Are Turmeric And Black Pepper Bad For Health? 

I don't think it will be an eye opener for the mentioned group, because this folks don't watch channels like this.

Perfect? From a study of n=1? Really?

@@nicklam66 it's not an experiment targeting a population, no generalisation onto the population level is intended, nor possible... For that the N would be =1, sure. However, here we have a time series analysis, with enough data points to calculate associations, and for some key components he also performed recently repeated On/Off experiments. Those allow conclusions on the level of causality, which often are not possible for simple RCT. In fact, time series are the only type of experiment that unequivocally allow to talk about causality. Of course, it would be nicer if everything he is doing would include 11+ other people. Then it would start to be possible to have generalisation to population level

​@@monnoo8221keep dreaming 😅

@@willnitschke nothing to say to a guy not knowing anything, have a good rest....

Does it affect your iron level,like lower it?

@@Mikolas649He won’t know because he hasn’t been to a doctor since 1972.

@Michael_RareZebra Seems like he's pretty healthy

Thanks @andymilkowski7682!

I didn't set out to debunk Paul-I would've posted the data even if it worked against me...

​@conqueragingordietrying1797 we all know paul is a pick me. He talks loud and looks around when speaking so he knows everyone knows he is talking. He is a talker, not a doctor. I agree with very little he says.

​@@user-cr4pz5yg7y he is flat earther anti science 🤡

Thanks @philmartz, and I appreciate your support!

Soon enough we will have a "scientific AI" into which we can dump all of the data and it will spit out a total analysis like this.

@@grugnotice7746 Or it will just make up stuff. I was trying to get the percentages of kinds of sugars in various fruits and berries. And it completely fabricated the numbers. So, some time when I have 6 hours, I guess I will have to do it myself (I was trying to reduce fructose intake, but still have enjoyable fruit).

@@ChessMasterNate That's first gen large language models, not 2nd or 3rd gen models hand crafted for scientific analysis.

@@grugnotice7746 I was just emphasizing that they are not ready, not that they will never be. Clearly, they are improving rapidly.

@@grugnotice7746 that are LLM, first, and second, handcrafted means, there is no AI, just an automation of the limited understanding of the programmer. Thus those meta algorithms are not able to do scientific work for the foreseeable future==some 200 years

Thanks @williamhoffer9277!

Thanks @pimacanyon6208!

Thanks @hereticsaint100!

Thanks @agy3504!

Thanks @consciousnessawake505. i'd start by searching the YT channel for each biomarker What you don't find I can send

Hi @frankfeather8548, I'd start by searching for each biomarker on the YT channel. What you can't find, I'll send

Thanks @drlorishemek. Potentially positive based on the turmeric amounts in the video, at least in my case. I'd encourage others to test biomarkers in conjunction with any supplement addition, to see if it's detrimental, neutral, or potentially a positive for health

It's an American thing.

I'm not sure what the other confounders could be, but a lower body weight seems to have the largest impact on these biomarkers.

THanks @wjjansen6393!

@@quantifiedmax What makes you think that these correlations are generated by randomness after 30 blood tests?

Thanks @bosman6456. There's a U-shaped curve for platelets in terms of all-cause mortality risk, with < 200 and > 300 associated with increased risk. In my case, is closer to 200 or 300 better? An argument could be made that the platelet associations could be green, as lower within the 200-300 range is associated with more biomarkers going in the right direction vs wrong.

I think Mike has already discussed some of that in a previous video...lower body weight is generally beneficial if your preserving muscle mass, but there seems to be a limit of CR beyond which some important marker start to decline like strength, muscle mass. Also reserves become limited which is something else to consider.

Yep, definitely. The data currently suggests that I can go higher for both, too-maybe there's an upper limit for potential health effects

Hmm, thanks James, I'll have to think about how to present that, as It could get messy with even more data

Yep, that's definitely possible-arguments can be made that both platelets and RBCs are actually green, but to play it by the book (age-related changes), they're technically red.

Thanks Abdelilah. Note that I'm generally anti- all oils, not just olive oil-I prefer whole foods instead, including olives...

Anything in excess is bad for you. Even water. Yes, overconsumption of water can kill. Does the few cases of people dying from overconsumption of water mean that water is bad for your health ?

Good question-I've experimented with summing the actual correlations, but I'm not sure that's a better approach

That’s inspiring :)

Someone told me in a cafe "don't take stains, they give you dementia". She seemed an intelligent 65 year old.

@@BR-hi6yt statins are vary scary with very very little benefit but high profitability,

​@@BR-hi6yt I don't know about dementia, but they sure make your body hurt. I had a heart attack they put me on Lipator , I had a second one, they asked are you taking your cholesterol medicine? I said yes why, well you had a burst of cholesterol to clog your artery. Why am I taken it if it doesn't do it's job......I haven't in roughly 2 mths

3x higher than now at its peak, about 2x higher than now (< 0.3 mg/L for 17 consecutive tests) on average

The bioavailability of turmeric (or not) is somewhat over-popularized. What isn't absorbed can be metabolized by gut bacteria, potentially also benefitting health.

​@@conqueragingordietrying1797 My take on the bioavailability science was ground turmeric or curcumin extract powder itself are useful even if not well absorbed as they collect in GI tissues more than the high bioavailability supplements. If however you want high circulating amounts, then using something like Theracurmin is a reasonable choice. However these high bioavailability supplements seem to have more pronounced side effects in some people. Its a shame they don't have clear use cases with associated biomarkers.

Nope, I don't track that

To help with oxalate removal / allievation - eat organic cheeses , butter, yogurt from Goats, Ewes/ Sheep. Avoid dairy from Cows. Cows eat grass - in nature they dont eat any grains which causes them terrible health issues , rhe inflammation contaminates their flesh and milk. If l eat beef its in small amounts and always Aberdeen Angus or Bovines that are feed ib grass from start to finish of their lives.

Below 200 for platelets, as 200-300 is associated with lowest ACM risk

Why does tumeric and black pepper affect RBC and platelet count?

@@yeoyeodere1 They're correlations, I can't say if it's causation, but it could be that higher levels of both may be too high, and slightly lower levels may be a more healthful profile. If/how that happens, beyond the correlation, not sure

Interesting, can you please post that link? Platelets decline during aging...

it does a lot of things... for instance, it makes macrophages hungry, such that they are cleaning waste more effectively

Hi James, yep, ground turmeric, mentioned in the video at 1:45

Up-to 6 years of biomarker data in the video... There would be a pattern in the biomarkers of that, i.e. higher uric acid because of decreased kidney function, or increased inflammation with a more permeable gut lining. There's no evidence for that being true in my data atm...

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 oxalate build-up effects I think depends on our Microbiome... True?.. Oxalate build-up may become an issue after a very long time just like cancers.. But hey i highly appreciate your videos... It's just an idea I had

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Maybe when you have a couple more years of data you can split the analysis into first 5, last 3 and see if the same relationships hold across time. Or alternatively add a variable of total curcumin intake over time and see if anything shows up.

Most curcumin supplements are made with turmeric extract, and therefore extremely low in oxalates.

@@skincraftorganicsllc8537 I press my own organic kurkuma as 1000mg per capsule caps, mixed with black pepper 20:1 ratio, ingest it with fish oil caps mostly. Its high in oxalates

Don't get me wrong, i appreciate Paul. But, the point of the video is to objectively assess whether turmeric or black pepper may be bad for health by tracking one's own biomarkers over a long time period.

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I'm just kidding. Thank you for another great video!

Not yet, but red light therapy is definitely on the to-do list in terms of potential experiments. Which biomarkers it will improve, if any (in my case) is debatable.

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Probably measures of skin health, recovery and possibly detoxification markers, Although you could argue each of those has higher priority interventions, and some of markers are hard to measure.

Some of the correlations for turmeric were with a longer telomere length, not shorter, and if black pepper increased gut permeability, I'd expect to see increased systemic inflammation, but that's not the case based on the associations in the video.

Could you please state more about its (turmeric) “mechanism stressing the cell”? Where could I find more info? What terms to search? 🙏 Thank you!

@@barbiekat6352 Google "tumeric oxidative stress"

I'm not sure if it's because of AGE products, but I track fructose intake, which has a -7 correlative score with these 26 biomarkers. To follow the correlation, my current intake is about half of my highest, and I'm working on bringing it lower.

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Thanks. -7 sounds pretty bad. It probably is the AGEs. They stiffen tissues and are thus associated with just about every negative condition common in aging. Obstruction is probably also a factor, slowing hydration, removal of wastes and oxygenation. The effects probably overlap with amyloids, as they both are useless proteins that build up, the body has difficulty getting rid of. I found an interesting study: : "Advanced glycation end-products, measured as skin autofluorescence, associate with vascular stiffness in diabetic, pre-diabetic and normoglycemic individuals: a cross-sectional study." Bryan Johnson has one of those arm gadgets. He rarely mentions it, so I am curious where it puts him. Heck, I want to know where I am at. I have been reasonably good the last, almost 6 years, regarding consuming AGEs. But when I was a kid and in my 20s, and 30s even, I was not so good. I did not eat fried stuff and BBQ every day, but I liked buffets, and ate a lot of Hometown Buffet, which cannot have been good. I even did their breakfast a few times and ate mounds of bacon. One pile of that probably adds up to a year of AGEs. I figured the only issue was the saturated fat. I did not know anything about AGEs. I focused back then on getting every nutrient my body might need, and exercise. I exercised, including weight training, from 1984 to 2007. Crap happened in 2007, and I haven't completely put things together. I am hoping they are wrong and glucosepane actually can be removed from the body, just very slowly. Then, there is every reason to think decades of being good will enhance my health rather than just slowing decline. Reducing AGEs in the diet, improved my kidney function dramatically. GFR of 72 brought up to 108 (111 a few months back). Oh, that albumen pill did increase my albumen, but some other numbers went backward. I don't know if that is connected, though. I am moving too many variables at the same time.

Great question, very high over the 6yr period: r=0.92, p=4E-15

​@@conqueragingordietrying1797 So it could be a possible confounding? Did you adjust for it?

Its tricky here regarding confounding as its well known pepper increases the bioavailability of curcumin. One analysis would be to analyse pepper and turmeric together see what is stronger, maybe in a combined endpoint. Other experiments are supplements without pepper and taking pepper and turmeric at different meals.

​@@conqueragingordietrying1797 It would be worth checking mediation with back pepper here.

They're correlations, I can't say if they're causative, but one possibility is that both were too high, and lowering them may be a part of a healthier systemic environment.

Hi @btlmail1969, current turmeric intake is at 1:51

But at the same time, Turmeric has been shown to block the action of highly estrogen substances like Bisphenol-A.

you don't need much DHT as an adult It's not Finasteride or Saw Palmetto Very weak and insignificant DHT inhibition

Watch the video?

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I've watched it, can you direct me to the minute where you talk about iron or microbiome and the interaction with turmeric? Just a boring video where you hide behind "data" and think that tells the whole story, in most double blinded randomized controlled studies you will see people that have very good response to the intervention and people who have very bad, including low carb, high carb or other nutrients. I believer it's called a waterfall plot. That's why that is science and this is playtime. If you have a good microbiome you will have the good response, like you do here with a lot of biomarkers but if we take 50 people and do the same controlled diet/turmeric diet you will see people having 10 negative markers and 1-2 good. This is perfectly exemplified in the stanford microbiome studies where people with low diversity have more inflammation with more fiber and people with high diversity have less inflammation and more benefits.

I watched the video also. I'd love to get the positive benefits the data revealed, but I'm personally at greater risk for the negatives, possibly..? Snarky(?) replies to viewers' comments aren't helpful. Taking the comments seriously is an opportunity to advance the conversation for everyone. That said, great video. Bad reply.

@@matttee1319 I'm not trying to be snarky, but your comment, "Turmeric is probably good IF you have a good microbiome that deals with the oxalate content, just like most vegetables" has nothing to do with what's in the video, which is an objective, data-driven analysis.

well i have Hemochromatosis, hope it lowers iron. Im 71 and platelets etc low...

Oxalate is a potential problem, but based on the data in the video, the net effect of turmeric is potentially positive.

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 i take high long term curcumin and pepper with no oxalates problems yet

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Surely Oxalate isn't a problem in an extract?

For the 3g of turmeric and 2g of black pepper that I eat per day, that's 81 mg of oxalate, which is a very small amount when compared to 1oz of spinach (325 mg). Oxalate binds to calcium, followed by their excretion, so it's essential to ensure a far higher calcium intake. In my case, I aim for at least 600-700 more calcium relative to oxalate.

That's great, it doesn't have to be my way, there may be many roads to optimal health.

For the purported benefits, yep

I take them together, albeit in slightly different amounts.

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Its worth taking them together because of the increase in curcumin bioavailability.

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 wonder what happens if you measure correlation of one independent on the other.

Not for me-I weigh all my food

Its hard to know if the lower RBC is important or casual. For example, the reduction in CRP could mediate the reduction in RBC through reduced inflammation. Directly increasing RBCs would be worth exploring.

That's an interesting take. I don't know why I have lower rbc's. I'm tempted to add the turmeric and see if my labs change.

@@matttee1319 You have your answer then -- figuring out the why is the most important thing, for rbcs its usually related to iron intake, b vitamins and membrane substrates (saturated fats etc). Make sure you measure hsCRP and consider 3-4g/day turmeric equivalents (e.g. like Mike above with turmeric(3-4g)+black pepper(~1-2g), or bioavailable supplements) and consider it as an "intervention" otherwise you'll be needing to measure over and over again to form a linear model.

The only way to know is to do the experiment...

@@matttee1319 you may take a few days into the mountains, above 3000m altitude, and do a zone 2 training. Or you restrict breath while doing exercise, by increasing air\breathing resistance. Or you can do breathwork with extended holds

Meta-analysis? That's not in the video

It's not about Paul, it's about the idea-in my case, there's no evidence that either turmeric or black pepper may be bad for health

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 based and blue pilled

@@ATT935 lol, blue vs red pill is a false choice

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 no worries is just meming... we are all longevity pilled here no cap on a stack 👍

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 it burns my throat and causes gerd for me. is that a way of being healthy? feeling like shit? lol

I appreciate Paul, too

I don't have an advanced math degree, so if I can do it, anyone can. I agree about AI

try 5,000 years way ahead of other nations in natural cuisine and herbs, but never min I am sures Gates and Bros, will have the west eating soylent green, blue and yellow before long.

if you are honest, you do proper science, otherwise you engage in meta analysis and crappy epidemiology. Michal is not doing N=1.... that's a paper tiger or straw man argument. He has enough data points, usually>20 to check for associations. Since everybody is an individual, it is anyway practically impossible to find anything interesting using a generalized approach on the population level via epidemiological studies.

There are pros and cons to all methodological approaches. The key is to understand the limitations and not inflate the evidence. Those are tough skills to acquire, and even well respected scientists misunderstand the nuances of results on first pass, and it sometimes takes multiple peer reviews to sort things out.

@@monnoo8221 reading cherry picked paper isnt science science requires scientific method, not spoonfed (often times cherry picked) data (to justify one's world-view), michael is doing very very well with the way he does it, i wouldnt do it much different if i had the funds to do all the testings 😂ive to rely on intuition more (less reliable/slower, but teaches u intuitiveness in everyday life as well so its got its merits too i guess)

@@sooooooooDark you probably misunderstood it before, i am quite scepticaal against meta analyses, cllecting large N, but neglecting any important details. (using "you" in the earlier post was not the personal pronoun, it was the generalizing one) I completely agree, what you are saying here

@@monnoo8221 meta studies r good if u cant measure it urself like michael does it tho xD, im not claiming that it will yield the best possibly results... but its better than nothing 😅

I don't see it like that-I appreciate Paul. We can't always be right-I've had plenty of hypotheses that have fallen flat on my face (grape seed powder, fish oil to increase NAD). But I think the takeaway is doing the experiment, rather than relying on opinion, to find the truth...

Great ideas can come from anywhere, it's important to keep an open mind

www.reddit.com/r/Cooking/comments/10elhpa/turmeric_do_you_pronounce_the_first_r_or_not/

In my case, perhaps, but I'd encourage others to track their own data to see if it's true, or not...

Yes @rickspalding3047, of course, Bryan and I have chatted a couple of times. I appreciate Bryan being in this space, shining the spotlight on living long enough to live forever.

Yes , he is a clown, just sometimes is right , like about black pepper. But it is not important if you believe him or me, if you have problems with black pepper you should notice it. BTW it wrecks your gut, and aggravates leaky gut greatly