An Honest Look At Forza Motorsport... 

Motorsport 4 was, and still is, the best Forza Motorsport to date, and every one since then for me has been striving to beat FM4 and has failed every time. FM7 came close, all it needed was a better mutliplayer lobby set up and it was golden. (Back in FM3 and FM4 you could make open custom lobbies and do whatever, you could even make a closed custom lobby just to play around, but now you can't make a custom lobby at all unless you have a friend in your lobby beforehand. Not to mention, custom public lobbies are all removed, so no fun stuff. I also miss A Class Tag, which I guess by newer games PI would be B Class now.)

Plus if you wanted to, you could play individual events in the Events List if you don't want to do it in the order they want, you had that option to do it at your own leisure and that was probably one of the more enjoyable things in the entire Forza franchise

​@@DaysofKnightcouldn't agree with you anymore!

​@@DaysofKnightI have been screaming from the bleachers for years for them to bring back the old multi-player setup. What a shame they haven't done it :(

I knew I'd played Forza Motorsport game with an affinity system like that I couldn't remember which one until I saw this comment

They don't recycle cars from the XBO-era games for paid DLC. We'll see those added as the weekly event rewards

@@Elit3NickI think it’s more of a cars we already should’ve had will finally be added issue. For example, there’s no reason there’s no Ferrari 488 gt3 car at launch. But they’ll likely add one in an update and the 296 gt3 will be the paid DLC if we get one at all.

@@jamesharden3timedpoy466 I have doubts we'll see the 296 GT3 anytime soon with FIA GT licensing

@@Elit3Nick I’m not sure about all the licenses but I know forza is partnered with IMSA and there’s a 296 GTD car. Since other GTD IMSA cars like the Audi R8 and Acura NSX are there I hope there’s a 296 gt3 style car at any point in the game.

@@jamesharden3timedpoy466 partnering with an organization and acquiring permission to use the cars in the game are 2 completely different things bud just because they partnered with IMSA doesn't mean anything however the only thing they gained from that are the new prototype cars but the FIA do have a lot of sway in things such as F1 and WRC which is why you don't see newer F1 cars but ultimately the manufactures still have the final say on the cars themselves given the obvious reasons

Some of the old surface and curbing still exists, but I wouldn't call it raceable with a huge gravel trap and barriers blocking the way. I'm curious to see how it looks in-game, whether it's an authentic vintage version of the track or a sort of fantasy layout set in the current day. I'll try to find some gameplay to find out for sure. edit: It's the latter.

@@nathanstroud2223 Now that is disappointing. It obviously would have been a lot more work to rebuild the environment to match the historic layout, but it would have been such a great way to embrace some of the history of motorsports, and share some of that story and evolution, particularly with such a prestigious track. Just another example of how T10 has completely flubbed this relaunch of a once great series. It's such a shame, they took so long to release this, and made it sound like they put in a great deal of effort, only to spent all that time on effort making the wrong decisions.

@@nathanstroud2223it’s sick hope we get some old Indy cars to run at the track, maybe a march or Buick from the mid 80s or a Reynard from the 90s

It absolutely Does Not still exist.

​@@IntrepidRacer13gt 1-4 has the OG track layout so would've been super easy to do.

Then you have the knob gobblers that say this progression system feels so rewarding. No, it feels like a waste of fucking time. I installed the game, played a couple hours, and uninstalled the game. I'm just glad I didn't waste any money on this pile of shit.

We can say same for gran turismo. I mean it is ok to do new things but when older game has a better features and campaign then new games then you know you fucked up.

Nobody asked for the FM3 career mode either, but the devs still made it.

​@@evandaymon8303 Literally the entire GT community: We want a large fleshed out single player mode with free-form progression like in GT3 & GT4 Polyphony Digital: *_"WUZZAT!? YOU WANT A LINEAR SET OF SINGLE PLAYER RACES?"_*

@@1mariomaniac dont forget this too community: we also want better payouts and improve the custom races and new tracks. Pd: Ah you want 3/4 or 6 or whatever many cars instead as well as events that barely payout well and changes to legend car dealership prices?

I like how you put the cart before the horse here lol. He's just got the idea from forza 4 not the other way around.

@@mervunit admittedly I jumped the gun with my comment as soon as I heard Alex's suggestion I was like the meme with the guy pointing lol

Project Gotham Racing was such a good series, a rebooted version of PGR4 would absolutely rock!

Pgr2 good memories. Great game. KUDOS

PGR3/4 and FM3/4 was my favorite 360 games for sure

I'm keeping a keen eye on 360 emulation for those 4 games exclusively haha. Getting to re-enjoy PGR3/4 and FM3/4 all over again is all I really want nowadays.@@MrZyLeXx

You know why PGR was so good? The same people who worked on that also ended up working on some older Forza titles as well. Because those people actually cared!!!

honestly i think it’s all gamepass necessitating constant engagement bc of its monthly payment model

Late-stage capitalism is killing everything. Video games are hardly very important in the grand scheme, but we see it here too. It's not enough to make a great and complete game, sell it at $60, sell millions of copies, and make a handsome profit. They have to try to leverage every single trick they can to squeeze every single cent out of it, and really every single cent out of 10% of the player base that are going to pay for lots of things that should have been in the game at launch, all to make corporate profits in total 2% higher. I don't think I'm buying this game until it is at least 60% off.

I share the same sentiment. While in FH5 the skills per car was something to unlock rather quickly as we get points for everything. In game that is more on a sim side I miss the days where upgrades were just bought with common credits earn in game by completing races. Per car upgrades seems like a grind.

Stephanie Sterling put it best, they don't just want "some money", they want all of the money all of the time. @@MrChristopher0us

Per people making the decisions at T10 it was done to address the complaints people had of various cars being so much better than other cars in class racing even though this does nothing to actually address said issue.

I miss Fujimi Kaido, I never played FM4, but I loved building A-B class cars to race my friends on the mountain. I'm also disappointed that the most expensive cars are ~400k Cr... In FM3 the cost of some cars were insane, from 1-10 million credits if I remember right. I remember throwing a 4 rotor in an RX8 which put it in R3 class and beating a Bugatti Veyron in a drag race for a fraction of the cost. This might be an unpopular opinion, but I actually like the car upgrade system in FM8, 2-3 hours for level 50 doesn't even sound that bad, in maybe 400 hours of FH5 I spent a good majority of that in the MR2 SC turning it into the ultimate A class Volcano weapon.

@@Ikaros--- Fujimi Kaido was the best track. Wish they bring it back one day.

fujimi kaido was awensome and really hope they bring something like it [ fictional mountain track with a big variety of different curves/corners ] to new forza motorsport

imo this game doent even look that pretty, its so flat

Does it look pretty though?

Grid is mostly street curcuits and got boring

I wouldn't even mind if it's still for the 1 car, just get rid of the car level lock

​@@damianclum2066IT'S JUST ONE CAR. How difficult is it for devs to do this? Just one car 😭.

nope. both are stupid.

Unfortunately it clashes with the game having over 500 cars at launch

Same for me. The concerns I had over it are why I'm not buying it at launch but instead giving it a month on GamePass, then deciding whether to buy it. I've seen others wash over it saying "See how easy and quick it is" while ignoring that it's only the first few levels, so of course it's easy and quick. I wonder how many of these folks will change their minds once the novelty of a new game passes. I seem to remember similar reactions to homologation in FM7 until reality came a knocking.

​@@Elwaves2925the first few levels thing, already saw leveling guides, they're dumb, but appears to be no xp scaling, level 2 and level 50 take about a lap on monza

People are gonna have to wait and play for themselves instead of simply repeating what others say.

@@Sim-sq2hu Oh okay, that might make it better then. I'll find out for myself in a few days. Cheers. 🙂

FM4 had the manufacturer affinity too, no idea why they're so opposed to sticking with what works

If it's online only then I'm out. There is no reason for the game to require online unless it's multiplayer only. It doesn't even look as good as Horizon 5.

Constant player engagement of being pissed off

Yeah, modern AAA games are all about chasing metrics to show investors, instead of making it fun

@@Dark-qx8rk you legit are making a very idiotic move by comparing FH5 to this because they're 2 completely different styles of racing game

@@theunhingedgamer3762 You sure about that? Cause the only difference I've seen in this video is water making things more slippery than in Horizon and the courses looking ungodly bland.

not sure where you've been looking but plenty of people have complained about how easy Forza is to grind and that same set of people are now complaining because they got what they wanted with this game in particular

@@theunhingedgamer3762 Yeah I’m aware. The section of people who complain about the typical forza progression are simply put just anti-wheelspin, giving cars too early, and give us slower starter cars. Along with the issues in the PI system, meta cars, even auto upgrades and homologation. It seems like they tried to solve those issues with this system that no one wanted hence the backlash.

@@theunhingedgamer3762 That is only partialy true, almost everybody complained about how easily you obtain cars in Forza, but nobody wanted system like this.

@@theunhingedgamer3762 The issue isn't that recent Forza games were too easy to grind. It was that everything was getting thrown at you. Even that said this is not why T10 added this upgrade system. T10 added this upgrade system to address the complaints of unbalanced cars that dominated class racing. That is per T10's own heads of departments.

Replying to what you say about them not replicating the older games, it’s because they don’t need to. They will get insane amounts of money and insane amounts of players because of Game Pass/blind fans who just need something new. All they need is to do is the bare minimum and they make a shit-ton of money, and investors are happy.

Nope FM4. Ya nailed it spot on. God that was a holy grail in the series

You didn’t even need to max them. Just hit level 4

@@UriaLordOfSearingFlames exactly. And that was easy

Good memories

Just a doomer-baiting thumbnail. Other reviews like Hoki's definitely seem less downer.

Get the players on at first, they try to tough out the grind for a while. Rack up a ton of playtime initially. You present those numbers to investors. Get a bunch of money sent your way. The players give up on this game. You shove it into a corner and let Horizon 5 maintain franchise popularity.

Extreme amount of play-time, making the game look good from the outside

​@@bolbyballingeri doubt FH5 can maintain the franchise popularity at this point. PGG and Microsoft Studios have under-delivered in terms of long term playability. Everything is so cut and paste with no creativity and thouht put into championships. There are types of cars basically ignored. Even the series themes are neutered. Italian Automotive was sad (you reintroduce Lancia to Forza and they get a crappy trial with 10 PI to upgrade cars). For a few series, the PR stunts were S2 anything goes, regardless of series theme. I don't know how many big channels or (relatively) large streamers make this their main game (I'm a very small streamer and I'm moving away from it as it no longer brings in much in terms of views and followers, and bigger streamers than me I interact with have been moving away from it more). If FM fails, this could be the end of Forza in it's entirety. I have been holding on with FH5 for the last few months only knowing Motorsport is being released soon (in getting it on Game Pass, so October 10 for me) because I enjoy driving games. I'm ready to see if I can find TDU on Game Pass to give it a go before committing money to it if FM is really going to be as bad with progression and career mode as it looks.

The idea behind the upgrade system is actually quite good. But I think it's just badly implemented. It might be fun at the beginning. But I think it quickly becomes boring to grind each car individually.

I mean it's free on gamepass so you didn't have to buy it anyway.

@@mervunit Why to people keep giving a pass to gamepass? It's a cope of all copes. And no, it's not free, never was.

On gamepass, otherwise i wouldn't buy it either

Let s stop comparing masterpieces with average new games, especially in career progression terms.

I'm waiting for a Motorsport that's as good as, or better than, Motorsport 4. FM4 in my opinion was, and still is, the *best* Forza Motorsport to date

We probably never will

Will never happen. Gaming has taken the DLC / season pass route and it has killed everything

I (very) sadly doubt it. Unless this truly bombs and teaches them a lesson about how they need to make an actually good game again.

Back to ACC

Their philosophy of getting rid of the “boring/quirky” cars didn’t really work out that well, AND got rid of a shit-ton of actually good cars.

They will only listen to the big streamer who all say they like it..

In how many circumstances it would make the diference in t he first couple of hours? I mean, until you learn the car and learn 2-3 tracks you have grinded quite a bit, right? Or is there another problem i miss?

While I haven't played this game and won't buy it either, you are 100% right. The main reason I enjoy forza was always the huge variety of cars combined with the PI system so everything could stay somewhat competitive. I remember bringing my own homebrewed cars in Forza 4 and beating many other players using top "meta" cars. It was a blast, you had the David vs Goliath feeling. I did spend hours fine-tuning the right upgrades for specific tracks and also tuning to shave off every millisecond possible from my lap times. That wasn't grind, that was fun and my competitive nature to always improve that made me do it. The you saw other people doing the same and they earned my respect. That was what made forza so fun for me back in the day. Looks like they completely ditched that aspect, for no reason really, what a shame.

you know that nothing about a race car is for cosmetic purposes aside from the livery right? It's not car show tilty wheel simulator like horizon, it's a racing game. I get it's not for everybody and they kinda screwed up by giving horizon the same forza name.

I think its GT7 that has made it this way, they screwed the pooch so badly forza can get away with something such as this and let it still be less time to get a Le Mans Car

@@kyonbrace5487 No. It is Forza/T10 trying to address complaints from players of unbalanced cars. The proper answer to fix said problem is a better working PI system. Turn 10's answer is this even though it doesn't address the actual problem at all.

I think a part that you're missing is that if u already have a MX5 that you've upgraded and like in say A class and you wanna make one for B class, you have to start all over again no CP or Car level gets sent over to the other MX5, this is actually just insanity.

Maybe if your focus is just leveling cars instead of you know...what the game is made for... racing...

@@mervunit Alright. Let's say the game has 800 cars. If you play 3 hours a day, getting every car to the point where it is usable in events will take TWO YEARS. If you see an event you want to participate in, you need to buy AND level the car first, by which time the event might well be over. We reach a point where everyone will just have 1-5 focus vehicles that they grind, ignoring the entire rest of the game, and being able to participate in maybe 5% of the overall events. This is absurd.

@@sandwitch1613 why would i want every car in the game let alone to level up every car in the game. If I did why would i complain that the game is giving me two years of things to do?

@@mervunit I play Horizon 5 and one of my goals was always to own every single car in the game in order to be able to participate in every event that comes my way. If you're happy with 5 or 10 cars, that's good for you, but then isn't it a bit of a waste to only use a few cars in a game with hundreds? The time scope is also personal preference; I don't want to wait years just to get access to all of the game's features, so to speak.

Man I wish PGR would come back but I doubt it'll with Bizarre Creations not existing anymore and with Forza popularity.

Hey, do you know where to download the FM7?

yea it at least looks like FM has a rotating list of different series that come into the single player experience. Also there's class races where you can just race in that class just not E class. GT7 they released a new car I think it was the Beat that I really wanted to race it but there was absolutely no races it would qualify for. Like why release the car and then not have a way to race it?

GT7? Hah, even the first Gran Turismo's career mode feels better.

@@STRIDER_503 Agreed. Honestly the worst part of it, for me, is how restrictive the game is with the events it has, too. In previous mainline GT games, events like the FF, FR, and 4WD-specific races were a small-is slice of the event total, and there were fewer racecar-specific events that DIDN'T just let you build your own monstrosity to take the race cars down. The vast majority of GT7's events, on the other hand, restrict you to cars from a certain region or of a certain design or origin. A lot of the appeal of older GTs is taking one car and being able to do a metric fuckton of different things with it. This was often to the point of comedy, but being able to bring an 88C-V to a road car event is better than searching to find ANY events for it to race in. GT7 misses out on that both due to the short length of the career and due to the lack of event variety and freedom of car choice from event to event. With the exception of the Brickyard, Monaco, and the Top Gear Test Track, there are no real-life circuits in GT5 that don't exist in GT7 in some form. Then there's all the ones that have been added in since, like Spa, Goodwood, and Brands Hatch. THEN there are the added fictional venues of Maggiore, Sardegna Road. If they could just copy-paste GT5's career into GT7 with minor adjustments (AI improvements, proper grid starts) that'd have been enough to wipe Forza off the face of the Earth, given the crazy depth of the customization system.

So true.i feell it's because everything is focused on online multiplier nowadays.

Exactly, sounds great. Like Grid 3.

Yeah in 6 years

@@andrettransformer true... maybe a better late than never scenario hopefully

All us fans have been doing for the past 6 years is telling them how to make a better game, yet they just don’t care to listen

Its micro$oft I wouldn't bet on them fixing anything. F1 had to do vr mode because fans protested and said they would not buy a new f1 game that didn't have a vr mode so the dev were forced to do it. Thats the only way you'll stop game development from milking games is to protest and effect their profits. Why can't forza and other race sims 3d scan race tracks now? I racing has done this for almost a decade now. Can't really claim to be race sims if you can't do basics like 3d scanning tracks. Its the simplest way to make race tracks and make them true with all the bumps and what not of the real tracks

Yeah, what a great idea. Make everyone buy the next game to get things we asked for in this game... 🙄

And lock the classes in career behind progression the FH5 Hot Wheels DLC so start in E and work up so you still start with slower cars

Nobody cares about career modes. Play gran turismo for that. Not being a dick but idk why anyone expected them to make a good career when the starter car is a 500hp car

@@unrealmagic6519 Speak for yourself, it's basically the only reason why I play the Forza games (same for GT and most racing games). I know a lot of people mainly play it for online racing, but I don'[t care about that as it only makes me angry when some idiot rams me of the road. Been there, done that, I am done with racing online in these games. To be fair I have dabbled in some online races with the Horizon games the last couple of years, but not a lot as it's not something I am really looking for. So the main reason why I play these is to go through career mode and to collect cars. I get plenty of time and enjoyment out of that typically, but this is probably going to first Forza game (with the exception of the first Horizon) where I am not going to get even close to 100 hours. FM5 might have been a little less as well because I really didn't like that one that much either (don't remember why). And yes, they are going to add more events, but they have worked on it for 6 years, I would assume them to deliver a finished product instead of a free to play style game while charging for it.

go play horizon if that's what you want to do. that game already exists and is boring.

@@mervunit I find the "stupid" cars tend to be some of the most fun to race. FH is all well and good, but I think I should be allowed to race official tracks if I so please. Plus pit stops aren't a thing in FH, which means extended races aren't possible.

@@Dat-Mudkip yea i mean two different games that have different appeals. I'd rather not have a hummer ramming everyone off the track in a race like it used to be. Beetle, delorean and shitboxes like that are fine and will probably come along through the course of the game with it being a "live" game. I think there's still plenty of shitboxes here as they haven't removed ferrari from the game tho.

They need an option to keep DrivAtars off entirely. I *hated* when they added those stupid AI. Constantly crashing into me, taking corners wrong, not driving fast enough, braking for no reason, and smashing against me around corners. It's fucking annoying. I like my AI that stuck to a line, not stupid "AI" that can't fucking drive. I have had my damage on cosmetic only ever since DrivAtars were added because they're absolutely stupid and always wreck my car. Fuck DrivAtars

This is the full release. That was the 'demo' from a month ago.

Why do people make this lying PR excuse? Just because the game is in "Early Access" for 5 days doesn't mean its not the full release. It is and anybody making this excuse is either a complete dumbass or willfully lying to make excuses for their bad purchase.

They turned into a cash grab company

Ooh I had forgotten about sega GT, god that was an excellent game

I like your points. One thing that I'd personally like for them to add is some form of scaling over time. I know your whole point is wanting to drive the cars as stock. However, 1 or 2+ years down the road or so I don't want to still be grinding out car levels at the exact same rate. If I've been playing that long I want the game to open up and offer me the freedom to play as desired.

one way to balance that is to have spec races where only stock cars are allowed (which was a feature in some of the early games)

The idea behind the upgrade system is actually quite good. But I think it's just badly implemented. It might be fun at the beginning. But I think it quickly becomes boring to grind each car individually.

"except arguably I never really tried those cars out how they were meant to be" In no Forza game were you ever meant to drive the cars stock outside of specific events. Forza has always been a proverbial sandbox that allowed you to take a car and modify it how you want, within certain limits. That was it's one selling point and this change completely butchered that. The entire point of Forza games was easy, accessible car modding. With that gone in this FM it has become a very, very underwhelming driving game compared to what else is out there. "the new Motorsport appeals to me because you have to spend more time with only a few cars, getting a feel for how they drive as you slowly upgrade them." They showed how to do this in a great way in FH5. An event that had you start stock, do a race and then slightly upgrade the car as you did more races in the event. I like the basic idea, especially for special events like I said above from FH5. I don't like not being able to use money to buy and having upgrades locked behind grinding. That is just anti-gamer changes.

Fully agree with you here and I'm really enjoying the game because of it, but I do get the anger from the more veteran racer groups that know what they are doing and want to get into what they want to do right away. I really like the system but it could definitely be tweaked to improve the experience for the hardcore groups. I like the idea of manufacturer leveling versus car leveling and also the discounts. Make it so you sort of hold off on some uogrades because it's a lot of money and you're not sure you're going to like this car, but once you've played with it a while and you know you like it, you're free to spend less money on every upgrade.

But then there's not enough classes to race with if we're going to focus on motorsports. They don't have a full field of LM HyperCars, GTEs, GT3s, GT4s, BTCC, WTCC etc. I understand wanting to make it more serious....but then If I can't race against a full field of modern GT3s why would I bother with FM, when iRacing or ACC do the same? The whole point of FM was that you could build your own racecar to their classes and then race them. Safe to say I won't be buying this one.

@@sameermohideen4913 Exactly. And ACC doesn't have nearly enough variety and lacks any real career mode, and iRacing is a paid monthly online subscription, which is a total non-starter for many. I'm dying for a proper/serious track motorsports game with a serious and substantial career mode and a good variety of cars with realistic grids available on console/playable offline. Those games were my bread and butter growing up, and there just aren't any left.

@@sameermohideen4913it's on gamepass so you don't have to buy it, just play it for them to make money. Are you not going to play it either or are you going to try it out and realize that things change and change is okay? Or are you one of those people who play madden every year because it's the same game?

Sticking with fh5 seems more like a punishment

if you think they’re gonna make any significant changes to the ai you’re sorely mistaken

REALLY wish the old Motorsports were backwards compatible. I almost wonder if they just won’t bother adding them ever because they know people will play them and call T10 out for their bullshit

They don't want you to have fun, they want to keep you on the game for as long as possible.

@@Bmxchrome This is exactly why, the bean counters want to trot out all the hours wasted as "player engagement" to their shareholders.

Because the game is being included on Gamespass they want to keep people playing as long as possible, it is a truly disappointing time to be into gaming, Forza Motorsport 4 was my favorite game growing up, all of these these games are a shadow of their former selves :(

@@vaughanjanczik1558 That's very true. Thankfully on PC we still have solid indies but AAA gaming is in such a pathetic state now.

agreed, love a good indie game @@Asytra

Buy it anyway

V8 Supercars and no Mt Panorama. What the hell man.

@@Solomon_Grundy the v8 Supercars we have are all out dated anyway, the FGX, vf holden, and the Nissan Altima with no livery

It's the exact same as FM7 on this, the midfielders will brake check you all the time, as the first 2 or 3 cars will pull away really fast. Playing on difficult 7 or 8 is pretty much annoying bacause of this.

I lost a challenge and I need a forfeit can you name ten foods and ten sauces to go on my head please make sure it's messy and disgusting thanks for your help

You beat me to it...or what fm7 should have been