Aptera: Good Things Take Time. 

Thank you. I do believe Aptera has the same markewt potential as Tesla. I'll tell you why? Don;t forget that when Tesla started, they too started out with a roadster 2-seater. And on their 1st year of production, they only pushed 350 of those puppies out. Aptera too is planning other vehicles, including a sedan, a van , a truck and so on and so forth. (all solar) I think that ultimately these vehicles will have a wider appeal than non-solar ones.

That’s exactly what I see too! A Lightning weighing 2500# more than an ICE F150 seems like the wrong direction.

Comparing Aptera with Elio is borderline criminal. Elio is, always has been, and always will be a complete and utter scam. After....what is it now? 12 maybe 15 years... Elio has yet to make even one prototype vehicle? Aptera has been very forthright, and transparent with their vehicle development, but enough preaching to the choir. We just have to be patient. 😊

@@p0kerp1aya Well they did have a few 'prototypes' but yeah. I think they started in about 2009. They were planning to build their own engines and get 84 mpg for $6,300. It sounded too good to be true. For one thing, they were planning to build an ICE vehicle which will soon be obsolete and the price would be double that by now. I watched them for a few yrs but, pretty much, decided early on that they were never going into production. never gave them my money because it was non refundable.

My thought: Buy a launch edition, then sell it and buy a later model in a couple of years if the need arises.

That’s perhaps the most exciting other aspect of the vehicle.

You mean those Chinese folks who will deliver cheap steel-bodied, traditionally designed EVs with drive shafts and, yes, so much weight they have to use four wheels. Recognize the tech for the bodies comes from "motor valley" in Italy which is the only place where folks building the really advanced hypercars are made with exotic, super strong and light materials that outclass every manufacturer in the world. These folks are the ones' who used to build in steel but converted to aluminum and titanium and other exotic materials for strength 40 years ago. Will the Aptera be able to compete price wise with Chinese cars made out of cheap materials with fake leather and shiny chrome stylish fashion statements and barely adequate performance. Yep that $2000 brand new Chinese electric pickup truck with lead acid batteries will be cheaper but you do get what you pay for in the end. Tailosive knows most folks have neither the inclination or drive to fully research this and are inherently 'skeptical' of anything different but that the approach of Aptera to the task of producing the vehicle - getting one's ducks in a row to do that task right out of the gate - is the only 'smart way' to do this. The failure and difficulty of others from Archimoto to Lucid to Nicola, etc. etc. etc. shows that path is fraught with failure. Just from a capitalism POV they could reach production with a fully operating supply chain for a new model vehicle with crowd funding will draw emulators and become one of the world's most famous examples of bootstrapping one to outrageous success. One company Helixx- a UK firm - is already marketing the concept as a key element of its startup EV brand. These folks, who have partnered with Seimens - the multinational conglomerate operating in numerous industries including automotive engineering, computing etc. - are actually marketing this 'do it right' to create profitable, low volume production assembly plants capable or producing 10,000 vehicles annually. Their plan - and these folks haven't built the first prototype of their small urban mobility vehicles including a 4-door people carrier, mini pickup and open and enclosed vans - is to sell not these vehicles, but the 'factory' to assemble them to franchisees. They call it a factory in a box and they liken those who purchase this box, which ties them into the Aptera-like subsystem assembly process. They picture Helixx as the 'computer brains' organizing the supply chain and marketing for the 'brand' but it is the franchisee who bought the factory in the box who builds and actually sells the vehicles ... like a McDonalds franchisee. I've been talking about Aptera doing the same thing to accelerate expansion ONCE they set up and get into production. Aptera has all the components and has already committed to the geographically diverse placement of micro assembly plants. You get Aptera into production and folks are going to beat on their door demanding they sell rights to exclusive territories. Show it works and your growth trajectory is more akin to fast food companies. I mean you can get a McDonalds burger in Paris and Beijing.

​@g.pattonhughes5991 90% of Chinese EV companies going through capitulation, the 4 to 10 that survive are strong companies with outstanding products. You need to educate yourself before rambling on for so long

@@kabysummit5801 I'm sure they're good, competent products and the Chinese have, to their credit, been pushing solar generation of electricity and EVs because, well, even with the benefit of current investment, it is a health hazard to walk on the sidewalk in Beijing without a mask because of the particulates. I'm sure they're competent vehicles but they are designed on the current paradigm of auto-making. They vehicles I see coming this way are designed to compete against vehicles like the Kia/Hyundai and others. Notably, there are several Chinese cars on the market including EV offerings by Jaguar, Volvo and, yes, they even build Teslas there. I'm sure they're competitive in that context but k-baby, Bob Dylan said a half century ago, The times they are a'changing. (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-90WD_ats6eE.html) What you fail to grasp is that Aptera is a new concept in personal transportation that is designed for localization like no other vehicle. The environment Aptera will create is one where there are numerous suppliers of a set number of subsystems and those subsystems can be renewed and recycled because the distribution of assembly plants allows an entirely new form of sustainability . It will make sense to do this because the assembly plant is less than 150 miles from your location 'anywhere' which, given million mile motors and 20-year batteries and a CF body that will maintain its strength and integrity for 100 years, means the main reason a vehicle becomes obsolete is deterioration of its soft parts (seats, upholstery) and obsolescence of its electronics (battery, computer, solar cells) in roughly 10-20 years. I expect many of those remanufactured vehicles, beginning in 2035 or so will be fully self-driving at level 5. That future adaptability, which is literally built-in to Aptera's grand design, is the key to sustainable personal mobility. I do concede this is not at all inevitable. I suppose we can continue making eight-passenger SUVs that are driven 95% of the time with a single occupant and weight three-times that of an Aptera because of the hyper-sensitivity of our tushes in an effort to avoid the pain of a pea under 20 mattresses justifies accelerating the apocalypse. I just didn't know we were in a hurry to get there. While they're going to zero emmission EVs in China and they are building solar panels and no doubt wind turbines, etc.; they're still building coal-powered power plants to power their cars as their policy goal is not to eliminate pollution, but just remove it from the cities.

@@shrimptopian3392 They are reservations for a place in line to purchase a new Aptera. I am one of them. No letters of intent, which is not the same thing. The deposits are fully refundable, so maybe that is why you are confused.

PUNCH IT, 😆

They have. The skin cooling is an aluminum panel on the belly that radiates a lot (but not all) of the heat load from the vehicle. Its size has not been released but can be approximated from the exploded body panel references. Testing has shown the skin cooling to be inadequate during high heat events like cabin or battery cooling so there is a conventional radiator in the back wheel skirt area. They have not announced if this is coolant to air or refrigerant to air heat exchange. My bet is on refrigerant to air because the A/C system can also cool the cabin, battery, and inverters. The belly pan should be adequate for the motors.

I would also like someone to do a deep dive on the thermals with Aptera. N Bruce Nelson would be perfect for this because of his access to Aptera and his knowledge of thermal systems. He could really nerd out like no other Aptera RU-vid fanboy could even begin to. There has-been no reason to do so to date because the system has been changing all the time as they have been changing heat budgets and components available from suppliers. When they do finally lock down the thermal system, Bruce is our best RU-vidr for the job.

@@GaryGreenway I had a talk with an Aptera engineer under NDA in November of 2021 regarding the cooling system, but they have released a lot more detail since. I do know that the A/C system turns on any time the speed of the vehicle drops below 18 mph with excess heat to remove, because the convective component of the air moving past the belly pan lessens. During charging, there is also excess heat produced by the onboard charger and the batteries that must be removed. A fan blows air past the AC condenser at the vehicle rear, and the hot air exits through vents in the tail. Under normal conditions, there is an antifreeze loop that runs coolant through each powered wheel, and then along the top side of the belly pan. During really hot weather, with heat coming from the pavement and during a steep hill climb, the belly pan may not be sufficient to remove all of the heat. If the temperature continues to rise, the power to the motors will be reduced and the vehicle will slow until the cooling needs are met. This is likely to be a rare event, and is more elegant than having a conventional car radiator boil over.

They've talked about it in detail in a video they did but I don't remember which one. It was cool though

@@n.brucenelson5920 So, no A/C chiller in the motor coolant loop?

Me too

The split side window isn't for aero... They've explained in a livestream Q&A they wish they had no split as that gives a penalty in aero. The split is because of the massive curve on the glass. Think about it. If it was one massive curved piece of glass, for the window to go straight down, the door panel would have to be deep enough to engulf the entire depth of the curve. By splitting the window, you not only get a cheaper piece of glass because each is less complex to manufacture, you get a thinner door and more cabin space. Now, the thickness of the middle trim and any rubber seal could certainly be refined (and likely has been!) I'll have to check out the Aptera Delta design renders again.

Aptera only use 100 wH/mile of electricity and has very low drag at speed. Solar on less efficient EV's won't have the same impact

Tesla will never put solar on their cars, solar generates more power at lower costs installed on rooftops and lots of other places, and there is no need to haul around the extra weight of solar on a car. Yes, there are specific use cases for the Aptera solar powered cars, that being people living in apartments with no way to charge at home, and that is a decent sized market. But apartment complexes will be putting in charging, they will have to. More worrisome is the prospect of Tesla coming out with a $25,000 car that gets a $7,500 tax rebate discount at time of purchase, making it $17,500 out the door while an Aptera costs $26,000 for the cheaper version and $30,000 for the 400 mile range one. Hard to see people paying a lot more to get an Aptera instead of a Tesla. And then Tesla will launch their robo taxis and people in apartments will probably mostly prefer the convenience of just summoning a Tesla and going wherever and not needing to worry about parking and so on. Aptera has a nice product, there would be some demand, but the ways to die as an EV startup have multiplied and there were already a lot of ways to die to start. The big investors are not jumping in because it is a huge risk and the potential reward is a successful niche player with pretty small profit margins that tops out their growth relatively quickly and has nowhere to go once they do. Aptera cannot release an SUV as their second model, really it is clear there will only be this model and no second or third or fourth models, and that is not the kind of company people with fortunes are looking to invest in.

One years time. Fools cannot wait.

@@shrimptopian3392 already failed once and this is now a second effort. Could be a decent option for me as I live in an apartment in Tucson with lots of sun and do not need a car much, and I am single. But I don't see big investors saying let's give Aptera two billion to burn through so they can get to profitability and make a hundred million a year.

Tesla also took out a DOE loan when their back was against the wall!

@@TailosiveEV with the charging network being built out, range isn’t going to be more important than a second row of seats for most people. So they have a year’s plus worth of orders? You’re talking about them like they’re the next big thing. I’m doubting they’ll ever be more than a niche. Speak honestly, if you didn’t have a ton of referral credits would you be buying one? Would you trade your Model 3 in for one if you didn’t have resources to buy an Aptera? I’m not being snarky, it’s an honest question.

@@TailosiveEV you misunderstand, I’m not implying it’s all about the referral code for you. Let me ask it a different way. If the CEO took your advice and wiped referral points out, on the day they launch are you: 1) Buying an Aptera in addition to your M3 2) Trading in or selling your M3 to buy an Aptera. 3) Not buying an Aptera anytime soon. For the purpose of this, assume you’ve no other car than the M3 and elaborate on your choice. Second part: you’ve said if you have both that you’ll split 60/40 (Aptera/M3). Describe briefly what you’ll be using each for.

I recently got an ebike unsure of range and tbh 40 miles gets me farther than I would've thought. So the fact this is a whole car that can do it for you and get 40 miles a day in the sun is super good. Plus in the future the tech will get better. As the more efficient solar panels get cheaper and more mass produced then I can imagine getting up to 60-80 miles a day. At that point I doubt you'd need to plug in outside of road trips or bad weather conditions

They are making the solar panels themselves, who is Arrival? CPC is making the body, and not sure what you mean.

They will take over tomorrow. Of course, tomorrow never comes

Tesla Takeover??

Just need the Money, but without it, no Monopoly ❤😅

​@@ApteraEV2024facts

No i dont want that bad idea

Tesla is in the business of selling electricity, Why would they wanna sell a solar car

@@jimmyblackwell8784 anything that sells,... sustainability..

What sense is there in comparing Aptera to Elio which you have labeled as a scam.

@@danharold3087 Elio is a startup that promised gas then EV, never launched either product for years and is still accepting money. Aptera is a startup that promised an EV, is in the process of launching and is still accepting money. The only comparison I'm making is that Aptera isn't a scam because clearly they are showing progress and finalizing their product and production. I almost put money down on an Elio but after seeing it in person I decided against it because there was zero polish and it seemed too beta to ever hit production. The comparison is historical to another high efficiency vehicle startup, we must recognize the pitfalls of those who have failed and not repeat them.

@@danharold3087 I think people do so because Elio was also a 2 seat vehicle - without the engineering or stated efficiency goals. Also, Elio didn't claim their deposits were refundable. All of the Aptera Inc. deposits were refunded when that company was liquidated in 2011. I looked into the Elio closely when they announced the engine and factory they were going to use. I found out that it didn't exist, and couldn't at the price they were claiming. At the time, I was involved in sourcing a small engine for a marine project. We ended up with the diesel version of the Smart Car engine that we purchased from Mercedes in Berlin. They wouldn't sell us the engine controls and they were very surprised when we designed our own, took it through EPA testing in Southern California - and passed! Elio lied to its potential customers. Also the prototypes they were showing then were more like kit cars, with no volume manufacturing potential.

This makes zero sense.

@@gbpg2016 Which part?