There's one group of people who always seem to get overlooked. That's people who play other instruments. As a guitarist, I have an arranger keyboard as a practice tool and composition aid. It's useful for any musician to be able to play a keyboard even badly to understand musical relationships between notes even if you can't play at a performance level. I can record loops and basslines to play along with but someone really ought to invent an arranger footboard so I can change chords or get a fill on the fly.
Arrangers are ideal for one-man-band types of performance, whereas a synth is ideal as one instrument in a band. That’s really where the core difference exists.
I agree, Vanessa. For myself, now being just a "home player" went with an Arrange to sit on top of my Yamaha HS4 organ. I didn't want a synth since any synth stuff I need to do, the arranger has it and has a pretty good selection. Although, not easily adjustable like a real synth. For home, it's the Arranger for this guy. LOL And speaking of Arrangers, that Yamaha Genos is something else. But, it's now got some major competition with Korg's new Pa5X. And this bad boy can do some amazing synth stuff too.
If you're old enough, you may remember when home organs like Lowrey and Wersi were all the rage. You would turn on the rhythm and play the melody with one finger while the organ chugged away doing fills and bass. They fell out of fashion, but arrangers are the compact versions of these dinosaurs. Real musicians looked at them with horror, and you will never see a music video with the keyboard player using a Lowrey organ--or a Genos, Tyros or PSR either. The only professional music case is people performing solo at places like Weddings, churches and restaurants, who need to be able to simulate a full band in real time to accompany them. But, in an actual band, these accompaniment features would be useless and and unnecessary. So, If you're looking to play keyboard parts in a band, record individual tracks in a DAW or make your own sounds, than buy a synth/workstation. If you always play solo and need the instrument to simulate a band--whether at home or at a gig, than an arranger might fit your needs. Just get a good one, so it doesn't sound too cheap and cheesy. Ironically many professional and experienced musicians find arrangers difficult to play, as they are used to playing complex solo keyboard parts--not with controlling the instrument as it accompanies them through a song. Pianists especially dislike them as they keyboards are usually shortish and very light, whereas you can buy nicely weighted full 88-key workstations.
As someone who plays arranger, I would tend to agree with you, for the most part. However, even Korg's newest flagship arranger now comes in an 88 key, weighted keyboard! I also would not be embarrassed to play an arranger keyboard in a band, but you are correct, no accompaniment tracks. But, this isn't what they are designed for, and the newer ones, for the one or two person groups, are most certainly up to the challenge. Look at the stuff from the new Korg PA5X.
Great to see you back woody! I was told, by my former keyboard and piano teacher, that a keyboard, has more control over backing styles rather than sounds, and the synths you have full control over sounds, and midi features. Workstations to me are a blank canvas you have the full world at your finger tips, with a very large sequencer and audio features, so you can built tracks from scratch etc, where with arranger you are sort of a one man band. I have owned a Arranger keyboard in the passed Technics Kn1000, and the sounds on that were fantastic. I now have a kurzweil kn2600 XS, that's used as a home piano, due to the cost and that i can load more pianos into it. All depends on what you want or need as you say, have the best of both worlds is where its at. Some synths don't have the sequencer just the sounds, so you can have an entry level on and a nice arranger on the stand with it. Id love to change my casios for two arrangers, Different sizes though, and have the kuzweil for piano. All have one thing in common, and that's they are bags of fun!
Synthesizers are the electric equivalent of an acoustic instrument, arrangers usually imitate instruments (romplers) and that is a big difference. There are keyboards that combine both, but in my opinion, arrangers are overshadowed by PCs with DAWs,
Arranger = One Man Band. Complete control on the instrument. (Arranged tons of instruments in a performance mode.) Synthesizer = Composing in Studios. Complete control on the sound. (Synthesizes or Mnaipulates sound accordingly.) You can use vice versa, depending on the situations.
Great overview, Woody - you hit all the important points. I'm a home player who loves arranger keyboards - They're fun, fast, and you don't have to have a whole band to sound good. I agree that they can sound cheesy, but lucky for me - I love cheese 😁
hi cindy, as i once said, one man's chesse is another man's yoghurt (or woman's, sorry!) :D the one point I should have emphasised is that whilst musicians sometimes hate the sound of arrangers and turn their nose up, the general public absolutely love it! and that's probably most important.
First I thought: "What a strange comparison!" But after watching your video I have to admit that it actually makes sense somehow for many people. You really nailed that unusual topic!
Out of the frustration of sequencers short measure count, usually 4 or less, and lack of variety in time signatures and control, plus the awkward use of song mode to extend sequences.... I gave up trying to make them work for composing music. The pattern sequencers on arranger keyboards are the most powerful sequencers on the market. So I ended up buying an arranger just for the pattern sequencer, and then erasing the sequences and building my own from a blank. Then using MIDI outputs from the arranger I control other music devices in clock and notes. A single keyboard therefor cannot do the whole job of composing original music and sound design. No arrangers offer deep sound design or analog oscillator options, but through MIDI we can run synths, other groove boxes and samplers. So now I have an arranger as my centerpiece for MIDI clock and pattern sequencing, but most all other sound comes from my great sounding analog and digital synths/samplers/groove boxes. I can loop sequences as long as 32 measures, and of course the entire 8 track sequences can immediately follow a chord change with pitch. This chord change allows me complete freedom to improvise my custom pattern sequences in different progressions. The thrill of your own pattern sequences made specifically for each song creation is incredible. This type of composing through intense pattern sequencing, sound design, and effects design....then with the sequences complete....I unleash my creative spirit with any chord progression I desire and melody. Huge orchestrations are possible with hundreds of variables available through a studio of instruments all played on the fly and recorded in one take. (my organ skills of playing two handed and two footed, also helps immensely when performing on the fly).
Great comments ! I think you do what I wanted. I play jazz piano, but very often I need to play alone, and I would like to have a bass and drums. Do you have suggestions for budget arrangers (I love weighted keys... but let's see)
@@marcosquitopianolounge6350 There is a new arranger reasonably priced at $700.00, it is the Medeli AKx10. It is 61 keys non-weighted (synth action) but has MIDI in and out 5pin. So if you have a digital piano with MIDI outputs (5pinDIN) then you can place the arranger on top your piano and control the arranger entirely from your piano. I have another channel where I did a video on this with a Korg MicroArranger and a 88weighted key Yamaha digital piano: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aS2cp7dGi-4.html . The MicroArranger is a great arranger for about $500.00 but is out of production and will have to find one on the used market. After my suggested keyboards the price goes way up, with the next good arranger a Korg PA700 for about $1700.00. What I call good arrangers are the ones where you can edit the instruments and create your own style from a blank and has a good style creator operating system and display to make style creation easy as possible...and have MIDI in and outputs in 5pinDIN connectors. Without any editing controls for sound and style there are hundreds of choices, but the cheezy sound of most the styles would get old fast to a master keyboardist.
I have just given away my Medeli AKx10, there were many problems that I wrote to the company, but they did not fix any of them. So now my arranger that is working well is the Roland E-A7, but not that cheap. @@marcosquitopianolounge6350
Ciao Woody!!! Thank you for this valuable video and information. I know nothing about pianos/keyboards. My 21 year old AUTISTIC step daughter, who can miraculously sing very well, is learning to play the keyboard. She's somehow, composed on her own 14 songs with melodies and chords on a Yamaha PSR6700 that my sister gave to me in the mid 1990s. I am thinking of buying my step daughter the latest Yamaha GENOS Arranger. It will cost me an arm and a leg with much sacrifice. But, after watching THIS video, I've made up my mind. Thank you and God Bless YOU for taking the time to teach us! I was going berserk watching countless videos talking about the GENOS, but after watching your video, it was clear that what my step daughter needs at this moment is an Arranger .
so glad I can help! yes, the genos is a small fortune, but remember you can get the same sounds and features in the SX900, for half the price, and with built-in speakers which your step daughter and family would appreciate I think.
If the CASIO MZ-X500 hadn't suffered from the weak CPU and the stale natural sounds and unreasonable decisions of the developers, it would have been the perfect hybrid between workstation and arranger. But unfortunately the CPU couldn't keep up with the possibilities and there was no MIDI clock IN. The concept was promising and exactly what I was looking for. Up to 24 Layers of Sounds with accompeniments and arrangements, arpeggios and 16 programmable Pads. Today I use a Korg Pa1000 and a Krome EX in parallel, and I still don't have all the options that the MZ-X500 had (velocity sensitive pads)
@@iannmiller AIX is nice but still away from other known brands. Casio really needs to put new, good and fresh recorded natural samples into their Keyboards. They can do synthesizers, but natural sounds are still not good to compete with the 1000€ Class.
@@pcpanikMusik maybe you should try the CASIO WK-3300 ... If you edit the presets enough... Maybe you'd be surprised the quality of the sounds you can get.... It's a kind of synth there...
@@octavio-blues-sound3022 I have a Korg Pa1000 and a Krome EX. I don‘t think that a WK3300, which is a really old entry-level key, could be compared to them.
Also the reason Arrangers are usually more plastic, is to make them lighter for lugging around. They can typically be 20lbs lighter than their workstation equivalents.
I don't agree fully on this. If you take the top dogs of both Korg and Yamaha Arrangers they are considerably more rugged constructed than the most common "Cheaper" synth models. But yes both the Yamaha Genos and the new Korg Pa5x is Extremely expensive, and the "Synth Workstation" is a dieing breed as the companies asume you are hooking it up to a computer anyway that with a DAW have much better editing than what you have on a socalled "Workstation". Only Korg and Kurzweil still makes Workstations. So in very few years the Workstation will propably be gone for good. Only the Arranger boards will have the ability to do everything without a computer, and then again you often need a computer program if you want to make your own custom sounds on those boards like the Genos that have onboard memory for loading user samples. I have an old Yamaha P9000Pro which was a 76 key version of the PSR9000. And even it has plastic top, the base chassis is metal and the keybed is the same as in Yamaha's top synth models with aftertouch, and this has carried on ever since in the Tyros models and the Genos. They are practically just as sturdy as a Motif or Montage even the Tyros lina also had plastic top. Even the Pa5X have 76keys with aftertouch (which the Nautilus dont have). And to compare, a Modx have just as horrible a keybed as Yamahas intro PSR models. The P9000 even had sampling and a simple loop editor onboard if you mounted 1-2 sticks of memory (max 32Mb). Problem is who have 34.000 DKr for a Genos or 36.000 for a Pa5x. (3-5k) $ 😒 But they are lovely instruments and you can spent just as much time trying out arrangements and sounds as a Workstation. And the editing of sounds has become much deeper today compared to nearly nothing editable in the late 80's. Synths stil have more editing of the sounds tho
@@mrdali67 I guess you interpreted my post to mean I was saying Arrangers feel "cheaper", which is absolutely not the case. I've had a couple. I've had ancient ones, like the PSR-800, and a couple of Korg ones, i3 (which was just an X3 with arranger function), Pa1X Pro (which was just a Triton with arranger function), and my current one, the Tyros 4 (a Motif in Arranger function). I've had the Tyros for over 10 years now, and it does NOT feel cheap. I loaded it up with 512mb ROM, and painstakingly loaded it up with my favorite sampled sounds from the M1, 01/W, SY99, Kurz PC2, etc etc. When I used to play live, after the concerts, people used to come up to me to inspect this thing. They could not believe a "home" looking keyboard could sound so good. So yeah, I never meant for it to sound that arrangers are "cheap". I've been tempted to get a Genos, but I don't play live anymore, and Tyros 4 still sounds pretty damn good for noodling around.
@@mrdali67 The 9000 Pro was the ONLY board I every played where the layered strings on piano were absolutely perfect. They didn't hang on and faded out just perfect while playing piano riffs. Amazing. Could never duplicate on any other board.
@@solojim Ya, many earlier multitimbral synths or arrangers just had a general damper pedal setting. It’s vital to be able to set damper on/off on different parts to make a usefull piano/strings stack sound. Think the psr 8000/9000 was the first arrangers to have that level of control of each sound part. I remember the last firmware of the 9000 was groundbreaking when you got the ability to split not just the lower-upper, but also the upper 1-2-3 into their own zone. Look at the p9000. For it’s time the Max 65Mb sample memory was pretty groundbreaking for its time, and today Yamaha squeezed the available sample memory of the Genos a bit in v. 2. Why are they making both the montage/Modx/Genos so close ended. Memory is so cheap today. Why not have a way of adding a 16-64gb memory board like they had with the memory boards for the Tyros/Motif line. Just about every Company does that today, Korg, Yamaha, Nord - which some users say listens to what custommers want still having just 1gb for the Piano / sample part. It would cost so little to add the posibilities of a memory upgrade and they would earn more selling those kits.
They serious need to up their game with synths today. Computers have used 64 bit OS’es for the most part of the last 2 decades. Korg never bothered recompiling their Oasys software to 64 bit. And most “hardware” boards are still limited with the same 32bit software that is limited to around 3.2gb adressing space. After all, just about everything today is software limited only. Only hardware limitations left today is cpu, memory and ammount of a/d/a i/o. Every thing else is just software and the fact if it runs on standard of the shelf components like the Kronos or some custom hardware.
I own both an arranger and a workstation. Both shine in different situations. When I'm gigging with a vocalist duo for a wedding and I'm the sole accompanist, my Yamaha arranger works best here. It makes me sound like a one man band. When I'm with my other musician friends in an ensemble or band where I don't need the auto accompaniment and I want portability and weird noises, my Korg Kross does the job here.
Arranger in short is a one man band instrument workstation in short is a solo instrument + sound design machine that can give you great option to get a great sound using many syntheses module like FM / adaptive / physical modeling... Etc.. In the end, you will need both.
It truly falls down to the needs of the player and style of music they play. Arrangers workstations have a major strongpoint, and that’s “out of the box” playability. Arranger players “statistically” tend to do less in-depth editing of patches/tones, and you’ll often find this reason is due to buyer demographic. Manufactures tend to cater to a specific age group with arrangers as well, and the data they collect shows “out of the box” playability is something this demographic wants. Synth Workstation players tend to be younger, and are likely to utilize the many editing features found on a workstation too, and it’s not to say only the young crowd buys these, but for every semi or pro arranger workstation sold to someone under the age of 35.., the synth workstation sales numbers more than triple that to the same age group. When it comes to song composition they BOTH are very good for song creation, and honestly in terms of simplicity, the arranger workstation is by far the easiest to work with due to the auto accomp, and the ability to create a style from scratch. Arranger workstations are primarily suited for more traditional styles of music too.., even though they can produce more modern music, the sequencer and sound palette are really best tailored for traditional styles. Workstations used to be all about electronica too., as I remember a time when if you wanted good quality acoustic instruments.., you bought an arranger workstation. That all has changed now, and synth workstations have high quality acoustic instruments, but still fall behind the arranger in terms of simplify for song creation in that area. I used to sell keyboards and pianos years ago (been playing for over 40 years myself). I’ve owned everything from budget to high end in both the arranger and synth workstation market. I would always tell people that if you like both types of keyboards, and want the best of both worlds.., then the Korg PA series is your best choice. Korg PA models are literally a hybrid workstation because of the amount of editing you can do. Even the Yamaha Genos doesn’t hold a candle to what the Korg can do in terms of detailed patch editing, sample editing, ect. A Korg MicroArranger has more detailed editing than a Genos.., that’s not an exaggeration either. If you can afford it., I feel owning both an arranger and synth workstation is ideal.
Agree with you on the Korg PA being a hybrid arranger workstation. I own a Yamaha arranger and wish to have the flexibility of assigning key and velocity zones on my parts. Short of buying a dedicated workstation keyboard, the Korg PA series has very comprehensive editing option. I don't mind owning a second compact keyboard so I went with a Korg Kross.
@@PakBudiTarigan In my experience, if both are on the same price, the arranger usually has the better sound quality. For example between Yamaha MX61 and Yamaha PSR-SX600, the SX has better quality piano and acoustic instruments. Both are priced around $1000. The arranger also was recently released last year, while there's still no updated model for the 2012 MX61. For Korg, the PA300 arranger sounds slightly better than the Kross (synth workstation) based on what I heard. Both are priced at around $900. I'm mostly comparing acoustic instruments like piano and strings. If you're looking for synth sounds like pads and leads, I find synth workstations has way better quality and you can customize these too.
I have sx900 and mod x6 I have great fun on the 900 and I get more in the way of freedom to create on modx6 both fantastic yet totally different boards.
Additional points raised in the comments and stuff I overlooked - ► Whilst many musicians dislike arranger styles, the general public absolutely lap it up (which is perhaps most important because we generally play for the public) ► Arrangers are fabulous for live performers like one-man-bands, troubadours, entertainers ► Arrangers have simpler operating systems, with clearer GUI and larger fonts ► Arrangers are better for ethnic and oriental music, with some models specializing in these styles ► Workstation synths are usually extremely complex, complicated and somewhat intimidating to use and program
I see arrangers like fast food. It doesn't require a lot of technical knowledge and you can get started making music quickly. But it's hard to do in-depth editing beyond what you get in the box. Workstations are like a homemade meal. It takes a lot more work and knowledge but you have full control of your food's flavor.
I found arrangers indispensable for learning to play keyboard as an amateur home musician. I wasn't coming out of the gate as a newbie trying to shred prog rock lead solos so the arranger was perfect for learning chords and melodies from top 40 hits. The arranger is like the acoustic guitar for people who aren't guitar people.
I used to have a Yamaha XS7 and now my main keyboard is a Tyros 4. I find the Tyros so immediate to choose and layer sounds and get a song going. The XS7 could probably do most of it (and more flexible in it’s sound editing) but it seemed more work to get there, which kinda took the fun out of it. I’m not a professional and I basically play for fun (plus a monthly local open mic night where I get to do a couple of songs in public) and the Tyros is definitely more immediate and fun! I think it’s a shame that arrangers are saddled with a cheesy “home organ” kind of reputation, as they are much more versatile than that.
i agree that arrangers tend to be easier to get basic stuff done, the OS is a bit simpler. i regret not ever owning a tyros myself, might be fun to pickup an older model.
@@WoodyPianoShack Go for a Korg PA4X. Now the PA5X has just arrived, I am sure they will be some PA4X bargains. I own the Motif XS8 and a Korg PA4X. The PA4X doesn't have built in speakers although there is an optional PAS Speaker and Keyboard is a solid build not made to go on the road with a performer. As others have said the Arrangers are great one man bands. My next musical journey, I think is with the Fantom 8 and a Juno X.
. PhilW222... Your right... And most of cases you can record a song on then in 16 tracks, modify and record the presets as a kind o "simpler" Sinth and... If you don't want any accompaniment at all, you may easily pass it over... And Also, you can only use your own edited sounds and ... They may be in much cases really impressive.... As maybe some high price Synthesisers some times... I think those critics are in much cases some kind of snobbery......
Phil..I agree with your comment completely.. I have owned several keyboards and have settled on tyros 3 and cheaper more portable Casio CTX 5000.. I love the versatility of an arranger and the Tyros styles are just brilliant..
arranger keyboards will get you started , help you play in time & develop your keyboard skills , if you're not an accomplished player.It's like playing with a backing band. But if you are intending to create your own arrangements , outside of the normal styles , then go for a synth/workstation. this has been my journey .
KORG PA 1000 would be a good hybrid because it allows very good sound editing even on osc-level. Unfortunately it lacks a good arppegiator (the KAOSS pad doesnt count). Also the Interface is a bit dated. The Yamaha however lacks the detailed sound editing abilities. My wish would be a the easy interface from the yamaha PSRs combined with the editing abilities from Korg.
So, which type made your family get up & dance around? I'm after information here; not puzzles! My 'Guess' -- it was an Arranger. Oh, BTW, when you say Arrangers are not well-built -- you obviously have not played or owned a Korg Pa-5X!
I have both and this is how I see it: the arranger keyboard is my orchestra that I'm conducting and the synth is my instrument factory where I design and build new instruments when needed.
I remember when I first started thinking about getting a keyboard. The marketing of workstations and arrangers is very similar to a beginner and it's hard to differentiate which direction to go in at first. For me, once I had actually played on a couple in a shop I realised the difference. That may sound crazy if you've always known about keyboards, but I had no idea. If I wasn't the kind of person who likes to research something to death before committing, I could easily have made a mistake so this video may well save a few people from expensive mistakes- especially as arranger keyboards tend to depreciate in price a lot faster than synths and workstations! Also, please never shave the beard off again!
I see arrangers like fast food. It doesn't require a lot of technical knowledge and you can get started making music quickly. But it's hard to do in-depth editing beyond what you get in the box. Workstations are like a homemade meal. It takes a lot more work and knowledge but you have full control of your food's flavor.
certainly when it comes to editing sounds, yes! what I didn't mention is that arrangers also allow you to build your own styles so doesn't have to be readymade fast food! :)
v3xman ... the comment you made above I liked better; that it depends on the situation. I would add "preferences". In the following I can only hope you are blessed with humor😉 And now you judge keyboards "fast food" (the worse kind of food? For beginner?). Coming from electronic organ (THE ultimate Performer-Machine!!!), I played every keyboard instrument ... excepted Accordeon. I don't get this pumping checked😅 Criticism is one thing ... judgement another. The author of this video gave his best to point out advantages and disadvantages. To me the topic is finished with this. And then I read many judgements here. Hm🤔 Btw I have a MODX 8 now. And what a surprise... it has disadvantages... many of them. Let's take the MODX/Montage: extraordinary sound! Extraordinary flexibility! Then a Wersi Organ: extreeeeeeme performance possibilities ... hands, feet, one hand playing on TWO manuals and simular tricks, we learned. Also not perfect! Problem: you need a moving company for live performances. AND ... the price. AND despite the astronomical price: not the slightest touch of the sound of a MODX! Also Interesting fact, you all possibly don't know: the organ has no theoretical polyphony-limit. Keyboards are imho somewhere in between. The bet stands! You with your MODX, bring with your Laptop and all tracks filled in the DAW ... and me with a Wersi (which I no longer have) ... let's compete😉 The camera on my manuals ... you will look pretty old😅 Despite I am not a master skilled professional player like you; the audience believes to hear 10 instruments I am playing the same time. Btw: a piano player could look down on a special finger-technique I'm having. Makes no sense on a piano; but on an organ; and a player with small hands. No judgment please! We learned such things! Expedient technique! On the other side your special Montage-sounds and the 16 tracks of your DAW ... I myself will look pretty old😪 ... perhaps your polyphony limit will help me out again😉 Another example: some people call themselfs "professionals" and judge the keybed/keys of an organ as "cheap". Perhaps on Keyboards, but surely not to generalize. They don't know, what they are talking about. The special design, the wheightless construction ... sophisticated developed! Not cheap ... expedient. And in contrary to pianos there never died an elephant to build the keys😉 Kidding aside. Let's leave the bubble and quick judgements. I can't see any objective argument for a final judgement which instrument is "better" or "worse". A perfect machine is not yet built. I personally am not the mouse/touchscreen/DAW-player. I like the (physical) action and playing much as possible by my own hands/feet. An organ is MY thing. And even if I am not a good player, I reject all judgements from people where I am standing on the chicken ladder😉 Depends on the instrument I am sitting infront.
I was having this conversation today with someone who (Like you) has a korg nautilus and why I chose not to buy the Montage 7. He says that it does everything and I that's not what I wanted. I said I prefer to have Sythersizors with a DAW as a Hub. On the Motage 7 you can do entire song or album just with the single unit with nothing else. The only single unit work station I'd be interested in would be a MPC Live2.
The other day I saw a video review of an arranger where the idea for the video was going into it thinking it was stupid and a waste of money. But by the end of the video the dude was obsessed with it and wanted to buy his own because he had to return the review sample. Some of them have so much connectivity and control over the sounds that you can create sounds or make music in ways you never thought of before. They aren’t really meant for studio recording type use, but in that setting it seems the feature rich models shine. I’m actually convinced that some of the really weird songs that work but make no sense to me were made this way. Now I wonder if they will ever make a modular synth arranger.
sadly... right now it boils down to availability and set up... my choice would be one of the korg pa 700 arranger keyboards, as they seem more of a hybrid between the two types... but they don't seem to be available any time in the near future here in Canada. My local music store got in a Yamaha psr sx-700, and I snapped it up. Luckily I also found a yamaha reface dx, if I want to "synth" around.. and I've figured out how to connect it via Midi to my Yamaha p515. (and with synths it's very easy to get caught up in modifying sounds instead of playing) As a newer keyboard player, it's also very easy to go down a rabbit hole of choices... so far. the sx 700 is a ton of fun to play, it's got a lot of features but they feel very accessible and I spend more time playing than fiddling.
Thanks Woody. I just bought a psr-e473 from Yamaha. There is so much you can do with it. In the end it is how creative one is with limited resources. It has MIDI audio and is multi-timberal. Two DSP inserts. 820 sounds. What more could one ask for for $370
And if youre using Cubase the high end Yamaha Keyboards are very easy and good to connect to your DAW as a hybrid of Synth and Arranger. (Im using Logic) 😁
I personally cannot stand arrangers even though they are very popular in other cultures such as arabic music. I always associate them with the basic yamaha and casio keyboards we all had as a kid and that was used in music class at school. Synths have much more power, better build and should really be classed as an instrument in their own right.
Synthesizers are best for live performances with real bend. They have sound that is more advanced, go better through live space than arrangers that have round sound and design for playing with styles, more studio like sound.
I'm still dreaming about the ultimate Arranger Keyboard with full synthesizer workstation capabilities without any compromises, so you've everything you ever need in a box. But such a device will never exist, I bet.
I want to get the KORG PA5X strickly for its third part oriental middle eastern sets to use in my daw. Some people say Kronos is better as far as sound qualirt goes. Im trying to justify spending 4500$ on a pa5x just for the sounds
@@WoodyPianoShack not for the pa5x . Turks make third party sets that has to he registered to the serial number of the keyboard but no one has made a official set yet. Most of the sets are converted from pa4x if they arent locked with the serial.
The first round allocations of the Fantom 0's seems to have gone to a younger generation of influencers. Some provide good demos, but I wouldn't call any of what I've seen so far "reviews." All pros and no cons. Well hopefully Roland will send you one for review - you did such a great job throughly covering the Roland FA series.
Most of the time I too get myself playing my PSR SX 700 than my synth workstations. Probably just turning it on and it's readiness to jam right away might be the reason. While on Synths, first it's patching then tweaking and on and on...
Now your making me think about the psx900 just because seeing you make so much fun on it... but I already have the modx and nautilus and it's getting crowded on my workspace :p
Arrangers are like playing with a band, whilst workstations are like composing for the band and playing each part yourself! Way more work, but more flexibility.
Nicely Explained Woody .... It's always a good idea to visit a music shop and try out every keyboard in the shop ....before you spend money .... Personally... arranger keyboards are brilliant instant fun to mess around with .... Synths are bit more complicated to use and you can kinda get lost inside the synth creating sound instead of playing it ... Still good fun , brilliant upload ...big thumbs flying high from a galaxy far far away called Ireland ☘️🇮🇪🍻☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️
Fantastic Video Woody. When you look at the montage of clips it is amazing how many tunes, classical to rock , to cheese that you can play and solo on freely. I'm a synth man but I need to sharpen my skills drastically. (I'm trying hard). Great content. Thank you.
I owned th korg E 50 L and the Yamaha psr E- 473 that are quit good I just purchased the Yamaha SX 600 at really good price at Black Friday for around $430 new off course in Japan still waiting for it I saw many reviews on the SX 600 I really like it you think I did a deal to buy it !
I have a Tyros 4. I used to have a Pa1X Pro. For live gigging, arrangers are indispensable if you're a one man band, as I was. But yes they have serious limitations. Mine is able to edit sounds, and even load samples with the Tyros Voice Editor software, and the optional ROM expansion card, BUT even then it's very limited. I wish someone would come up with a workstation with Arranger function.
Great video Woody. You must be a LUCKY MAN that your wife let you have so much toys, LIKE ME ?!! :) Even I have a Yamaha C-5 6'7" Acoustic Grand Piano, and other good keyboards, basses and acoustic drums that I use to play in multiple bands, One-Man-Band keyboards are still so much fun to play by oneself. :) I just wish Yamaha would possibly make a Genos, PSR-X or PSR-S series Upgrade Module or even a whole control panel linked thru USB or Upgradable Firmware Module, that can upgrade/replace my older Yamaha CVP Series mini grand arranger piano (that cost over $10k new) to a more recent sounding one ?!! Even Roland or Korg could consider making a "Yamaha CVP Series Replacement Module" like one would replace a Guitar/Bass Pickups & Pre-Amp ?! :) After all, these arranger keyboards are computers, so it's just like upgrading your Gaming Computers components; without replacing your Desktop Case (my Polish Ebony CVP Series grand piano case still looks so nice and polished like my Big Grand), Speakers (the CVP Series has a powerful speakers system that you can FEEL like playing on a grand, unlike plugging into a PA system which I have too), Keyboard & Mouse (3 pedals of my CVP grand) ?! :) Wouldn't that be great for their business and the environment ?! :)
Even though I used to be of the opinion tha arranger keyboards are not just for a one man band player and that you can use one as a sound module arranger keyboards are not intended for music production unless your a songwriter recording a demo but even a Yamaha PSR-SX700 is a bit expensive if you don't want auto accompaniments even though I very nearly or could have bought a Tyros 5 last October but thanks to unforseen circumstances I couldn't justify even forking out on a used Tyros 5. At least for music production if you buy a workstation you are paying only for features that are useful but in the end I decided to stick with Halion and I now have Halion 7. It is also a bit misleading when companies like Yamaha and General Music/GEM market their flagship arranger keyboards as a "Digital Workstation" which can also be confusing.
The 08 is the 8 lighter a bit smaller and a slightly more cramped interface. You’ll also miss the VPiano which is not in the Fantom-0 series, but in the full fledge. Other than that, you can watch any review on the fantom, you’ll get virtually the same thing other than differences in the front and back panel.
@@godzil42 Also no Aftertouch and less memory (I think). And you will have to pay for the synth expansions which were free for owners of the "big" Fantoms.
@@willjosef8087 The way the memory is handled on the Fantom is a bit weird, I think they have the exact same amount. As for the model expansion, don't know either, Roland Cloud show them as free download for me..
If it uses "Styles" and it's got buttons for Intro, Variations, Fill, Ending (or Outro), and allows you to play chords in the left hand with 1 finger and/or some other smart fingering, then it's an arranger. Korg befuddled many with their release of the "i3 Music Workstation" in 2020 because by function it was clearly a arranger. Maybe they called it a workstation because it doesn't have speakers - I don't know! Most online music stores now place this i3 in the "arranger" category, not in the "workstation" category.
Hey Woody! I just stopped in to say how much I enjoy your channel! You make everything enjoyable and clear 👍 I use a Korg PA4X76 Arranger for performing and as my sound engine. I connect a Novation 61SL Mk3 to it and combined it gives you the best of both worlds. Thank you so much for your amazing videos!
After thought, whats with all of the Bizzel are gyrations of your body? Not necessary, It’s just really weird. You move the bender and your whole body follows thru by bending. It’s just odd. I can’t finish this video
Here's the difference.... I owned a PSR for five years. I owned a MODX synth for three months. I spent most of my waking hours figuring out how to use this synth, and with tons of research. Today I spent the entire day figuring out how to add a trill to a marimba sound. And I still don't have it. I'm a busy person and wasted A LOT of time on this synth, and I have nothing to show for it. I unpacked my PSR arranger and had songs ready to go. I want to return the MODX. It's just a big headache. It's good for producers though who want to create different sounds. I just play cover songs, and hate 80s music.
Great video Woody, my same conundrum. I like both, but have been vasilating between Korg Nautilus or the Yamaha MODX, my only bummer is they don't have the full arrangement capability of the arrangers. I love the plug and play and being a piano player I still have my CP4 that I play with my arranger...It's just too much fun. Thanks again for your content.
Korg Nautilus isn't a good investment. Combine your cp4 with Modx. It's a lovely set up. Prior to replacing mine (cp4) with CP88, I used the same. Even though I studied comp/arrangement - I don't like dedicated arranger boards/hybrids and don't use them. So I'll defer to Woody on it; and will be interested to see the reply.
The arranger keyboard is like a bearded Woody: it looks cool straight from the factory without needing fancy bells and whistles, but its full potential is reached very quickly. The synthesizer workstation is like a beardless Woody: it can feel rather raw and simple at first, but when you take time to customize its outfit, its awesomeness will explode straight into your face!
I'm not sure if this is true, only synth workstations can come as rack modules. For example the very Korg Kronos, exists with keyboard or rack. I've never seen an arranger with a rack form factor. Arrangers must have everything for every style and sound and obviously you can't expect a great Bösendorfer sample in one of these (high end digital pianos do that better). But I think they're a good asset when you want to try ideas, so arrangers give you arrangements (duh) quickly, and also they're nice for "one person bands" who perform live. I've seen quite nice, not cheesy, performances pushing the limits of an arranger! Anyways, it's weird how keyboard instruments can be so confusing lol. At least we pianists have an easier election hehehe...
I have used both types for many years, professionally and for fun. But synthesisers like the MODX are really on a different planet if you want to be original and truly creative, because you can almost infinitely vary the sounds, some of which are very impressive, especially when combined. Arranger keyboards are quite difficult to avoid sounding cheesy, even with careful playing. My MODX can with deft editing produce orchestral and other sounds that virtually match the most expensive sample libraries, but you also NEED to have a DAW (Cubase, Studio One, Logic etc) to get the best out of it.
Truly creative? That’s just elitism. It’s cool to have fun playing with sound, but that’s not more creative than playing with arrangements, it’s just a different type of creativity. The attention is focused on different aspects of music making.
Most creative are workstations. Genos is much better for studio than MODX. synthesizers are best for live performances with real bend. They have sound that is more advanced, go better through live space than arrangers that have round sound and design for playing with styles, more studio like sound.
I think both types of keyboard have their pros and cons both soundwise and in terms of features. If I was well off I would have both types of keyboards, as I know even the Yamaha PSR-S and PSR-SX have very high quality sound maybe not as good as Tyros or Genos but still better than the entry level models ( I'm not sure weather or not entry level keyboards count as an arranger ). If I do decide to buy something more up to date than my Yamaha PSR-295 in the next 2-4 years then it will be a question of what I can afford but as I have previously pointed out even many of the sounds in that PSR-S970 are the same samples that I'm currently using in Halion and as I like those sounds so much maybe I should consider getting a hardware keyboard with those sounds as a safety net. I'm sure you could probably get an S970 for under a grand if your lucky, an MODX6 is also not out of the question as those are also under a grand, it might not be quite as good as a Montage but you get what you pay for.
Manufacturers are missing an opportunity. Provide professional sound (already possible with something as small as a Roland SonciCell), and make the backing arrangement function more open - let customers download the (better) styles they actually want and make them editable. Also, include a pattern/linear sequencer to capture a performance so it can be edited after the fact in a DAW. Though, if manufacturers are demanding the high prices they can for upper-end arrangers, there is no incentive for them to include what I've described.
great ideas, actually we have something like that, as you probably know you can create your own styles, and both yamaha and 3rd party developers can distribute, sell, giveaway their own styles.
Hey Woody! I think the terms you're looking for are "Sunday Service/Bread and Butter". These are products for the keyboardist market, separate from the synthesizer market where the desire is to turn to and express yourself through an individual instrument. This to say that the major line is between these markets, not between the products you demonstrate. Anything with a screen will have multiple synth engines, lots of menus and buttons, and most will be very little about sound creation and expression, or at least will make that tedious, which in itself limits expression.
As of recently listening to Korg EK-50 & Yamaha PSR-E473 (both under €400) and do sound nice. On monitors via line outs they can sound as a sample based synthesizer. They have come a long way, yet in this pricebracket is truly amazing!
Loved the sound of that last keyboard as an arranger. But I am looking for something to create modern dance music on. The trouble is that many are jack of all trades and master of none. The MODX+ sounds great, has that nice multi-layered arpeggiator, expressiveness, really nice synths but a TERRIBLE sequencer. The Fantom 0 range has a more limited arpeggiator, better drum selection, easier to operate sequencer and pattern layering plus nice sampling options. But the sounds don't sound quite as expressive to my ears. Not sure about other options other than groove box trackers and synth only options like the Roland System 8 or cheaper Arcturia Minifreak etc. Going full DAW plus VST's and seperate boxes (drum machines, boutique synths) just gets more complex and expensive. For someone who just wants the basics but with a modern sound in mind I am finding it all a bit confusing. I have dabbled with older DAWS like Frootyloops and VST's. Back in the 90's I used an Akai S900 sampler, 8 track tape deck (bouncing was fun lol), Yamaha TX81Z rack, Yamaha DX7 and Roland Juno-106.
I think the whole video is summed up perfectly from 11:40 to 12:15. IMHO both are great for different reasons. Ego (& snobbery) can be a barrier sometimes.
This was posted nine months ago, and a couple of changes since then. I own an older Korg PA800, having previously had a Korg PA-80 and a Korg iX300. Yamaha has had arranger keyboards out for decades, as well as home organs with auto accompaniment, and other manufacturers, Wurlitzer, Lowry, Baldwin, and others. The difference between synth and arranger, or 'portable keyboard' at the time was huge. In 1993, Korg entered the market and really upped the game with the introduction of the original i3, the 'i' meaning 'interactive.' Up until that point, if you selected a style, say a Bossa Nova, it didn't really matter what chord you played, you got the same rhythmic elements. The original i3 changed that. If you played a major chord, you got one rhythmic style, but if you played a minor chord, you got another, and if you played a diminished chord, you got a third. Different chord styles had different rhythmic elements to it. Korg also had all high-quality (for the day) sampled sounds, which even some synths were still using FM modulation or other types of sound generation. Korg forced Yamaha and Casio to seriously up their game. You are correct that top-of-the-line Arrangers are much more costly than a comparable (if you can use such a word) synth. Starting with the Korg PA4X and Yamaha Genos, and the Ketron Audya, you started having keyboards that produced near radio-ready sounds and backing tracks. The lines began to blur. Korg offered and has for quite some time, ever-increasing sound control. Even my PA800, which was introduced in 2006 has the ability to alter the built-in sounds with the attack, decay, release, and cutoff, as well as LFO control, and two reverb channels. Today's newly released PA5X goes far beyond those capabilities. As mentioned, the PA5X and the Genos both have the ability to have a mic input and effects for the singer. The new PA5X even goes beyond that to include the ability to input a guitar and run it through multiple effects, which include not only reverb, chorus, and delay, but even down to cabinet style and type, number of speakers, and multiple pedals, while still having the ability for the keyboard player to play his stuff and a singer, all at the same time. The PA5X has over 2,000 sounds, also, including General MIDI, Yamaha XG formatted sounds, Legacy Korg sounds, and the latest and greatest. Korg also includes something, going all the way back to my PA800, called DNC, or Defined Nuance Control. Pressing a button would give you something else, a trill, a run between two notes, switching maybe a trumpet to a mute. The PA3X really expanded those out, and today's PA5X has gone even further. But, as you said, the price has gone up. A Korg Nautilus 73, with a stand and such, is $2,700 USD, whereas a PA5X similarly configured (without speakers) is $5,100 and adds another $400 for the speakers. Note that since the PA3X, Korg has not included speakers on their flagship Arranger, and both the Yamaha Tyros and Genos also went the same way. Even as far back as the original i3, ix300, and several other Korg arrangers, they did not come with built-in speakers. Having said all of that, I took about a year's worth of piano lessons when I was a child. I was never very good at them, and I never learned to read or play bass clef. My father had a lot of Fake books around, and I learned to play chords (although never to animate them). So, when the first home organs that had some sort of auto-accompaniment came out, I was thrilled. Unable to buy one, but thrilled. A few decades later, I got my iX300 and from there, moving on. I hope in this upcoming year to be able to get a new 76 key PA5X. For me, kind of like your family, I want to be able to sit down and play, and to have it sound 'complete.' I do some sequencing, I can use the internal sequencer in the arranger, or use the chord sequencer, and I also use Band In A Box. So, I can do a lot of what a synth can do, and some of the stuff a synth can do that an Arranger can't, I'm not really interested in. Forty years ago, yeah, there was a ton of difference, a very wide gap. That gap, particularly at the high end of the spectrum, has closed significantly. The guy that wants to do a two or three piece gig, a high end Genos, PA3/4/5X, a singer and maybe a sax or guitar player, will be able to put together a really good gig. For him, the day that the singer and the instrumentalist aren't available, he can still go play gigs by himself (or herself) and still be viable (unless they have a voice like mine!)
Hi, I am planning on buying a keyboard and I am overwhelmed of what to choose between Korg i3 and Yamaha PSR EW425. Which should I choose in your perspective?
What matters the most is the quality of the keyboard itself or how comfortable it is to play, the same applies for a piano, organ, etc. I have the misfortune of very small hands. That's why i bought the KORG Microarranger a long time ago, 5 octaves (5.5 inches each). I struggle to play octaves on normal 6.5inch per octave keyboards (the majority of the keyboard/piano, organ markets...), it hurts my hands. With my Microarranger, i can play octaves now and reach a 10th interval. I'm praying for a full 88 key 5.5inch per octave midi controller in the future to buy, but it seems they don't exist or are pretty rare.
Very long space between sentences so I used high speed of play which make those filling perfomances even more useless. I like your information, but it is too fluffed.
yep, was pushing it a bit perhaps with all the playing, but at the same time, I think the sound and actual performances using these machines is just as important as the words.
Todays higher end arrangers have incredible tone. They are real modern jukeboxes. I would go with arranger just to get done some serious backing tracks for guitar noodling. And just fun for it. But where is the affordable limit? I found only highest end devices can sound really truely musical out of box. I will not drop names because maybe many of the higher priced can be shifted to sound great with minor adjusting.
ny solution to this is BUY a Roland BK7m arranger moduke and hook up your favorite synth as its master, like a yamaha Motif. Brings the 2worlds of synth /arranger together and also combine roland sounds(4 live parts) and Yamaha sounds on just 1 keyboard+module
At 14:28 Basically, “To all the synths (and workstations) I’ve loved before 🎶 that traveled in and out my door 🎶 I’m glad they came along 🎶 I dedicate this song …”
Question: If the Korg Kronos is a synthesizer workstation, what would you call a JD 800 or Korg M1? I'm so confused lol. Or let's put it this way....At what point does something like a dx7 turn into a workstation?
Often manufacturers use different words for the same thing because the other company has trademarked that word. This mixes me up. You can add entertainer keyboards and stagepianos to that list.
