Arcane Lineage Learns NOTHING From Deepwoken 

Is “little handholding” supposed to be an excuse for mediocre game design?

so just a little story here from the owner and trello team. Nuova (owner) released 2 marks, which are basically a slot connected skill tree type of thing. at first the trello team (disconnected from the game cause the game literally does not give you ANYTHING to work with and there is still a potion we havent found the recipe for) was busy figuring out how to get one and they figured it out, hurray. then all of a sudden nuova updated the game and suddenly the mark seem unobtainable sometimes and sometimes not. the trello team reported this to Nuova and he said "you guys just did the steps wrong." Then the trello team went on a hunt for the "missing step" or "wrong steps" and same results. this went on for about 3 days where the trello team was trying to find out what is wrong with the mark quest and finding nothing while having to deal with MAJOR item loses (drops that have an unspecified drop rate so it may as well be 1% or 5%). at the end though, the trello team realized it was actually a bug that was connected to the slot version. and to quote the trello, "The community went, pardon the french, Apeshit. They were right. The dev was wrong. All those hours and artifacts wasted. Only time would tell if the developers would fix this." So what did Nuova say? "NuovaPrime - 02/29/2024 10:57 PM ngl idc rn about petent being bugged someone else can look at it" TL:DR very hard obtainment thin was bugged, trello team tried to see what was wrong, dev denied, trello team did literally everything, dev went idc

Love it when devs expected you to know that meditating on a random ass carpet and talked to some goofy ball is required to level up. Peak design

Imagine eclipse reviewed rogue lineage... Dear god

Wait until he finds out about the soul points💀

"but eclipse, the game its fun after 50 wikipedia searches and 617 hours"

My friends were obsessed with playing this game for about a week, realized how aggravating it really was, and dropped it.

As someone with over 250 hours in this game, everything you say is absolutely fucking correct. The game itself is a really good idea, its just horribly executed. If and when I ever do make a game myself of this type, I'll make sure to NOT do what Arcane Lineage did.

agreed, the owner is busy being a "Helper" on type soul (a bleach game which was passed onto an asset thief) whilst 200 bugs are still waiting to be fixed

Ok which goober unironically suggested this to eclipse, throw them into ddos

Ah yes, permadeath with completely random mostly unavoidable encounters 😍

Pretty hilarious how eclipse talked to every, single, npc in the starter town, EXCEPT the tutorial npc, right next to where the player spawns.

i enjoy arcane lineage, unfortunately though you are absolutely correct there's even an essence cap (based on level) that is never mentioned and serves no purpose aside from capping how many times you can level up at once

hack roblox devs dont realize that handholding means "walls of text explaining everything", not "intuitive game design". You can't excuse terrible game design by saying "no handholding" or "hard game"

Comment 36 of asking eclipse to play ultrakill

gigachad eclipse strikes again with a banger arcane lineage video (day : 422)

Me and my entire friend group played this blind for our first few characters (got to max on like the third) and had none of the issues you had. I personally don't understand how you went into town saw people meditating and didn't wonder what it did. I love your content man but I don't think you did this game justice.

Now that I think about it, I actually wanna see a good turn based RPG like final fantasy in roblox. There’s no other game I play on Roblox other than deepwoken, so it would be nice.

Ok listen, Eclipse I love your content but I would like to point out the tutorial NPC right next to spawn, who appears to be the only NPC you didn't talk to in the beginning town, (that's unlucky!). The limited lives makes the difficulty system interesting because it lowers your max lives and increases enemy damage. but increases loot and such, which makes fights more tense. I'll admit that getting classes and the alignment system are unintuitive, but your complaint about money is missing the fact that every enemy in the game has a high/guaranteed chance to drop a sellable item to the merchant, which you found in your video but didn't realize you can sell slime chunks to, I guess. (Slime has 100% chance for slime chunk and *every* enemy in the game has a chance to drop blueprints/scrolls (how you use magic) which sell for roughly 200 each) Again, not hating, but I didn't look things up until around level 23-ish (which is still a problem but that's mostly me not realizing the locations which could be argued is part of the fun (exploring not getting lost)). Sorry for making this comment but I was just confused by how I always agree with almost all of your points only to watch this video and agree with like 2 of them (the map being bad and the weapons doing nothing until you get a class).

The closest NPC that you spawn to when you first spawn in town teaches you how to level up

Eclipse and low quality game = great video

I feel like some people just put the "PermaDeath" part to people go and say "Oh look! Is like Deepwoken/Rogue Legacy But Free!!!"

I agree with a LOT of the points but there IS a guide, his name is YORN. He tells your overall goal in the game (not in the game yet.) He also tells you how to get stronger/level up (pressing M on the mats, which is also in the game description.) He also gives you a quest to give you a brand new ability. Edit: I agree with some of the things you say like the map, the game SHOULD tell you to talk to Yorn, sadly it doesn't. The guild requests have been something that has always peeved me because I wanna know exact amounts. Permadeaths are very necessary with SOUL POINTS, plus it really makes you think about your actions. It doesn't let you just turn your brain off and go on a killing spree and just NOT think. There are potions called "Abhorrent elixirs" which don't let any mobs attack you for as long as the potion is in effect. If you complain about not knowing potion recipes the lady in the potion ship gives you hints to go figure out the recipes yourself which brings out more immersive content if you choose not to look anything up! (You can also just buy them in the same shop) I dislike how the game doesn't tell you how to complete the potions because I know I struggled with that when I was a beginner. But Yorn also tells you to go out and ask some players for help. Of course you're going to find people who wont care but if you keep trying you will find people who are willing to give some handholding. IF you're going to make a video like this on Arcane Lineage then at least get far enough into the game where it counts like bosses, glitches, THE MERCHANT WHICH IS HORRIBLE, and RACES OH MY IT SUCKS. I'm a really big fan of this game but when I see the merchant and the race system it actually makes me go insane. You basically played the game for a couple hours and gave up without talking to the one and only guide npc. Id love to see you remake this video and trash some actually really bad points on this game and maybe get the devs to fix it. But you pretty much gave up too early. Sorry for typing a whole paragraph, thank you for anyone who actually took the time to read this, I doubt this will get much coverage or many people will see this but I really just needed to blurt this all out! I'm probably just yapping anyways.

Thank god someone who isn’t on something fierce reviewed this game. The entire time I played this game I had the wiki open in my browser, you can’t do shit without the wiki. The entirety of the Lentum quest line is entirely dependent on information the quest giver doesn’t give you, and the king slime YOU spent 150-200 (It’s randomized because having a set number is too easy) slime chunks on to fight ends up spawning far away, and can be stolen by another player. And don’t get me started on getting disconnected in a boss fight and losing a life to a boss that you would have won against in the first place. It’s so easy to fix as well, just spawn the player back into the boss fight when they rejoin and notify them “due to disconnecting you will not obtain loot from this fight” (to prevent duping bosses like king slime by having everyone in the fight join different servers). It’s just straight up painful how bad this game was designed. It’s fun to play with friends (and don’t get me started on how painful solo playing this game is) and that’s the only reason I ever kept on playing it past my first experience with it.

I agree with you except for that there is literally a NPC at spawn that tells u how to level up. That's the only leveling up thing they tell you though which sucks ass. They don't even tell you requirements when you get turned down by trainers.

Cruelty Squad is a great No Handholding Game and even it has a tutorial that basically tells you how to shoot and reload and throw objects and that’s it. A No Handholding Game should still tell you how to at least punch something in the game.

The fact that this game holds 3 thousand players shows the potential this game type has when its actually done by a caring and competent dev team

Is it just me or do i find it funny talks to every single npc. Besides the one closest to him when he spawns in. Your agruments are valid btw but cmon bros going deep into the wilderness instead of talking to every single npc in the starter area

Hey Eclipse, you should try out Randomly Generated Droids if you haven't already. It's a fun randomised rogue-like where you go room from room, taking doing traditional NPCs with varying abilities, getting upgrades as you progress.

There’s a npc out of spawn that tells you what to do. Like how to level and such.

I've been a fan of arcane lineage for almost a month now (and still am, not sure for how much longer). Most of your points was INCREDIBLY agreeable. But i'd like to give clearance to some of those problems that you faced 1. There exists an npc near spawn which leans on a lamp post which tells a few basics. (i do hate how the devs doesnt make that clear) 2. It's told by said npc, but you need to meditate on a mat to level up by talking to a floating white orb. 3. You need to unlock base classes to get moves. (Though i'm sure this is easy to know about with the game trello, i do dislike that new players need to use the trello in the first place)

always love a vid when eclipse mentions deepwoken

Eclipse, you do know you can talk to other players right? The combat is also meant to be played in a party hence the comment In the description and the party menu. The gripe about the quest not giving you numerical progress is just a nitpick. Completing the quest does tell you what you get, I’m not sure how you miss the “+item” in the bottom left. Getting money is easy because all you have to do is sell things you get from monsters in the shop you went into at the beginning. Buying weapons doesn’t mean it will give you free stuff.

This is my favorite game on roblox and i mentally cant comprehend one of my favorite roblox youtubers eclipse insulting it and im in tears

I feel like the bigger problem here is the devs are hella lazy for this game nouveau the main dev is a dev for a lot of different games he has and sometimes doesn’t even bother fixing bugs or issues with the game unless it breaking the whole game or they’re doing a big update tho there’s not much we can do it about since it’s his game

The reason rogue lineage was so successful despite having very little tutorials or anything was because of its world building. The models stood out, and they made you want to learn more about the world of Gaia, and the npcs would tell you more. These other 'lineage' games simply steal the core concept, but never flesh out a 'world', just a 'game'

I will admit, the only problem is a lack of how the frick do I do anything lol, but its super fun if you know how (yes I hear myself)

As a Player of Arcane Lineage I agree with most of you points. Potions solve most encounter problems, however potions are supposed to be learned through hints the Alchemist NPC's give so not really accessible to new players however you can buy the potion to reduce encounters for 60 gold. There's free alternatives to anything you can buy whether that's race rerolls or other slots. Classes are Reputation and Level locked for the most part and it isn't really explained that u need potions and quests to increase your rep. Levels are obtained via meditating on a mat and talking to a NPC similar to the light in the intro exchanging essence for levels. Guild Requests and Encounters do tell you what u got they just appear at the bottom of your screen and disappear very quickly. The end game experience is made easier through soul points which increases ur base stats, damage, luck, essence gain, etc which you only get after reaching milestones. The new player experience isn't very good.

Guys just talk to the npcs bruh. The only thing I find unfair is the bugs and glitches.

honestly, this really is a terrible review Eclipse REALLY ignored the one NPC that tells you most of everything and then complains that the game didn't say anything. like honestly bro if you really were trying your best to understand how to play the game then how did you not see the npc? I admit there are a lot of problems with the game, but this is a really dumb critique. again I don't think this game is good its just eclipse yaps for 13 minutes about a single problem that doesn't really exist as much as he thinks it does. I mean, the game is REALly not good I have to emphasize that, but eclipse barely talked about the actual problem problem and instead chose to talk about "the game doesnt tell you anything" (it kind of does) I mean I admit the NPC isnt really made clear that it is the tutorial NPC but like if you played it for an entire hour how

games only barely tolerable with 2+ friends

bro… theres a npc that gives you a skill AND teaches you stuff….

The running/walking idea doesn’t sound too intuitive from a design stance, because typically loud noise and extreme movement would attract more enemies and slow movement would do the opposite. Its a negative affordance, but one that devs have to work with. Also if they spelled that out at the start, they'd have to spell out everything at the start, and Roblox players don't like to read alot. The quest and roguelike gripes though were 100% facts, bad decisions.

Very good game. It's kinda hard to be honest, no hand holding. For the love of god, it's a rogue like. Yes, it's bad new user, that's the point. That means more content and promotes the exploration of the map. If your attention span of 15 seconds doesn't allow you to do that, then don't play. You talk to the NPC's, you figure it out.

Dont know how eclipse says "ive talked to a bunch of npc's" but apparently not the tutorial npc leaning on a lightpole legit 2 meters away from spawn, also i dont understand how he doesnt see people meditate and wonder "hmm lets see what it does". i played this game in testing with 0 info on the internet about the game and somehow managed to figure this out. Some ppl are just slow i guess.

You should play Lore Game, the game encourages you to actually explore on your own and not look things up, and there's no permadeath which is a plus

I think some games use the excuse of there being little handholding so there'll be less work for them to do

The tutorial npc right next to spawn in a way teaches you how to level up. He first teaches you how to meditate, at this point you might be confused by the ball of light and the eyes towards the back of the church, but if you talk to the either you'll realize you can't do anything and need more essence (assuming you just joined the game). At this point most players will head back to the npc and he tells you to kill 3 slimes, if you wander outside the town pretty big chance, you'll end up fighting slimes like you did in the video and once you kill all 3, you'll finish the quest and have the essence to level up. I do think that it could use maybe a highlight for newer players but in most games it's important to glean information around you. I think it's also important to form your own opinions rather than just being mindless sheep, Eclipse had a horrible new player experience and I understand some of the criticisms, like spawn rates being random, guild requests, uninspiring/ boring map starter map, the orderly system and chaotic system being complete bs for new players but even still my personal experience wasn't so bad, and I've had alot of fun with and without friends. Form your own opinions based on your own experiences and decide for yourself rather than letting someone decide if a game is trash or not for you. Anyways just my opinion peace out.

I feel like they desperately tried to have that “vague yet mysterious” like Dark Souls, yet even Dark Souls has an NPC that gives advice on what to do in Firelink shrine. Arcane? Nothing.

well it does tell you what u get from quest u litterary get notifications of items you recieve

When the game was fairly new, whenever you entered the church( The place where you level up) you had a chance to get softlocked and woukd be unable to teleport back to town. You couldn't reset, rejoining the game brought you back to the church, and overall is was absolute hell.

if you're actually feeling discouraged to play the game after this review I suggest you still give the game a try and unlike Eclipse just search up the trello/videos when you need. yes the game does practically nothing to get you started but the more you play it the easier it gets, it's permadeath but it doesn't mean every run will be slow. there's this mechanic called "soul points" it's a skill tree near where you level up and there you can upgrade things from damage health and in-combat regen to the health pack you get after an encounter and xp gain.

I'd recommend checking out the game it's inspired by, platform battles is essentially this game but far better tho you might not like some of the parts the gameplay is very fun after you get the hang of it.

tbf deepwoken was exactly like this when it dropped it still was a very good game you just gotta put time into discovering things. Its also way easier since a trello for the game does exist unlike early deep

i mean, the game does indeed not tell a lot on how to play, but having spent one hour without leveling up is crazy. in my case i read the thing, saw how i was born a monkey, figured how to use the inventory, read the basic stats and went straight out, fought some slimes, almost died, came back, and then saw people in a matress, got scared to shit with the eyes and deeply confused, thinking i just killed my account, started randomly pressing buttons before trying to re-join, followed a player to the ball of light and then discovered lvl ups, gaines skills thanks to my race(love vastayan sylph), and until lvl 11 never discovered classes(explored the doors of the city and found the sword trainer) and till lvl 13 finally discovered the weapon shop and the rest of shops, like potions were to sell and the bank, then i finally died to an unlucky encounter and went to internet and got to finally play the game.

what?! there are more permadeath games other than deepwoken??! and not all of them are deepwoken?!

You should play Arcane Lineage

the tutorial npc next to spawn does kinda help with knowing what your supposed to do but you do you boss. if i do get in ddos thats kinda sick

100% i have played the game since release and can only confirm that it gets worse honestly i wish you asked someone to tell you how bad the user experience ACTUALLY is because listen to this imagine having hundreds of people spending hours at a time for like a week doing random shit trying to find out hidden requirements to obtain an ability, only for the dev to gaslight you into thinking you're wrong when in reality the steps you painstakingly found were indeed right and the obtainment method was just bugged 💀 ...and then the dev says its not his problem, he doesn't care and someone else can fix it 💀💀💀

Makes sense since this game was inspired by platform battles and rogue lineage which are both known to be hellish trial and error games they basically want you to run around clueless and figure stuff out urself you'd actually be surprised how frustrating it is for a newbie to progress in these kinds of games without well just going on the internet And to answer what the hell the hook is well there are surprisingly many people who gets hooked on trying to figure out what ur supposed to do and then get addicted once they finally figure out what ur suppost to do

'arcane lineage learns nothing from deepwoken' arcane lineage is not like deepwoken unless deepwoken represents all permadeath games he also seems to constantly miss decently obvious parts of the game and then complains about it he ignores a tutorial npc right next to spawn who explains how u level up and then says 'HoW Do I LEveL Up?!'

TLDR at bottom 👍, The name is because of arcane being a part of the inspiration, as I believe that’s the name of the dev who made platform battles, the primary inspiration, and lineage because the art style is similar to rogue lineage’s art style. The trello is linked on the discord and is how your supposed to know what is what. Other games like Terraria and Minecraft, both bestselling games, rely on this as well. (Minecraft’s recipes and nether portal, and terraria’s weak use of the guide and vague guide to summoning bosses). I don’t think it’s a good thing but I think it’s not a complete turn off that makes the game unplayable. Also with that being said up until super classes it’s pretty obvious what’s going on, I played in the play test and got the gameplay loop down in fifteen-ish minutes. The next few complaints are related to that, however as someone who played in the play test before most features I got a base class and lv 20 in about 25~ minutes. Permadeath is really easily avoidable via an item that gives you back a life. It’s an optional challenge(modes) with huge rewards, and opens up a gateway for soul points, which are permanent upgrades to your character. The map is not that visually appealing other then the desert, cess grounds and overgrown forest(forgive me if I’m wrong about the name I haven’t played for two weeks now and I have a trash memory). All of the later problems are not apparent in other parts of the map and only really apply to a specific blank area where neutral super classes are. Exploration isn’t even supposed to be a big aspect of the game, your supposed to be tethered in your specific grinding area and prepare for the bosses. Next is the encounter system… I don’t even know what your trying to say anymore, this is a pretty standard turn based encounter system… Then you say you ran around the town.. and didn’t realize it’s a safe area, hopefully this is supposed to be the perspective of someone who just started to play video games but I’m not even sure anymore. This information gap seems to keep reappearing… as I said please think of other examples. It does suck that they use a trello for everything but games do that. Even amazingly high quality games like deepwoken sometimes need trellos, like for oaths, resonances (ain’t no way your discovering them without one), origins, map, etc… Since you love exploration so much, please consider abhorrent and alluring elixirs. Alluring increases fight rates drastically, and abhorrent makes you unable to get in a fight. The quests are just a bonus thing, and you can check your progress by asking the npc again and reading the dialogue, not just halfway but it marks down quarters. Turn in quests are for quests that ask you to turn stuff in 💀. Information gap is still apparently a problem for you, and only you. Please just play the game for at least an hour before flaming it. The quests are a really really small part of the game on top of that. In my first 100 hours I didn’t even use them. It does in fact tell you what you get from the quest, check the bottom right where your drops appear. You don’t even have a class in the entire footage and yet your flaming it for features you might have just not unlocked/uncovered/seen yet, ex: maps, encounter system and information. It really seems like you just joined it and started insulting whatever you can find. Your “1 hour” was for the most part spent seemingly on finding a new system to insult. You frequently complain about the need for information but then attack the wiki like it killed your grandma. This is coming from a person who has 400+ hours sinked in, obtained all super classes (except ranger because I was lazy) and obtained every sudo artifact and non mv artifacts (I have enough dupes, blessed items, and event weapons that I most likely could obtain mv drops). I love your videos but please put effort into making them. It’s very possible that I just am used to using wikis from my time of playing hypixel skyblock 370+ hours, and terraria for a whopping 1120+ hours, but they don’t kill upon sight. Also, please think to talk to the tutorial npc that is put right in front of you at spawn that tells you the basic mechanics and location of one of the normal class trainers. All of the problems seem to stem from a simple lack of want to use the wiki, and a poor understanding of what the turn based genre frequently does. Next time play for more then three hours, as your one hour was my first five or six minutes.

i think the title should be "arcane lineage learns nothing from Rogue Lineage and Deepwoken", because the game takes many many manymanymanymany MANY pulls from rogue's... interesting design, just not the PvP bits

I'm really glad that you make videos on games like this. I've always wanted to make videos like this pretty much 1:1 but its hard, I haven't built an audience big enough to gain any traction for it. Keep this shit up man

Yeah I kinda figured you’d say all that, and to be honest, I 100% agree with you. The only reason I was hooked on the game is because I had a guide (my friends I played with) who could help me out.

arcane lineage wanted to combine rogue lineage and adventure story, two vastly different games, and came out with this slop of a game I will still play 😋

Eclipse, everything you say is correct. The lack of leading, or information itself, is very stressing. The fact that you have to constantly peek at the trello just so you have the slightest idea of what to do, is certainly not good. Yet, I'd like you to test the game further and give it another chance. It is a game that me and my friends pretty much enjoy, even with all its faults. Once you get through the early game, the rest of the game is pretty much obvious, except for some bosses that are on very late game. I'd love to see you give this game another chance, since the dev is very communicative and I see a lot of potential in it. Thanks for your honest review as always, keep it up.

i remember playing this 3 months ago because i was bored. i joined wondered for 30 minutes and didn’t feel like looking it up then so i asked someone and they said “this you shouldn’t be asking for help because this game has no handholding”

It would be cool if eclipse tries pilgrammed that game is mad simple and fun

tbh, it took me around 3 wipes to realise how to level up and it felt like really bad game design, IS WHAT I WOULDVE SAID IF I WASNT MASOCHIST learning things yourself or asking other people around you boosts the roleplay mechanism by A LOT. eclipse i accept dis is a really bad beginner start but like you arent suppose to get the mechanisms by start, even me learning how to level up after 3 wipes wasnt the games issue i just got gaslighted by a random person, it took me around 5 minutes to realise what to do in first around 5-7 hours of the game and after that it was just easy to figure out i never used internet and only tryed to find myself. i absolutely love dis type of game design and i accept its not made for everyone or its good but its just what some people like me love, figuring out yourself is nothing like the feeling of level up. geting 40 heals or sum before starting the game is absolutely better than what i did but losing so many times to so many small things in legendary mode with a necromancer run after the nerfs and while using nisse thats not a bad race for my class but not a good one either, i still had one of the best if not the best turn based roblox expreince i had in roblox and perma death especially in legendary mode is just perfect to make me focus in fights and not just spam the same stragey over again it adds depth to the game, literally. but i agree with guild quests its just bad game design AND I BEG YOU PLEASE, I FUCKING BEG YOU PLEASE JUST DO NOT RATE A GAME BASED ON THE FIRST PLAY THOSE 3K PEOPLE ARE JUST PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HAVE FUN GAME IS REALLY FUN IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS TO EXPLORE AND SACRIFICE SOME TIME, OR JUST PROGRESS A LITTLE and just saying you said it yourself ''there is a shop that i can sell stuff in'' and did not try to sell things you got from monsters to get gold? and i agree with hooking the player in the start game isnt newbie friendly AT ALL, its bad game design? for some people yes. it makes the whole game worst of the worst on roblox? HELL NO i beg you eclipse please do not rate a game based on first time just rate the early game out of it.

I played this game a while back, and it seems like it has almost a slight inkling of a good game because the combat is honestly not too bad imo but its buried under so so many bad mechanics

getting new skills is a nightmare: basically when you kill an enemy there's a VERY small chance they drop a scroll which contains a skill, but that also has problems: all scrolls are useless until you reach a certain level a good chunk of scrolls are completely useless anyway (out of the 5 skills i ever got only 1 of them was actually used, that being steel body which reduces all damage you take by around 60% for a single turn) the game does not tell you what does the skill do (i thought that a skill called "Lesser Absorb" would be something that heals me a percentage of damage dealt to the enemy, but no, of course it makes you take damage for a party member sometimes (by party members, i mean actual players, you kinda have to cooperate with friends/randoms to make the game slightly less painful)

so funny how he didn’t even get to experience the actual game bc was so badly introduced to new players

Dude, talk to ANY of the npcs dog, apparently is it "hard" for a grown man to talk to a npc LOL (Yaknow how most games like these tell/show you how to play) (Keep in mind the npc legit tells you how to do most of the things in the game) (sounds like you just have no care to actually try things out)

this would have not happened if bro talked to the guy with daze quest 😭

Valid points. Personally I play the game and do enjoy it as a pass time. I agree with most things you have said, however, the one small thing I picked out that was wrong was the fact that you said it doesn't tell you what you get after you finish the quest. It tells you on the bottom left next to the general info box. I do hope the devs do something about the rest of what you mentioned though. I remember being a new player as well and unironically spent like 2 hours watching videos before I could actually confidently play the game. Nuova, the guy who made the game, pretty well said he doesn't do anything for the game anymore aside from provide ideas, so highly unlikely. Hope there is a game with some similarities in the future but more thought out than this cardboard cutout of a game.

the game is nothing like deepwoken

Hey dev here, I will say there's really no need to look anything up on the internet to play the game, there's npcs everywhere that tell you how to play the game, how some mechanics work and how to get stronger. The npc directly next to spawn tells you a lot, and I don't really get why people decide to just ignore every npc and then complain that there's nothing that tells them how to play

Idk if there are a tutorial npc in this game already, but there should be a guide npc literally infront of you when you spawn which says "you must be a newcomer" or smt and explain some leveling and ui basics for you.

Okay. Let's say Eclipse did miss the tutorial as a buncha people are saying. WHAT MAKES IT STAND OUT??? It's right next to spawn? Okay, let's say you join the game and - instead of wanting to read a bunch of dialogue - you go for a little walk around town. You talk to some NPCs, and they don't offer a whole lot that you care about. So, you move right on ahead due to there not being anything to base the need to speak to that specific NPC off of. If it's possible to miss the tutorial because you didn't do some arbitrary thing, that's bad design. It's not like this is the kind of thing that can fix itself with an "aha" moment later on, because due to a player missing the tutorial there will likely be no later on. Integrate the tutorial into the UI or GTFO.

I think eclipse actually took an L on this bro. Half the arguments were dumb shit like you have a 20 second break between encounters and him failing to find the tutorial npc which is very much on him the game literally tells you to talk to him. If your told to talk to an npc wouldn’t you talk to the first one you see? Which is where the tutorial guy is; right in front of you on spawn.

for the people saying that he couldnt have known the closest npc to spawn told you how to level up (dumb argument imo), the game description also tells you to press m to meditate on mats, and he clearly read the game description because of the "Little to no handholding", so either he talked to every npc except the tutorial npc, or read the description except the "m to meditate on mats" part...

You missed the tutorial right in front of you and the controls which explains how to level up. You didn't talk to the NPCs in front of you but you talked to the NPCs across the map

Hey eclipse i would like to tell you that you are so unlucky! How did you not find anyone or even talk to the tutorial NPC

Eclipse, why don’t you ever show any amount of curiosity when it comes to video games? I understand if it’s something obscure and that a lot of people wouldn’t see, but in the hour that you played the game, you never saw people sitting on that carpet and wondered “hm, i wonder what they’re doing”, got a prompt to meditate, and did it? I get most of your other criticisms, but you’re far too conceited to expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter. You seem… privileged, to say the least? Or you just have a personal problem with games that don’t say “hey this is what everything does!” it’s probably just a personal opinion that i hold, but it’s kinda disappointing when games give you all your resources outright rather than letting them figure it out themselves.

Why are you coping and whining? Theres a tutorial npc right next to spawn and while some things are unintuitive the system isn't as bad as you make it out to be. This is a lot of hate coming from someone who doesn't know the first thing about the game. For people who played games like rogue, deepwoken, and now arcane lineage, lots of the fun is trial and error and finding new things. Stick to Yba if you're going to moan about your own inability to think for yourself, you sound like IGN.

The game does such an odd job at explaining things that i found out how to level up on accident

meanwhile me watching this after 3 months and now it has only 300 players makes sense though

Lmao keep this dude away from fear and hunger😭

As a long time player of games of this genre inferring things like the leveling system by exploring the mats around spawn people are constantly on seemed like an obvious thing but I can understand how it could be confusing for a new player, same with the combat trainer systems and not telling you the exact requirements but since that usually isnt information given out to the players in exact numbers in these games it wasnt difficult to figure out with no input, a significant portion of these games that make them appealing is figuring things out, the reason it feels fun to not have a tutorial explanation at the start to do all these things is it makes the game feel like a simulator with a bright yellow arrow pointing you towards what you need to do generally speaking these systems are pretty obvious when you think about what the npcs say or what other players are doing. Npc says you are too weak: get stronger, what makes you stronger? levels do, so it must be a level requirement. How do I level up? Well every battle I get a secondary currency that isnt money so thats probably experience, I see next to spawn there are mats and people sitting on them all the time so I walk up to one and see I can meditate on it, so I go in and talk to the npcs and find out how to level up. This kind of thing really doesn't need to be explained it takes very minimal effort to figure these things out if you actually try. I don't think you need to look up anything to enjoy this game or understand it I played the game almost entirely without that the reason people make trellos and wikis is so that players like you who dont enjoy exploration and figuring out mechanics have another way to learn about the game in the non intended fashion, this isnt bad design its by choice catering to a specific market ''rogue like'' doesnt mean ''rogue lineage like'' it means a game where you need to discover and learn while dying to improve and get better and thats what makes it feel rewarding. A lot of that is taken away by having the information and strategy's freely given to you to succeed on the first try and if you want to play the game like that, its totally fine! More power to the player, but its not the way the game was designed to be played and not what players like me find enjoyable about the genre.

i played this game when it was in a public testing phase like.. about a year and a half ago probably the game was pretty barebones back then, and all of the problems you point out here are exactly how it was back then when i heard the game came out, i decided to give it a shot, and guess what! not a THING had changed between public testing and the full release.

bro got corrupted earring of recovery at lvl 1 thats crazy

I joined it once and immediately left after 2 seconds and I'm VERY glad that I did.

The game would be so good if the lead developer actually cared AT ALL. Dude literally left one of the most grindy achievement bugged for literally days, another dev has to step in. He’s always playing type soul (has 6 players) instead of actually working on the game and improving it.

I mean everything is true aside from the fact that THE FIRST FUCKING NPC that is the closest to you actually explains how to lvl up with essence by pressing M on a matress and also gives you a 'starter quest' that tells you how many you need to kill. and after figuring out lvling up, you could always go back to those npcs that denied you after getting stronger adventually getting your class but idk how but this guy talked to all npcs BUT that first one weird. aside from all the problems, which I agree. -NOT being able to lvl up is on you

I agree with quite a few criticisms like how to level or the fact that it just doesn't tell you about vital info but at the same time even if your not trying to tab out to look it up there's a community that's also a part of the game that you could have just asked at any time.

Talk about sol's rng next. There is no game but still 70k people are playing it

The fact he didnt open his inventory once

I usually chalk up weird or terrible game design to this “being different is good” craze that a lot of games are trying to do. A lot of devs, for some reason, think that being a contrarian and going against common game sense makes your game good. So, an example: one of my friends sent me a screenshot of their stats In a roblox RPG (long dead and I don’t know the name of it) and the devs, for reasons only known to them, decided to go against the color theory present in almost every game that exists. You know what I mean, Health equates to Red/Green, Blue is mana, Stamina is usually green, blah blah. But, in this game, Pink meant health, purple was mana, and Orange was sprint. Your usual color choices were either for game specific mechanics or just non-existent. Really made me wonder why the devs did it, and how would anyone figure it out short of dying a few times to notice their pink bar going down when they get hit.

I mostly agree but it does tell you what you got after completing a quest in the bottom left