance. But they are one of the top Idol groups today and only a little younger than BTS. HYBE is the coporate part of multiple labels that was created from Big Hit Entertainment in the restructure. If you are interested in that HYBE has briefings on the same channel that also drop all the MVs of their artists. They are actually very interesting. Thank you for watching this and eloberating on some parts. Borahae!

Very interesting discussion, you are so knowledgeable. Like you I hate the lazy misuse of words. I have always felt that BTS didnt in any way fit into Kpop or Idol music. For a start they were not controlled in the way other groups are in Korea have their training controlled, also they mostly write much of their own music. I am one of those older fans, 70. You say you live in Scotland, I dont understand how people there will not realise you are American, accent.!!! Lastly, at the end, isnt your "sadboy shit" the same as singing the blues? Very much enjoyed this

This was very interesting to watch, thank you for sharing your thoughts! I wanted to share something I noticed about "genres" in music and media in general. You were saying that a genre is a genre and it's meaning does not change based on your cultural understanding (sorry if I got that wrong). I like to listen to music in other languages and something I've observed is that the genres are not perceived in the same way all around the world, even when the word used is the same. "Pop" and "Rock" genres especially, seem to vary greatly from country to country based on culture and the ways their music developed throughout the years. I personally ignore any labels/genres when it comes to music from other cultures because it's just beyond me to fully understand the nuances, but a very blatant and easy example for what I'm saying would be pop music from Arab speaking countries. In western countries these songs are often labeled under "ethnic" as a genre, but within their own culture they are "pop" music. I'm in no way an expert, I'm just sharing these thoughts because it interests me and I love listening to music and exploring diversity... Your videos are very stimulating in that regard! 😆

Also, I don't know if anyone has suggested this video, but Elliot (bby gang mag) has another great video essay about BTS called "BTS: More Than K-Pop". It's been a while since I've watched it so I can't say exactly every single thing he talks about in the video, but he goes over why, at the time that BTS debuted (and even up until today, to some extent), they were making music about topics that you would never see any other idol group dare to speak about, for many different reasons. He goes a bit into the historical and cultural reasons as to why BTS was quite revolutionary as an idol group that was actually SAYING something.

20:51 That is Taeyang from BigBang lol 😂 you just reacted to his song featuring Jimin of BTS (probably a week after you reacted to this video essay). The clip is from BigBang’s MV for song Bae Bae, released in 2015.

I am 58 years old, have been ARMY since December 2013! We are of all ages. I have a room dedicated to BTS; pretty sure it is a museum now. K-pop is very xenophobic and maybe somewhat racist. Look at K-pop, there are maybe 3 people who are not Asian or mixed with Asian. You will not see black, white or anything else. (yes, there is a black K-pop singer), but they end up failing due to older Koreans not being acceptive to other races. Would I call K-pop a genre? No I would not as it does not allow anyone other than Asians in it. Therefore I see it more of a term for music that comes out of Korea, not different than J-pop (Japan), and C-pop (China). The term K-pop to me merely lets you know where the music came from. A genre is a category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, characterized by similarities in form, style, or subject matter. K-pop borders a genre but it is not as K-pop does "pop, rap, hip hop, R&B, etc..). Our pop singers in America sing and dance similar to K-pop (Dua Lipa) we do not call them A-pop. Since K-pop does not have its own style of music but uses others and mixes it together - it is not a genre.

Mind you this video was done before BTS did Dynamite, Butter and Permission to Dance. I wonder what are his thoughts now about BTS.

Funny thing with defining BTS as K-Pop with western understanding if K-Pop. Yes, most of their title tracks sound exactly how you'd expect K-Pop song to sound. And here we have B-sides that have only Korean language as a resemblance of K-Pop music. And then they're Dynamite, Butter and Permission to Dance and these songs are fully in English with absolute western Pop sound. And THEN we have BTS Japanese songs (which was originally in Japanese and not Japanese versions of their Korean songs). Like Film Out, Your Eyes Tell, Crystal Snow that have absolute Japanese pop sounding. Like, I grew up with anime and only J-Pop/J-rock in my playlist. Their Japanese singles are classic J-pop, really, when I first listened to them I was shocked how perfect vibe was. And with all of this are BTS just K-Pop? But West puts them into this box again and again.

Im in the hip metal era .. and Im still love with hip metal.. I was in high school back then and there was a one band request me to be hip metal singer and ... alright I'll do it

You have to see the “BTS Paved the Way and why it’s so hard to accept” by Boracity Magazineeee

Darius Rucker the country singer used to also be the lead singer in Hootie and the Blowfish in the rock band genre.

I'd love for u to also check out their docu series sometime! like "break the silence" :) I enjoy your reactions a lot

47:42 no, definitely don’t bother watching this video and videos that are similar to this one cuz mostly all of them are very poorly researched.. and probably made by “K-pop haters” that doing these videos for clicks

Just like in Japan Jpop covers everything from pop to R&B to heavy metal. kpop is a varied thing anyway but ultimately don't agree they're kpop as such. Seems too narrow somehow. He's right though it really doesn't matter the genre

You are correct Pop music is really Popular Music that's what it stands for so any genre of music that is extremely popular at any point in time is by definition Pop Music. However as you say the words have be bastardised.

20:50 you should recognize him by now, Taeyang again xD (he didn't have the tattoos yet) :P (not to be confused with any BTS member, he's the one that sings that recent release Vibe with Jimin -- who is YES a BTS member)

the thing I always say is, "BTS is a K-Pop group, but K-Pop is not BTS."

I kind of see BTS and Hybe as the next step in the evolution of the Kpop Industry. They took elements from it and improved on it/changed things. I mean what other Kpop company has the tagline/mission statement of 'Music and Artists for healing'. What other Kpop industry gives as much freedom to it's Artists at Hybe?

I like the term Artist Collective 👍

Artist collective is very close. Ultimately, I just don’t think they neatly fit into any category. I have never seen anything like it and that’s really exciting. They do group and solo work and support each other fully in both.

Yes, BTS is an Artists collective.

"im so happy stevie blind." 😭😭😭

Were you talking about Charlie Pride, the country singer?

Vídeo corretíssimo, pontos muito bem explicados. Agora falando por mim mesma, sim, BTS faz parte do K-pop, eles são idols, eles entram no "formato" do que é fazer música dentro da indústria, com todo lance de Comebacks, e a maquiagem, moda, treino de dança, music banks, shows de variedades e etc; e eles nunca soaram como se não fosse assim, como se, por não fazer parte da Big3 e crescer como artistas independentes numa indústria de gigantes, eles não fossem mais "Kpop. A questão é, a própria indústria faz essa associação muitas vezes, quando é conveniente. "BTS conseguiu 6 billboards, logo são 6 billboards no mundo do Kpop, BTS foi indicado ao grammy 3 vezes.. Mas não ficaria melhor.. um artista de Kpop foi indicado ao Grammy 3 vezes..?", se entende o que quero dizer. Eu implico com a categorização Kpop, não por conta da maneira como eles fazem música ou gênero de forma geral, eu acho que isso é algo fadado a mudar a partir de certo tempo, o que me irrita é, a mídia e kppopers separando BTS e os sabotando durante toda porra da carreira deles, fazendo petições ridículas em premiações nacionais, os excluindo a cada mínima oportunidade, e quando chegamos no cenário mundial, de repente, BTS passou a carregar a indústria de Kpop nas costas? Enfim, Kpop tem muitos pontos positivos como indústria, mas de modo geral, o público de fora ressaltará os negativos, e olhará para BTS como se eles fossem o espelho de tudo isso. E nesse momento a indústria não se importará em fazer uma separação. Concluindo: Quando falamos de definição de gênero, BTS é um dos pioneiros e está fazendo essa mudança acontecer, e isso irá beneficiar outros artistas da indústria como um todo. Quando falamos do Kpop como indústria, é quando vem a questão, BTS quer continuar a ser associado a isso? Pra mim, esse é o ponto principal.

Warren G was so good to them

You should be a professor. Actually you are. You KNOW your "Stuff".

You should watch some of the explained videos of BTS songs.

Vintage ARMY 👋💜

Yes! I was thinking the same thing about their definition of genre but your explanation was worded perfectly! You should react to Seo Taiji and Boys Come Back Home. It's JK sleeping on the bed. V's actully sleeping up top with eye covers on but he's buried in this picture. That cache comes from you being the embodiment of and having grown up around the origins of Hip Hop. That cache would not be afforded to me, a 30+ white woman from the mid west (who definitely can't rap although I love it).

13:45 Darius Rucker? Maybe? He was in Hootie and the Blowfish? 20:50 I think that Taeyang from BigBang hahaha 27:35 Yuppppp I remember Making the Band hahahah

youre saying the definitions are lazy when what you say is exactly what they mean. tyler thr creator can create a pop album but because his percsived identity and target market is usually hiphop, the grammys labelled that album hiphop. they do this to keep black artists out of main categories. thats exactly the point being made here.

The thing is if you discuss this topic this in depth of course you come to a conclusion like this which makes sense and is based on facts and logic. Its just frustrating the see BTS personal achievements be used to say look at how successful KPop is as a whole. But when it comes to competition within kpop, suddenly "BTS is just another group and everybody is successful so they are not special" and stuff like that. If you want more about data could really recommend Boracity Magazine videos about the next BTS and BTS paved the way. And the whole Genre Thing: I don't really personally like using it as a genre talk in a normal conversation about them, simply because of I play somebody my top Like 20 favorite BTS Song all of them will be very different and I have a hard time Then saying they are all the same genre. But this applies mostly at in person situation where I Talk with non-fans or casual listeners Edit: i hate it when I have to go back correct basically my entire comment because my keyboard doesn't like the english language and their way of spelling Things🥲

I personally don’t consider bts kpop for the simple reason that the general public doesn’t take kpop seriously. You mention kpop and everybody already has a certain image and expectation in their head. Fake, manufactured, pop, not musically involved etc. and those things just don’t fit bts. It may be true for some of kpop but not ALL of kpop. Plus ppl love to use the kpop label to put them in a box and separate them from the rest of the industry so they don’t have to take them seriously. I think a good example is when you got into them and didn’t know if rm was an idol or a rapper. 2 different expectations with those titles. I’ve gotten into so many arguments with ppl about bts because they think the image they have of kpop applies to bts. Ppl ask me about them I say they’re just artists like anyone else. I’ve been been binge watching your videos since yesterday btw lmaooo. Mostly a silent viewer but I really enjoy your content

I consider BTS as part of kpop industry (however, they were elevated beyond said industry already years ago), cause that is where they grew from. But they have never been a kpop group in its "traditional" meaning. It is complicated, therefore, many of ARMYs just call their music as "BTS genre", since they quite literally just don't fit ANYWHERE. P.S.: the weirdest shit is when the first Agust D album, which is strictly heavy hip-hop and rap, was categorized as kpop and pop on all western platforms... like, that's just xenophobia at that point 🥴

32:45

one thing i keep thinking is how many kpop groups don´t have the same freedom as bts has. it´s robots basically with no say in what they to put out. and i think it´s wrong for fans to like that. and even if they dont agree and still choose to support it. if fans of these idols want them to have more freedom why not show it by not buying albums or trend the hashtags to the label. i mean army managed to fight the industry so fighting the labels is also possible. but i guess the label will just just pretend the idols do write songs to keep fans happy. the label also get 70 % of the earnings of a kpop group. and compared to how hard they actually, it is a slave contract. in the US idk how it is but i am sure the artist get way more than that. and remember that the last 30 % is split by all the members. so they really don´t earn much. well BTS does now because they are so popular. but they didn´t earn money before 5 years or so after debut. and they also earn money fro copyrights on songs they helped write. so even if they quit tomorrow they will still earn money from that. and each member was also given shares at Hybe from their CEO. and there is nothing more fulfilling than be praised by your own work and not someone elses. i think that is the reason why BTS is still together. and they also love each other or else they could have gone solo by now. i think that if they allow idols more power they will loose controle of them.

I agree, I view bts as a collective

You’re in Scotland? Where are you located and what takes your to my homeland?

Never heard of that group either!

32:20. 36:58

You should watch BTS hardship from XCeleste too