I feel it is mains who are the most toxic, or more specifically the people who only play a single side, someone who plays both survivor and killer is less likely to be toxic because they know what its like to be on the receiving end on either side.
You’re 100% right. Every time I get extremely over-the-top, entitled, and toxic messages from a survivor or killer, I can check their stats/stream/achievements and see that the role they’re playing is the only one they ever play. And as someone who plays both sides, I actively avoid playing in ways that make the other side have less fun. I don’t ever play Deathslinger anymore, for example, just because I can’t have fun knowing the survivors aren’t. I used to love him when he was first released, but when I realized how miserable he was to go against, I stopped playing him.
Only time I'm """toxic""" as killer is when I have no other option, or it's overwhelmingly my best option. Two guys hooked right next to each other? I'm camping them, it's the best play. Got one guy on the hook and it's end game? I'm face camping, I want at least one kill. If a guy that just got unhooked throws himself at me and dies, I'm hooking him and killing him. I see two survivors and one is injured on death hook and one is healthy on first hook? You already know who I'm chasing. The worst I do as survivor is go clicky-clicky with a flashlight when I want to be chased. Sometimes I do a dance at exit gates, but I still give hits
I tried to play survivor, I couldn't bear the lesser amount of bp they get for doing most of the gens when no one else did and escaping. It was actually making me feel very negative things until I just stopped and kept just playing killer.
@@pobster88j94 he doesn't have a lot of expression, but I just started playing 2 weeks ago. So I need to learn the basics. And wraith seems to be the most fundamental killer
I was facecamped by a Dev playing Bubba once. And let me tell you, while the average player facecamping is bad, a dev doing it just makes you lose all faith in the game.
"This killer tunneled me, he deserves to be teabagged" "This survivor teabagged me, he deserves to be facecamped" "This killer facecamped me, he deserves a hate message" "This survivor sent me a hate message, survivors are so toxic. Entitled survivor mains smh" "This guy tunneled, camped, and hit me on hook, killers are so toxic. Boosted killer mains smh"
One time i played against a Trapper that downed picked UP, forced me to wiggle(did not put on Hook or drop) then downed, then picked UP, and so on. I spent like an hour on that shit. I didnt DC because i really wanted the blood points.
Or get slugged at 5 gens and only getting 3k BP... Or better yet, getting yeeted out of the match early by a tombstone Myers with 5 event cakes brought.
bro the rates for cakes on survivor is crazy, literally can go like 5 levels on a level 50 survivor and get 0 cakes, dont even judge when ppl dont bring any
It’s hella annoying when a surv is desperate for you to chase them, I just gray rock them and let them annoy themselves because I’m ignoring their BM’s
@@ChillJunky yea, when they follow you, they ain't doing Gens, and by clicking you know where they are at all times! So a 3 v 1 is sooo much easier to handle! 1 on hook 1 has to safe 1 in chase! Life's good
People always paint it as "which side is toxic", but it has nothing to do with killer or survivor. The people themselves are toxic regardless of role. For example, at one point I was playing killer and someone was mad that the game didn't go their way and so they decided to call me the N-word for daring to not let them win. Well, a day or so later I'm playing survivor with some friends and after a game where the killer made a lot of mistakes, guess who it was? The same guy, and you'll never believe it, but he called us all the N-word for not letting him win.
This is all true and a lot of the arguing isn't really productive. Scott has a good point which is essentially survivors can be annoying with their toxicity where as killers literally ruin the game for everyone if they're toxic. I feel this is a better point than one side is worse than others since it has more usefulness than "other side bad". Obviously people sending messages is toxic as hell but that is more a gaming discussion than a DbD one.
I agree with Scott’s points but also I feel like when people are talking about toxicity I feel like it’s the post game chat. Survivors when they lose sometimes like to accuse the killer of camping and tunneling or slugging when you really went out of your way to not to or you and no choice. Most toxic survivors are entitled. Of course there are instances where the killer is toxic and I won’t deny that.
It also depends on how you define those things, some survivors consider only hooking 1-2 survivors and slugging the others to be "tunneling" even though it's a good strategy on several killers since hooking can be time consuming.
I mean, for killers it's always "DS unbreakable scum" or "deliverance and BT needs a nerf" or really any second chance perks. For both sides, they both suck because there isn't anything you can do against it. Usually killers will spam hitting on the hook because of how loud it is or let you bleed out for 4 minutes instead of sending hate in post game. I feel like the latter is worse since it directly makes playing the game unfun and words don't mean much when you can ignore them. At the end of the day, it's always people who only main one side. It really sucks playing both, so I empathize most of the time others complain.
@@TheDreadedJuggernaut totally agree with you. Again I agree with Scott I was just bringing up something I feel like was worth mentioning but you’re totally right about killers saying those things.
I’d say both sides can be equally toxic, but survivors generally are the more “entitled” form of toxicity. In-game they also can teabag, click spam at killer, stuff like that… or even do toxic things to fellow teammates. With killers in-game, it is actions like hitting someone on hook, bleeding them out, that sort of thing… as the only objectively toxic behaviour, other things may be done because the killer doesn’t know any better, or they genuinely think it’s the best strategic move. My definition of toxic definitely differs from Scott’s, but I understand his view. Just because a survivor teabagging or clicking doesn’t benefit them, doesn’t mean they aren’t intentionally being an ass: THAT is being toxic to me. Basecamping Bubba’s are unfun, so is NOED, but neither are necessarily “toxic” by themselves. They might be actions attached to other toxic behaviour, but they in themselves are not toxic imo. Then end-game chat is pretty much equal in terms of possibility. Although having played both sides, survivors complaining is much more frequent IN MY EXPERIENCE, even when I account for the fact there’s 4 survivors compared to 1 killer (regardless of the role I play).
Being accused of tunneling when you're actively searching the map for literally anyone else and only finding the one guy trying to do gens is fun, yet nothing gets said about the three other survivors who had been hiding in lockers and bush covered corners fully immersing themselves the entire game.
The only thing that really makes me annoyed about this game is frame drops, i play console and if I try to round a sharp corner as bubba get a frame drop and bump into something it is the most infuriating thing, so lately I’ve stopped playing until I can get a better console or the game runs smoother
Console dbd is really not optimized and even people on next gen are getting frames drops when they try to dead hard and use their power on blight it’s awful
If it makes you feel any better, survivors get the same stuttering. Regardless of killer, a lot of times they'll swing and my game will just stall, and I'll be injured and end up facing some random direction (often staring right at the killer or a wall). The fact that they released the update knowing it was this bad, just shows they don't give a shit about last-gen players.
I think the percieved notion that survivors can be more toxic at times, is due to the fact that survivors can "gang up" against a killer in terms of hate. 4 people at once. that usually only happens with swf. which is where the hate i feel comes from. in terms of gameplay, theres more actual things a killer can do to be toxic. most a survivor can do these days is tbag, flashlight click and maybe bring an unfun build. In reality it comes down to the actual players themselves. multiple people telling someone they should slit their appendages because someone plays blight (As happened with me two days ago) is quite shitty. not like anything will be done about it though, since bhvr doesn't seem to do much with reports.
Because he points out obvious flaws in the accepted narrative of killer is weak, survivor is entitled. Go on dbd forum and it’s literally a killer main circle jerk and if you say anything about killer toxicity they flip out. Devs promote it too.
@@mrpoggg8694 how often does that honestly happen, tho? it also doesn’t mean you’re incapable of finding someone, just makes it a lot harder. and really, if they’re that bad, DC. take the penalty and move on, the game didn’t even start
@Rain Vellicort i mean if I'm killer and can't find someone then I'll just browse my pc or something till end game collapse is over. However Getting bleeded out as a survivor as the killer just stands over you is much more toxic than hiding. Just my opinion and I've had it happen in solo que alot when you're that one survivor that loops the killer for so long.
@@lagua5363 Most of the time survivors are toxic flat out and don't even know what tunneling etc actually is so they just call everything tunneling because they don't want to admit they just.. lost.
I’m, unfortunately, going to have to disagree with you, Scott, for one reason; You assume toxicity only exists when it’s ‘Side vs Side’. As in, Killers being toxic to Survivors, or vice versa. In reality, Survivors have the most potential to be toxic because, as you briefly mentioned, they can sandbag their own team. It’s admittedly not as common, especially not when on purpose, but in my nearly 3k hours playing the game, I’ve unfortunately seen a lot of that; Survivors purposefully throwing pallets in your face during a chase, coming to you while on hook and hook spamming only to then leave you, or just blocking doorways to make sure you get hit. It’s not super common, but it still happens. Is it beneficial to the Killer to do so? Yes, absolutely, but that’s irrelevant. An AFK’ing Wraith may be boring to go up against, but it’s a far cry from having your own team play against you. The fact of the matter is, when a Killer wants to be toxic, they need to actually play the game or forfeit it; they bring Moris, they use disappointing perks like NOED, or they camp. That’s not fun, but in most cases it still requires them to actually play the game as it was intended - or forfeit their own win. The above, however, forfeits the win for the entire team and ruins the experience for whoever is the target, if not everyone. I’m saying this as someone who plays both sides, albeit I have more hours as Survivor than Killer. All if the above aside, this is also without mentioning that, in post-game chat, Killers only really have one avenue to be toxic; blame or ridicule the other side for using cheap perks or map offerings. Survivors can do that, *and* can also shift the blame / hate to their own team if they do poorly, and often do. In-fighting between Survivors is obscenely common. It’s not fun to see, and especially not fun to be the target of. Tl;dr: AFK’ing and camping as Killer is the most toxic thing anyone can ever do, according to Scott, and I disagree.
AFK'ing is whatever, honestly but facecamping is I think the most toxic action in the game. Sure, teabagging is annoying and disrespectful, but when you lose a chase right at the beginning of the game and get facecamped you just lost 10-15 minutes doing absolutely fuckall because this one dude decided to. And before you say he also does nothing, he actually does. He gets at least one kill + at least one down from survivors trying to save, + 1 hook from tunneling while the one being camped even loses a rank a lot of the times. This is a game, I wanna do shit I don't want to watch Bubba stare at me for however long the hook lasts. I don't give a rats ass if a killer or survivor is being toxic to me in post game chat, I can roll my eyes and be done with it but when it affects the actual gameplay it turns the whole experience into shit.
@@dec4th Basically, AFK’ing is, at worst, boring. Survivors can be toxic towards Killers *and* bully their own team mates, which isn’t just boring, it outright ruins the game for everyone.
@@GoldenNara60 Exactly, which is why I think Survivors have the most potential for toxicity. A facecamping Bubba is frustrating, but they can only target one person at a time. A Survivor who’s decided to bully their team can throw every pallet in the map, hide items, sandbag team mates, annoy people by hook spamming or vault spamming, etc. They basically ruin it for their entire team.
I've seen a double SWF before, where one group was messing around and the others were super sweaty meta teams, and they started flaming each other after the game.
"If seeing people tea-bag at the exit gates really bothers you that much, just don't go to the exit gates. In two minutes they have to leave." Survivors only take 4 minutes to bleed out, it'll likely be even less time since in most scenarios they've already lost some or a large portion of the timer when it comes time for a toxic killer to leave a survivor on the ground. Sure just in general both cases it's not a very long time, but it's incredibly annoying to think about how someone is just wasting your time purely to piss you off.
I'm excited for console to be UNfucked, so that I can play nemesis. What's great about him is you can play punch the zombie for points when the douchebags are wanking by the gates.
This is a fantastic example of how someone's actions have a huge influence on society as a whole. All it takes is one really bad experience for someone to be put on a bad path. All you had to do is NOT be toxic, but that ONE "funny thing" that you did, just set someone on a path to terrorize someone else. This is exactly why Bullying IS a problem: it creates MORE problems down the line. There are two key takeaways here: 1: It is your CHOICE and RESPONSIBILITY to behave yourself - it not only shows that you are a fucking mature adult, but it sets in motion a precedent that can be good or bad. 2: if you are on the receiving end of toxicity, you have a CHOICE to be affected by it or to move on. Bonus points if you point out that it's not cool for the other person to behave that way and would they accept that treatment themselves? You might actually calm someone down from being an asshole, and make them accept that they need to change. You can always choose to put the world around on on a path of ruination or healing. The point is: it's YOUR choice.
While they do benefit the killer, if the killer gets triggered enough they'll probably play worse which benefits the survivors. I think most people fall prey to it.
Yes, the in game actions hurt the survivor and benefit the killer. My issue is just that they're being a jerk enough to want to try to irritate the killer. It's the intention that upsets me, not the action.
@@PhantomHalf don't misunderstand me, I don't let it get to me. I don't let it affect me in game. I'm saying it is toxic, poor sportsmanship, and it shouldn't be excused because it's a mind game, or it's using all toolsavailable. We have to agree at the very least that it is toxic and poor sportsmanship, even if we may disagree that it is a valid strategy, right?
When i'm playing against camping or tunneling killer it usually only bores me a little bit. When i'm playing against like 2 tbagging “toxic” survivors it usually angers me. And for me personally anger is worse than a little bit of boredom.
I agree with this, I stopped tea bagging all together cause the best way to make someone feel like shit is escaping especially of it's a three escape and one death. I'm glad Scott pointed out tea bagging at pallets only hurts survivor and they are not gaining any distance and will be caught sooner also spirit fury and enduring makes those people screem when they see that pallet break. Also lightborn is great to run if they try flashlights blind you at pallet and relaxed it's not working
I love how even when you say "Nothing is toxic", you still meet the majority of people that say that it is so you can explain and give some solid points and arguments on which side is more "toxic". Thank you, Scoot.
There's one thing that survivors can do that I had forgotten about until I finally remembered, idk what to call it so I'll give an example: Say you're at 2 gens and they have only 2 people left, they start looking for a key and DONT find one. They then, instead of trying to repair the gens (maybe killer has a good 3/4 gen) decide to just hide somewhere far away from all the gens and just stealth for like 5+ minutes and hoping the killer gets bored and DC's. I've had it happen where the survivors kept me hostage in a game for 20 extra minutes just cause they didn't get the ez win they wanted. Other than that I agree with Scott.
I agree with everything you said and have two things to add: - the most toxic things survivors can do in game are the things that are toxic towards their fellow survivors. And one of the worst - and most common of late - is dcing after their first down . It's selfish and screws everyone else over. - I'm also happy when survivors do "toxic" actions towards me as killer, but for another reason on top of that it's detrimental to their chances of escaping. When I play killer I sometimes feel bad about eliminating people, especially if it seems like they're struggling or having a rough time, so when a survivor teabags me or spams their flashlight in my face its almost a relief because you can bet I'm gonna enjoy murdering their arse.
Honestly well reasoned-most people tend to forget to factor in the 4-1 ratio when trying to see which side has a greater population of toxic players. Also interesting point regarding each side's *potential* for toxicity-overall another good video Scott!
I play both side, and I would say Survior, you can get a full team of toxic survivors but getting 4 toxic killers in a row is nearly impossible, plus I've never gotten a message from a killer but I have over 100 messages from survivors
Yeah but what about intent. Like legit some killer players can't win or do well if they try and play without any camping or tunelling. They may be new and just don't know any better. You can't make a case for that with literal 4 man bully squads... 3 Ds's, 2 unbreakables, 3 head ons, 2 borrowed times and 4 flashlights. Not to mention whatever shithole map they sent you too. Its cobblers, I'd rather play against a toxic killer, than any toxic survivors.
@@johntoye6602 I think people focus too much on winning and not enough on improving their various skills related to the game such as tracking and chasing. If they're new, too, they'll slowly learn how to react and what to do and there's various videos giving tips, too. You say you would rather play against a toxic killer, but what about a toxic killer and a toxic survivor? Don't forget that survivor is the team side and toxicity knows no bound.
@@william4996 I don't have it set so that random people can comment anymore because I kept getting weird ass comments lmao. People generally don't care enough to add someone to chew them out or give them grief.
Hi Scott, Great Video! Always good to hear your opinions :) Quick question, as I thought about this point while watching the video. Do you think the ability for survivors to hold the game hostage is something they can do to deny the killer from playing the game? (Meaning that they hide/ keep rotating lockers so the killer can’t progress in the game) In my brain, if the killer is unlucky, the only option is to leave the game or the survivors could hold them there for as long as they wanted. I believe this could be far worse than anything the killer could do too slow the game/ make it not fun for the other players. Obviously this isn’t very common and would require a coordinated team, however, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this as being potentially toxic even if it was the final 2 or 3 survivors in the game? Cheers :)
I think killers have more tools to play in a shitty way. However, I 10000% agree with you that the endgame chat is what is actually toxicity, not survivors flashlight clicking. In my experience playing killer, I have had a lot of issues with bullying and harassment in endgame chat over the years. The fact that there's 4 people on one team automatically allows them to gang up on the killer and all be assholes to them and it's a 4v1 which is awful to experience as killer. Also profile comments can be toxic too
felt that about killers being able to completely ruin the whole game for people on a different level 😔 my worst/most unfair experience w a killer so far was a pig who bodyblocked me in a corner of lery's while i had an active trap on. literally kept me there and waited for the entire timer to run out, and it was obviously boring and frustrating as hell.
I remember a previous video you were talking about the fact the devs “fix” problems by throwing perks at them and it opened my eyes to the fact that all the un fun things a killer can do only have counters through perks. There is no protection to getting killed off hook unless your savior has borrowed time, theres nothing stopping you from being camped on the floor as you slowly bleed out unless you have soul guard, also proxy camping a hook is only countered by a perk that stops the hook timer rather than that just being a mechanic, if the killer had to stand at least a small distance from the hook it makes the obnoxiousness of it a lot less unfair and gives a chance to at least let the guy on hook be saved. obviously theres also ds that is now soley an anti tunneling perk but being anti tunneled for a whole minute is actually worth the perk slot. I feel like I have to run borrowed time every match just because if I don’t and the killer wants to be a dick he can just ruin the game for pretty much everyone. Basically I’m saying there shouldn’t have to be so many bandaid perks to fix these problems that also are what will push new players away, because by the time you get these solution perks you’re already at red ranks where the killers usually are just trying to play normally so then there’s not even a point.
Yeah, a lot of the perks both sides get should really be base kit honestly. Not all of them, of course, but a lot would make more sense as default mechanics. Current DS, a weaker form of BT, Kindred, a weaker form of Unbreakable, all of these would help make playing Survivor less annoying to play as. Of course there's the issue of survivors having basically zero gameplay, but that's a separate topic. I think killers should get some help too, like Save the Best for Last, maybe Play with your Food too. The thing with killer perks is that they're not usually as crazy as their powers, so I don't think they have as many weaknesses that need to be covered. Both sides should also start with the beginner perks by default, like Zanshin and Windows.
@@abderianagelast7868 I would agree with most of this aside from the giving killers a passive like save the best or play with your food. I feel bloodlust is already a great deal but maybe giving them a free perk slot to have 1 aura perk or a free hex totem slot would work wonders and maybe giving survivors the same treatment . This might also make alot of other not meta builds be played bc more synergy can happen. Like rn powerstruggle is a trash perk bc it need 3 perks to work with it. Adding a free slot for something will round the build off and maybe make it a playstyle for someone. Giving a killer a free hex totem slot would make something like third seal decent bc its free. Of course making this the free hex I don't think undying should be able to protect it. Doing this will also help slightly with gen speeds killer mains tend to complain about by adding another hex to cleans to the game. Also maps are very unbalanced and that should be fixed tbh.
@@Helperishere Ooh, I actually like that idea! A free hex perk incentives both killers to run more hexes and survivors to do more hexes. I know I never use hexes because I don't like having my perks disappear, so that would definitely help me out a lot.
i got bored of public matches because I always had the same band-aid perks. There’s very little variation outside of killer and perk load out. I haven’t been playing DBD for 6 months outside of a few customs with friends.
I do think your right. As a killer main who doesn’t play survivor much I have seen a lot of toxic survivors. But that’s because I’m only playing killer. And something that helped me realize this was when I was playing a survivor game for a mission and just got the most annoying mires that camped me the whole game(which probably happened because I was at low ranks and my whole team was next to the hook), but you get my point.
COUNTERPOINT: The Survivors can INDEED wreck a game, via exploits. Just had one where a survivor was able to get on top of a rock and into a crack (on the Yamaoka Home map). I was able to down her but not pick her up, nor find a way in there. Wasted a lot of time waiting for her to bleed out, while the other survivor hid as all I could practically do was patrol the remaining three gens. Sure, she bled out, and he ended up dying from the timer running out, but this survivor did indeed take control over the game being played.
@@zant2146 Teabagging was invented for toxicity. Though when you teabag at the exit gates, you're not only getting on the killer's nerves for disrespect, but also telling them "you suck, you couldn't kill me, loser." There are far more toxic things they can do, especially in endgame chat. The only time teabagging in DBD isn't toxic is when you do it to your teammate to get them to heal you.
Yes, i see your point, everytime when the killer wins survivors actually cries and says stuff like "you tunneler/camper" etc. It doesn't matter what you do during a match as killers, survivors mostly never be satisfied, even if you play fair or a build that is not that strong if they don't escape, you are toxic -rep
in my opinion the fact that it helps the killer makes it worse. like they're purposefully doing something that ends up helping the killer purely so they can piss them off, makes it seem a lot more personal then just a bubba face camping the first person they down.
I love alot of your perspective videos man. I'm glad I subscribed a while ago. I feel as though you highlight main problems as well as try to think outside the box and open conversations to change people's opinions. Keep on keeping on
You said it how it needed to be said, Scott. Another thing to take into consideration is when your learning a new killer people can be assholes. But besides that great video!
Thankfully, Hag is OP as fuck and has insane addons with fantastic base perks so I didn't get shit on much at all. Had some close 1 gen left games tho.
@@lagua5363 Not really. Killer has higher potential to make a match unfun. Survivors do it a fuck ton more often. A shark will fuck you up, but odds are higher you'll die to road rage.
@@GreysTavern Well, i get tunneled maybe half of the time, when i'm the killer, toxic survivors are training me to be better and if they are bad, i'm satisfied because i killed them even if they tried to bully me
@@lagua5363 I suspect you are not getting tunneled nearly as often as you think you are. I play plenty of survivor and have been "tunneled" maybe one game in every 60-70.
Valid points here, but my argument for survivors being more toxic is that toxicity feels worse as a killer. If you're a survivor, it's very likely that you're in a SWF and at least have someone to complain to about how the killer is face-camping. You can joke about how dumb it is and tell your friend to just leave you alone and go do gens. As a killer, there is no comfort in comradery - you just have to take it in silence. Another way it feels worse as killer, even though this is a minor point, is that a toxic killer still remains within the thematic space of DBD. Even if I'm being tunneled, I still feel like I'm in a horror scenario with a killer that wants me dead. But when toxic survivors are fearlessly tea-bagging you as a killer, it breaks any semblance of immersion that you're a killer and everyone else is just desperately trying to 'survive' an encounter with you. 6:33 I envy you if you can rationalize that behavior as them helping you, but you also have to keep in mind that for people at low levels and for victims of bad matchmaking - survivors that are way better than you can make those sacrifices to ignore gens and harass you while still being in full control of the situation and winning the trial. Some of the most frustrating toxicity I've experienced as killer is when the survivors seem fully aware that they can afford to be toxic to me and still comfortably win because of a large skill gap. 7:27 Also with tea-bagging at the exit gates, you do have to subject yourself to that if you want to get into another match quickly. Otherwise you're letting them waste several minutes of your time, which seems just as much "not letting the other side play the game" as face-camping. It would be one thing if they would actually leave, but some survivors will wait out nearly the entire timer just for the chance to taunt you at the gates, which forces you to make a habit of chasing them out of the trial in order to save time.
Great video. I have close to 800 hrs in this game combined on console and pc. 750 of those are on survivor. If I’m fortunate enough to snowball a game as killer or if a survivor DCs I’ll almost always give the 4th survivor hatch as I feel it promotes a healthier community and as a survivor main I know I’d really appreciate it. Of course, toxicity changes that, Lol. I won’t tunnel, I won’t camp, he’ll I even try not to buy Mori’s in the bloodweb. Of course if the gameplay calls for playing close to hook or at hook I’ll play the game. Remember guys, games like DbD are few and far between and to have the community that cares about this game like it does are few and far between. GL HF!!
What about survivors who are just hiding and being stealthy, never doing generators or trying to progress the match? That could be argued to be the equivalent to a face camping bubba, robbing the other side to playing the game (although it's 1 person suffering instead of 4). Excluding newbies, I've seen rank 1's swf's do this to annoy me as the killer.
Yeah that’s true, I’ve had a lot of games where I’m on an indoors map and spent 20 minutes trying to find the last 2 survivors. Like yeah, neither of us are getting the game over with, but it just stops the game and is extremely annoying.
While a rare thing to happen, this is in my opinion by far the most toxic way of play and the worst way to take a game hostage. I really wish BHVR implemented a penalty for not doing gens in x time while not being in a chase and not being close to the killer.
Hey Scott I love your videos! I feel like you are one of the only dbd channels that comes across as genuine and passionate about the health and environment of the game. You state the facts objectively with no bias and break down arguments happening over the game into their basic components so that everyone can understand. Keep up the great videos and I fear the day if you ever decide to leave the dbd community because you really are a voice of reason.
I think a lot of it just boils down to "in a perfect world, we wish people wouldn't be dicks", but we work with what we can change, not what we can't. So this video's advice is incredibly helpful for that.
Since this game doesn't have a set win condition, my win condition is whether or not I feel annoyed once the match ended. If I had to sweat against a toxic 4-man swf and just barely got the 4k, it's still a lost to me since I'm just pissed. On the other hand, if I go against a team that's either simply better than me or I just was learning a new killer or something to that extent and they get away without being toxic, I don't feel displeased since it was a good match.
@@lazypayday4476 but there are matches where u simply couldnt do anything about bcus for example ur ruin and undying gets cleansed at the beggining of a match and ur playing a killer with no mobility on too big map against a swf with 4 prove thyselfs and 4 sprints or dead hards and 4 dss and 4 unbreakbles
I completely agree with you Scott. I had a killer who body blocked me in a corner for all 5 gens and the survivors had to leave because they couldn’t do anything to make him move.
I dunno if you've ever had those days where literally every killer is camping/hard tunnelling at 4/5 gens, but it happens loads of times, in red ranks even. It's not really infrequent. The difference is that there's 4 survivors, therefore more people being toxic in a game than just one.
@@lolrewynd Me as well, and I'll be honest, I don't get douche survivors THAT much, and typically even if I do, I get their teammates who either call them on it or purposely sandbag them for it, lmao.
@@SlxtSoda Ever since i hit red ranks back in 2016, i've been avoiding red ranks with a passion. My comment wasn't to state my thoughts, but to summarize his video.
Mentally I understand that when that Meg t-bags and points at me after vaulting that window making me whiff my attack she is doing me a favor by not graining distance but emotionally I feel that she is insulting me and taunting me by saying she doesn't _need_ that distance and can continue to run me with without it. That she thinks I'm _that_ bad at my role that she doesn't need an advantage. So the main problem I have with your argument Scott is that you're dismissing people's feelings, which we often have no real control over. I can't help that whenever I get insulted by someone that I _feel_ bad and _feel_ hurt by the insult. And that's what these actions are, insults. You don't _have_ to hit someone on hook, you don't _have_ to rapid crouch or rapid click a flashlight, you don't _have_ to slug someone until they bleed out, you don't _have_ to do these things that people say are "part of the game". You, the player, given the tools inside of the game, are performing a deliberate _unneeded_ action that you intend to mean as an insult to another human. The anonymity of the internet and the "us vs them" mindset lets people justify being jerks to each other easily. But why? Why do people feel the need to insult someone else? _That_ is what I just don't get. Why people feel the need to be jerks. When I'm playing Huntress or Deathslinger or Trickster crouching and moving and uncrouching and moving and crouching again at a loop are all "part of the game" and proper things to do. When I'm on Trapper and you drop a pallet in my face and rapid crouch that's you being a jerk and insulting me. That's not something that is "part of the game", that's part of the _community_ and the community is super toxic at times. When I get face camped on first hook after having not even run for a gen that's the Killer being a jerk not "part of the game". When I get tunneled after first hook at five gens with Ruin still up that not "part of the game" that's the Killer not caring about my fun and only caring about their "win", because they stand a better chance of "winning" in a 3v1 and don't care that by doing that they rob someone of any fun. You are right Scott in that as Killer we can choose to not deal with some of this stuff. At this point I just ignore rapid flashlight clickers until I _need_ to go for them as they haven't been hooked yet or I find them out in the open. I ignore rapid vaulters and avoid the exit gates if I fail to prevent them from being opened. But I can't just not chase anyone from fear they'll t-bag me at a vault and when someone _does_ t-bag at a pallet should I just walk away hoping to find someone else to chase? What if the jerk is injured? I can't really just ignore them at this point. So many people just dismiss this conversation as "get thicker skin" and that's not helping. Both sides are people who have feelings and when you insult someone you hurt feelings. I try very hard to not insult people, I want everyone to have a fun game. And I just don't understand why people have to be mean to each other. I _understand_ that people are mean, but each person _makes a choice_ to be mean and as someone who has _made the choice_ to be a nice person I don't get why others _make the choice_ to be mean instead. It's so much work being mean, all you have to do is choose to not be mean. You don't even have to go out of your way to be _nice_ to people, just don't be _mean_ to them.
the teabag at the exit gates and the offerings, you don't have to go through that, you can close the game, but you also lose time, the same way that survivors lose time when they do gens meanwhile someone's getting facecamped, i think that the toxicity is equal if you think of it like making the other side lose time and don't play the real game, great vid btw!
I'd love to challenge your view of "teabagging and hitting on hook and such isn't toxic". It might not be words, but it's ultimately still communication, and (most of the time) the intent is to piss the other person off. Even if it doesn't work, the intent is still there, for the same reason that someone not particularly minding a toxic Xbox Live message doesn't make the message less toxic.
Consider this: Which scenario are you likely to find a sore winner? Going 5-0 on gens for the twelfth match in a row, or escaping by the skin of your teeth with the whole team on death hook? Which one of these is more likely to make a survivor bored? Sure, in principle the killer has the potential to be a bigger griefer by just slugging everyone and letting them slowly bleed out for 4 minutes. But in practice, we're seeing a lot more toxic survivors, because they have the ability (thanks to all these myriad second chance perks and add-ons) play like complete morons and still win most of the time. Oh, and Scott; I've watched your streams on and off for quite some time. I've seen you get upset at players plenty of times. You're not a sociopath, utterly detached from human emotion and you certainly aren't a saint. Knock it off with the act.
great vid, appreciate it. I play both Survivor and killer but lean more to survivor. for me, it's more the person thinking it's OK to do these toxic things and try to ruin someone else's game that bothers me. Most are looking for escapism in games so it makes no sense to ruin that for other people. Great point on survivors actually helping you with toxic things and I already stopped going to exits.
I think it's literally impossible for you to understand how newer killers feel about facing toxic survivors. You've never experienced what it's like to play with a couple hundred hours against survivors with 2-8 thousand. I think this shows when you say that even newer killers have "a little control" in matches against more skilled survivors. It's been years since you had that many hours and at that time everyone was new. You also say that survivors being toxic by tbagging and clicking flashlights is helping the killer by making the chase easier but if they have 10x more hours than the killer it doesn't matter how much "help" they give. They're not helping, they're taunting and mocking to show that they're that much better.
This is actually it. I'm doing my best to grow and get better at the game bit by bit. But it's crushing for me when I'm just trying my best and have to deal with survivors that clearly are so much fucking better than I. Before MMR got implemented every match was a coinflip to see if I got survivors that were close to my skill level, or a full red rank team that knew exactly what to do and was fully willing to constantly mock an obviously new killer. MMR has fixed it a bit as it is actually giving me matches that are closer to my skill level more often. Though I still often get a survivor or two that is way more experienced than I that I just have to give up on chase cause there's nothing I can do with my skill level.
But rank 15-20 survivors die instantly to same rank killers. Killers only have to try at purple ranks and by red, survivors have grinded so hard they’re finally good…..and killers hate that.
@@pobster88j94 Nobody hates good people, if I play against better people than me I’ll get better, People hate the survs or killers that are better than you and mock you, oh you got pallet stunned, click click click, that’s not helping anyone
I feel like the only “Toxic” things survivors can do is bring keys, haddonfield / Game offerings, BNP, or body blocking teammates in a corner. But you can avoid all of this other than survivors ruining their teammates fun by body blocking them in a corner. Where all killers can do that is “Toxic” is face camping as bubba, slugging for 4 mins, or body blocking you in a corner until EGC kills you. Flashlight clicking, tea-bagging, Tunneling, and strategic slugging isn’t “Toxic” in my opinion
By Scott’s definition of toxic, I get more toxic from survivors than killer. It’s rare for me to get a toxic messages from killers. I get 100+ toxicity from survivors messages.
It's healthy for your mentality to play both sides in this game, seeing the struggles between survivor and killer just makes you less toxic in general. Like instead of laughing at a killers or survivors mistakes, you're more understanding of how they may be feeling on the receiving end. Don't get me wrong, if I do an outplay with a perk or something then I'll have a giggle like most people do, but if I whiff with my weapon or get outplayed by a survivor. Then I'm positive about it, I will learn from my mistakes and think over everything I did wrong. I got this mentality from you Scott and I thank you for it. Thank you for reading everyone, have a good one.
Have to keep in mind it's a 4v1 too. Yoy can have 3 very polite survivors and a polite killer, but that one toxic survivor is seen as toxic survivors. Even though that's still 3x as many polite, no one ever notices that and only focuses on the toxic person.
euh i don't think so, except on yt we can almost never see toxic survivor, be a good survivor doesn't mean be toxic dude, but how many killers camp and tunnel for no reason?
4:49 Well Scott I don't think you'll get any better interaction with the killer than being face to face in an eye staring contest while you're chilling on hook😍
Regarding a killer's ability to deny gameplay and why that's such a problem: There was a point in Overwatch where a team could choose 3 Ana's as a party of their 6 man team. Ana has a sleep dart that stuns a player for several seconds and has a cool down like 2.5x as long as the stun. All 3 Ana's could take turns stunning a single enemy player and soft lock them indefinitely. The stunned player simply couldn't play the game anymore, it was a huge problem. The team with the Ana's would still lose the match because the actual battle over the objective became a 3v5 with the remaining members of each team. Even though this was a guaranteed loss for the abusing team, it was still a major problem that the devs sought to fix right away. The DBD developer's argument that face camping is simply a bad strategy overlooks the obvious and is incredibly poor game design. Yea the killer might lose, but that means nothing if they were never intending to play the game as intended to begin with. A game should never give players the ability to prevent other players from playing the game using the games intended mechanics.
What about when one survivor and the killer team up during a match? For me, it doesn't get more toxic than that. You have the killer pummeling you while a member of your team make sure you don't get away.
I know this sucks for survivors but teaming up with a survivor as killer has been some of the most fun I've had in this game. It's like some shady deal, "Psst hey, kid. Rat out your friends and I'll let you live." I never encourage it though lol. It usually just happens when they stop running mid chase and beckon me to follow them, then start pointing in the direction of their teammates.
@@obituaryollie9104 it was in a narrow hall on Lery's Memorial map. I'm downed and the survivor was in front of me healing me back to standing and the killer was behind me waiting to smack me back down as soon as I was upright. They did this until the bleedout timer finally hit zero.
Agreed on all points pretty much. One thing I'd like to also point out is the idea of "holding the game hostage." Both sides are capable of holding the game hostage, but when and how differs. I'd say that Killers have an easier time prolonging the game and potentially doing it indefinitely by bodyblocking survivors in a corner. However, I have had an experience where survivors make the game impossible for the killer to play normally by playing super immersed. Case in point, I was on Midwich with a 3-gen and 2 survivors dead. I patrolled the gens for 10 minutes before I just decided to go looking around the map and circle back to the gens. 5 minutes after that point, no progress on gens at all. I literally had to go walk myself to the other side of the map and wait for them to finish the gen (another 5 minutes), then trying to patrol doors failed as they just hid for another 10 minutes. At that point, I had no good options--the moment I walked away from the door, they just left through the door I opened myself. I guess I'm ranting, but I really do think that there needs to be a time cap for the game at which point either a fast end game collapse starts and survivors need to suicide the door to leave, or crows need to be implemented more broadly (like, if they do not touch a gen, interact with a survivor, or get in a chase rather than just "not move" as that is exploited by just moving a little).
4 survivors for every 1 killer. 4x the likelihood of toxicity. That's it. Killer has the highest potential for toxicity because they can make it so that survivors can't even play the game by facecamping, slugging or bodyblocking them in a corner or one door room. Also Balanced Landing + Haddonfield offering isn't as strong anymore since they nerfed BL. But, simply burning a haddonfield offering at all just feels so soul crushing.
The most intoxicated Killer is Clown. So obviously because he shares his intoxication to others. He is the most toxic Killer in DBD and deserves a nerf. Logic
Not really to steal time, it is a strat. They're survivors. It means they're going to try to survive..? Judging by that, then when a killer camps his one kill to death, then that's him stealing time from survivors from an already won game?
@@aleksxyz23 It's like if a killer downed 4 people and just watched them bleed out to death when plenty of hooks were available except even worse because survivors can do it for an infinite amount of time. I would call both of these toxic. Not working on objectives and drawing out the game for like 40 minutes isn't a strat it's just boring for both sides and does nothing but to waste time.
@@Lors_101 I've never seen a game being drawn out for 40 minutes, and I watch streamers and youtubers. It might've been a thing before ECC collapse was a thing, but I'm hoping we're having a discussion about the state of the game in modern times. As for the bleed out strat being "slightly better" than survivors trying to survive, that has to be a troll. One is the killer who at that point he full control, choosing not to end the round. The other is 2 survivors with little control in the game. You can still do totems, search chests, heal, get into another chase, or possibly repair a gen and actually get out - yes I've seen these "already won game" scenarios where they actually got out through the door. So I don't understand how it can even be comparable to bleeding people out intentionally..
@@aleksxyz23 i get what you said and I agree if a survivor is waiting for the other to die and get the hatch, but there are survivor friends that hide together really meaning to steal the killer time, I know this because two friends of mine did this once, it also happened to me as killer twice, it's just pretty boring
From my pov you face way more toxicity as killer. Let's just say that 1 out of 8 people is a toxic shithead which tries his best to ruin his opponents day, let it be via ingame stuff but also post game chat insults. If you play killer, you'll face 4 survivors per game. So every other game there will be one dude trying to make your day worse. If you play survivor whatsoever you'll have 7 nice killers and only in game 8 you'll encounter a toxic shitface. And even then there is a good chance you won't encounter the toxic verbal abuse by said killer, because you might die before the game is over and have no interaction with said killer - because he's still locked to the game. As killer however you'll make it to EVERY post-game chat lobby and either deal with the cocky winners or sore losers.
@@Demonsouls1993 Scott Jund literally talked about all the ways killers can be more toxic, and he didn't even include heavy slugging, heavy tunneling, shaking your head, using noed, etc
I sorta feel the need to weigh in on this myself. I agree with many of your points - yes, killers absolutely have the opportunity to be more toxic, and survivors can only annoy you. However, personally the survivors' attempts to annoy me really get under my skin easily - I already know I'm not all that good at multiplayer video games, so having the survivors taunt me for making bad plays, or wait until the last moment to escape from the exit gates as I frantically run at them to try to get a single kill, or bring in a key and jump down the hatch as soon as I'm in their line of sight... it's really demoralizing. And then there's the issue of tunneling, camping, and slugging. Because I personally think that going for someone who's going to die sooner is a better strategy than going for someone who's never been hooked and is fully healthy. I'd rather get someone out of the way so I have fewer things to worry about, and I don't think of that as toxic. And I would also say slugging is a valid strategy, because there are also ways to counter that as well. I don't think of either of those as being toxic, but... camping definitely is. If you're directly on top of the survivor, that is. Staying somewhat close to the hook to try to catch people going for a save isn't camping if you're not standing directly in front of the hook, in my opinion. I know a lot of people have differing opinions, but I just wanted to give my own. A lot of the time I get accused of being toxic when I'm just playing the game, and when the survivors were taunting me the whole time. It's infuriating. ...So yeah, my point is, a lot of the time I get accused of being toxic when I'm not trying to be, and also that I get completely demoralized by the survivors constantly taunting me for my lacking skills. Because I know I'm not a good player, and having that rubbed in my face just hurts.
I feel like DBD players in general exacerbate toxicity in general. Like in a game like Overwatch, if a streamer outplayed someone or just made a really cool play and said something like "Oh get shit on" you'd just be like haha wow that was good. If a DBD streamer did that and then the survivor/killer playing against them saw it they'd say "Wow what a shitty toxic killer acting like a bitch because I made a mistake etc etc etc". Like people seem to actively find reasons to get angry in this game
One time I had Rancor on Hawkins and trapped the obsession in the upstairs chest room doorway at the start of the game. I sat there and waited for all the gens to be finished just to kill the trapped survivors. Pretty toxic.
One of the most annoying things is when you're doing well, and the survivors have 1 or 2 die early, then the last few survivors just hide in the corners whenever they hear a heartbeat. Then you have to patrol gens forever until they decide to get caught.
I would love to see a discussion about the different definitions of "tunneling" and "camping" that people have in the community. There's such a divide on what these terms mean and it would be cool to see your thoughts on the debate
If you hook someone, pretend to leave but go right back as they’re unhooked. Then chase the unhooked person who is injured and ignore the unhooker, and do this over and over, you are tunneling. If you sit at hook, nodding at the hooked survivor or revving your chainsaw…..you are camping with intention of tunneling.
I've only had it happen once in almost 200 hours of playing- but two survivors can completely hold the game hostage by hiding in lockers and changing to a new locker when the killer isn't around. The only option at that point is to check literally every single locker in the map - and hope that they don't manage to hide in a locker that you've already checked. As I mentioned - happened only once to me on Hawkins. And I'm not even sure that they were coordinating (I think they each just didn't want to lose).
