An Extremely Basic League-By-League Manon Guide 

Can you make a similar guide for Ed? This was really helpful for having a plan to work with when learning Manon

@reb349 Is there actually not another Ed guide out there that'd be as easy to follow? (I'd kinda have to relearn him for a while to make one. Akuma kinda deleted Ed stuff from my brain.)

@@NAM_137 i've seen a short overview video that goes through like most important buttons and some basic combos. Enough for me to get started with but I just really liked your layered learning plan approach with this one. If you can't make one, don't worry!

@reb349 what rank are you and what do you already know? I can either just answer you here or you can hop in my discord (link in every description) and I can just play with/teach you directly.

Appreciate it. Glad to know my choice of sticking with ONE actionable thing per rank was a good choice.

Hell yeah, happy to help. Funny thing, I guess, is that if I ever bother making guides for other characters I can kinda just repackage everything I said in this, up to Platinum, for them.

@@NAM_137makes sense. But quick question. I think beginners (or at least me) feel pressured to learn combos because winning neutral only gets you two medium punches worth of damage, and it feels like you’re not dealing enough damage per neutral win to win the round. Manon has her medals that give her the necessary damage, but if you did a guide for a more neutral based character, do you think they should learn combos earlier on to have a good enough damage output? Or do I have a wrong perspective about something and the amount of neutral wins you get from playing solid makes up for that?

@Talol-sandwich42 certainly making each neutral win really count is important, but particularly in lower ranks you're generally dying because you couldn't deal with jump-ins, cross-ups, lows, overheads, or just not blocking at all, rather than because you didn't squeeze every bit of damage out of that DP punish. In other words, yes, you can kill or be killed from 60% HP, but in low ranks, neither player generally has that execution, and even in real "checkmate" scenarios, you aren't losing to the checkmate so much as you are losing to everything leading up to it. That's part of the reason I included the one button round. I wasn't getting enormous damage off any of those interactions. I just played slow and solid, let them make their mistakes, and poked them to death.

@@NAM_137gotcha, thanks for the response

It also just tilts the absolute shit out of people and makes them try even dumber things.

Only like 3 hours from starting to record it to being done editing, but about 300 hours of gameplay to feel confident enough to teach this stuff and think it's useful for anyone to learn from me.

Similarly approx 200hrs playing, and mostly with Manon in Plat 4. But I started to just get tired and it felt like big effort to keep trying to push forward so I'd been trying other characters for the last month or so. Think I wanna get back to her now after this vid.

Lemme know if you need any specific help, cause I'm still trying to convince myself to make a follow-up to this with some less important but still helpful stuff in it.

@@NAM_137 Thanks! The eye opening thing for me so far is in the Plat combo where you talk about buffering the DR cancel and fishing for counter hits. Not sure if there's much to elaborate on that or not, but I think I've been doing it wrong, haha.

Yeah, that's just footsies 101. It's crazy easy to confirm off buffered DR, or to sort of un-confirm and quickly pivot to command grab if you realize they blocked.

Maybe if I really click with Ed I'll do one for him down the line. I can't do one for Zangief because I really don't like playing him, and it would really be "Wait for them to do something stupid and SPD it."

@@NAM_137 that is great news because he seems like a character that interests me. Hopefully you will make one when he releases.

Definitely wouldn't be till way down the line. I wouldn't feel right doing any kind of teaching until I hit Master at a minimum, which will probably take a long while for me as someone who primarily plays grapplers.

It was one of the only ones where I actually committed to the one-button handicap, and I still managed to fuck it up, lol.

Just block and try for perfect parries if you're feeling fancy.

Nice. Dunno if I'm much higher than that, myself, since last I checked I think I have just over 2000 games played in total.

Appreciate it. Anything at all you feel I could've done better, or shown a different thing entirely?

@@NAM_137(Sorry if my sentences are a bit convoluted, but english is not my first language.) Hi! The only thing I really miss in the guides, and it happens very often, is to have a clear notation for some combos. From my point of view, event if I watched for the Plat to Diamond segment, I find that this kind of guide is the perfect introduction to a character. It doesen't defeat the purpouse of a longer one who explains the character in finer details, but it gives very focused building block that allow to get more in depth in a second moment, also promoting player style and expression in my opinion (I.e. you describe how to get the most from the medal system, a thing that watching Idomz for a long time for example gets a little left behind). So yeah, it helped me a lot on reflecting on what tools of the character I neglected at lower ranks, and it's affecting my gameplay now. It would be lovely in the future to see videos that expand on specific segments, but I feel this stile of guide is very much needed.

Hey, thanks for actually answering my question. Most people don't have a meaningful response to "what could I have done better?" Also your English is great. Combo notation is usually difficult for me to remember to include, so that I can definitely work on fixing if/when I make any future guides. I did at least slow the footage down in the other Manon guide I made, for the one big combo I showed in that, but I still don't think I put in the real notation. For me, it helps a lot more to just see the combo being done, than looking at a string of inputs that won't convey what the delays wind up being anyways.

Yes. This is why I did exactly the demo I did, showing that all they have to do is block for you to get smoked. But as you said in your other comment, you need to represent the option sometimes. Not always, but definitely not never, either.

Hey thanks! I doubt that's actually true, but are there any specific reasons you prefer mine to others you've seen? Especially helpful if you can also call to mind anything mine is lacking, or could've explained better.

Let me know how it goes, and if you think of any follow-up questions.

@@NAM_137 Just got to silver1. It's rough since it's my first fighting game but I'm getting there. The tutorial did help a lot though so thanks king

Ayy congrats! Grappler life is a struggle. Hope you like being backed into the corner all the time.

Yeah it turns out literally everyone that's any kind of good is doing "cheap scrubby bullshit" all game every game. To quote Juri from World Tour without looking up the exact line: "Find out what your opponent hates, and do that over, and over."

I need to make a supplemental guide to this one as well, with some easy-to-implement matchup-specific gimmicks.

@@NAM_137 Oh that would be amazing too, i always get wrecked by Kimberly players haha thanks again for the video

Appreciate it. Let me know if you find anything I left out that'd be helpful.

I learned to play fighting games on an arcade stick, but switched to leverless when I started getting good at playing Potemkin in Strive. There are certain inputs I don't think I could get my hands to do quick enough on a stick that are just easy on leverless for me. Plus, I find it to be far more precise, since it's basically impossible for me to overshoot motion inputs.

Happy to help, and let me know if you stumble upon anything that you feel is working for you that I didn't cover.

Let me know how it goes implementing literally any part of this stuff.

Get those drive rush cancels down.

Trust that I'm not offended, but what caused the eye rolling? Also progress requires failure. Get hyped for yourself for even trying new stuff!

@@NAM_137 I thought I was not making the mistakes you were talking about in the rookie and iron rank but I totally was. This is gonna sound stupid but as a new player I underestimated the importance of blocking. And I thought I wasn’t using a bunch of special moves until I stopped using special moves and realized it was all I was doing. I also didn’t think it was possible to win with just MP but when the other player is just pushing buttons and not blocking it is!

@Ryan-go9wc damn that's some good self-reflection. You're gonna be great, soon.

Ayy, not worthless, let's go! Let me know if you have other questions, cause I know I left out a ton of stuff, and I already kinda wanna make a supplemental addendum video.

@@NAM_137 My main weakness is what to do when backed up against the wall besides counter super, and what to do when you have someone backed against the wall. I guess other stuff can be labbed, like which low attacks transition into what combo starters/rushes

[Whispers] Dude I literally forget how to play the videogame when I get a burnout stun. I still don't know her proper stun combo. I only very recently realized you can do 5MP xx DI to try and go for a stun in the first place. When your back is against the wall, just look for greedy DIs. Grapplers kinda always get bullied into the corner, so you just gotta get cozy with it.

@@NAM_137 I'll tell you what I picked up from this vid. DI punish, parrying, wake up overhead, the importance of the rush combo and mixing it up.

Excellent. Don't let anyone tell you vacuum TC into command grab doesn't work past X or Y rank, either. It only doesn't work if you haven't convinced them they'll die if they don't block.

I should not. The entire point of this one is that there are just super easy to implement tips, and only one of each. There's a follow-up, which is the only other video on my channel with "Manon Guide" in the title, but even that is just a bunch of gimmicks rather than more in-depth basics. There is definitely such a thing as giving too much information and overwhelming people with it. I want to avoid that as much as possible.

Mavercade KeebBrawler-01 with Kailh Sunset switches that I bought separately. It took me a while when I was learning Potemkin to wrap my head around leverless, but it was super worth it.

@@NAM_137Noted, thanks!!

Yes. That's why I did exactly the demo I did. You can't do it all the time because you'll just die. You also can't just NEVER represent the option. The correct frequency is somewhere between never and always.

It doesn't work anymore. They made it so the 4MK target combo bounces on juggle, so the optimal thing there is something else now.

@@NAM_137 rip, i was thinking maybe doing the combo after drive impact but your bar would be super low, any idea what i should do instead?

For simplicity, just do 4HP > 236LP with the same dash timing as the 4MK TC. I'm certain there's something better, but easy is better than dropping stuff.

Every character does. Just not made by me. And unfortunately I don't feel confident enough in my Ed or Akuma lately to make ones for them.

@@NAM_137 No worries lol I didn't mean it like you should feel obligated :P. Any channels you'd recommend? I haven't seen any other guides that tell you to focus on only a few things, then a couple more, and so on. Even beginner ones seem like they expect you to know how to lab stuff and teach a lot at once for a newbie.

Sajam has at the very least a quick character overview for everyone, as well as edited stream VODs of him taking them all to Master. I know Diaphone made a Kimberly guide, Broski is making THE Aki guide, Nezs (or Nesz, I can't remember) has a lot of good Ed stuff, same for Brian F. Punk also made a general guide to playing neutral a little while back. And again, Sajam has a ton of videos about more general fighting game concepts like that.

To my knowledge there's not a single mod that isn't some kind of cheating program that'll affect anyone else's gameplay. Install all the audio/visual mods you want. Note: this is true so far, but Capcom could obviously start going after everyone at a moment's notice any time they decide they want to.

Let me know how that climb goes, and if any specific things in this guide helped.

Lemme know if you feel I missed anything HUGE along the way.

@@NAM_137 manon's thighs? No i dont

Based

Hit medium kick instead of light. And heavy is the overhead. If you're playing modern, stop doing that and play her on classic. She gains basically nothing and loses A TON from modern.

NexusMods

Like a guide for specifically what to do in Master? That's above me, really. I'm only 1400-ish

Skill issue. Be better than that. I know you can.

That's cool. Higher than me. Keep at it. Or don't. Kinda sounds like you're miserable. Maybe quit.

Counterpoint: there are higher rated Manon players than you, so you haven't maxed out the character. Get better, and get out of my comments with that whining.

Either get a new controller, or clean up your inputs. The controller is almost never going to be the reason any given player is losing. Do the inputs as slow as you possibly can to still have the moves come out, then let speed come over time. To steal a thing from Disc Golf: Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

I bought the fighting commander specifically for SF6 (I haven't even played one match online, only against the cpu). In other fighting games I've never struggled just getting a special move out; I have no problems dishing out combos with 10+ hits with multiple special moves in MK1 for example. I also find the timing for combos in SF6 really weird: from DR crouching medium punch to back heavy punch you have to basically delay the heavy (if you do it when the first one hits, it just doesn'tcome out), but then stress out the cancel into medium hit grab (if you miss that window by the smallest fraction you still get the move out but the combo will be broken and the opponent can block the throw)

There are a ton of things where you have to treat certain cancels as one big input. Example for Manon: Cancelling her 236HK into SA3 you should treat as 236HK236P If you try to do 236HK 236236P, you'll most likely drop it. You just have to get used to each fighting game individually. Coming from Strive to SF6, not a lot of the muscle memory was super beneficial to me, as far as combos are concerned, but my fundamentals carried me through the growing pains.

And then I get floored in all placement matches by people spamming the same moves over and over and over and I cannot so even one thing. If I block, there are no combos to go to. It's just like standing medium punch, but what does that go into that I can do on (slow) reaction to a hit?

If you got beat by spam, you were spamming a mistake. Sit back and block. There's a reason I included the example game of me poking my friend to death, with no combos at all. Also if you're not playing in ranked, you should. Every other mode is pretty much guaranteed to give you mismatches with killers.

simple flowchart: if actionable, do specials. Just pick any special; do random ones so they don't know which ones are coming. They're harder to do because they're better. You win by doing more better things more often

Look up Manon Shermie. At the time of making this, it was only available for her costume 1 slot, and has since been ported over to slot 2 as well.

@@NAM_137 alright, thanks my g

Query: "they ate"? What does that mean? I actually don't understand it.

@@NAM_137just means it looks awesome.