Andrew Dabb - The Worst Thing About Supernatural? 

Y'all know why you're here.

I will stand by my opinion that the worst thing they did in the show was bring Mary back. Mary's first death was the lasting scar on both of their lives, and was the catalyst for everything the boys went through growing up afterwards. Bringing her back meant that they'd need the balls to kill her again or have her invincible, and killing her again would just be a rehash of literally everything we already knew. Obviously we know what they chose, and literally nobody watching felt anything but annoyance.

10:00 I do NOT blame Mark Sheppard for leaving the show, if anything, he got out while the ship was still sinking to the deepest depths before they could make Crowley even more stupid than before.

I'm so agree Dabb kills Supernatural, he doesn't care the show and he hates Dean & Sam. The worst showrunner ever!

But guys c'mon he made Jack a power vaccum, how cool was that. They also were gonna make him a cosmic bomb, that's such an original ide...oh wait nevermind.

Once death meant nothing anymore, how does a writer create tension? Once having a world destroyed may be undone, how does a writer create tension? I was already burned out by trying to follow too many main characters in comic hero movies in the theater. Oh, and once Bobby Singer died and agreed to fully die after being a ghost in the leviathan episodes, then the Winchesters somehow tagged him to break out of his "cell" in heaven to discover how to help them in something else? What does heaven even mean then? The entire fictional heaven/hell created in this series doesn't mean very much anymore. The worlds don't mean anything either. There is no permanence and nothing to cause real conflict anymore.

I always thought Dan Loflin was the better writer in the pair. Dabb has a real problem crafting an arc for the season. His go-to seems to be the classic bait and switch. Like he thinks that's clever, to let us think something is gonna happen, then shift gears mid-season and go in a totally different direction. It's very clear when you rewatch a season. Unlike Kripke, where you can spot clues along the way, that you often don't notice til you're watching in retrospect, Dabb drops stories & really neglects his main characters, Sam & Dean. Eugenie seems to have a lot of power on the show & while I think her & Brad were great writers back in the day, they are old-fashioned in their storytelling & basically change things to make the ending they want happen. I remember great interviews with Kripke where he admitted how tough he was in the writers room, pushing his writers to deliver those amazing scripts we used to get. Now it seems like no one ever questions anything. No one asks why something is happening, no one demands excellence. Nothing is complex, it's pretty simple now, make the characters do whatever is needed to get to the final scene they've already written. Regarding Dean was the last truly great Dean episode. Chuck's ending commentary in Swan Song is one of my absolute favs & defines the character along with the nuanced writing of Robbie Thompson in Don't Call Me Shurley. Chuck can be complex, he can be petty & petulant, but to have him be so vindictive & mean as to burn the world down is not rooted in the reality of the God we've known on the show. Like so many other characters Dabb has brought back & killed, he's destroyed this amazing character. Consistency matters. Canon matters. When you have such a rich tapestry to work with, it's criminal to trash it as he has. I am quite fearful for this final season. I want the fans & the creative team to have an ending worthy of what Kripke created all those years back. A great writer could make it phenomenal, unfortunately we have Dabb. So I expect more regurgitations of past stories, focus on other characters, and no true explorations of who Sam & Dean are. It's a real pity. I'm hopeful I'm wrong, that somehow the gods shine on us & they pull out a good final season. That said, I've been here since the 1st ep & I will support Jensen & Jared & the team & be there til the end. They've earned our loyalty. I just wish they got the scripts they deserved.

You should have called this Video *"The Rise and Fall of Supernatural"*

I come from the future to tell you that YES, HE IS THE WORST AND THIS SHOW DESERVED SO MUCH MORE THEN THIS SHITTY ENDING I'M SOOOO MAD

Thank Chuck! For the longest time I thought I was the only Supernatural fan that thought the villain turn for Chuck was completely and utterly out of nowhere. Of course there were other big problems, and I'm glad you addressed them, but for me I loved Chuck so much that it tore my heart to see his character butchered.

totally agree. the show has gone down tremendously since s5. s8-s11 had some really great moments and a few good story arcs, but the last few seasons have been so bad i can’t even tell you what has happened. i’m just that un-invested.

Yeah, I think we have to put much of the blame on Dabb, though I am positive it is shared with Singer and wife Eugenie (if rumors are true, Eugenie is a major reason why Lucifer/Nick just wouldn’t go away. For me, final nail in the coffin on Dabb was that when his lead actor asked for guidance on the characterization to play Michael!Dean, Dabb just said do whatever you want. That doesn’t sound like a good, capable show runner to me and is likely indicative of how he operates in general, resulting in the last 3 seasons suffering from inconsistent quality in the writing from episode to episode. Where is the vision and the leadership? Horrible Fan service, Ret conning and other inconsistencies like you really cannot keep track of what powers Castiel has at the time and why, Dean is smart in one episode and dumb in the next, just leads at best to audience confusion; at worst to out of character actions and dialogue, making the stories clearly contrived. So while I think there has been some character development, it gets lost because the writers aren’t keeping a consistent narrative.

I hate Dabb so much. I think he is the reason it has slid downhill this badly. Everything is terrible now. The filming. The special effects. The acting. The story lines are non sensical. They retconned everything ever. Its like he went back and purposefully tried to dismantle everything kripke had established right down to Sam being the true vessel of Lucifer. I actually don't think you were harsh enough on him for taking something that was a masterpiece in the first 5 seasons and was finally almost firing on all four cylinders again gor part of 11 and then crapping all over it.

Dabb has systematically ruined Supernatural. Season 14, in particular, was an incoherent mess too heavily focused on Jack, reducing Sam and Dean to bit players. It also culminated with the worst ending imaginable by retconning Chuck. No wonder the actors want the show to end.

On the topic of the brothers lack of character development, any they did have was completely erased to 0% in the finale.

A few weeks ago i started watching it all over again and i said "wait, this is good, why did i stop watching it?" then i got to the episode with the dragons in season six, where they are just normal people with wings and hot hands, and dean was a joke of himself and said to myself "ohhh, i thats why", and now i remembered leviathans, and well i have never gone any beyond season 7

I liked the antichrist story. I wondered where did he go and was he never brought up ever again. Now I see...

That's what I was saying. made once a great show a fucking joke.

Dabb's writing failures can be seen in the dialogue that went from brilliant to mundane. He had to get rid of Crowley because he is apparently incapable of writing dialogue for him. It was the same for Rowena. Dabb brought Supernatural down to the level of other CW shows. He has always been a second tier writer. The loss of all the first tier writers doomed the show. There were so many lost storylines during the last three seasons. One of the best examples was the way that Mary's decision not to make a deal caused what happened in Apocalypse world. When it was revealed there was no reaction on the part of Mary. This should have and could have been a stunning moment, but it was over in the blink of an eye. Andrew Dabb needed the support he never got. Robert Singer was tired and it showed. The show stopped growing completely after Season 12. I can't help but wonder what Ben Edlund and the other original writers would have done differently.

For me, the worst thing that happened is the writers killing death. Come on! As old as God, maybe older. He was locked up deep in the underground and the last time they hauled them up, Noah was building a boat for the great flood, and he was killed with a single swing of his scythe? A single sudden swing. They killed every monster boss with numbers of episodes until they finallh get the kill. And they just killed a powerful being just like that? And the next reaper to die becomes the new death? What a joke. Lol

Dude thanks I needed this.. I was talking this whole finale way to seriously..lol.. I was crying until now.. Bt cry no more😅 .. I was looking up for a reason this all ended horribly.. Guess I found it. Now I am at peace ✌

Omg Chucks quote from Swan Song almost made my cry again xD Great video! I have to agree with what you said about the fanbase eaiting everything what the writers give them. I saw so many people saying the Season 14 finale was as good as Swan Song - or even better. Like wtf, can you believe this? They ruined Chuck and the whole lore of the show for a last "epic" bad guy, and the fans love it. I just don't understand. Like I said before, for me the show ended with the fantastic Season 11.

do you think with jared and jensen being more involved with season 15 will make that season 15 better than the past seasons?. i want eric kripke and some of the writers from the past to come back and be involved for the finale season.

I'm on season 12 and after watching season 11 i kept telling myself that if they ended the show here, i could forgive all the dumb writing decisions and retcons they made so far and still think it's one of the best shows i've seen. Because seriously, season 11 finale made it seem like the grand story was coming to an end with Dean's funeral speech and all these characters making cameos and coming back, with the literal God himself, and Amara (a being stronger than God) being the villain (and a good one at that, in my opinion). But then I saw this random British chick at the last episode and I just knew that they're going to drag this out even more. And then I saw Mary and I rolled my eyes. If these next four seasons are that bad, my head canon will just be that the show ended after season 5, and seasons 6-11 were 'bonus' seasons while 12-15 didn't exist.

once the show ends, im literally so excited for the tell all books and interviews that explain all the behind the scenes goings on

Don't forget a portion of the fandom call him the Destiel prophet....*epic facepalm* yeah right, he is mostly a puppeteer of those ambitions.

Well said. I thought something was wrong with me for not enjoying the last 3 seasons as much as the previous seasons. I really don't like what they did to God and a lot of what they (Dabb) did to the show is one big giant lie and an FU to the show, including to the boys and to the fans. Making God the final seasons big villain and bringing back things they've killed is like a greatest hits, but isn't that super lazy? We cant think of anything else, so lets make God a dick and bring creatures/ghosts back to keep the boys busy. I also noticed how the show has been shot, much like the crap that is now (has been for many seasons) Criminal Minds.

I wish someone would write a tell all book about "Supernatural" the post-Kripke years. I'm sure there are many interesting stories to tell. I agree Dabb was a terrible show runner. I heard the writer's room under is reign was heavily divided which could explain why his years are such a mess. I wasn't a fan of the AU and all of the returning characters. I thought they should just stay dead. Hated Luifer sticking around for so long. Cass had long out worn his story arch. They didn't know what to do with him - one week he has power and the next he didn't. The retconning and disregard of the lore was horrible. Buckner & Ross-Lemming were guilty of this quite often. I hated Chuck/God as the final big bad. It just didn't work. I did like the finale. I thought the barn scene was epic but then Jared and Jensen improvised the dialogue.

i have not seen enough spn video essays so thank you for this in advance

Hello Mr. Hannaford, I agree that the season finale was horrible & that turning God into the main villain was the biggest mistake the show has ever made, so I'll be tuning season 15 out. I think the real trouble started when the CW passed on doing the "Wayward Sisters" spin-off in which Dabb could have incorporated some of these abruptly dropped story-lines into that show & would have made tem work. "Wayward Sisters" was the perfect way of attracting new viewers to the "Supernatural" brand, while also enticing the fans that had been with the franchise (like me) since day one that wanted to see a group of butt-kicking women take on the mantle of fighting the darkness, but the CW chose not to move forward with it. Strange, since they were willing to move forward with "Legacies" which is the second spin-off of "The Vampire Diaries" franchise. ( Love "Legacies" by the way) & are willing to have another "Riverdale" spin-off called "Katy Keane" about a girl that hopes to make it big in The Fashion World." The first "Riverdale" spin-off is "The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina" which airs on Netflix. Not to mention the "Batwoman" spin-off that they have green-lit despite the character appearing in one episode in their endless "Arrowverse. My point is that all these spin-offs are different. They are not rehashes of the same thing the way that "Supernatural" is. The CW has to share the blame in this in the fact that they have willingly sabotaged any attempt to do a spin-off of "Supernatural". Then they come up with some lame excuse why they couldn't move forward with it. The CW claims to have faith in the "Supernatural" franchise, but clearly don't have enough faith in the property to let it grow & expand beyond the two boys. The CW, it seems is determined to keep "Supernatural" in a bubble, which in my opinion has contributed to the show being the trainwreck it is now. What is your view?

I am a veteran fan and this program as they were broadcasting clearly began to make ridiculous plots, the fan service even the sam arc was no longer followed, there are many people who only watched until season 9 or 10 and without wanting to see the next installment. Now all I have is nostalgia

I just came across this video, and have to say that you've taken the words right out of my mouth at almost every point. The lack of leadership in the writer's room is clear. There are a few ideas that I think were risky, but could have worked if they had committed to them. But, often those ideas are almost immediately dropped or pulled back on. It's evident that either Dabb or Singer (most likely Singer) cares way more about pleasing the fanbase and keeping up the ratings as opposed to telling a good story. I recognize not everything is Dabb's fault. From hire ups, the boys needing more time off, and obvious budget cuts, it's clear he was doomed from the start, but he certainly didn't go out of his way to help himself either. I was hoping, given it's the final season, there would therefore be less pressure on the ratings and they could be a little more creative. But, it only seems like they've doubled down on a lot of their choices. I'm curious to see how Dabb does as a showrunner when he's not under Singer. I wasn't a big fan of Carver either, but he's currently writing my favorite show on television with Doom Patrol, so I guess if he can surprise me, I can give Dabb a second chance. Just wish he hadn't drained all of the energy out of my favorite show.

i am woooooooooooondering what you guys all think now about THE ending of supernatural. :D

A few qualms. The "Oscar" worthy acting wasn't because it was a great scene or we hadn't seen it a million times. It was just nicely well acted. The "fandom" didn't eat everything up. Like you most of us just wanted closure. So we kept watching. Also some people came in via reruns or Netflix and weren't burned out. I think that's why the numbers remained steady.

the only good thing that come out of this show for last ... hell knows, how many years, is the panels and gag reels, and stuff. i watch show only because of Cas, i love him. but must admit it's bad, and logic is dead here. also, fun service is not all that good... like bringing back few characters is not good enough. you have to do interesting things with them.. which they didnt....

It hurts more now, after it all ended, but s15 had a few good episodes, I believe each season had a few good or interesting episodes but they completely destroyed Cas’ character in the sense that he became a joke or scape goat. My favorite character is Cas but the past few seasons hurt me to see how far they made him go, he’s not even respected by the brothers anymore. S14 should have had Cas smiting rooms of monsters that couldn’t give him the location of Dean, not being a damsel in distress, they killed his powers more and more for budget. The brothers were reduced back to their season 1 selves and it destroyed the show. Screw Andrew Dabb

I completely agree with you! Thanks for giving me some background info on this. Over the years I have had very up and down feelings about my favorite show and certain storyline choices. Still love it, but couldn't agree with u more.

I have to agree with everything that you have said. Every season they would introduce so many storylines that just went nowhere and were dropped with no explanation. The first 5 seasons I really enjoyed but have struggled from 6 - 14. Far too much focus on angels and demons to the point where both factions were reduced from something incredibly powerful to a really bad punchline.

the show has obviously gotten a lot worse since andrew dabb took over but honestly it's been going downhill since the last scene of season 5. there were some good episodes and ideas after that but if it had just ended with chuck vanishing, dean going back to lisa & ben and sam in hell it would have easily been one of the greatest shows of all time but since they wanted to keep going it was obvious that supernatural was gonna get milked till it's death just like the simpsons or spongebob squarepants

I agree. Is it bad I miss the ghost facers? They add such comedy without trying so hard. I would like the see a ghost facers episode even though they are in a apocalypse world

I'm honestly surprised that Dabb hasn't gone all Destiel by now. And as bad as he is, he doesn't hold a handle to Scott Gimple, who may have single-handedly ruined The Walking Dead. Look, SPN has had a good run. One problem with episodic TV is that the writers are stuck not knowing when they are going to get the word that the show is ending and they have to try to cobble together something cohesive. Another problem is that the plot lines dictate the show ends at a certain point and the writers are stuck with having to go beyond that point because the ratings are good and the show is staying on way past where the ending of the show should have been. (An example of this is The Mentalist. Not only was the discovery of the identity of Red John a huge letdown, the show went on for two more seasons of just dreck afterwards.) In all honesty, it is time for SPN to end and I hope they do right by it. If it's all just a book by Chuck, I think it will be a real middle finger to the fans -- like the ends of St. Elsewhere or Lost. But the season 14 finale with the souls coming back from hell to....wtf? Motorhead? was fantastic. To use that song was a departure and I thought it was a good thing and one of the only hopeful moments in Season 14. Seasons 1-6 were fantastic as well as season 11, so how much can we complain that there were 7 great seasons of a show to watch? Your points are very well made, Jeremy.

I’m really glad I gave up after 7... I own 1-7 on DVD but that season sucked so hard... I know there’s good moments later but I’d have to watch it all if I got back into it and I just don’t have the desire to deal with the garbage. I hope S15 is good for everyone who has stuck with this show.

Clicked on this video 3 years after it was released, and it couldn't be more relevant. I've recently been rewatching Supernatural and was instantly reminded of why I stopped watching it 3 episodes into S12. The show should have ended at the end of S5, but if they were going to continue it, then S11 gave it a perfect opportunity to end it in spectacular fashion.....aside from Mary being revived.

Great video!

Thank you for this..... we all gonna missed this show....

Wow great video, the time and effort is there

You are my new fandom now. ✨

Someone posted this on twitter, so I'm just posting this for fun: "Andrew Dabb has one year to decide whether he wants to go down as the worst showrunner in SPN history who single-handedly destroyed a legendary show & J2's life work or as the showrunner who pulled the best plot twist in SPN history Please Dabb don't choose the first" I honestly don't think it's Dabb though, I think it is Singer and his wife Eugenie who are ruining the show, looking at some of the clips from the comic con from last year, and from Paley Fest... The way she talks it's pretty obvious!

THANK YOU! I pretty much agree with everything you said regarding the last three seasons, and as a fan who's been watching since 2005, the last 3 years have been frustrating, and I have zero excitement for season 15 (and from the looks of it season 15 won't be airing in Australia).

As Both Jensen and Jared have said they want to come back to Supernatural in the future. I wish Jensen can some how convince Kripke to come back as well and that maybe HBO Max would foot the bill for the show. They could do 8-10 episode and 5 seasons and with the budget retell the og story of the the brothers. I wish! I thought the show should have ended after 5 seasons. The last couple of seasons were really hard to watch. A lot of rehashing of same ideas. Basically everything your saying here. It was hard to see the show ended but the ending was not that great. S15E19 should have been the last episode.

I don't think it's entirely Andrew dabb's fault as to why this show is not great anymore. It probably is a collective effort from Robert singer, some writing from dabb, and no point of this show really happening anymore because where do you go from season 11. They should of end it there or all the way back to season 5 but CW is like nope. You also mention seasons 8,9,and 10 which I thought we're good but is pretty much forgettable like Sam's relationship with the woman in the first half of 8 or their grandfather Henry timetraveling to their present. Hopefully season 15 is a solid season that ends with a satisfying and good note. It can't top season 5's ending

still rings true to this day

I agree that Dabb was the worst showrunner and i dislike Seasons 12, 13 and 15. But i do like Season 14, having Michael as the big bad and having Jensen as Michael was cool. I think it's a fine season.

I’m currently making my way through the show and am currently on Season 7. I thought Seasons 1-5 are fantastic and Season 6 was a decent epilogue, in a way. Season 7 is weird to me as it started out great (the first episode is one of my favourites of all time), but it’s definitely going through the motions, so much so that I just take the piss out of it now. I told the ending of the show to a friend and she laughed and said it sounded awful.

I think the main problem with Dabb is that he doesn't make good on his promises. Like he'll set up something that may even have some potential, but then he doesn't deliver. It's really frustrating to watch. I think a lot of the ideas he introduced could have worked if he actually sat down and thought them through, but because he didn't it all turned into fan service.

I agree with everything but I kinda liked Rick Springfield as Lucifer, felt he brought some menace back to Luci, when I felt they turned Marks Lucifer into a walking gag.

Thank you, CW shows are trash or turned into trash fast, Supernatural was my only reason to watch the network and seasons 13, 14, and 15 were horrible

I normally don't pay a lot of mind to reviews of shows/movies/books just because they're kind of irrelevant if the person doing the review doesn't have tastes at least somewhat similar to mine to begin with. It's still a valid opinion, of course, I just don't let them guide my choices of what to watch/read/listen to. But all of your videos that I've watched so far tell me your perspective very closely matches my own, so I'm happy to find a voice I can actually pay attention to!

For me it's the personal stuff. The one thing I loved about season 12, despite the BMOL being skipable, is the sense of stability in the family. However the minute we got comfortable with that thought, suddenly Crowley deserves to die, Cas deserves to die, and Mary gets thrown to another world. There was no respect for what each extended character stood for anymore. And the more people removed, the more issues with Sam and Dean's characters. And you're right that's not even covering the blatant ignorance to continuity details (your Mark Sheppard clips). The only save and grace was every other creator holding on as long as possible to trying to maintain the extended family unit, and the series finale had to ruin that as well?! All in all, I think a lot of this is more likely 100% Network involvement than anything else. The network loved the fact that this series made history as "longest running fantasy show," loved that people to this day still find the show anew and binge it, and want to keep making money off of these incredibly talented actors. If I'm being honest with myself, the only reason I didn't walk away after season 12 is because of how much I care about the actors themselves. And Just as an aside, the general public audience does not think about writing that much, so when people throw out the words Oscar worthy, they mean the amount of great emotion coming from the actor. In the heat of the moment I loved that moment too, but that was all because of Jared and Jensen bringing their A+ acting as always.

Dabb had no grand vision for anything. He was small potatoes thinking 4 episodes ahead at most. Your hate for Dabb is near equal to my hate for Joe Malozzi who killed Stargate.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the aesthetic change to the show!! I miss the more "dark and shadowy" filter to the show from the first 3 or 4 seasons. I remember when I started watching the show, I was like 6 or 7, I remember some episodes scaring me. Some Supernatural fans hate the monster of the week episodes but I always loved them. That's always been at the roots of the show and the brothers taking down a spirit or monster and them trying to figure out what it is and how it works always intrigued me because they are fighting a spirit or monster they don't know much about or sometimes they think they do and it actually doesn't work that way. Just the unknown of what they are fighting and having that creepy vibe to it all was always something about the show I loved in the first few seasons, especially the first 3 when they had that dark filter over it

season 5 is the cannon ending

Late to the party, but I really enjoyed this rundown. As you say so eloquently, the show painted itself into a corner, and Dabb was just not capable of taking the risks necessary to get himself out of it. Fan Service can be fun when it's done delicately and sparingly but this show always had a complex relationship with its fans and its loudest fangirls, especially. I mean, they weren't shy about mocking them weren't they? And don't get me started on the queerbaiting with Dean and Cas. The show teased those fans so much they felt like they had to do something, despite the fact that it was never realistically going to happen, and that was botched. Dabb, after all, had written a few gags about it where it was clear he thought the idea was funny and so, again, wrong person to paint the show out of a corner. Mary coming back to somehow be what John was in the early seasons, also botched. Crowley, horribly botched. And trying to recreate Swan Song but reversing the brothers' roles and dropping a bridge on Dean was...well a choice. Dabb's seasons really feel like a campy parody of the show's earlier seasons. It's like watching Tim Burton's Batman become Joel Schumacher's Batman. Or Nolan's Batman because Batman V. Superman.

I agree with a lot of what you've said, and have said some of the same things over the years. I've often complained that Dabb has never cared as much about respecting canon or character history as I'd like him to. He actually said as much during a panel many years ago. During the first 5 seasons. I'm paraphrasing him in saying that fans don't really care that much about the little things. He seemed to think that as long as you gave fans what they wanted, the rest was basically set dressing. Well, not this fan. I care a lot about respecting what's come before in a show, and NOT retconning. And if you did do something counter to what should be possible, that there was a really good explanation. I also don't think it's all Dabb. There is Singer, like you said. Who I think should have stepped back and taken a smaller role. The fact that the season 13 finale happened like it did is all on him. That flying fiasco part of the final fight should never have made it to air. It was clearly off and he should have done something. Budget be damned. Fix it. Editing could have done a lot. That kind of treatment makes him seem careless, or just lazy. Not respecting us. Then there is the lead writing team, who also has some bad habits, and doesn't seem to respect things like they should. They all have talent, but maybe have been doing this too long? That said, I've still continued to love the show. I complain a lot, but that's just because I know it can do better. The problems were not insurmountable. Someone needed to take the rein and say "we need to fix this". But it's like they were all on cruise control or something. And I'm not fully upset at S14 finale. Surprisingly. I did like some of the things you called fan service. Yes, character developed is important. I do see character development shown in this season, though. For Sam and Dean. Some flubs, where it was using old gimmicks, but overall decent. There's also just needing to acknowledge that a person can only change so much. They'll fall back on old habits at times. Especially at times of stress. It was pretty obvious that the finale was pretty meta. I guess a lot could be read in all of that. Perspective is really key with that, though. Which direction you're coming from. I at first hated what I saw with Chuck. Totally agreed with you. Now, I can see how it could have been that way from the beginning. Because he was lying. Playing everyone. He put himself into the story. It wasn't cleanly done, and there were holes in how they did the final episode with Chuck. That was pititful. Unless it was done on purpose. I guess the final season will give the answer. Knowing that Jensen and Jared will be involved gives me mixed feelings. I'm happy on one hand, but worried on another, because of potential difficulties in adding new people to a team that's been coasting along together for years. Should be interesting. Would love the be a fly on the wall.

100% agree with you

Kay seriously, is there like a way that I can vid chat you? Cause I wanna talk to a supernatural fan that isn’t completely and utterly blind. (Like you said.) also I think I have some great ideas on what they could have done. (Storyline wise, and shooting wise.)

Supernatural ended after season 5. The perfect ending imo where it left it open ended. Sam and Dean riding off into the distance in the Impala.

Ugh yeah speaking as someone who was a rabid fangirl in 2015-16 i quickly dropped off after season 12. though they aren't my least favorite seasons, i'd say 12-14 are the worst seasons of the show. not only because of production value, but even the episode to episode writing and directing fell so flat. it felt like i was watching any other show on the cw, not supernatural. there are episodes in there that i love, but those are the exceptions, not the rule. the thing you said about fanservice kinda rubbed me the wrong way, but i think i agree with what you're getting at. it felt like he was just throwing things at the wall to see what stuck, instead of picking a storyline and developing it. speaking as someone who loved pretty much everyone killed off originally, i h a t e d the apocalypse world storyline. it was boring, uninspired, and spat in the face of the characters we and the boys had mourned for so long. apocalypse bobby makes me want to claw my eyes out. a pale imitation of a great thing. the thing about seasons 12 and 13 at least is they have emotional narratives they're trying to tell. i like what jack adds to the tfw dynamic. i like sam learning to become a leader. i don't like basically any of the actual plotlines though, which, i think, could have just as much to do with singer's meddling as it does anything else. i've heard a lot of stories about emotional beats and whole character arcs getting cut by execs because they thought it wouldn't sell well. i honestly think that's how we ended up with three seasons of a soap opera. three seasons of sam and dean doing motw style hunts and coping with their trauma accrued over the past decade could have been really compelling television. sure, throw in a baddie or two, but make it center around the boys and how they have and haven't changed since the beginning. with execs breathing down your necks telling you to make everything bigger and more engaging, i can understand how you'd end up with things like lucifer the yo-yo and gabriel as last ditch efforts to keep things 'exciting'.

I can think of only one way that the Chuck line could be saved but it is weak at best. I seriously disliked how interesting characters would be introduced then killed off two episodes later or even in the same episode they were introduced! A total waste! And I am very concerned as to how it will end. Hopefully something good but likely something corny.

I also think a big problem with the show is the limitations of its structure. It becomes very derivative when the monster of the week episodes seem very similar and start to blend together and many become forgettable. I felt the same way about The X-files. The structure of that show was very similar and as that series went on, each episode became more generic. Both shows I think could have benefited from a change in their story structures to keep things fresh. When the people in charge of a show keep doing the same thing year after year it eventually leads to complacency and stagnation which is what I think has happened to the show. They've gotten into a comfortable routine which has hurt their ability to be creative and write interesting stories. This is evident in the fact that Dabb would keep dropping main characters and story lines to have the lame monster of the week episodes because that's the structure of the show they're most familiar and comfortable with. No room to take chances and develop compelling stories.

Too many shows do this, they go onto twitter and pander the fan base ships. No integrity.

I don't dislike Mary being brought back, honestly the worst stuff that happened to the show was the slow weakening of the angels, but up to season 11 it still made sense, since they fell in season 8, and got weakened, however the archangels, easily the worst problem seasons 12-15, the absolute fuc*ing worst problems, because they have absolute no reason to be such a joke, the fucking DBZ blasts that they shoot every now and then is so distracting to look at, it's such a different take at the nearly Lovecraftian nature of their being and power, it's horrible and the nerve to misuse what was established of their characters, Lucifer going over to god' side, Michael deceiving the two brothers, being an actual plain and simple liar, Gabriel being brought back and dying in like two or three episodes when he was not only a vital character to the downfall of Lucifer in season 5 he had a presence in the show since seasons 1 or 2 as the prankster joker guy, building up to a mystery, that was the worst the show did, EASILY, nothing came close to that, no British men of letters or alternate worlds or whatever else the show did was as bad as that Now, everything else, I thought that even at their worst, it was still okay, the British men of letters were good enemies, having a human enemy for once was interesting and the fact that they wouldn't simply be wiped out and instead be an actual seasonal enemy was cool, the way they also manipulate and lie, Mic was a great character, even with his death being so quick right at the moment he turns around, Crowley keeping Lucifer alive to torment him ended up making his character a bit more interesting, building up to his death where he finally decides to accept who he has become, not dancing around between being evil or good and just going with his flow and dealing with the consequences of his actions, also the fact that Crowley became the king of hell so unceremoniously helped this bit, since his childishness made more sense since the only bit of respect he got as a king of hell either came from fear or those far from him like the boys. I thought that Mary punching Lucifer wasn't that forced, it was clear already that they didn't give a flying fuck to Lucifer's character so to me having a Winchester punching an archangel is cool, also I could argue that Lucifer being punched and caught off guard was just him messing around with the idea of behaving human, since he was clearly enjoying himself while joining in on the whole human fighting thing, again, I hate it, but it's not impossible to try and see some good side to it Season 13 followed up by giving us Jack, the whole season 12 thing about Lucifer's kid led up to the fact that it was up to the kid's influence, what his powers would be used for, so it was nice for the boys to have to deal with this in their own way, Ketch's development was interesting, a little forced but interesting, when not about archangels, it was good, alternate Michael was forgettable, he existed, nothing good about him, nothing bad, he had no presence whatsoever and was nearly completely forgettable, Lucifer had a whole development this season only to end up in the most anticlimactic way possible, slowly turning around as a character but giving up on Jack completely was stupid, instead it would have been nice if they just had Jack kill Michael somehow, then have the same thing about Lucifer enjoying killing and the falling out, and have Lucifer kill everyone in the base and leaving, conflicted on his emotions about Jack, not the best finale but still, way better than what we got, the ugliest, the absolute disrespect of season 5 that was that final battle between Michael and Lucifer, it was, offensive, season 5 was all about avoiding that battle and just avoiding that we had casualties like, cities being wiped out, plagues, entire coasts being powered out, so much crazy crap only for it to end up being like, average London street fight, fuck off with season 13's ending there is nothing to salvage that except dichael, oh yeah, Gabriel, another archangel, yep, he was as important here as he was in season 7 of breaking bad, nothing else to say about that Like I said, if not for the archangels, the show is mostly okay after season 11, it's 99% the writing on the archangels that fu*ks everything up, although I'll say, death after season 10 is also a little janky, acceptable until season 15, where most of it is just bad overall

What im learning is doing put someone who writes one off episodes in charge of a show ala supernatural or dr who

Thank you for this! Now I feel a little bit better knowing many people feel the same way about later seasons of the show. Like I remember I was 13 or 14 and loved it sm, loved characters, loved the story, but then I just stopped at season 9 and didn't touch it for many years. Now I'm 22 and decided to rewatch and finally finish the series...but oh god. I fully understand why I stopped watching it many years ago. I started to dislike the plot since demon dean and mark of cain so it was hard to keep watching. Of course there were some great filler episodes but in general it was not that supernatural and characters that I fell in love with. I can't make myself watch sth after season 11, because they returned Mary and I hate this, also main characters seems off and not like themselves, a continuous lie, hypocrisy(especially Dean, and he was my fave character but again I can't make myself like him when he behaves in a such way), buІІshіt they do and say, how they treat Cass.. I hate this. I will not watch the last seasons cuz you know I just wanna pretend nothing of this happened. I know all the spoilers, know how it ends but I'm not bying what they're selling

I'm actually glad they brought Mary back. They also should have bring Jess back in some kind of way. Both characters were fridged and it's way to normal to fridge female characters brutally. 🥺 I also like her character development. Just the way they killed characters in the latest seasons were just stupid. Crowley, Charlie, Mary...pointless deaths.

how you think s11 originally was meant to end?

I thought season 13 was pretty decent, actually. 12, 14, and 15 were shit. Also 13:48 I would disagree, i think their development stopped after season 11 ended.

The show would need Kripke to fix the damage done and make season 15 worthwhile in its entirety and as “the end” finale. It’s def been dragging the last few years; sometimes when I watch I feel like...did they even know where they were going with this? One of my biggest peeves about the show is that they have disregarded the lore. Like you said this was probably done out of fan base and lack of creativity.

Andrew Dabb 🤝 trashing supernatural

Bravo. Couldn’t have said it better. You’re actually more generous than I am. Are you aware that Robert Singer’s wife is the co-writer of the absolute worst episodes in show history? Since season 1. Eugenie Ross-Leming. Utter nonsense, like 15.02. I think when a creator starts to write FOR any group of people, the product will be crap. Andrew Dabb proves that. Or, as I call him, PANDrew. Truly an all-time great panderer. Please make a video like this every week!

Do you have a video about Singer?

I totally agree with you I stopped watching this show twice once in the middle of season 7 and halfway through season 9 they should have brought back the half human half demon child at least or that boy whose mom was killed by dean or lisa and ben for the final season

are you planning on making a video about the gamble era of supernatural once you're done watching season 6 and 7 🤔📺

Also, I HATED Rick Springfield as Lucifer, but then on rewatch I was more ok with it, for some reason. But im actuality, it did suck and the show is a lot different...

I thought it went to hell starting with season 12. I gave up in season 13. it became a caraciture of itself after that.

In moriah the twist Doesn't the twist make the 14 seasons pointless as the boys still had to deal with everything that happened but the reveal that all the plans that had to stop where not thought of by themsrlf I. E lucifers return, livithans, crowley etc it was, all just god seems off somehow or am I misreading it

OMG... You are so right...

I hate that they made god into a villain, especially despite season 11 being bad still had that good episode with god and that ending song that made me hate the newer seasons even more than before

I quit after the revival of marry but check in from time to time. this show may have been a real gem if they stopped after season 5

Chuck being bad in season 15 for me ruined season 11 when the boys first meet him as God!! I agree season 11 ending would have been perfect where after Chuck and Amara reunite together and leave ,it just ends where Dean goes back home to a crying Sam and Cas and they hug and it ends there!!! None of this bring back Mary bullshit and the British men of Letters!!! So stupid!!!

completely agree

The last 6 or so seasons have been bit disappointing . You could tell they was running out of storylines . Chuck, men of letters, bunker crowded just let it down . The darkness gave it a boost and it was like the original style of the show . Some of the best scenes I have ever seen is between the brothers .

Wasn't he Co show runner with singer, so why dabb get all the blame??

I liked the wedding episode.

Sam and Dean's characterizations swap back and forth with no rhyme or reason. Samantha Smith was obviously not into the whole "being a main part of the show all of a sudden" thing. Why are they allowing Misha Collins to do all these nonesensical accents a the time? Jared and Jensen seem exhausted. The scene that was praised despite being a rehash of the entirity of spn was mostly due to Jared being in a very bad place mentally and emotionally (allegedly I must add). Why do they keep bringing back Nick? What have they done to Gabriel? (my favourite character. Hated that stupid plot so much. And even then they couldn't get shit straight. It's been 8 years, not 7, and even then I have to be generous with that one year between s5 and s6) Billy. Just Billy. The show has lost all its heart over the years and I refuse to ackowledge the later seasons as canon. I'd rather write my own version of the spn fan fiction.

Yes

I felt that Supernatural was a very well written TV series, but all of a sudden the show runners and writers must have gotten fired and we ended up with woke showrunners and woke writers and all of a sudden season 15 turned into a shitshow.. I always felt that dean and Sam should be able to ride off into the sunset have families and their children pick up right where they left off, that's how I felt Supernatural should have ended.. Just saying..

11:38 not to mention season 6’s stupid “vampire cure” too...

LOL You said "the CW and the Brothers didnt want it to be" lol, they arent real brothers in real life, cause it would be jared and jensen not sam and dean who made the decision in your sentence and context hahaha Also Dabb always looks tired in the pics u show

Hmm. I commented about this on JH's last review about the finale. However since watching this video I am even MORE #teamjeremy. The one thing I CANNOT stand is when shows don't use their own history. JH points this out several times. I don't know if it is Dabb's ego or Singer's puppet mastering but leaving several characters dangling (Anti Christ kid, Adam etc) for multiple seasons weakened the show. Having the same monsters (rugaroos, vamps and werewolves but ESPECIALLY rugaroos) making appearances and then suddenly finding a cure for lycanthropy seems unlikely. Why isn't there a cure for vampirism or rugarooism (is that even a word?). Why not start spreading the cures to these common played out monsters instead of hunting. Perhaps I should stop typing now before Dabb uses THAT as an idea for the final season and the show is re titled "Drs Winchester: Monster Curers, featuring Specialist Castiel" I freely admit I was one of the ppl (perhaps the only one but I can't find the screenshot) that thought it would be cool if Mary came back. Did Dabb take my suggestion because I am a fan? Who knows? But if he DID he went about it the WRONG WAY with writing. How stupid of her to get involved with Ketch (another dangling character)? I think that is part of the reason many fans hated her and NOT the PTSD she experienced that resulted in many fans calling her "cold" and lead to her being extraneous. That idea is based on the fact that Dabb was solely listening to fans and NOT thinking about character development. I didn't mind the Gabriel ret con since it meant a fan favourite was NOT left dangling. But the Kentucky Fried Demon (moniker credit to JH) was a joke. I thought he was going to be the new Crowley, can you say EPIC FAIL. Then I had some hope about Rowena being a new Crowley and I think they TRIED to spin it that way but if she is powerful enough to cage Luci, come back from the dead TWICE, once after being burned alive BY Luci then why can't they give her more to DO besides help the Ws once in a GREAT while. All I can say is the last season better be PHENOMENAL and have a great finale and Dabb and company better get on their game.