Anime’s Stupidest Argument 

_happy canadian noises_

* "animé" is the word for "animated" in one of Canada's two official languages. 😉

best take ive seen so far

But Super Crooks is a anime and is based off a comic book.

So by your definition 3 studio ghibli movies aren't anime because they are based on western works(howl's moving castle, the secret world of arrietty, and Ponyo).😅

Yeah, but to a Japanese person, "anime" is just the Japanese word for animation. So of course they would call an animation "anime", that's what that word means. However, in the non-Japanese world, that is not what the word "anime" means. If it was, there would be no reason to use a word from another language like that, we would just be calling them animations or cartoons. The fact that people in the West use the term "anime" to refer to Japanese animation makes entire sense, what doesn't make sense is you making the argument that that word means the same thing to a Westerner as it does to a Japanese person.

@@firebash7342 I'm just explaining how the usage of the word "anime" actually works in the real world. And the majority of people understand and agree with that, if you ask a random Westerner on the street what anime is, they're going to tell you "Japanese animation", not just "animation". But I guess if having a educated understanding of how language works makes me a neckbeard, then so be it lmao

​@@Cryptic.Messagepop quiz: what do you think the french call their animation

@@itsjustvin7630 Japanese consider ALL cartoons, as ANIME(Animation)... They also include Tokusatsu/Puppetry/CGI/Claymation as animations... Stop splitting hairs. "Japanime" is Japanese-originating CARTOONS...

@@ynraider yet we don't call donghua and aeni as animes.

Bars

I eagerly await the day when we have a site that is the database for all animation, no matter the country. Japanese animation has arguably stopped being a niche thing since the 2010s, and the niche use of the term with ether evolve to include everything (just how Japanese do it from their end) or die out as a term all together.

IMHO it couldn't hurt to just rebrand it as My Animation List and have "country of origin" or whatever be a search field.

we have Disney, Sony, DC, and so many others working hard to make cartoons high quality. Children's cartoons are for sure lacking in innovation. But cartoons as a medium are not. I will give a easy definition: *Anime is given to a project that is worked on in some part, probably more than 30% in Japan and by a Japanese anime studio.* That's it, just because some style is replicating it does not make it anime. Avatar is a American cartoon, so is Scott pilgrim. Let's not take away from the hard work American animators put into their art. If I make a sushi inspired dish, does that make my sushi traditional? Of course not.

​​@@ljeans531is Avatar an American cartoon? It was animated mostly in Korea, by koreans working in a korean animation studio. Not in America

@wave1090 That is a common misconception, large parts of the animation were sourced in Korea, but American animators did work on it, and all the story boarding, character design, and production happened in America at Nickelodeon.

Well he did grow up and live in Japan. Also that makes like 30% of Miyazaki’s work not anime because he adapted European and American literature

Of course not, NGNL is obviously a Desenho Animado!

The Author of Cyberpunk Edgerunners aswell.

Just gonna casually throw something like Kings Avatar in there, Chinese produced show written by a Chinese person...they are willing to call this anime (more power to them obviously anything if its within the artistic medium should be considered anime if it followers certain signifiers, that's sorta how we went from "German Expressionism to just...Expressionism) but for some reason other shows with the same anime stylings that at a second glance most people would more than be willing to call anime...are not on MAL...and the only reasoning I see is because theyre produced by English speakers.

Author of doctor stone is french and the artist is korean if i am correct not sure tho Edit: the Author is japanese but the illustrator is korean

In the meantime you can read some manfra (manga inspired comics made mainly in France). Radiant is probably the more accessible to recommend, with an anime broadcasted on Japan to boot

I would love to hear it too! When I was in France for 2 weeks over the summer for the first time I saw so much manga. Of series we don’t even have in America/ English yet. Like a lot more of Jojos. I want to hear about the French series that aren’t well known in the states.

Please! that would be wonderful fun. Their second bigest animated export, after Asterix and Obelix, is so Anime it hurts.

Upvote this!

I agree ! Im a first year animation student in France, and I would love to see a video on the subject ! Even if we have a lot of good shows and movies its kind of sad to see that a lot of them havent reach the mainstream. Especially since we tend to have a more varied catalogue than the us in my opinion

Ah yes, a show about reincarnating as a vending machine, such high art, worthy of the Mona Lisa. X) Yeah no, I agree with you, Japanese animation has loads of jokey stuff that never intended to be serious or high art.

@@Bionickpunk lol yea like not to say that there aren’t really great and artistic series but like any other media- some stuff is just meant to be good fun. Vending machine isekai is a good example of that

This is a pretty dumb argument. “Anime” just means “animated work” in Japanese, it’s a different word than the one we use in English.

Anime is literally short for japan animation

​​@@nagatouzumaki4047actually you're thinking of japanimation the old and unfortunately kinda racist that was abandoned when the community discovered the word anime which is literally Japanese for cartoon

East was inspired by Western animation like Disney, Western animation was then inspired by the East like Mecha and Super Sentai, then East with west, and back and forth for nearly a century. Animation industries have almost always interacted with each other cause the actual people in the industry dont just love Japanese or Western animation, they love all animation, and the cooperation and intermixing has only increased in this more global and digital world. That is indeed beautiful.

People like anime, there are entire channels just for anime People like anime, nobody likes western garbage Demon slayer out sold the entire comic industry

It's kind of like ignoring how much creatives talk to each other, reference each other and so on. Luffy is referencing Bugs Bunny ffs.

It's almost like the only people who really give a shit about the distinction and perpetuate this idea of competition are elitist, extremely sweaty jerks and not anyone actually in the industry. Japanese creators and Japanese fans mostly don't give a shit and it's always been us western fans that distinguish it. It's always been like this with animation, and film, and video games for that matter. There's always going to be differences in style and technique based on the culture that developed it and that isn't an unreasonable basis to categorize the various regional pre-mutations, but when the people of those industries are inspired by and actively influence by each other, and have since the infancy of the various mediums, you can only categorize something that actively cross-contaminates and intermingles so much before you have to admit that sometimes a definition is entirely arbitrary and causes more problems that in solves.

Some western people prefer the japan animations I dont know why that offends some people Maybe it's elitism or not, at the end of the day it's still a prefernce and some people prefer anime If you prefer cartoons ok watch spongebob if im to prefer naruto. I have the freedom to do that as does any other anime fan

Fair

Ngl, I loved Drawn Together.... I still love it. Probably BECAUSE it was terrible and obnoxiously offensive... There are reasons Xander is my favorite character, despite the fact I absolutely adore the Zelda franchise.

@@cameronjadewallace Love it too, but I think it was excellent. How is it terrible?

I feel betrayed, I loved that show

@@PWN4G3FTW Imo, It was just too crass for me to enjoy. Blue comedy isn't my thing. I wouldn't call it terrible, just gross.

I think the average quality of anime is a little higher than cartoons, but cartoons can be amazing. Phineas and Ferb is as good as any anime.

​@mothersbasement The average quality of anime is equal to cartoons, imo, it's just that we in the western world only notice the good ones because those are the ones that are airing on out TVs and being advertised to us.

Kung Fu Panda is by far my favourite anime.

Because most people don't watch the terrible anime. I don't think anime is better or anything, but when I want a certain something that generally only anime gives, then I watch anime. Animation-wise, though, I would say anime is generally better and more reliable because you know which studios to watch out for. Although even parts of that are still subjective. Some people may not like high-octane anime animation because its too messy, bright, and colorful for them. They may prefer something simpler like how DC or Warner does action sequences.

Idk man i just get tired and call it all cartoons

Interestingly, the big round eyes that Tezuka made popular with Astro Boy were probably inspired by the American animation character Betty Boop. Tezuka, not only being very inspired by animators like Walt Disney and Max Fleischer, was also a big fan of Betty Boop.

@@Cryptic.Message Yes. I have read that the large eyes were also used to more easily show the characters' emotions. The "window into the soul" idea. Nevertheless, it confused me and many Americans who expected animations from Japan to look, er..., more Japanese. Then again, Anime often has other distinctive styles like characters with unusual hairstyles, or my favorite, kids who wear goggles for no particular reason (like Tai from Digimon).

Japanese consider ALL cartoons, as ANIME(Animation)... They also include Tokusatsu/Puppetry/CGI/Claymation as animations... Stop splitting hairs. "Japanime" is Japanese-originating CARTOONS...

I find all the arguments about what qualifies as "anime" ridiculous. I mainly wanted to point out that people in the US had been watching animation from Japan long before the term "anime" even entered the English lexicon. Indeed it was not always differentiated from its western counterparts. As Geoff pointed out, even your definition of "Japanime" becomes mudded once you realize that ideas for content animated inside Japan does not always originate there; not everyone in Japan who is involved in animation (however you choose to define it) is ethnically Japanese; and even some animation written or directed by someone from Japan can be outsourced to another country.

@@ynraider "Japanime" isn't even a term that's really used by anyone anymore, the only people who use it are old heads who were anime fans in the 80s and 90s. Because that's when that term was popular, but anime was also a way more niche interest than it is now(in the West). The vast majority of the Western anime community does not use the term japanime anymore, the more generic "anime" is what is used by pretty much everyone now instead.

honestly we still do, lets be real if we just become complacent to what is and isn't it just leads to the industry becoming worse there IS a line, and really this one isn't either, sure its made by a jp studio but it is a western work that already was inspired by it, its no surprise it FEELS anime but that's not anymore than say a "Totally Spies"

@@marcusclark1339 We really don't, and yo did you watch the video? Geoff makes too good a case

​@@marcusclark1339 "that just leads to the industry getting worse" -citation needed. also thats litterlally just a slippery slope fallacy

​@@marcusclark1339 also hold up so anything "inspired by" a western work isn't anime? lol. geoff is right, you are an unserious person.

Truth.

But... by definition, it is? Any anime can be legitimately called a cartoon.

@@BalrogQuote It depends. From my experience Japan refers to all cartoons as anime, but the US is more likely to refer to shows produced in Japan by Japanese leads as anime. This is why No Game No Life is still considered an anime despite it being made by a Brazilian who lived in Japan for almost his whole life, but why something like Avatar the Last Airbender or Teen Titans are not despite the heavy Japanese influence.

Panty and Stocking is an adult cartoon like South Park or Drawn Together or Mr Bigmouth. It's not an anime.

Panty and Stocking is anime, Scott Pilgrim isn't. What are you talking about??

i call panty and stocking a cartoon because it follows the conventions of adult cartoons in the west much more than the conventions of anime. i also call atla anime

That is bot even counting FMAB bots

In short, MAL is the reddit of the anime/manga media.

@@mayconlcruzthis. 100%

I still don't get how Brotherhood is rated number 1 on that site. It's a good show, but definitely not that great lol.

​@@markn7519I think it's high ranking says less about the show and more about the demographics of people who use MAL. most of the top rated shows tend to be shounen or seinen, and I've found that it's a pretty common pattern for shoujo, BL, kids shows, or anything else not made for its main demographic to be rated lower

That was still anime, although an imitation but still an anime. Scott Piggy doesn't imitate anything.

@@HolyRamanRajyano, you’re correct: it’s just some cool anime.

That’s what I’ve been claiming since high school

I'm an anime fan but I don't draw such a firm line, I just call it as I see it. If I watch something wanting anime and leave satisfied, it's anime in my book

I am not an anime fan, I am a things I like fan. And I liked Scott Pilgrim Takes Off. I don't care whether it's anime or not.

Staying "in those lines" is how art suffocates. So much of art across generations, time periods, and mediums exists because people saw the lines others drew on art and said "Nah, fuck that" and created in defiance of the lines. The lines do not matter, and staying in the lines is just hurting yourself.

Japanese consider ALL cartoons, as ANIME(Animation)... They also include Tokusatsu/Puppetry/CGI/Claymation as animations... Stop splitting hairs. "Japanime" is Japanese-originating CARTOONS...

And not even in all Western countries, I've heard that in France the word for animation is "dessin anime" or just anime for short, so in order to differentiate Japanese animation from ones from other countries they call the "mangas" Kind of reminds me how here in Spanish-speaking Latin America some fans jokingly call anime "monos chinos" (Chinese monkeys), as a sort reference how cartoon characters used to be referred as "monos animados" (animated monkeys) and Chinese instead of Japanese as a joke against people that can't tell the difference between different Asian cultures

Yeah but we not speaking Japanese so in English anime specifically means a style of cartoon dominated by Japanese creators but not exclusive to them

That's the literal origin of the word if you want to subtract the cultural context it's been used with. A certain style of animation from Japan through a western perspective to identify and categorize it. It's the same principle of calling both attack on titan and intial D mecha shows when there is are loosely defined aesthetics and other expectations or calling a hotdog a sandwich Yes it is hard to define but I don't think extending "anime" to all of animation like the Japanese do is a good enough solution

@@pablocasas5906 In France, we use the word "Manga" to describe Japanese comic books (we're the second biggest market after Japan). We also use the word "Anime" to talk about Japanese cartoons. "Dessin animés" is just the direct translation of "Cartoons". But yes, totally agree that this debate is really pointless, even more so now that adult animation is taken seriously on all sides of the globe. Even if France remains a big weebs nation XD

@@Dwayne971 thanks for the clarification. Speaking about France, for some reason the opening song for Saint Seiya's, or Los Caballeros del Zodiaco, Latin America Spanish dub kept the European Spanish version which itself was a cover of the French version

I would welcome anime databases evolving into databases for all animation, same with manga and comics. Just who knows how many animations and comics we are missing out cause we dont have spaces where thats made more widely available to notice and discuss about. So many YT channels dont talk about the wide depth of western animation and comics cause the loudest are super hero DC and Marvel, the niche stuff gets swept aside. Its where logic fallacies like the "western animation and comics are failing" come from, cause they trapped themselves in the bubble, and that bubble needs to get popped so we can have less ignorant discussions about animation in general. The whole east vs west argument should stop being a thing.

perfectly put 🙌

@@diydylana3151 Except it's not. It has been an Japanese, Chinese, and Korean database for some years now, it has long stopped being just anime related site.

TheTVDB is the general database. But it's just a database, just cataloging the info on series (and now movies). There's no place for reviews, discussion, or community. That's not really the job of a "database". MAL combines a database with forums, personal lists/watch history tracking, reviews, news, articles, etc.

​@@diydylana3151 "They make a lot of animation, and unique stuff that is barely released elsewhere at that." Those are pretty BIG fucking reasons WHY Japan is put on pedestal. What's not to like about that? Maybe if other countries released stuff 1/10 as engaging/ impressive as what Japan releases on a wide scale, year after year (even duds are visually amazing), they'd share in the spotlight, but they don't. So Japan gets all the attention. Seems logical.

Honestly most of the tension comes from how much animosity there used to be towards anime fans. You would get laughed out of most comic shops if you went in looking for Manga. Hell I still get stink eyes and lame attitudes if I go into a comic store and ask if they have an anime or manga section. The reason most of the anime community got specific about keeping it specific to Japan was that Japan was pushing all kinds of boundaries that western shows wouldn't even touch. I mean I still can't think of any cartoons off hand that are somewhat serious romantic dramas & there are maybe a small handful that could be categorized as psychological thrillers in the vein of Perfect Blue or Erased. So anime fans got protective of the phrase as a means of both pride & as a means to differentiate themselves as a community from the comic community who openly ostracized the already looked down on anime fans. When I was growing up in the 90's & 2000's it was like painting a target on your back to call yourself an anime fan. So watching a bunch of people take this thing you love, then call completely unrelated shows "anime" felt like an attack against you personally. Since it took that kind of resolve to stay in a fandom that would have gotten hou socially ostracized. Most modern fans don't have that context any more. It's vastly more popular and the lines have blurred. I used to care more about it (and to be honest I still make the differentiation), but I care less about what other people call it now since the stigma isn't around in the same way it used to be. It feels less offensive & threatening to see studio execs & random casual fans call Castlevania an "anime" when they are at least still supporting shows like Attack on Titan and Your Name.

@@Skapo idk i still see the stigma being there. Like when a bunch of Kpop idols talked about liking Made in Abyss they got randomly attacked for it. Sure it's less of a problem than it used to be but don't you think that this whole debate is still as strong as it is because that stigma is still around?

​@Skapo you should just never let something you enjoy define your personality, or cause personal offense when someone else holds a different opinion about said hobby.

How can anime be a style or genre, though? It's not like every anime has a distinctive style, format or characteristic that's shared in all productions. It's too varied for that.

Anime is just a French loan word anyway. Seems a bit pointless to make any differentiation.

Its like the modern day Equivalent of OVA VHS's

No wonder they are almost all misses, with the very rare hit.

@@mfmageiwatch the same applies for ovas lol

They’ll let you do anything, but only for one season

​@@samhermes5582 Unless it's terrible, then you get 20

It’s because it’s overly cartoonish that I don’t think it should be called an anime. The style just does not feel like anime unlike other “anime” shows by western and Chinese studios that more or less fit that style.

Then is Lego Monkie Kid anime because it's beautifully animated and has serious plots? What about clone wars, or transformers prime or Rise of the TMNT or Steven Universe? Anime is just Japan shortening the word for animation. So why do we talk about it like a genres?

If you have read the guidelines on what makes it into the database you would see they made an exception for Chinese and Korean animated shows, why they get a pass and not american shows?? Idk take it up with them, but my assumption is because they are eastern made just like anime

​@@fabrijdiaz7288yes, it's because they're asian.

​@@NeoDark93@fabrijdiaz7288 Which is dumb! Since when does anime include chinese and korean production? We even have different names for them, and if we do include them, then other Chinese, Korean, + other asian/western co-productions like both Avatars should be included. It is simply not consistent.

If it's western it's objectively bad. - MAL staff probably

​@@NeoDark93isnt the creator of NGNL part Brazillian?

JAXBLAAAAAADE!! How have you been lately? I loved your appearances on Bronies React!

"Anime fans come to anime to get away from animated toy commercials." With how they're selling anime figurines I find this difficult to believe.

This is the objectively correct answer. Rent a Girlfriend is made in Japan and not good. Teen Titans is good and not made in Japan.

And like, its not like Japanese animators don't take inspiration from western animation. Its like music genre arguments: fans will define themselves with rigid adherence to a single genre while the musicians in that genre are like "OK but what if I take that Brahms melody and mix it with a Kate Bush sample and get Tom Morello to do vocals?"

That is the correct question. Unfortunately, the answer is no.

@@Owesomasaurus nah even musicians have their lines. remixes are a touchy subject by some.

Also little Nemo was a Co pro diction between TMS USA and TMS Japan

It's definitely the most inspired ad read I've seen since Chizuru's Granny segment in the Rent-A-Girlfriend video.

She got the right hair

I do actually really enjoy his ads, it's the only channel I don't skip the ad reads because they're all unique and fun, not just reading a souless mass produced ad text. I still never by anything because ads never make me want to buy stuff, but I watch the ones here! Also Yazzy as Ramona is a perfect fit. ... Ramona cosplay when? (It's possible It was done already and I just missed).

@@RatoInsano Some ads do make me want want to buy stuff, but then I see "$15 off" and get scared by how much the total price must be if that's just a fraction. I'm struggling enough just affording normal groceries, thank you.

Also how much of Japanese cartoons are inspired by Chinese books like Journey To The West, which itself dates back orally, and as very different shorts and folk myths in India 300 years before publication even in China. So, at this stage, what is the point, What is the debate? Nothing is "pure" Whatever that means anyways.

What do you mean it lacks foreign allure? It’s Canadian. That shit is exotic as hell.

@@IAMzap Still Anglo. Also I think some of the MAL mods are Canadian themselves.

@@Hawkatana The, "I liked this band before it was cool" argument taken to cultures.

I think you are spot on. It’s wild to me that the Asian fetish even extends to anime since most the characters don’t look anything remotely Asian. Face shape, hair color, hair style, body shape, height is all off. Like even ignoring the fashion hair colors, really only the male protagonist might have hair reminiscent of traditionally Asian hair texture and color.

The term you're talking about is weeaboo, a derogatory term for a delusional psychotic obsessed with japanese culture without any actual understanding of the genuine culture beyond their delusions of it.

Thanks for the correction!

As a french person, i can assure you, you have no idea how deep it goes

There is no such thing as "French anime" just as there isn't "American anime". They might be inspired by anime, but there can only be Japanese anime (which is redundant saying it because it's just anime)

@@fabrijdiaz7288 lol. lmao even

@@gabrielfeldinger6533 nice argument

Wakfu and Dofus are pretty good. Both definitely inspired by anime but Waku is more flash animated (budget TV-series that was backed) but as the series goes on, they use more traditionally animated techniques. Dofus is like a combination of both anime and flash animation techniques.

Oh yeah, the original Cyberpunk tabletop game only came to exist because Mike Pondsmith is a big ol' japanese media enthusiast.

Wait..... is that true?

@@TheDiabeticGameMaster yeah, the creator literally stated they were watching drawn together and were surprised that the show was able to get away with stuff that offensive, so they decided to do their own version

Things that led to the production of good anime in the future can still be called war crimes. Consider the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945

⁠​⁠@@hasch5756 Good luck telling that to Ichimonji Hayato-Kamen Rider Nigo since he was literally tortured and experimented by Unit 731, especially that ones that escaped from Operation Paperclip. The dude was turned into a cyborg without consent and he made a weapon to withstand nukes. Luckily, he broke free from Takeshi Hongo-Kamen Rider Ichigo. But still absolutely infuriated and even angry at his country.

Japanese consider ALL cartoons, as ANIME(Animation)... They also include Tokusatsu/Puppetry/CGI/Claymation as animations... Stop splitting hairs. "Japanime" is Japanese-originating CARTOONS...

why the hell did they ban link click there?

@@geckopecko because there's a separate subreddit for donghua/chinese animation

@@geckopecko bigger question why Link Click is considered anime according to MAL.

@@HolyRamanRajya MAL also allows aeni (korean animation) and donghua (chinese animation)

bro have you seen twinkle nora rock me?

Dude, just accept that Scott Pilgrim Takes Off and The Last Airbender will never be as good as Conception or Ex-Arm.

I just set my lists to be private. I want a more detailed evaluation for my own benefit when looking back

@@Zhiroc Still, I've never liked number scores to begin with. If an anime makes me happy, I give it a 🙂. Any further clarification, I type it in the review box thingy.

i'm sad Yasuke turned out so dogshit. i got so hype for something like Rurouni Kenshin. i wanted to learn more about this dude in the medium i enjoy most :( Ya know what's weird? i have never gotten anyone attacking my list on MAL. Either people have chilled out or my list is too based. (def the second one of course 😌)

I love the rating options! I go with the 5-star system, mapping it to 'Hated it', 'Waste of my time', 'Worth my time', 'I was impressed', and 'Loved it'. Gives a little more granularity than just thumbs up/down. Also, the _real_ thing Anilist has going for it over MAL is the tag system. I don't look for stuff by rating any more, I browse the tags.

@@_kalia ohh I think I used it a few times to see what new mecha anime were coming every season?

I felt like I was sucked back to 5/6, somehow catching "late-night" programming

For a moment I felt like when I was little, and whenever they mentioned Argentina in an American show I'd point at the TV be like "That's where I live!"

I'm ashamed to have first found out about it via SaberSpark

In fairness, mobile games are *terrible* video games.

Yeah this is accurate, people (friends and family) use to know me as the anime guy 10-15 years ago and they still think I am but with the amount of anime the west now has access and how popular it is in the west now the average anime viewers probably know more shows than I do hahah

Certain shows hit the mainstream, but that doesn't mean anime itself is. I'm in the US and if I went anywhere and started talking to people like "Hey you ever heard of (random anime currently airing)?" no one would know what the fuck I'm talking about.

@@telzen8774that’s not true bro had my old boss talked about zom 100 as soon as it hit Netflix. Shows that are streaming services are getting newer and talked about all the time. I see people of all ages bring up shows that just came out.

@@telzen8774 It's more certain aspects of weeb culture have gotten popular and have honestly taken a life of their own. V-tubers and Mihoyoverse games really took off over the pandemic, and over in my country they've p much taken over conventions and are honestly mainstream, popular with normies. Older anime remains pretty niche tho.

TBQH western animation kinda deserved it.

@ukyoize Arcane? Spiderverse? Say what you will about children's cartoons but plenty of western properties are telling mature stories and pushing animation as an art form forward.

This might be a reflection of the west's attitude towards animation, at least an older generation's attitude. Cartoons aimed at adults in that space tend to just be an excuse to swear a lot, and show lots of blood and nudity. This isn't the case for everything, but there is a clear bias in many cases that's internalised

It also very blatantly ignores the even higher level of commercialization and cut corners anime has baked into the very core of its production. Anime is STILL at its core a vessel to sell you manga and lite novels, honestly in a way Transformers and X-Men weren't and still aren't (they're selling you toys and action figures, you know, like gunpla). On top of that every studio annually shafts several series, plenty that see acclaim even, by criminally under funding it and overworking/under staffing its production. Bastions of the medium have stories of pushing episodes to broadcasters the night before or day of because of production schedules, and some where the budget just ran out at a certain point and they kind of had to make do. There's an element of all of this that's just blatantly racist and purposeful exotification of a foreign people and continuing the tried and true western trope of the "noble savage" just in a different trench coat.

I feel like the anime community is, like, the only place that the 2000's need for edgy distinction for the sake of gatekeeping really persists in a predominant form

I think that's just because it was released in batch without much promotion.

I literally hadn't heard about it until this video, but it's definitely on my watchlist now.

@@samwich3292 It is still within the first month of release, so if you watch it soon, you’ll contribute to getting it renewed!

@@samwich3292 Yeah exactly. I just remember watching it's trailer and it looked interesting. I didn't know when it came out and haven't seen any discussion around it

Just sucks ass that one of the creators is a zionist

That would require defining what a "typical" anime look is, as well as answering why the Transformers OVA therefore qualifies despite looking identical to the rest of the transformers series. Also it would require ignoring that O'Malley clearly was at least partially influenced by anime when making his designs. It pretty obviously falls into the nebulous grey area between western and eastern cartoon styles. Put Scott Pilgrim next to Astro Boy or Panty and Stocking and one would be hard pressed without prior knowledge to determine which was created by the Western Artist.

@@evansageser6943 That was my point. There is no "typical" anime style. And Science Saru productions can range wildly in their aesthetic. But narrow minded gatekeepers will always confuse their personal preference with what is real and disregard anything that doesn't conform to those standards.

Me personally, I don't mind other people getting into anime, hell, I've gotten a lot of people into anime. However, I don't want people mixing up Dora the Explorer with say, Made in Abyss... for their sake. I make the distinction and let people know that anime allows certain things that others would find in bad taste. But if they are still cool with it, then go right ahead and enjoy.

That's because the focus isn't on gatekeeping. It's similar to the same issue as using the term Hispanic to refer to all Spanish speaking countries. You are correct, but like many you've also missed the point by lumping them together. However, media in the west seems desperate to try to lump every form of animation together, often citing how Japan uses anime to refer to all forms of animation. The problem is that this is not how the western community has described anime for the last 10 years. When the anime community uses anime, it used to be to specifically reference animation from Japan. This is why the geographic factor was such an important thing for animation. This was to distinguish them from donghua, such as The King's Avatar, which is used to identify animation from China. By comparison, Korean animation is just manwha (shortened from manhwa yeonghwa) due to Chinese influences. To simply fold all the animation into one anime is similar to using the term hispanic to describe anyone who speaks Spanish. It's completely missing the point and a bad faith argument at best. But like with most debates nowadays, the original meaning of the word was been lost and everyone seems to be focusing on a point that someone else in the media made up.

I remember buying anime in the mall back before Toonami was a thing. Buying dubbed VHS was cheaper than subtitled VHS. I would have loved to get some on Laserdisc, but we didn't have a player.

It's probably less about it being anime, and more about it being scott pilgrim but they wanted an excuse to exclude it. Which I'm fine with, they could have just said that.

Listen, dont mix Anime with Donghua and Aeni. Each of them deserve to be view on their own terms instead of umbrella under anime cause "east asian stuff look the same" type of nonsense.

In a world like that, fandoms (in the sense of that large movement that cultures the habit of make a piece of media a core value of your personality) doesn't exist.

@@mayconlcruz okay, but can cartoon and anime fans stop acting like they're worlds apart from each other, and manga and comic fans join in the fact that its literally just the same medium from different countries, no different from "Miracleman" being from Britain originally and "Superman" being from american, yet both still counting as comics.

The worst is those jabronies who get outraged when an anime adaptation isn't an exact copy of the manga. Bruh if you want the manga it still exists. By definition an adaptation is not an exact copy. You can't pace an animation the same as an individually read manga.

I have to imagine it since it’s not reality.

The word fan stems from the word "fanatic", an explicitly negative term used to dehumanize specific groups of people (whether rightfully so or not is something I won't touch on personally).

AniList has been the superior site for years. Geoff called it AniChart since iirc they got famous from that side of their service first.

Never allow an anonymous group of people decision rights on anything.There is no way to be certain that the voting would be honest and not flooded by bots and trolls screwing the results. This will certainly happen cause MAL has a large group of users that dont know what they are talking about, and some of them are mods that share that line of thinking...which is why we have this mess to begin with.

When Gigguk made a video saying Anime was a brand, I really disliked it, because a brand is something a single company owns. Anime is an artistic movement, in the same vein as Impressionism or Noir film.

I can agree that both Avatar and Castlevania are anime influenced, I'd even add Wakfu/Dofus in there. But there is no way I would mistaken any of them for anime, and that's NOT a bad thing. It's what allows them to be their own thing.

Stephen Universe? Anime. The Owl House? Anime. ATLA and TLOK? Anime. Literally every good animated show I can think of has at least enough anime influence that I think it counts, to be honest. Genuinely can't think of one that doesn't.

​@GoodwillWright Okay but you're lying. Because they both clearly look like anime. Why wouldn't they be anime? What's that nail in the coffin that says "nope, not anime" to you? It doesn't exist. ESPECIALLY with Castlevania.

I still disagree with this. If anything the increase in cross cultural influence on design has drawn more attention to how the bigger difference is in staging, pacing, and timing. I'm not sure if this is down to regional differences in production practices or just cultural practices being passed down in the industry. I don't think these practices or the aesthetics they've cultivated are inherent to a region's industry but I do think they're ingrained. To even try and intentionally replicate them I think you'd have to go look at how and why the animation was made, rather than the end result. That said the growth of overseas collaboration or even just animators working globally, on a level above outsourcing, does allow for more cross cultural pollination and may further erode distinctions.

Did you move to Japan or were you born there? I’d love to work in animation in Japan

Japanese persona definition of anime: must have a japanese dub (optional)

Pretty sure this comes from a time when Western animation was almost entirely episodic and kid friendly. The distinction is getting less and less important for Western audiences as time passes and we see more Western series with character development and serious themes. But it really was a meaningful distinction for us back then.

That kind of reminds me of a old poll that made in Japan asking people their favorite anime and, while the majority of the list was composed of anime, Tom & Jerry was the only cartoon included, because honestly, T&J is beloved all over the world That also reminds me that two of the most important anime magazines featured two Western animated productions in some of their covers. Animage dedicated a cover to When the Wind Blows and Newtype featured Who Framed Roger Rabbit

Noooooooo

I thought we left that in the dirt when a Japanese guy considered the minions movie anime.

Its 100% an anime I am 4 eps in and yea. Its def not a cartoon.

Makes sense for me.

Probably what allows anime to be anime is the fact Japan can work people that hard. You won't really see it normally from "western" places because most people wouldn't do that type of work for a burger-flipper salary. So I don't think the line will be blurred anytime soon.

You're so right though. AtLA's animation still has the underlying vibe of a western cartoon, and Panty and Stocking is still unmistakably anime. These two worlds are on some deeper, fundamental level incapable of perfectly imitating each other, and so it seems the only things that truly bridge the gap are international productions. Scott Pilgrim comes a lot closer to looking like an authentic American cartoon than Panty and Stocking did but you can still just _feel_ the anime in its core DNA.

@@GoodwillWright that's not how animation works

@@gota7738 Animation and work culture go hand-in-hand. I'm not saying that's the only reason that makes anime anime. But do you think anime would still be sustainable if Japan was paying their animators (Taiwan, South Korea, China as well) the same as you would be paid in say the US? Plus only working 8-10 hour days and having privileges? I'm not saying that other places can't make "Japanese-like" animation. But it would be an incredibly different process from board to board.

@@GoodwillWright I think it would be more sustainable yes. Time is useful but good animation comes from organisation, thought and skill. Exhaustion undermines two of those and hampers the last one. All the time in the world won't save a poorly organised production and you need more than hard work for animation, you need knowledge and problem solving. To be clear I don't think what differentiates anime is quality. What unites poor quality to good quality anime and differentiates the output from other nations output is a particular approach to pacing, staging and timing.

Yeah gonna make a video on that soon enough

You can watch anything if you know how to use a computer

@@ukyoize I'm aware, I just only resort to that if there is no other option...

@@fanror And now its getting even worse when some westerners put Chinese and Korean stuff under Japanamation.