Are CrossFit Games Athletes Seasons DEAD? Massive Quarterfinals PENALTIES with Andrew Hiller 

If you get knocked down to say 300 in a workout Crossfit HAS TO check every video before 300. If not, you can only get knocked down to the lowest video validated. How can they not??? It makes no sense.

Hiller did his job. Crossfit is finally holding standards. Too bad they did it the most idiotic way possible. From not enforcing standards to strict enforcement with no warning. Way to go Crossfit, you just made Crossfit look bad again. Hiller is spot on its all about consistency and messaging.

All credit to you Hiller. Having the personal capability to question how you may have reacted if you hadn't tried to help that other Gentleman (Bill). It's a VERY rare attribute!!

Oh boy Hiller's eyes... Seems as if he didn't have any sleep for days. I think he is worried sick I feel so sorry for him. 😢

Online comps should not exist at any level that can derail a athletes season.

I can see justifying the penalties if it were for actual shitty movements… not picking your head up during your step ups?? Ridiculous

Andrew looks so deflated. I really think he has always had the best intentions, especially with Will. And there's Sevan... "this is such great drama." People's lives are really affected by this. It's not just a story.

This is a crossfit attack on Hiller. I’m not conspiracy theorist but it seems they don’t take fancy to how right he always is. Great job Hiller continue doing the lords work.

All I'm saying is Koski redid workouts 1 and 2 (the two worst workouts) because he didn't like the camera angle and some reps. So far, he's still sitting pretty at the top of the leaderboard.... it was possible to do things right... like Hiller has preached for years

Gentlemen, Sevan and Andrew, good on you for taking the time to deeply address these issues thoughtfully and openly. If the wall was brought down at CF HQ and these issues were discussed as well with the community as you are doing, I don't feel the community would be having these issues. Communication, whether we like what we are hearing or not, is moving forward. Again kudos. Know you are appreciated.

They’re going down the list for sure. My kid missed qualifying (age group) by 6 spots and they asked for his workout one video yesterday

If the online review judges are being given more specificity, such as "look for the head position," that is not called out in the movement standards, you cannot expect a live judge to get it right. We tell the live judges at the box and all the athletes "full extension," which rightly emphasizes core not extremity.

The end of CrossFit. They are playing with athletes livelihood today.

Just watched Craig Richie address this issue too and he is basically saying the same that Hiller is.

Dude. You see James Hobart score? He moves flawlessly and he got major penalty

Min 39:48 Sevan is totally right, either the judges in-person need to have the final say even over a "Video Review" or when reviewing a video, it needs to be viewed as if you were watching the athlete live and in-person. Meaning you have to press play, watch start to finish with no pausing, zooming, so as to give an "honest" review as if you were the judge there in person. If you couldn't catch the error judging live and in-person then it should be reasonable to think that it met the standard. (All based off of qualified judges perspective of course, not a buddy judging)

Almost like we should have in person competitions or some form of auto invite to Semi Finals if you went to the games last year

The pictures also show the medball 100% above the line, but that's not actually the requirement. Just like feet being 100% above horizontal plane of a BMU being illegal (when it is apparently just the toes touching the horizontal plane at all ) - that's why you can't just go off of the pictures.

They need to have a stricter requirement for accredited judges. All workouts submitted by accredited judges are automatically accepted. And reviews are only used to check judge performance and their continued accreditation for future events.

Andrew- did you say at 1:30:30 that you fucked up? Did you intentionally not correct him? Why did you state you “should have”? Was Bill not following a standard different then what we think he’s being dinged for “not having is head head up” ?? What is going on 🤦🏻‍♀️

It doesn’t say you can look down at all. So anyone who looked down, at any point, and stepped up would be out. A little silly no?

I dunnoooo, Hiller you created a monster alerting CF to look at Luis Oscar Mora - they could not turn a blind eye it was way obvious he wasn't meeting standards. Now everyone is paying the price. I feel sorry for those who arent going to the games now. But seriously CF effed up too - this head position standard, honestly if they're going to do this, they needed to give a media release & email all participants letting them know they were coming down hard on standards in the quarters. Not just photos in the standards. And give very specifics using video on what would be penalised. Not enough warning of what CF have done with penalties. Im sure more athletes toe the line if CF did this. Its a big issue with CF and judges. These judges are now being scrutinised. Its insane that the AFP judges are being undermined after review. The lazy coach judges who see it & dont no rep - thats their problem. Its sad & crazy all round how this is playing out.

CF should do a probability density plot of rep reduction count across all athletes. If the judging diligence was limited to a smaller sample set of the athletes, then this should show up in the distribution (as it would be something different to a skew normal distribution)

Why have judges in the 1st place??

I'm still working though this so I'm sorry if it was already brought up but I had a comment & question. Comment) There has to be some onus on HQ...we opened our affiliate in 2011 and ran a yearly competition for a decade, every year we programmed there was a conscious decision to not be an asshole and make movement standards as black & white as possible. C2B instead of chin over bar pull-ups, box jump overs instead of full extension at the top, hit the bell at the top of your rope climbs, etc... Judging is a thankless job and it doesn't need to be made more complicated. This HAS to be a consideration for online competitions. Not that standardized testing is a good example but there is typically a review process where if everyone is getting a question wrong it gets flagged for review to determine if there is an issue with the question itself. Question) If Hiller never made his deadlift / head standard video about 24.2 does this still happen?

Solutions 1. Select easily definable Functional Movements for online competition 2. Describe and decide on Purposeful Movement Points of Performance precisely. (eg why have a head position in a standard, why have a "no grip" standard, why have a "facing away from bar" standard? Does it add or confuse the outcome objective, etc??) It certainly adds complexity and therefore difficulty in upholding. You want black or white, in or out rules. Not grey zone nebulous conjecture. Especially with online virtual comps. 3. Cross-check the workout description before publishing (eg Lateral bbjo and then permitting any body position???) 4. Every contender to move forward submits a link to their video which is on the leaderboard. No link no chance to progress. The community will click the link and will judge and notify HQ of concerns. The video edjudication by HQ is only done in real time speed and magnification. The guy you beat will no doubt be looking at your video. This mitigates hq having to review 200 plus videos. 5. Anyone not concerned about progressing, just have fun, move well for health fun and fitness... And the greatest sport ever, the Sport of Life - CrossFit.

1:11:05 when the movie is really good but you have to pee during the exciting scene 🍿🥤

There was nothing in the standards saying you couldn’t step up on the corner of the box. The problem remains that there is no consistency from season to season.

Crossfit can make more money by "renting out" official judges for QFs and if you do this, you don't need to submit a video and the score is automatically approved and validated (cue "pay to win" arguments).

I find this demoralizing. This is going to hurt crossfit. I never agreed with video submissions it should be done in person with a judge present making the decisions on no reps.

"Don't fear failure. Not failure, but low aim, is the crime. In great attempts it is glorious even to fail." - Bruce Lee. Hiller you put your money where your mouth is! Stand strong, dont let these keyboard warriors bring you down. They are keyboard warriors for a reason and nobody will remember their name.

Hopefully this drives crossfit to have a live competition season to qualify for the games like a real sport.

Is there an issue for the professional judges to judge the person who is also paying them? There has to be a point where if you are too strict or no repping an athlete where the coach would just kick you out.

Can we not see the videos? This is so silly. No videos should be private

The way HQ has done this will make the biggest impact ... the true test will be what happens next year & beyond. you make videos for max views ... they do this for max impact.

52:45 i would assemble 11 sumo wrestlers for the O and D line and the rest ruby players

Next Monday

Speaking of the James Hobart videos….. did you see he also got penalized

First, there had to be a tipping point and it happened to be this year. Movement standards by those trying to qualify, including the top athletes, have gotten worse and worse, as they try to game the workouts and cut corners. CrossFit historically has ignored this and not reviewed many videos and let people through. They even went as far as implementing the Brookwell’s quote has the capacity to do the work” debacle a few years back. The standard has always been hips and knees extended, and everything, including feet, knees, hips, shoulders, head in line with one another on box step ups, snatch, and clean & jerk. These are all very similar movement patterns and the standards have always been that, but now suddenly people are surprised the penalties are being given out. On the box step ups, you can’t have your shoulders slump forward and not have a break at crease. That’s a no rep no matter how you slice it. It’s just that it hasn’t been called in previous years, but that doesn’t mean the standard shouldn’t be followed and that they’re calling the penalties now is wrong. Athletes have gotten lazy and their movement patterns and been able to get away with it for years. This is a great thing, the wallet might cost some athletes this year, it will make them and everyone much more diligent in following the rules, following the standards, And redoing workouts as many did to ensure they were perfect. It’s like getting pulled over by the police for speeding and being mad that they didn’t brief you that they were going to pull you over, when they actually finally did. The speed limit is a standard and you broke it and perhaps next time you won’t speed.

They don’t need to check everyone down to 600th, they just have to check everyone who enters the regional top 40 after every penalised person drops out. It may eventually go to 600th, but not necessarily

Why is there not an athlete brief prior to each of these online comps. Allow time for questions, etc... fully explain and emphasize what the standard means.

the biggest penalty you should recurve should be the score of the last persons video you judge if 50 people fit a certain workout are judged your penalty shouldn’t go below that

I feel one way to attack this is any video that is validated their score ranks above any in their category. Just like if I do several reps in scaled and you do even 1 rep RX you rank above me. Anyone with a video that's been checked ranks above any score without a submitted video.

God Sevan can be so stupid at times. Does he realize how much these althetes put into season? We're talking about peoples lives. Have a heart for these althetes. Hats off to Hiller.

Most of the people with the strongest opinions have private accounts. I also think most of you could not stand up to the criticism your sending out. I think hillier can give it and take it. If you don’t like it don’t fucking watch. I turn it off sometimes and reassess.

I think Hillers backed them in to a corner 1 to many times over the last couple of years and they came out swinging hard .

But they are not being more strict than ever !!! Just strict with the top ones ????!!!!

I'm admittedly ignorant but.... why submit the 1st 2 scores early and not scrutinize them for 4 days? Why not submit everything at once. That way people can take time to check their videos and redo them if necessary. Now it seems the 1st workout is getting hammered. Why have them hurry through the 1st two. Surely I'm missing something...

The comment from Fon Daul about Zelos games is definitely inaccurate but the response is also inaccurate, just less so

..Hiller is the man -

Is it possible CrossFit HQ used an Ai program to judge the videos?

If you get knocked down below 300, the people in the middle don’t matter, the new 40th place person is next to be judged. We only need 40 people, who cares if you end up 300 or 254

Wait, we’ve been screaming no reps and now we’re upset? Did we really think they would ding everyone. (Even though they should) They make examples out of the ones they choose.

Instructions are clear, get straight at the top of the box, if an athlete is not able to do that it’s there fault! Never rely on a judge to do your job

"You know what a thruster is . . . " CrossFit presumed upon athletes' due diligence, and then punished those who failed to demonstrate that due diligence . . . CrossFit made a something-burger out of a nothing-burger

Poor Hiller he's a good dude

..it is not to right slow it down - you have to watch in real time

You don‘t HAVE to submit a video right? Why submit a video then? Am I stupid? The people trying to be transparent by submitting a video are the ‚effed‘ ones? Did I get that right?

Batman cleaned up Gotham and perched on a ledge overlooking the city. Pushing for equality and justice Batman took a zero tolerance approach to hold the villains to the fire. Then Batman showed he’s not without fault. Instead of humility Batman turned on the Justice Department he so desperately wanted because they finally did what he so craved …equally

Hell guys

Are Hiller and Billiam still friends? Or is he mad at Hiller?

Paid judges that failed the athletes need to give the payment back.

This will be turned into new way for crossfit to make money. Hire HQ judges, 500/ video.... Why video and why ha judge at all. Just submit and pray.

At the end of the day the top 40 in the NA East and NA West move on to the next stage.

This is CF, forced in chaos and we thrive in it, so all the people now, again, coming down on CF HQ; really? CF holds standards, their standards and that's it. Everything else is just us yapping. A sport holds the standards said by the people running the show.

Come on! Really dude. You are the Batman - everyone is wrong -either way except the batman.

Hillers been accusing people of cheating for not doing the standard. It hurts his ego more than anything that Mr.standards doesn't know the standards

Hiller at this point should pick a new format to his youtube videos. He created a platform and self claimed to be the person to uphold movement standards in crossfit competition but then he misses a standard to an athlete that trusted him on movement standards to move forward to semis. Everyone that is judging for competitive athletes should read and memorize the movement standards, no excuses. It’s not rocket science people.

Sevan asks Hiller, Will you examine and break down Bills video and workout? Hiller- its up to him Does he also ask the athletes he does videos on if its ok? Is it up to them to? Come on Hill

Hiller sounds like a cry baby at this point.

Sevan “I’d like to see this fixed, before peace in the Middle East.” Big LOL

Why is everything with CrossFit going to shit??? Thought they brought in this new guru ceo??? Maybe he’s the problem????

I may be cynical - but I think this whole judging dilemma is a PR stunt. It’s going to create a lot of opportunities for media and content, it show cases the CF brand having “integrity” (to movement a core value), it shakes up the leaderboard to create excitement and injects the athletes with fear to prove themselves. All in all a pretty good marketing scheme.