Are Pistol Sights Actually Useful For Self-Defense? 

Thanks for sharing your experience... that tracks with what I've heard from a lot of other trained shooters who have been involved in shootings.

Oh yeah, caveman eotech but with handgun.

Agree with a lot of points. Mine stared out at about 12-15 yard distance, and my first shot wasn’t so much “point” shooting, as it was instinctive and a reaction to having been shot at. Pretty sure that one hit the ground, short of where it needed to be, as I wanted to see all of the bad guy and my gun was aimed too low. After the past training instructor voices screaming inside my head, I started repeating “front sight, front sight” and for my 2-4 shots, I picked up the sights. The threat was moving laterally at first, as related to me, before turning to run, presumably after being hit, and opening up to about 60 yards, which is where I fired my 4th and last shot. I wasn’t standing still either, and was shuffling backwards in a kind of a J-hook to get behind cover. My deal was outside of the norm for handgun distances, with just street lights for illumination, and there was a lot of movement in just a few seconds. Had I not picked up the sights, the shots after the first one might have been all misses, and the bad guy might not have been dissuaded from continuing his actions, which also means his accuracy may have improved as well, with negative consequences for me. I’m no expert in any of this, but from my experience and several others, I draw a personal conclusion that practice should include the more common distances, but also training with sights and maybe not from perfect positions, because there’s a chance that whatever is trying to do you harm, won’t cooperate and stand like a paper silhouette at a designated distance.

Yep. Called point or reflex shooting where you basically point the front sight at bad guy. Usually from only a few feet.

I don't remember seeing the sites! 2 good hits at 10 feet. Home invader just out of jail after doing 2 years of a 10 year sentence for almost beating a woman death!

*Grabs your gun* comrade, what do you think youre doing.

Indeed thanks Chris great work sir!

Yeah me too. It also means that our gun could quite easily become his gun.

This is why you always carry a defensive knife along with your handgun. No distance is too close for a blade.

Further apart than "an arms length" BEGINS pistol range! Closer than that, it is "Our gun". Attacker defines "when and where". A defender is always .2 to .8 seconds behind the attacker! "Be polite, But have a plan to kill everyone you meet".

@@mikewallace8087 useful different skill to useful different skill. The comparison isn't LITERAL one to one dude, it's the concept of different skills that take practice, and you need to practice all of them to be well rounded. Don't be obtuse.

@@mikewallace8087 hi, I'm Mike Wallace and I can't understand metaphors.

@@mikewallace8087 c'mon,you've never seen "Wanted" where they were curving the bullets? those are "hooks"....Seriously,he's saying that if you only practice one skill,then you are severely limiting yourself......The absolute best response you could give right now would be..."Guy's,it was a JOKE"

@@mikewallace8087 It's an analogy you buffoon.

chris is right when he says if you practice it should mostly be sighted practice. i agree because if you get good at sighted fire, to an instinctual level where it's automatic, your body will learn that index to the highest level of precision. so when you enter a situation that you can't see or use your sights, your body will still have an extremely precise index towards what your attention is focused on. this enables you to focus your entire being on the threat, following it with your eyes and moving your body accordingly, while not thinking at all about your technique, and at a master's level your precision will be such that your index automatically aligns your point of aim with where your eyes are even if you aren't using your sights. i think when people debate "sighted fire vs point shooting" they overlook this entire point, and that ultimately the two things are more or less the same. the only real difference is that at a low level of competence it FEELS like "sighted fire" because you're still learning that index, and at a high level of competence it simply becomes being able to shoot what you're looking at without thinking about the technique of it all. it all becomes automatic and when it's automatic it's INSTINCTIVE. on the range you're focusing on your sights, in a fight your eyes are locked to what's trying to kill you, you train technique so that your body automatically falls into lockstep so that your mind and eyes can focus on the thing trying to kill you with utmost confidence that your body will be pointing your gun at exactly the point your eyes are locked on.

Is steel commonly allowed or commonly banned between ranges?

Whenever I see footage of a range that isn't e.g. a company's closed off internal testing range I'm always baffled by how seemingly every single one of them has tons of bullet holes in places that absolutely should not have them unless you wanted to hit exactly those spots. You could set up a range in a coal mine and they'd shoot a plane out of the sky

As someone who goes to an indoor range weekly and sees the holes and the banged up target hangers I can confirm.

I can imagine. I’ve seen holes and lead splashes on steel supports at the ranges I’ve used.

@@fenderjazzface999 😂😂😂😂

yeah, in some dangerous situation and suddenly you have to use your reflex, there is basically no time for aimming and it will be easier, faster to aim if you are used to it am I right?

Dry fire works too!

@Xph Aku makes sense, thanks

True. Focus practice on developing muscle memory that puts aligned sights on target upon full extension. Dry fire is all that is needed to develop this ability.

@what's up Please. Stir shit somewhere else.

Glad you like them!

@@LuckyGunner Yes, you seem adamant about covering all the contingencies in an infinite universe.

@@robertm4777 😊😊

Oui oui, tres bien !!!

It's good that you mentioned shooting one handed. I would add that it's a good idea to practice shooting only strong hand and only weak hand in case one of your arms or hands is wounded, you can still defend. I personally know of two soldiers, one got nicked by a bullet on the upper arm and the other was nicked by a bullet on the wrist. Both wounds only required a band-aid, but in each case, the soldier lost total use of that arm for a couple of hours. Their arms simply went dead like when your legs go to sleep and fall on your face. A band-aid and a couple of hours later, everything was working again. No Purple Heart, just a Band-aid.

All of your observations are excellent-merci, monsieur!

Well said!

What an excellent comment. Whenever I had a student who began spouting made up statistics about how "all defensive shootings are short range", usually in an effort to justify a lack of training or practice, or carrying a tiny gun that was only useful at short range, I'd ask them to go to a Walmart and pace off a retail store aisle. I'd then tell them that if they had not learned to shoot well at 25 yards, or insisted on carrying a tiny gun that could not be shot well at that distance, their best option in an active shooter event was to run and hide like everyone else, and hope to get off a close range shot when the shooter came to execute them. I then told them to pray that the shooter was as unskilled and poorly armed as they were. This normally made the point rather clearly. When I first started in law enforcement in the late 70's, 40% of our qualification course was shot at 50 yards and included weak hand shooting at that range. Even today I do some practice at that range, not because I think I'm going to get into a 50 yard fight, but rather to make sure I can handle a 25 yard confrontation. I also make it a point to carry a sidearm that can be shot well at that range. It really isn't that difficult.

Being willing to learn is a youth all its own. Too many middle-age people refuse to learn anything new. 👍

"You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight." Pat Mac

First time I read that was in Bill Jordan's book, "No second place winner."

Very true, but it is important for people to recognize when they are overconfirming their sight picture as well.

Accuracy without enough speed is useless.

@@musicman1eanda At close range, I use "point shooting" or "instinctive sighting". At longer range the sights are used. "Close range" and "long range" are subjective and vary from shooter to shooter. For me, I can point and hit a 6inch diameter steel circle out to 7yards. You just have to practice enough to know your abilities.

100%

Absolutely correct

Not really.

exactly. the whole point of training is to get your muscle memory to a point that it indexes your body structure to be able to point a gun, reliably and stably, at whatever your eyes are locked on to. this enables extreme speed and precision, and it's the same thing pro gamers in first person shooters do. you train grip, footing, and sighted fire, so that the muscle memory becomes so dialed in that once you reach mastery, you can now automatically index your body to where ever your eyes are focused with extreme speed and precision. your sights will be aligned automatically because of muscle memory, you won't need to visually confirm sight picture, because there is no time to do so, and no need because you KNOW your body is indexing the gun exactly to the point that your eyes are focused, so you can focus entirely on the threat and not making sure your sight picture is perfect. you train sight picture so that when you call on your muscle memory, the muscle memory you have learned is one that ALWAYS has the sights perfectly aligned, and at that level you don't need to confirm it by looking down them, you just assume your drilled shooting posture and focus your entire being on the threat and rounds will go where your eyes are centered.

Not sorry :)

Anti gun people

Gatcha!

@@propdoctor21564 unlikely. You'd have to have been on a gun history and liked it to even get a recommendation.

that's actually true, I have friends who's wife does just that. she says she just likes to try and balance the numbers, content of the video doesn't matter.

@@UncleVoodoo Surprised to see you here Uncle! Looked at a bunch of your Himalayan videos when I was considering buying one.

You already said what I want to comment. a. Side stomach, 1 hand. Distance : real close b. Cowboy style. Distance : +- 1 m - 3 m. c. Eye sight, 2 hands. Distance : further. Disadvantage. a. back protruding elbow. Can't do it when back against wall b. miss. Required practice & talent, for longer range c. takes time. Need to Start draw . . early, required experience & advance situational awareness.

That is why the dot life is the future, and the future is now haha.

@@musicman1eanda Nothing wrong with a dot, if you have the time and physical space to use them. It certainly makes you a much better shot at distances over five yards.

Exactly!!!!! We practiced so close we could reach out with our left hand and touch the side of the target before we shot. Super close!!! Because that’s how close most officers are to the bad guy in the “fatal funnel” when at the window of the offenders car. Nowhere to go and he has the drop on you.

No doubt that's a little bit funny and Aaron is a good shot. At the same time, even a handgun that nominally has no sights doesn't completely lack the ability to mechanically Amite, even if you are just lining up different colored points on the slide. It's not going to work quite as well as an actual set of sight but you are still putting in more mechanical effort than "point shooting" so to speak. If anything, I'm not a neurologist so take this with a grain of salt, perhaps that experiment proves that while aming your gun intentionally is important, a set of sights is only part of that - a big part of it, but not the only way. (e.g. Colonial era muskets didn't have conventional sights but, despite Hollywood convention, people did aim them to a degree)

I agree with you, I shoot my bow at 58 ( years old, not meters), just like I always shoot a slingshot since my childhood. It works pretty well for me. Cheers!

@@herberar If it works then that's all that matters isn't it, thanks for your comment Bernardo.

I trust Ernie, I need another class with him.

I genuinely dream of a society where open rifle carry is normal again. It'll never be as convenient as a handgun, but that isn't the point.

besides, if everyone open carried rifles, you'd instantly have way more friends because everyone would talk to each other about their set-ups

@@thefamilybrit so true lol.

I bet you guys are great at parties. 🙄

I always walk around with nails and a hammer, just in case I come across some wild boards I need to build into a house.

Linux and guns are quite cool

BUT one needs absolute TRIGGER only to the rear control.

Have you trained with it? Like the laser?

Exactly. "How far can one justify self defence?" Is answered by asking "How far can I be attacked?" 100 yards against a knife? Gonna say no. 100 yards with a firearm? If he's in range, so am I.

@@thesmallestminorityisthein4045 yes, just like he said, I'd you are taking incoming fire from 20 30 yards out then you are well within your rights to engage (accurately and safely) that's the caveat, you have to make sure your shots are safely made.

@@danielschmidt7153 Yeah. I have this feeling not enough people are considering the shots beeing safe in regards to the surroundings of the target in an emergency, when generally discussing this. In a large amount of the area where people live it gets a bit complicated to shoot in any direction (that's because more people are where more people are. Put a bit jokingly.) I'm sure plenty are thinking of that. But you don't need many not to be for it to be less then great. Anyways. That wasn't really the point of this conversation. Pardon me.

@@Sir.Craze- one of the biggest things I taught for law enforcement handgun training was always always always sweep your surroundings, just because bad guy is shooting you from 20 yards away doesn't mean you'll be able to, people and objects always play a role in a gunfight, especially in enclosed areas.

Depends on your state. In MD you have a “Duty to Retreat”

🤣 🤣 🤣

Except you don’t actually see the dot of the laser as quick as you think which a timer would prove. Looking over the top of the slide is still quickest in tight. The lasers are crap in bright light against dark clothing. Slows you way down for no reason as you don’t even need them. They are an idea that sounds better than it is in practice under realistic conditions. A red dot sight is even quicker than a laser.

@@graywind4326 Since a red dot doesn't work well with my pocket carried P365 (which is packing 14+1 with a MagGuts +2 extender kit)--although I've got RMR's on each of my recently acquired Masada, Canik TP9SFX and Springfield Armory XDM Elite (my many other older pistols aren't optics ready), together with a Olight Baldr Mini light/laser combo--I find the laser on my P365 absolutely perfect for me at night at almost any self defense distance, and during the day at distances of up to at least 10 yards. As I draw the P365 from my pocket holster, immediately upon leveling the weapon, that dot is only an inch or two off from where I need it to be, at a distance of 50 feet (I practice this often), without even thinking about it, and in a fraction of a second it's dead on target (pun intended). Like so many things in life, different people have different experiences, different training, different skill levels, and different likes and dislikes. That you hate lasers or find them not useful for your needs is perfectly fine with me. On the other hand, I have a laser on EVERY pistol in my rather extensive arsenal, and two (red and green bore height, but on opposite sides of the barrel), on every long gun I own (and I own a whole bunch) as well--except two. One is a 22lr from the '60s (which has nothing to mount anything on), and my Browning A-5 12 ga. semi-auto, which because of a different setup has both lasers on the same side, and not barrel height, since it too was made without rails or mounting capability and now sports a 'saddle' for these. So, because of extensive use and experience over many years with lasers, I have a totally different experience and perspective from you. Your disfavoring of lasers reminds me of way back when red dots first came out, and all of the "experts" were looking down their noses at anyone lame enough to suggest that a red dot was an important addition to their weapon. They all demanded that everyone master "the irons', and anyone who thought otherwise wasn't worthy of carrying a firearm. I often laugh to myself when I now see so many (practically all, in fact) of these "experts" who are now sporting (if not actually extolling) red dots (and occasionally a laser). The only constant in life is change. Perhaps one day, so will your opinion of lasers. Not that I actually give a rat's patoot.

@@richardefriend You must have given "a rat's patoot" because you wrote a book in reply. :_)

@@gb93669 I was referring simply to not caring about whether or not you changed how you thought about lasers. I am, however, quite enthusiastic about my own use of lasers, and their hopeful adoption by large segments of the firearms community (particularly the non-luddite types among that community). Reminds me of a famous quote: "“People who appear to be resisting change may simply be the victim of bad habits. Habit, like gravity, never takes a day off.”".

6:25-7:20

Of course I agree that way too much attention is given to stance. This part of shooting has changed a number of times since the 1920s. I think a person should practice one handed with both hands and be able to shoot from any position. I like the old training videos of guys with one hand in their pocket, shooting one handed.

yep! Not the place I was expecting to see that reference, lulz

@@WillowGardener would pay money to watch Chris Baker sing karaoke

Here Here 👍

Unless you have to make a precise hit into the T-Box.

I learned how to drive on a Colomn shift, but those days are long gone also. "One Focal Plane is better then Three " and not too many people out there are using AR Iron Sights, there's a Reason to that. Threat Focus and your good to go.

@@Sanctified_EDC_Gear I thought we was talking about pistols but regardless everybody should know how to train and shoot with iron sights never know when your optics could bite the dust...just sayin.

@@raynichol2477 agree with you, but my RMR's won't bite the Dust, and I was first Trained along time ago on Irons I'm good to go 👍 but I do get your point

@@raynichol2477 You should how to use irons, but dots are incredibly reliable nowadays. Optics like the RMR have very low failure rates.

@@musicman1eanda i started shooting when I was 11 or 12 and I'm 61 now so I've got a decent collection of firearms and optics but still wouldn't hesitate to grab one without anything on it.