Are Southampton the next Moneyball team?

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The Athletic’s Southampton writer, Dan Sheldon, joins Joe Devine and Alex Stewart to talk about the south coast side’s new owners.
With former Brentford co-director of football, Rasmus Ankersen, a part of Sport Republic Limited, Southampton’s new owners, will we see a Brentford-like approach to recruitment and day-to-day running of the club?
00:00 Intro
00:43 Recruitment & Development
01:50 The 15/16 Team
03:28 Southampton's Transfer Spending vs League Position
05:39 The New Owners
07:26 Rasmus Ankersen
08:27 Brentford's Transfer Spending vs League Position
10:36 What is Moneyball?
11:53 Are Southampton the Next Moneyball Team?
13:36 Where will Southampton be in 5 years?
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About Tifo Football:
Tifo loves football. We create In-depth tactical, historical and geopolitical breakdowns of the beautiful game.
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Music sourced from epidemicsound.com
Additional footage sourced from freestockfootagearchive.com
#Southampton #Saints #MoneyBall

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2 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 165

@logancosta3110 2 года назад

I enjoy videos centred around clubs that aren't in the 'big 6' (granted im a Southampton fan but this sort of thing is always great because it's different)

@CharlesEros1 2 года назад

Chelsea fan here and couldn't agree more mate! I Love the videos that do an in depth analysis of teams outside the big six or even the prem.

@ryanmcclain7453 2 года назад

Dude, everyone enjoys videos about teams out of the top 6. It's where all the interesting management theories are. 👍

@cstanley1990 2 года назад

Another Southampton fan here. It's great to get some analysis about teams like us. I think the more medium sized teams that are like us may be the most interesting and innovative in the league as we have to find creative ways to compete with the big boys. Something we have done very well in recent weeks! I'm actually very excited for the next 5 years. The new owners won't change much but it seems they have brought back our identity and a bit of stability that we were losing in the last 2 or 3 seasons. Onwards and upwards. COYR

@Ash14760 2 года назад

And I enjoy videos that is just 10 mins of somebody saying Leeds is great ( granted I'm a Leeds fan)

@CrackaPackify 2 года назад

@@CharlesEros1 as a Southampton resident might I say you should be rewarded for your patience

@mundea 2 года назад

For Alex Stewart’s sake, hopefully they are. Allows for them to invest In Ibrahim Sangaré

@davidzorakwilliams 2 года назад

Didn't saints have an agreement in place but the work permit application failed

@itchyshiels1999 2 года назад

@@davidzorakwilliams yeah, because Toulouse had been relegated he didn't qualify for a permit

@D4NJ4CKS 2 года назад

That 15/16 was amazing, and that team was just wonderful to watch.

@joegallagher9238 2 года назад

If sangare isn’t in their midfield in the next two years then they have failed at being ‘sensible’

@itchyshiels1999 2 года назад

Already tried to sign him in the summer of 2020, work permit application didn't go through

@DL-lv2rq 2 года назад

@@itchyshiels1999 what he said! We wanted him but permit scuppered the move

@joegallagher9238 2 года назад

@@itchyshiels1999 fair enough

@sdstryker2012 2 года назад

I am on Alex's side. You should never mix your axes.

@MuskVideo 2 года назад

Yeah, that was absolute nonsense! Just set up a 92 point axis.

@Jacobhussain99 2 года назад

Can't wait to see Hulham back in the prem next year

@bruhstoise 2 года назад

All jokes aside Fulham look amazing, that Fabio carvalho kid is something special

@richardkovanda7578 2 года назад

that was a good one haha

@britrock73 2 года назад

Solid explanations lovely graphics, aside from the axis violation - I’m with Alex on this one. One minor correction; Southampton’s highest finish in the Premier league so far is 6th, however our highest finish was second in 1983/1984. If you refer to title wins by the likes of Liverpool and Utd et al using previous data, do the rest of us no-title-hopers (NTH) the courtesy of including our meek attempts to unseat them. Looking forward to more of these about other NTHs. Cheers.

@CharlesEros1 2 года назад

Love that point! Maybe the odd mention to pre Premier League stats is worthy, especially when it's a great one like that! Second, so close! Shame they didn't finish first it might of had a mention then 🤔

@britrock73 2 года назад

@@CharlesEros1 Then why mention our highest finish was 6th? Still, looks like you'll be using a similar past reference for your fall from grace shortly, but at least you'll have the comfort of the couple of decades of notoriety and success to crow about. Enjoy the championship in a few seasons...

@Victorakan_ Год назад

@@britrock73 Savage bro lol

@MuskVideo 2 года назад

At last, not big six stuff! Excited about this watch.

@sld1776 2 года назад

That first group was so good Koeman didn't ruin them.

@Prederick 2 года назад

Obligatory "they should sign Ibrahim Sangaré" comment.

@sfcswh 2 года назад

Saints had an agreement in place to sign him in October 2020, work permit failed and so we signed Ibrahima Diallo.

@graemequinnonfilm 2 года назад

Watching someone outside JJ, Alex and Seb try to cope with Joe's hosting style is a genuine complete joy. Get this man on MoTD.

@kithusimwaniki 2 года назад

Loved the behing the scenes scoop. Someone is instinctively clever. I will also keep in mind the words, "this is not the bbc," every time I watch Joe. I seem to enjoy Alex alot more than I used to. Thanks and it's always great fun to be part of you

@blondeboi22 2 года назад

I like when Alex smiles

@k1ngeddward199 2 года назад

These are the most enjoyable videos for me. To be honest though most of the videos are great

@JuanCanuck 2 года назад

3:24 great edit

@frankunodostres473 2 года назад

southampton is a very cool team and I rate hasenhüttl very highly. hopefully they avoid relegation and keep building a special team

@samn90834 2 года назад

They’re certainly going to avoid relegation, the question this year should be can they beat the likes of Leicester and Villa for top 10

@frankunodostres473 2 года назад

@@samn90834 leicester is a top6 contender so I doubt they'll finish above them. top 10 should be possible

@samn90834 2 года назад

@@frankunodostres473 this season Leicester are 12th and have statistically the worst defense in the league (highest xGa per game) they’re not a top 6 contender this on current form

@frankunodostres473 2 года назад

@@samn90834 they are underperforming this season just like sheffield overperformed 2 years ago. it happens. their squad is still too good imo. they should normally be fighting for top6 is what I'm saying

@jaredmcgivern8187 2 года назад

Avoid relegation… 😂

@mattywright8929 2 года назад

Fuming with those mixed axes

@roelvaag 2 года назад

Would be interesting to see a video on Bodø Glimt and how they run their football club. Impressive results over Roma and Celtic. Keeps moving the club forward even after losing their best players every season.

@jtjr26 2 года назад

I think teams that apply a heavy Moneyball approach can occasionally get it all working at the right time and have a really good season and make it into Europe but probably not have an expectation like Manchester United or Chelsea to be there every year.

@KindredBrujah 2 года назад

I think what people tend to forget about 'the Newcastle situation', and I suspect that Mike Ashley was quite canny about this actually, is that the only real reason Newcastle can spend that kind of money right now is because the Financial Fair Play rules gave them around £200 Million extra due to Ashley's underspending over the period leading up to the takeover. This gives Newcastle the finances to spend now and have the revenue streams being such a wealthy club will inevitably uncork begin to flow in time to increase their available pot in adherence to FFP as the initial reservoir dries up.

@jockmackay9582 2 года назад

Pipe down nob jockey

@KindredBrujah 2 года назад

@@jockmackay9582 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@aussieseanc 2 года назад

That’s if they don’t get relegated first…

@KindredBrujah 2 года назад

@@aussieseanc The parachute payment would see them do fine until their inevitable return to the top flight if that happened. Or are you suggesting, despite having done so twice in the recent past _without_ being the wealthiest club in the world, that they would be unable to escape the Championship once in there?

@KindredBrujah 2 года назад

@@davidmontgomery1442 Yes, I agree. But the very large pool of FFP spending they can now do means that doesn't need to be prioritised - it can come naturally as the club becomes more successful, which it can do because it can afford to spend.

@billder2655 2 года назад

this video was great, dan sheldon explains things really well (i know he is a great journalist but speaking is a slightly different skill!)

@Kimera794 2 года назад

The graphs representing league position to net transfer spend probably should've included a variance/standard deviation regarding the latter which should take into account the number of players in and out, as an influx of players in either direction certainly can impact the team performance, and thus the league position. The idea that Southampton seem to get results for their level of investment starting only from the second year suggests the number of players in and out seem to have a considerable impact on the results. That's probably one point Southampton owners may want to look to work on: "try to get results during the current season of their investment".

@anthonyjudeaggabao2302 2 года назад

“Nothing ever changes”

@joelroman7732 2 года назад

I never knew Brad Pitt and Jonah hill were so knowledgeable on football

@WGK90 2 года назад

They were in the film Moneyball... based on the book they were talking about, or is this a really not that funny joke that's gone over my head?

@joelroman7732 2 года назад

@@WGK90 went over your head, tho compared to size of the tiny dog next to you I imagine you must face that problem a lot hey?

@reggiebanks7627 2 года назад

Great video

@moistpeanut5986 2 года назад

the thing is that data is more accurate in a sport like baseball. Baseball is particular in that you can use data and analytics in a real world scenario, and the amount of data is way larger since they play 5-6 days of the week.

@angryman132 2 года назад

True and the actions in the game are limited compared to football and there is more specific data points to track

@Iron-Bridge 2 года назад

Good point. Data and analytics make sense once relevance has been established.

@dylanhough1653 2 года назад

You guys needed to use a least squares estimates method to find the parameter estimators for the joint distribution of transfer net spend and league finish

@ghriscreen 2 года назад

Being a Pompey fan and subscribing to the athletic becomes harder each day...

@TariqAmazin 2 года назад

THANKS FOR INSPIRING MY NEW FM22 SAVE!

@braedenmoore1722 2 года назад

Love you joe!

@muhammedgamal5871 Год назад

Good one and realistic

@richardkovanda7578 2 года назад

Well done lads, always wanted to see such Saints research, cheers

@georgeglass98 2 года назад

Great video as always, but if you want to do an analysis on "The Next Moneyball Club" you should look at what Blackpool FC are doing in the Championship, I think they are a much stronger correlation to what Brentford did/are doing.

@TheDandelionMind 2 года назад

I agree with you on the axis... The 0 should be on the same line!

@colouredIncognito 2 года назад

Making sustained profit from transfers ≠ moneyball

@chris-ph6cd 2 года назад

whenever alex smiles we get 2 more months of summer

@nipplehead 2 года назад

Permanent nuclear winter for us then

@jonmatthews5134 2 года назад

It's interesting that Brentford get praised for buying players, developing them and selling them, yet Southampton get criticised for it.

@johnrobert3188 2 года назад

Well when saints were new to the pl they were praised for this, but once we became a mainstay it became a common criticism

@JAG214 2 года назад

Southampton was not always criticized for developing players then selling them but with that being said your comment may just show that you may have not been watching the EPL for a long time

@kinggang2221 2 года назад

It's impressive when you can do it while simultaneously improving but Southampton have gotten worse while Brentford got into the epl

@redheadkid2554 2 года назад

Your videos are incredible. Very informative and amazing production value. Only thing missing is some sort of chill background music.

@gauravmufc1 2 года назад

Premier league has been getting interesting since last 8-10 years apart from pep's dominance many teams have turned tables the likes of leciester winning league, leeds coming back to the league big teams such as everton finding it hard to stay in top half even after huge spends teams such as west ham and wolves slowly becoming consistent and improving.Manchester United and Arsenal struggling to win any trophies Chelsea having turnarounds midway through the season. English teams finding a stronghold in european championships this league is currently at its prime.

@pbh81 2 года назад

Most of the clubs have some real quality about them now. Just wish the would push on and try more to win some cups. Never get the impression the big clubs or fans care about winning the fa/league Cup

@JAG214 2 года назад

So I take it you only been watching the EPL for the pass 8 to 10 years because if you knew anything you would know that most of the big clubs we know today were not always big clubs like Man City as example also in the last 8 to 10 years not much has change the big clubs are still the big clubs which they only gotten bigger since then and will always be big clubs for many reasons and once in a blue moon you may get a club like Leicester winning trophies or when Wigan won the FA Cup in 2013 when they beat Man City which Wigan went down that season All the big clubs are in big cities

@JAG214 2 года назад

@@pbh81 Why should the big clubs care about the FA or League Cup when they are bigger trophies to worry about like winning the league and Champion Leauge FA and League Cup only matters to mid to lower league Clubs because they know that the odd of winning the League or getting to the Champion League is slim to none and the odds of a mid to lower league Clubs are greater even when the odds of winning for the mid to lower league Clubs are slim Since the beginning of the EPL only 4 non big Clubs have won the FA Cup

@gauravmufc1 2 года назад

@@JAG214 yes but the dominance of arsenal and united has gone down while liverpool have found their rhythm man city have risen from oil money and newcastle might reach its old glory days plus epl has never had such dominance in europe like it has had lately.

@JAG214 2 года назад

@@gauravmufc1 The EPL have had dominance in Europe in the pass which you need to do your homework on and have you not seen the EPL table because if you have you would not be saying the stuff you are saying because if you just looked at the table it still mostly the big six with exception to West Ham which Arsenal can catch up to

@inuuteqstotts9639 2 года назад

Hahaahahah. Best fing end ever. Well done Tifo IRL. Jesus...that was good.

@KiNASuki 2 года назад

8:37 Rare footage!

@alexcoyg3281 2 года назад

That win vs Spurs was incredible

@nicherjberger9008 2 года назад

Cool POV to see Alex transition from Joe’s hemisphere to his freedom that is the tactics board

@kithusimwaniki 2 года назад

I don't like Joe that much. Sometimes Alex doesn't either. Doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing?

@blindfolds1aside 2 года назад

All three with great names, I would argue

@mohussain1615 2 года назад

I think Wolves under Fosun Corporation have flourished with great recruitment. Player's like Ruben Neves, Diogo Jota, Pedro Neto, Adama Traore, Jonny, Raul Jimenez and more recently Jose Sa, Rayan Aït-Nouri and Max Kilman have all shone for the club in recent years. Wolves are very shrewd in the transfer market. Fosun have an abundance of riches but won't be held to ransom. They do a lot of due diligence before parting with any money. Loan to buy deals are very common place. They go about their business in the right manner.

@samig9032 2 года назад

Wolves "recruitment" is just consistently buying Mendes clients, and sometimes getting a sweetheart deal for it. Neves, Moutinho, Jota, Neto, Sa, Rui Patricio, Podence, Trincao, Semedo. Even when they signed one he doesn't represent - Fabio Silva - Mendes got $6m of the transfer fee.

@andrew7taylor 2 года назад

Fosun are exactly being held to ransom, by Mendes that is. Wolverhampton is basically a shop window advertising his clients in a bigger shop than Liga Sagres.

@ahnafdrubo9727 2 года назад

@@samig9032 wtf how is that legal

@samig9032 2 года назад

@@ahnafdrubo9727 The FA investigated them a few years ago, after they bought Ruben Neves (one of the best young midfield talents in the world at the time) off Porto for only 15m euro while they were still in the 2nd division.

@ahnafdrubo9727 2 года назад

@@samig9032 yeah but paying just a dude who isn't even a players agent shouldn't be legal

@RenewedRS 2 года назад

Am I missing something? Southampton's owner is only worth like a billion or so? Aston Villa seem far more likely to be able to financially compete. edit: Yeah I was missing something lol I had no idea what Moneyball meant.

@colouredIncognito 2 года назад

Tbf they only threw it in here because of the popularity of the term. Considering they're hardly anything close to moneyball

@Jack-lc2ls 2 года назад

they probably threw it in their because Co founder of sport Republic follows the philosophy...

@loganwalser721 2 года назад

Brentford’s basically the middle man of the transfer market

@vongrimm1421 2 года назад

I think the new owners with push Southampton to an upper mid table side. Meaning that occasionally if they have a good season they will flirt with Europe, but will most likely be around 8th/9th consistently. And honestly, I'm happy with that - as long as we keep the model of finding and developing young talent. If saints get the reputation for being THE premier league team that gives youth a chance, alongside the rule change of loans, we could see and influx of really talented youngsters from the "big 6".

@redmed10 2 года назад

Moneyball did not seem to work for Liverpool. Is moneyball only really useful at lower levels.

@userjim83 2 года назад

Isn’t this video about 6 years too late 🤷🏻‍♂️

@TeamOfThe80s 2 года назад

Weren’t they the original moneyball team?

@scotttaylor5476 2 года назад

Bigger clubs aren't necessarily "better" clubs

@himeisfred 2 года назад

Almost every team in PL is Moneyball style now in their own way (bar Man Utd lol) because they have to be. PL level is so high with so much money

@markthomas806 2 года назад

you know for a fact these are members of the prawn sandwich gang but i can’t help but listen to tifo football

@tottenhamteacher 2 года назад

Wow… when I started bantering online with EPL (the FA as a whole) people would scoff when I brought up Moneyball.

@owenwindley3033 Год назад

I would pay an obscene amount of money for even conference league

@reuben4721 2 года назад

doesnt really matter tho does it as the moment they get someone really good, klopp is already waiting outside their training ground

@redmed10 2 года назад

Does he get to first base? Why does no one ever explain what getting on first base actually means when they talk about moneyball. That stat about throw ins always makes me laugh. Because players very rarely take quick throw ins even it's advantageous to do so. Rather they take an absolute age to take throw ins. It's like an unwritten rule that throw ins are a chance to take a bit of a breather for both sides.

@TheSnkrPimp 2 года назад

02:31 Fraser Forster/Ben Foster twins separated at birth?

@TobyLerone-yn3rr 2 года назад

Athletic poaching Journos directly out the womb now?

@arkoguha888 2 года назад

This is how you jinxed brentford who are dangerously close to getting relegated

@coachhbosoccer Год назад

People still eating brunch off that Van Dyke transfer to Liverpool lol

@pmorton7960 2 года назад

Maybe, seems Liverpool has moved beyond using Southampton as a feeder team. They have 5 years to get that Champions League last 16 money...

@shalomltd6213 2 года назад

No, because everyone is using the same analytics - so there’s no “arbitrage” within the market anymore

@Sam1878Henry 2 года назад

Southampton have always sold their best players

@TomTheSaintsGuy 2 года назад

Not very easy when their best players try and force moves away

@rollingstoned8417 2 года назад

The next moneyball team? They've BEEN the moneyball team

@amirmanipanjnoush3954 2 года назад

Not first

@misters6749 2 года назад

I was thinking that would be Brentford with their owners being Data pros and what not

@talhaishfaq8410 2 года назад

They're the last moneyball team

@dannycrotch5188 2 года назад

Has someone stepped out of a Tardis?? We all knew this many years ago...

@francisd7081 2 года назад

It’s not that complicated. It’s the exact same situation at any other club, they build a great squad but then sell almost all their best players and fail to reinvest the money into consistently good players to repeat the process. Ings was good but too injury prone. Romeu is an average CDM, Bendarek and Stephens are average as well. I could go on

@Tommy-hb1hr 2 года назад

It is a bit more complicated than the way you have made out. Our club situation is slightly different, in which we stress the development of players through giving younger players chances to make their name in the premier league. In Ings best season in which we almost relied on him for goals, he was fit basically the whole season and scored the most non penalty goals in the whole premier league that season. Calling Romeu an average CDM is an insult to the sport, I would say as someone who watches him consistently, he may not have a whole lot going forward but his partnership with Ward-Prowse, in which JWP is the main playmaker, allows the ball to constantly move forward towards the wingers in Ralphs 4222 and is so important to how we build attacks and eventually score goals. Bednarek and Stephens is the only accurate judgement you have made in this comment, but in terms of average spend on centre-backs for the premier league, which is what I assume you are alluding to, they are both very good recruitment considering they had a combined cost of less than 10 million pounds combined. Alan, it is more complicated than you think and I would like you to go on about this team given the completely inaccurate comment you have made and enlighten me in how Southampton's situation is the exact same as it is at "any other club".

@francisd7081 2 года назад

@@Tommy-hb1hr I already did enlighten you. Of course if we dive into specifics every club is a bit different. But Southampton's main issue IMO is a general failure of replacing really excellent players. Did they effectively replace VVD? Mane? Shaw? etc... No they have not. I don't care about "average spend" or how economical certain players may be. In terms of raw talent they have failed to replace successfully. Romeu is average, just admit it! There is nothing spectacular about him. Yes Southampton does utilize a model of giving youth players a chance, correct, but they also recruit and buy smartly like when they bought Ings, VVD, Mane. However they have failed to replace them. This is also the case in Milan, Barcelona and many others. Amazing players either retire or move on and the team fails to replace them with equally good players.

@targetthyself 2 года назад

The Problem with Southampton as a "moneyball" club is that they don't actually leverage their assets. Tadic is a perfect example. They net lost 300k on him. How do you even do that? They sold Mane for peanuts, they got almost nothing for Bale. If you're trying to generate value for assets you actually have to convert your assets into value. Look at that net spend. They've tread water. That's not good enough. Need to buy for 30, sell for 100. Or you're just spinning tires. Also this approach isn't moneyball. It's just sensible for a team that can't compete.

@andymina9561 2 года назад

I'll never understand why people focus on net spend to justify a teams position, if a team spends 100 million on players and receive 100 million, they still purchased 100 million worth of talent so should expect big things for the money spent

@telquel7843 2 года назад

Is VVD still considered the best center back in the world? 🤔 He's certainly not as good as he was pre injury.

@PauloAtkinson1 2 года назад

"So where will Southampton be in 5 years?" (Don't say "doing your mom", don't say "doing your mom", don't say "doing your mom"...)

@abolfazl2623 2 года назад

Is Joe always wearing the same outfit?

@oitoitoi1 11 месяцев назад

RIP Southampton.

@reluctantsocialist2670 2 года назад

That isn't how money ball works ffs

@user-ek1hs6yu4s Год назад

Xxxx

@guybrushthreepwood6371 2 года назад

Forster went to Celtic from Newcastle and then southampton bought him

@dddgtsd 2 года назад

Did he go back on loan from Southampton perhaps? I remember he definitely went on loan to Celtic from Newcastle though, you're right.

@KetaManiacc 2 года назад

Forster was on loan at Celtic the 2019/20 season

@leonardrefinchie5677 2 года назад

Hai Sidharta Keanu Liem

@jnes624 2 года назад

Videos 5 years late

@lexcook5007 2 года назад

Leicester will be the always be the true money ball team

@jeniferallan6693 2 года назад

Yawn

@maxontoast 2 года назад

I’m a Pompey fan have never been a great fan of Alex… makes sense now 😂

@0saintclark0 2 года назад

I feel like you're being disingenuous by ONLY focussing on net spend. You're making it sound, especially when you talk about Brentford, as if they didn't spend any money at all - which isn't true. Money was spent, it's just more was brought in. It's not that Brentford and Saints didn't go out and spend money on transfers.

@user-zw1op6nz5d Год назад

nope, they are merely a cash cow team. they arent going for something unlike Brighton or Brentford

@cfcmoi11 2 года назад

This isn't good of the game

@fishyfish6510 2 года назад

???

@gruevlock24 2 года назад

Reminds me of Liverpool. Build up Coutinho, Saurez, and now Salah is leaving. Loser mentality.

@jonstewartsuperfan2988 2 года назад

VVD is not the "best CB in the world "- City have the best defense in the league by far - Dias is statistically the best CB in the world and won player of the season - Liverpool have been quite open at the back in the last 2 season actually

@jaishu123 2 года назад

VVD was injured last season.

@angryman132 2 года назад

They suck him dry matip is clear of vvd now

@userjim83 2 года назад

The two teams play totally differently, City keep control of the ball more and play less risky passes which is why they have a better defensive record as they aren’t exposed as much. Anyone that watches the two players mentioned can see VVD is far better than Dias.