Are the FANATEC DD1 & DD2 STILL WORTH IT in 2023? 

thanks alot for that video, when we use the fanalab recommended settings, will fanalab always overwrite my Settings of setUp 1 of my wheel?

@@BBRacing_oNE1 it overwrites the current selected setup so if you have saved on set 1 just select set 2 in fanalab prior to loading the settings u want

@@BBRacing_oNE1 yes

BTW I didnt see you cover this but there is also another feature in Fanalab under Profiles where it will detect and auto load FFB profiles per car. You need to create the profile or get it from somewhere, but after selecting the specific car, it auto recognizes and works very well. I believe this is different than auto setup. Maurice on the Fanatec formus created a huge FFB pack with most cars from many of the different sims. I have been using it and it transformed how my CSL DD feels.

A Great review Will, thx a lot from a very happy DD1 owner :) Could you please post your final settings for ACC/Fanalab, after the update, that would be very much apperciated :D

The cogging after few minutes of use bothers me a bit but not a deal breaker.

@@truejayohwhat’s this? Looking at buying one and haven’t come across that yet

Glad I went DD2. I believed they were the same almost. But if your feeling torque ripple when driving, then I can only recommend people go DD2.

RE the quick release. I got the 3D printed O Ring replacement and honestly I do not notice any play in it whatsoever. Well worth buying for anyone that hasn't done so yet.

LOL!!!

😂😂

The heat

This was a huge improvement, something I've desired for a long time.

Maurice's cars profile ❤

​@Mike Griggs If you have CSW 2.5 and not CSL, the torque that moza has to offer is basically the same. I would suggest if you are planing to actually upgrade and not sidegrade, to invest in a VRS or at least Simagic Alpha if not Alpha Ultimate. I have upgraded from CSW 2.5 to a SC2 Pro, and have zero regrets, the FFB is lightyears better, the QR system too, and at least for me, the main reason to upgrade was ditching the closed ecosystem and getting a wheelbase with more torque. Depending on the car, but running all the way from 8Nm for Rally/road cars/drifting and all the way to 25Nm for Lotus 79, LMP2 etc. And it really makes the difference. So I would suggest either selling your current gear and changing over to a more open brand. So if you sell the gear you have and instead of getting the Moza R9 to invest 200- 300 USD more, and get the VRS or the Simagic Alpha Ultimate. For the button plate on the wheel I would suggest getting the Turn racing BP2 for 320 USD. Which will be a proper upgrade instead of a sidegrade. VRS is 900 USD, Alpha Ultimate is 1000 USD, therefore you are still looking including wheel less than the DD2, with a comparable if not a bit better performance. Haave seen people in Simucube community sell their SC2 Pro wheelbase and replace them with Simagic Alpha Ultimate. The choice of course is yours, but after spending 2 years in Fanatec ecosystem and trying different gear, I just think Fanatec is not worth your hard earned time and money.

​@@nejcmirtic529 Very informative writeup, thanks for that. I have an old Fanatec CSR wheel and have been saving up/biding my time. I was set on Fanatec, but reading your comment certainly has me considering other players.

I always do the same thing 🔥🔥

Looking to do this exact path upgrade any down side to it?

That is the main concept behind their ecosystem, the so-called "sunk cost fallacy", where they know that you will want to stay in their ecosystem since you have already invested X amount into their gear. So to your brain it makes "more sense" to invest additional money to get something, even if it is worse/more expensive than what other brands have to offer. And no, not every wheel on the market costs 500+€ for Simucube and other brands. I had a CSW 2.5, V3 pedals and Universal Hub with a wheel. Sold everything and gotten the SC2, BJ Steel GT Pro and 2 wheels (SRB BB Ultra and just a round steering wheel 33cm). And all I can say is, every piece of gear is just on a completely different level, very glad I have decided to ditch their ecosystem and go for a wheelbase where the choice of the wheel doesn't matter. And QR is lightyears better and cheaper than the one Fanatec has to offer. So just a simple "drift/NASCAR" rim will inherently be 140€ cheaper compared to Fanatec. The Turn racing BP2 is $320, Polsimer F1 steering wheels are roughly $350, Sim-line button plates are also in the 300 price bracket, the Mike Kapral wheels are 200€ as a kit and 300€ assembled, so there ARE similarly priced options out there. Just maybe not as obvious as average consumer would need them to be. Also cannot wait to start the Pokornyi DIY LMP Pro and GT2 button plate projects, which I refused to start when I was in the Fanatec ecosystem, due to the inherent need for a Podium Hub.

@@nejcmirtic529 which motor would you recommend for someone that wants to get into sim racing? I was thinking of getting a belt driven motor but not gonna lie DD wheels look and sound super cool but maybe they are just too much for my initial budget. A good belt driven seems to be much cheaper than a DD when starting at least.

​@@GabrielP2R The real entry lever gear used to be G29 for 250€ ish everything above that used to be mid-range. And that was true even for the Fanatec gear. The CSL Elite was 350€ and the CSW 2.5 was 550€ which is currently on par with most of the "entry-level" DD wheelbase. My fist tip would be, to GET A REALLY GOOD RIG. I would suggest skipping all of the Playseat and similar tubular rigs, and going straight to a 8020 aluminium rig, which will be able to accommodate every gear you will decide to later invest into. Something like a TR80 Lite or even TR80 Mk5, and if you don't feel like spending 250€ for a bucket seat, you can get a clean used car seat for 50€. Only with a solid and that adjustable rig, you will be able to later upgrade just the gear, w/o the need to upgrade the rig in the process too. The cheapest Fanatec setup is still 700€ For CSL DD 5Nm (350€) with basic CSL pedals 80-140€ (2 vs 3 pedals, no LC) and 140 for P1 steering wheel, which adds up to 640€. Which is also in line with the Moza R5 bundle. So sadly for anything under 700 USD, I would say you will want to upgrade the gear rather soon. So my suggestion would be, to start with a G29 to get the grips or to get a decent second-hand belt-driven wheelbase for some $500-600 (CSL Elite or CSW 2.5 with CSL Elite pedals and a steering wheel). That should last you for some years before you want to upgrade. After that, sell the gear you bought and investing a bit more than 700€ for the most basic "mid-range gear". Based on my experience after trying my CSW 2.5 vs SC2 rig was, only after I upgraded the gear the sim became really fun to drive, and you can really feel the car much better than with the CSW 2.5. I noticed the same input from the friends that came to try my rig. The CSW 2.5 nad V3 pedals were a toy and people took it as a joke and didn't really enjoy vs now that they keep asking me when is the next time they can come and drive. So based on that experience, my minimal go to gear suggestion would be, at least 10Nm, but sadly those setups usually start at about 1000€/$. So for next step I would suggest at minimum Simagic Alpha Mini, which is $500, Fanatec CSL Elite V2 pedals that are $300 (for anything more I would suggest BJ Steel GT Pro or if you don't need a clutch look at VRS pedals) for a wheel I would get the USB Turn racing BP2 wheel plate or Simagic GT Cup steering wheel. Add all up and you are looking at about 1200 USD. Or if you can afford a bit more to invest the VRS or Alpha Ultimate would be my go-to wheelbases, and the wheel/button plate of your choice. And pedals really look at VRS or BJ Steel GT Pro or Simforge MK1. All that is of course for the use with a PC, where your choice of hardware is free. For consoles sadly the best you can get is Fanatec and you cannot mix and match the gear. So here my advice would be, before you start seriously investing in sim gear, get a PC first, then invest big bucks into sim gear.

@@nejcmirtic529 PC is my hardware of choice, always. I will have to buy a full PC though, which is an add expense, from peripherals to the PC itself. I took a look at the t300rs GT, which I found some good reviews from people in the sim racing communities as an decent mid-level/entry option, used I found for 200€ and some with a playseat for 400€, but I think it would be better to also get a good used rig made from aluminum as you said. What you think of the T300RS Gt? I'm going to take a look at the CSW 2.5 too, mid-level is what I'm looking for at this point.

@@GabrielP2R T300 RS is better than the G29 and ok as a beginner wheel, just make sure it doesn't overheat. Otherwise, if you can get a good-priced CSL Elite wheelbase and a wheel (400 ish) it will already be a big upgrade, and they don't overheat as much as the T300 does. The main problem with the T300 is the overheating and loss of FFB strength due to that. Don't even look at the Playseat rigs, because they are overpriced POS. Wobbly as hell, the wheel deck pillar is in between your legs which makes in some configurations using brake next to impossible, and heel and toe completely impossible. And a friend who had it managed to pull the screw of the pedal plate through the steel tube while using the CSL Elite LC pedals. So yeah, I would strongly encourage you to get a solid base that you can later upgrade to literally any gear you want.

Go to Fanatecs Forums, there is a great forum regarding Profiles, and Maurice on there has done all the leg work for us to create amazing profiles per car for each sim, that will auto change per car with a few files you can integrate.

@@sincity_steve i knew he made settings for a lot of cars in iracing but i didnt know about the auto change. Thanks i'll have a look

@@sincity_steve Thanks for your input Steve, will do accordingly. Have a nice day buddy!

I had the exact opposite experience :D After years of deskmounted g28 i went 8020 rig with a CSL DD 8nm. A month later I already wanted more and got the DD1 and I am a lot happier now. I had a better experience setting the wheel base at 100% and setting the ingame settings down to avoid clipping.

I did the same sold my DD2 for the DD pro

@@dirtysouthracingnetwork8830 that’s a really big downgrade

@@OkiDingoagreed, I have the GT dd pro as a back up, but no way I could ever go back to the smaller wheelbase for permanent use after the dd1 experience. Even fully maxed out it can’t hold a candle to the podium power.

I cannot imagine going back to my CSL DD after running my DD2 for the past year or so. The DD2 feels better in virtually all regards to me, but it is subjective and a personal preference.

Maurice is a lifesaver. Got my DD2 in June, since the FFB update + Maurice’s profiles, I have 0 complaints about my DD2. It’s frankly amazing, and the 5 year warranty is a massive plus imo

This aspect really needs more publicity, fanalab will now automatically load car specific profiles (mine are all from Maurice) and it makes the process of jumping in and driving that much easier. I never use the 5 memory slots now and I only really go into the settings on the wheel to adjust the brake pressure. Very happy DD2 user here.

@@gregspicer1238 agree. They should be more vocal on it, or even include it in Fanalab when installing.

Yes these profiles completely changed my experience with my DD1. Made a massive difference having proper profiles and having them load automatically whenever you change cars is awesome.

This is one of the main reasons I am nervous about switching to another wheelbase. Having these profiles and not needing to tweak settings for every car is enormous. It's the community users like this that really add to the overall Fanatec experience. I don't frequent the Simucube forums often. Is there a "super-user" or profiles like this available?

What's the issue with AC?

@Roberto Bianca 🤣🤣🤣🤣 You are a scammer!!! Men, you are so funny. You just made me laugh so much this morning.

I don't feel it at all. Are you latest drivers etc?

Same here, it feels smooth to me

Isnt DD2 an overkill for just drifting tho?

@@xXxBo5sANaCxXx It the other way around, especially in competition cars, we use 900 to 1080 degree lock to lock in high torque.

@@xXxBo5sANaCxXx some cars are almost impossible to control with a non direct drive wheel. Drifting needs the extra power, speed, and precision. Rally needs it to and makes it more enjoyable

We’ve thought about doing something like that but I worry it oversimplifies things. I don’t see my job as telling you what’s best, but rather to try and convey the experience so you can decide for yourself what’s best for you specifically.

Same here

In the fanatec forums, Maurice Böschen has great profiles for iracing and ACC. Ps: If you have a CSL-DD, multiply by 0.53 in iracing black box, set max ffb to 8nm, and 100%ffb in fanalab. (Depending on the power output the value changes. Maurice explains in the download forum.)

They are very dull profiles I felt as tho these profiles killed the Ffb and overall feeling.

Yep, massive feature

@@andypovich6604 they don't really work with the CSL DD.

@@Miguel-th3wx ive used it for the last 3 months and i like them better than most ive found.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XpG199_V_Xo.html

It's only available in the forum because it's still in Beta.

I have not had this problem across 3 headsets that use lighthouse tracking, Index, Vive Pro 2 and 8KX. I have a DD1 in a SimLab GT1 on carpet. There must be another variable.

@@vulcantuminello1127 After more investigation, I found out that when I moved the rig to another room, the issue pretty much went away. It might be that the new room has carpeted floors and blackout curtains. The old room had lots of windows and hardwoods. I'll delete my previous comment, but wanted to reply first.

I think Fanatec went on sale this Black Friday (unlike they did the years before) to get rid of stock. Aka I think something new is coming eventually.

@@PresidentScrooge Fingers crossed for more new stuff.

I do think the upgrade was worth it. The strength and range of forces are so much better

What is torque ripple? And why don’t you recommend the upgrade? Just because it’s too expensive? If money wouldn’t be the deciding factor (I have no DD yet I still use a Logitech G923 and could get a DD1 for basically only 200€ more than the small 5nm fanatec DD) would you recommend it? Or better pay double and get a Simucube?

@@rolux4853 on the DD1 if you run 70% + FFB on a game like AC with a F1 car and then go down the straight swerving like you are warming up the tires, you will feel a notch when coming back through center…The CSL DD with boost would be a huge upgrade for you…or Fanatec should be releasing a mid-tier DD with a new QR in the next year if you want to wait…simucube wheels are too expensive plus you would need a serious rig…

@@Stevo6042 a rig is no problem, I would get a whole aluminum rig including seat, with 3 heusinkveld sprint pedals, heusinkveld handbrake, heusinkveld shifter the DD1 with the quick connector, 3 types of wheels, a 34“ curved screen and lots of extra stuff to install more things on the rig for 2500€. It would be plug and play into l computer, everything is already wired up into hubs so I just have to put in one socket and one usb. That’s why I’m tempted and the price is good if I check the individual used prices. I could sell the DD1, the Heusinkveld sequential shifter and Handbrake and the modern wheels and get a Simucube for that money since I only drive vintage cars with clutch and H pattern shifter. Then I have a wheel without botch in the middle. The weird thing is that I tried a podium at another friends house and felt absolutely no notch in the middle. But like I said I would never drive s modern F1 car I really dislike them. I only drive the F1 cars up to the 90s. And that’s very very seldom even, usually I drive much older stuff and most of the time no open wheelers. Modern stuff only NASCAR ovals in iRacing and some modern touring cars. Do you think this would be a good deal with all that stuff even if it has a feelable notch in some modern F1 cars that I don’t use?

@@rolux4853 that seems like a good deal and will be a huge upgrade from the Logitech. The big thing is that you drove a DD1 and liked it…the CSL was smoother but it didn’t have enough power for me driving high downforce cars.

Have you tried this latest beta firmware?

A bit of silicone grease on the qr1 hub and wheelside qr1 eliminated the clunk entirely for me.

Thanks! Force feedback is an extremely subjective thing which is why I try to focus on the characteristics of the motor and what it “can” do for these types of videos.

I'm in IT too and you're wrong about PCs being difficult lmao

PC is the way to go. You're missing out if you're serious about sim racing.

@@impreza0109 The PC sim racing scene is far better than console but the suggestion you want come across a myried of hardware and software issues on PC compred to the smooth trouble free console experience is incredibly misleading.

Im running the mclaren wheel on a csl dd 8nm and i totally recommend it to you Bu torque is like coke.... you never Have enough....

How would u compare it to the fanatec

I don’t own a fanatic wheel, I upgraded form a Thrustmaster 300, I race 2 times a week for long sessions and I wanted something that just works. The Feedback is strong and very detailed. I hit every curb because you feel every ripple. And I wanted a wheelbase where you can change settings on the wheel base it self. I am waiting for the next wheel form Logitech because the quick release is a work of art, very strong and super solid and quick is joy to use… Also fanatec is very hard to get where i am from, and to many issue’s….

? The DD1 was only released less than 4 years ago.... 😅

I've had my DD1 for 15 years and I love it!!