Apple Agrees to Turn on RCS for the iPhone! 

Not by choice, but a nice thing to see

@@CatholicShrimp That's the irony in my post.

The FBI and CIA will love it too

finally being forced to adopt*

I think apple has finally understood what android users have really wanted for ages and how to do it better.

😂😂

lol

Wow what an original comment!

a 2008 tech, sms and mms are way back from the 1998

They won’t call it RCS. It’ll be something like Hyperactive Messages aka HAM

Finally found this comment, I was sure someone posted it. Thank you

So WhatsApp is more secure because it is end-to-end and RCS uses inferior encryption? Is it less secure than WhatsApp?

@@WenderHurteronly more secure than standard RCS. Google added end to end for their version of it. Basically it’s apple being a brat as usual

Yeah if there's an explicit decision not to call it end to end that implies that it's decrypted at some point

Yep, it is in the GSMA RCS Universal Profile v2.4 chapter 16. The service encrypts network connections between the computers that handle RCS messages (using HTTPS or IPSEC). So, between the servers that handle the messages, and I believe also between the clients and servers. So, it is encryption for every network connection that needs to be made while moving each RCS message through the network. A hop-by-hop encryption, if you will. And in-between, on these servers, the messages are available in the clear. Google has implemented end-to-end encryption (E2EE) in their messages clients to make sure that even the servers don’t see clear text messages (see “Messages End-to-End Encryption Overview Technical Paper”, February 2022). Apple could of course do the same. But to make their E2EE work with Google’s E2EE, they need to cooperate on this. And who pays for this? Google has already paid (and they are probably in maintenance mode for this now), and Apple is catching up. Ultimately, the users of their mobile device products pay, by buying those devices. The messaging services that come with them are selling points for their products, and I am sure the provisioning of these services are priced into the device prices. And for messages sent, customers pay their mobile network providers.

Feels to me this is intentional so Apple has a simple thing to explain to the general public that iMessage is more secure.

Encrypted in transit means that your messages can be decrypted at the server. End-to-end means only the end devices can decrypt it. Simple.

Bro you’re talking about Google. They profit off of collecting user data. Y do you think Google assistant is better than the competition? Why is Google maps better? Exactly. The collect and keep all your data and will happily hand it over to law enforcement and prob hands it over to anyone if the money is good. Ain’t nothing encrypted when it comes to Google.

It’s perfectly feasible to have a standard that carries your text encrypted and-to-end even in that scenario. It’s been done since forever with emails and GPG/PGP, albeit “manually”. Cheers.

I think this issue of green bubble vs blue bubble kind of thing is mostly a US societal issue. Outside of the US, it's not as much since most people use third party messaging apps like WhatsApp, Viber, Telegram, and even Messenger

😊 ooo

😊ii😊ii😊i😊i😊i😊ii😊ui😊i😊ii😊i

Apple already split people between iMessage and sms. They're probably just upgrading in anticipation that sms will go away.

I don't think this is it though because they already had that competition with third party apps - the market they're controlling that's demanding blue bubbles don't really think of WhatsApp and such as options. It probably is regulatory, even if they're not being forced yet they're probably anticipating some action to force them and trying to get some good PR for it

@Potatobitz there's no reason for them to change it. The signal protocol is very good. It's used by whatsapp and fb messenger secret conversations as well. Have you seen an article saying that google changed it?

@Potatobitz it’s still true today according to wikipedia. In fact, group messages e2e was only introduced a few months ago

That still means it's not standards compliant with RCS, hence why Apple didn't want to implement it

@@user-ee4dt7tq3k learn the difference between privacy and encryption

@@user-ee4dt7tq3k Android mics, maybe. The whole phenomenon of "I was just talking about X and now I get ads for X" was just a myth to me until I started living with someone who had an Android phone.

Does imessage say what it is next to it? My android will say mms or sms or whatever in small text next to the message.

⁠@@tomrwillsif the message turns to sms or mms it will always turn green.

@@tomrwillson top of a group of chat bubbles it says via iMessage or via SMS

SMS will eventually be discontinued in US atleast because it already runs on the internet so no need for it.

Yeah there’s times iMessages turn green and become just a text message even from iPhone to iPhone if the cell service or internet downgraded or got lower.

Tru, cause we know the US won't.

​@@acecarpenter502the Internet is just a series of tubes, right Congress?

USA won;'t do it cause they want all to use apple because is a american company @@acecarpenter502

In the US we had a lot of freedoms protected in our founding documents that I’m sure the EU citizens are envious of but very little has been done to protect consumers from abusive business practices and poisonous food. It’s a disgrace and the EU is miles ahead of the US in protecting their people from the most nefarious business and food practices.

@@Sweetskis freedoms for white landowning males*

So is the term in-transit equivalent to a TLS? I could be wrong but I think TLS is supposedly securing the communication between the sender and receiver.

@@Kurotaka_ yes! That is correct.

Technically end to end is still a form of in transit encryption (the term doesn't imply that the data is encrypted at rest on your phone), it's just more specific that only the clients on either end can access the data, and not any of the intermediate servers

Or how a traditional client to corporate network VPN works. Where the tunnel is encrypted, but the data pass through it, is not. @@bosstowndynamics5488

This explanation deserves to be at the top more than the one that's at the top right now

The terms "Encrypted In Transit" and "End-to-End Encryption" refer to different levels and methods of securing digital communications, such as SMS messages. Understanding these differences is crucial for appreciating the security level of a messaging system. 1. Encrypted In Transit: - This means that messages are encrypted as they travel over the network (e.g., the internet or cellular networks) from the sender to the receiver. - The encryption typically occurs as the message leaves the sender's device and is decrypted when it arrives at the recipient's service provider or server. - The key aspect here is that while the message is protected against interception during transit, the service provider or server through which the message passes has the ability to decrypt and read the message. - For SMS, standard text messages sent over cellular networks are usually encrypted in transit. However, they can be accessed or read by the service provider. 2. End-to-End Encryption (E2EE): - In this scenario, messages are encrypted on the sender's device and only decrypted on the recipient's device. - The key feature of E2EE is that no intermediary (not even the service providers or the servers that facilitate the transmission of the message) can decrypt and read the message during its transit. - This type of encryption provides a higher level of security, as it ensures that only the intended recipients can read the message. - Traditional SMS does not support end-to-end encryption. This level of security is typically found in modern messaging apps like WhatsApp, Signal, and Telegram. In summary, while "Encrypted In Transit" protects messages during their journey through a network, it does not prevent access by service providers or intermediaries. "End-to-End Encryption," on the other hand, ensures that only the communicating users can access the message content, offering a significantly higher level of security. Traditional SMS messages, due to their inherent network architecture and standards, do not support end-to-end encryption.

@@Funkteonthank you for the explanation. Is iMessage or android rcs to another android rcs considered end-to-end encryption?

@@WardoUSANo - the standard does not support end-to-end encryption. That was by design. It could be built on top of it but it is not a part of the standard being used so it is not possible without bolting something on top of it or switching to something else.

What if they instead encrypted recipient data in transit and the message content end-to-end? Look, many people are tired of this phrase is various contexts, but it's very very valid when it's about IT: "if they wanted to, they would". The limits to IT are quantum mechanics and your imagination. Nothing else. I'm saying this as a software developer.

How disappointing it’s 2023

​@@breezydagreat12To be fair, it's hard to design an E2E encryption scheme for company-agnostic messages that can be formalized in a spec that the industry is happy with. It has basically never been done before. E2E encryption for messaging within an individual company's ecosystem is trivial in comparison.

So many things you guys said, I have no clue about. Gatekeepers and RCS. I don’t know anyone that dose t use WhatsApp.

​@@207GTBEEI don't know anyone who does use Whatsapp

@@207GTBEE FACEBOOK is another Gatekeeper with WhatsApp. It's the same thing

All encryption/Tor/VPNs are pointless when these companies/governments can watch your screen in real time through hardware "exploits"- purposely built into every consumer electronics CPUs/SOCs produced after 2009. (Doesn't mean they do, they just have the capabilities)

And 5g logo can now be official instead of a great value version

That and they were about to get regulated into it.

Unfortunately from all the comments I've seen on tiktok, some are strongly against the notion of "being forced" to adopt rcs because they really dislike people who use Android. I agree that it should be implemented as being on as the default option, but iSheep will cry about it. And Apple may foresee this and implement it but while still keeping rcs messages as a shade of green to keep the iSheep happy.

@hugthynug4081 I believe it. It seems many Apple users would even take a thoroughly inferior if it was made by Apple. What exactly is the issue they have with using RCS? I guess they would rather lag behind the rest of the world in the name of, "but iMessage is better!"

@@hugthynug4081 well suck to he them but carriers could just kill SMS and hipster fanbois can suck it.

​@@hugthynug4081Most normal people do not give a fuck, I assure you

@@hamzerpanzer They are the normal people, being normal is "fitting in". And Apple users are addicted to fitting in

I would argue that end to end encryption is a form of transit encryption since the message is encrypted for transit between the devices, the difference is that only the devices on either end have the keys

@@bosstowndynamics5488 it is but the common nomenclature is that end to end means device to device, whereas encryption in transit is the communication from client to server or server to server. Transit encryotion is typically to protect against network eavesdroppers, but doesn't stop each network endpoint from potentially collecting all the traffic for later decryption (think Snowden, PRISM, Room 641A). Even with end to end encryption you may have some information that can be gathered because the message has to be routed -- a classic example is PGP encrypted email where the body is encrypted but the to/from is in the clear because how else would the mail server know where to send the mail.

I heard that only Americans have this problem right? Cause as far as I know, most of my friends who use iphones defaults to Whatsapp either way

​@@AAmxsthis is true. The bubble color thing is only an issue because of the differences in how the US and the rest of the world charge for data and text plans. In the US unlimited texts plans have been very common in most popular cellular deals, while in the rest of the phone using world data seems to be cheaper than in the US. The other factor is Apple being assholes and US citizens are petty and uneducated.

This was apples fault tho. It was to purposely make you buy an iPhone. And it definitely worked on kids and teens the most. And yes Americans mostly have this issue. Cause they rather use the stock iMessage app on iPhone which doesn’t usually work well with texts from an android. That’s what rcs is going to fix. Some people here still will uses WhatsApp or something else to text iPhone to Android if they need to but many do make a big deal about it here since there brains are the size of a lentil bean

I mean, it sounds like they don't have a choice, they can't loose all European customers

Apple does many things but phones are meant to communicate with each other. Apple refusing to work with anything outside of iMessage was almost entirely marketing decision based on the idiotic bubble colors and making it difficult for Android users to send data and work correctly in group chats. They have emails from executives where they admit this.

I completely agree, but I do like the direction they are heading in. Even though it is forced on them by the eu, I really like what they are being forced to do and the steps they are taking to make it seamless. I also switched to iphone because it was nice to see apple change the direction they are heading in!

@@SaintKinesexactly! It was very anti consumer and was on purpose! Look at all the kids that like these overheating super obnoxiously loud pieces of crap phones lol it can’t even keep a signal without resetting the bars all the time sorry not sorry I tried iPhone and it ain’t for me. I like my androids. Emulation is one of my favorite things and that’s way easier on androids while iPhones are on their way to being more side load friendly who knows if that still will be a process.

Well, unfortunately it is already confirmed that the bubble for RCS will be green as well...

​@@chengyoujiang6076Who confirmed it tho? Even RCS and SMS have different colored bubbles on android. The distinct appearance of each protocol is very necessary.

​@@xperiafan5370why is it necessary when it tells you under the bubble which one it is in plain text? At least on my Pixel it does.

@@SaintKinesit doesn’t do that on iPhone. The text bubble color lets you know what’s what

@@FNJ720 I see. That is a problem

You had me there till you said Linux

We can also thank the EU for handing Google a monopoly on browser engines. It's been downhill since GDPR and I wish they'd stop sticking their oar in

​@naveenchowdhury5974 Why the hate for linux? Lot of servers run off linux and it's powerful more than enough for 90% of casual users. Tons of distros for different purposes and efficient on hardware.

@@kwl189You have literally just explained the most fundamental issue that Linux has which is the level of fragmentation. If I find a guide for installing software on Ubuntu, it's not guaranteed to work on Pop! or Manjaro ETC. People just want an OS that works and Linux just is not there as a desktop OS yet. It's great for systems built on it that can avoid fragmentation (like the Steam Deck) but it's not user friendly enough

My phone my choice.

I've seen so many versions of this but I don't think this quite explains it right - the messages are encrypted either way,* the only question is who has the keys. Yes, *typically* transit encryption uses a lower level protocol to do the encryption but there's been plenty of messaging apps in the past that claimed encryption by implementing application layer transit encryption without it being end to end. *Notably, they aren't encrypted on the end points even with E2EE, if the messages are stored encrypted on the device then that's done using a separate standard, not the E2EE protocol.

@@bosstowndynamics5488 The point you brought up is exactly why I used the generic wording of "it will use encryption methods LIKE TLS to encrypt the data". You are definitely right that there are many applications that don't use established encryption methods, but that is not the norm. Most applications are going to be built on top of common server stacks which will natively support lower layer encryption methods like TLS, and any smart dev will choose to use off-the-shelf established encryption methods over writing their own. As an example, see the excerpt below from the RCS v2.5 standard which specifically calls out to use common encryption standards like TLS and IPsec. As for your key point, we're saying the same thing. When you only encrypt in transit, then each client/server hop will by definition have the key to decrypt that communication. With a secure E2EE key exchange, only the end devices should have that key, but yes there would need to be verification that the data at rest is also securely stored. RCS Standard Version 2.5: 16.3.3 Encryption The User Network Interface transactions should be always encrypted to prevent eavesdropping of the user’s personal communication in the various access and transit networks. RCS makes use of the common encryption protocols, i.e. Transport Layer Security and IPsec. Clients conforming to the profile defined in this document shall support the encryption for all signalling and media traffic technologies described in this document.

@@BAoxymoron What I'm getting at is that a lot of people, yourself included, are calling the messages in transit encryption "unencrypted" when they are absolutely encrypted - even if they're done by lower level protocols, they're still encrypted, and if they're encrypted at the application level (which can be done by off the shelf libraries still) then they're even encrypted before leaving the app, just like E2EE, it's just that the service provider has the ability to decrypt them as well as the recipient. I feel this is an important point to clarify, since standard transit encryption still protects against third party message interception even if it doesn't protect against the service provider. E2EE is the best option, but transit encryption is still a form of encryption that still locks out some potential attackers.

On android it tells you whether or not the person you are texting with is using SMS or RCS. Without coloring the bubbles. It's right under the bubble on my Pixel 7.

@@SaintKines I have a Pixel 8 pro and my RCS chats are deep blue bubbles while my SMS chats are a light lavender bubble. It does also say whether it's SMS or RCS also, yes but the color differentiation also helps.

Purple is too “beautiful”. The reason that Apple uses light green bubble with white text to represent is making communication with Android look ugly. Therefore, using purple to represent RCS messages is not an option to Apple. If they have to use another colour to represent RCS messages, probably they would use light orange with white text.

@@tsmc689 it absolutely _is_ an option for Apple, as iMessage is their proprietary software so ultimately, they get to choose what colors to make the bubbles. The thing about purple is that both it, and green are both secondary colors when mixing blue, the color of iMessage bubbles, with other primary colors. Blue plus yellow is green, which is the color of SMS chats. Blue plus red is purple, and this is why I think it should be the color of RCS chats. Both colors are somehow related to blue.

@@tsmc689 it's wishful thinking, but since Google is helping Apple implement RCS, I hope they can convince Apple to use purple

Cause it’s fun to play games seamlessly with someone you’re chatting to?

Everyone with an iPhone has the Messages app. So if you want to play a casual game of chess, 8-ball pool, etc with your friend, there's no "hey can you download this specific app", and fumbling around creating/joining a game. You just send the chess board with your first move and the friend taps on it to install and send their move. Also, it just integrates well with text conversation. Send a message/reaction, send your move within the same chat.

@@mlfboys I mean you have to install game pigeon, but who hasn't done that?

@@aaronlarson4358 yeah and if you do have to download it cause it’s your first time, it’s quick, easy, and a one-off. After that it’s so easy to just start a game

Right you rather do that crap or play ps2 and switch games free on a android phone iPhone people are simpletons android has all those types of games and more

Can you call?

Are you sure? Most tablets are data only

​@@MashedzFruitzonly using facetime.

​@@zahirkhan778samsung aren't, they have call capabilities.

@@zahirkhan778 Cellular-capable Android tablets can send and receive text messages, although this feature can be disabled by the wireless carrier… as opposed to Apple tablets where this feature is always disabled by Apple (except for certain carrier-originated texts which are allowed through).

Same for Germany. iPhone users use WhatsApp here. Many use Telegram as well, but keep in mind that default chats in Telegram are NOT encrypted at all, stored on some Russian servers where nobody knows how they're financed.

​@@rausbclarification: the messages are stored in encrypted form in the Russian servers(just not e2e encrypted). What that means is that, telegram has the key to decrypt that message so they can decrypt and read it if needed. It's not stored as plain text.

Same in all Latin America countries.

Same in the UK

Right

Before Apple could even peek out the window at it it was born, lived, died, and its dust lost to the wind.

Pretty dumb idea lmfao

Na it was the EU telling Apple do it, or we will make you do it through even more laws, or you won't be able to sale your products here that don't comply.

They waited till the final day they had left too😂

Sideloading coming to iOS (EU nation only) yet no words by  . So RCS will also be coming to iOS but  won't mention it on WWDC.. cuz it'll promote iOS users that android can now have better experience.

End to end means only the messaging app can encrypt and decrypt messages. In transit encryption means that messages are sent in plaintext over an encrypted connection handled by the operating system.

​@@ControversialOpinionThe operating system doesn't necessarily manage the transport encryption - I don't know about phones, but for web apps the browser manages transport encryption generally, and before Signal and Telegram became defacto standards for encryption there were a load of messaging apps that implemented transport encryption at the application layer where it was basically exactly the same as E2EE for the client app with the only difference being that the server had the keys and could decrypt/re-encrypt the message to make group messaging easier to implement.

no stickers like whatsapp tho

I am still surprised that even on Android or iOS neither have group messaging option the Blackberry had decades ago. In BB10 OS for Blackberry whenever you would type more than one person to type a group message to a check box would appear and if you left it unchecked it would be a regular group text with everyone seeing each persons replies. If you checked the box it would send all the folks in the text subject each the text and you would only receive single replies from each person, it was basically like bcc for email. It was simple and made the most since and still neither Android or Apple has this feature. How or why is that. It is very frustrating if you want to text various people the same message but not wanting to make a new group text.

Androids do have this feature... For sure the Google Pixels & Samsung Galaxy Note do and have for years, I just don't use them 🤷🏽‍♀️

Who would want this? Most of the same functions exist within RCS, and it's arguably better because it's more independent...

What you said makes no sense. If something is truly end to end encrypted, the company can't know what the data is, so how then would the EU expect the companies to provide said data, other than to not use end to end encryption? The EU is fairly anti-encryption based on the whole "chat control" thing, which would simply make end to end encryption entirely illegal. However, there are no laws about it yet, thankfully.

Yeah I realized this too. Apple, google and Microsoft all have worked with the US government. But due to a gag order they do not have to inform the public of these activities.

iMessage is E2E encrypted. I'm not even an Apple user and I know that. One of the biggest draws of the iPhone is all of the encryption it has on board. I'm not sure what you're trying to imply with Apple's "absence of encryption" because if there were an absence, they would be talking about it.

First, who cares about their marketshare and why would effect it at all? I dont have an iPhone because they wont play well with others. And it shouldnt effect their ecosystem. We are talking bout messages here. It simliar to them only using a lightning connector....lol, why use something different? Ill tell ya why.....they dont give you a charger with it so they want you to buy their charger?cable and not some random cheaper charger and cable.

​@@Rayzaa101I don't care if Apple loses market share but since neither you nor I are the CEO of Apple we can't comment on what *they* will decide to do without considering their motivations, and maintaining market share is one of Apple's main motivations

The problem has never actually been the color of the bubbles though. The problem has been the difficulties sending messages and data between the 2. If those media and group chat problems are gone then the bubble color is absolutely meaningless outside of children and favorite colors.

Sounds childish

I’ve seen even reality show people in America make fun of one guy cause he said he was going to ask out one girl but a guy said well you have an android so… so unfortunately in America the iPhone epidemic is very real even among “grown” ass men lmao

​@@robmalcolm8042Don't they realize that some android flagships are more expensive than iPhones?

Android (and iOS for that matter) will have to support SMS/MMS as a legacy protocol for many, many years as it's still embedded in the usage of a lot of services and random bits of hardware, such as old ones, feature phones, and some categories of IoT devices, not to mention the continuing insistence of many services to use SMS OTPs

If I’m remembering how SMS and MMS works on messages from a Mac it should be fine. Basically the Mac can’t actually send the message and pings your iPhone to send it (this only works if the Mac and iPhone are on the same Wi-Fi network) and there’s a log on a server somewhere that saves the conversation and allows your Mac to see past texts. TLDR the Mac tells your phone to send the text so an older Mac should just be able to tell a newer iPhone to send an RCS message if the iPhone supports RCS.

This is true but it has its roots in a few things. Some of those being the way the US and rest of the world charge for data vs text plans and US citizens being retarded.

Yes, it works just as well

Google will still be google message IMessage will still be IMessage the only thing changing is communication between the two will become better.

Nobody outside of the US uses messages anyway

@Madeintheshade65 ah, ok. I guess if that's the case, some iPhone users won't complain about messaging someone on android

@justaguyfromreddit true. The usage of android phones is higher outside of US.... Even tho I'm a few hours away from the US border. You could include Canada into this statement as well. The amount of people I see using iPhone is crazy. A few weeks ago I was talking to a friend of mine. They had switched from Iphone to Android. Once they switched they realized how much they were missing and said they won't go back to iPhone at all

​@@Grimmy85It's not about iphone usage being higher or lower, pretty much 95% of my friends have iphone (Colombia), we still all use WhatsApp, everyone does

The Guy who said that in the Video has a nice cheesy smile, but overall he has no clue. The claim is nonsense.

Except it was UK)

The EU isn't against encryption. You have more data protection and privacy in the EU than in the us. The Moderator who said that has no clue.

I did some digging and there are proposals in the US, UK and EU that if passed into law would require tech companies to report child sexual abuse material, etc. Depending on how this is implemented it would likely weaken end to end encryption.

I don’t agree with this for one reason, North America is by FAR the largest apple consumers in the world. In North America it’s very rare to see someone use a different messaging app than what’s included with the phone, and Apple knows this. They don’t have to Worry about their largest demographic finding another app because that’s not the culture

​​@@XxTooMuchStupidxXBut an iPhone is a worldwide thing. The rest of the world use Telegram or WhatsApp. They done this to stop people switching to other brands. Why buy an £800 iPhone when you can buy a £400 Android device with the same messaging service.

just be careful

You kidding? The EU is very against end to end ever since the whole EncroChat thing. The latest thing now is "chat control", which is just ridiculous and incredibly anti-encryption..

Every article ive read seems to say iphone, it never mentions any specific model, so it makes sense it would be supported on iphone, most likely, if it comes this year it would be in an update to IOS 17 or later this year when we see IOS 18.