"You can't solve a problem you can't pronounce" This is an extremely important statement that needs further discussion. I'm starting to wonder why there are no elders talking about this. In fact, this is in essence one of the problems we have within ourselves too! Our condition and standing amongst other communities keep deteriorating sharply. Piss and shit overflowing from our sewage systems on our streets where children play! Those who are lucky to get out live in the more affluent white areas. It is an unfolding disaster in slowmotion. While the government gives de klerk a state funeral. Thank you for this train of thought. It is very illuminating. Spread the fire!
These two elders are my inspiration . Fearless intellectuals , my teachers . I love them. Its a blessing that God have given them to us. For the host , continue the GOOD WORK. Africa is better ,will always be better as long as you are allowed to breath. We are always expecting the GOOD from you.
Dr Mpofu-Walsh, I have been waiting the discussion you'd have between these two sober individuals. Thank you for bowing to us and gracing us with this mature discussion. You're the future of debate in my humble opinion
And i love how Sizwe doesnt come with a predetermined narrative which is rare in the journalism of today.even though you do your own research before the interviews you allow your guests the platform to share different views and that is an art which goes with the rare ability to listen and exercise self-control.continue with your good work.
Aubrey Mashiqi is one wise man and when he talks listen and listen to understand not just to hear for he is way beyond wise. Muzi is just as wise, this is one interview I learnt a lot from on this whole Sisulu article. Thanks Sizwe
It seems as if some politicians like Sisulu are tired of being puppets and they are raising these issues so we can have open and honest dialogues. Thanks for posting this. The guilty is afraid which is why they’re being so defensive. Thanks to Sisulu
'You can't solve a problem you can not pronounce', this is so profound. We still have a long way to go towards achieving total freedom. Thank you for a very informative and roburst debate, a real eye opener. It's not yet Uhuru.
Clever? I may grant u that, whatever that means. But it should be said Mzansi is in trouble also because of clever people and their issues. I may not necessarily be referring to these particular "aboclever" but the injustice, the corruption, incompetence, state capture, greed are issues of the clevers. Oh they are good in spewing seemingly clever stories ngesingesi.
A brilliant, informative and eye opening debate. Thank you for this interview gentlemen and more-so, Dr Mpofu-Walsh for the never ending much needed platform on which these debates are had
This channel gives back hope, which deteriorates daily from how media approaches contemporary issues! I've seen journalists, analysts, Judges and more, that I grew up respecting, I've witnessed them assuming a position of dumbness to protect particular narratives, they don't care about their own reputation anymore, to some extent I end up not being sure whether they were indeed great in what they were doing or it was me failing to look beyond what they were giving me then. Let's take for instance, before there was unrest in July, Gogo Matshiqi told the media about the 4 storms that were coming, he even stated that they can be prevented(it's on record). But no one was interested in asking how can we prevent, or talking about measures to prevent them. Eventually they happened as we had been told, then we were told about instigators and terrorists, so as we are made to focus on one individual(Zandile Mafe) in the burning of the Parliament, I'm telling you now no one is care in perceiving the security department, be Mafe is guilt or not, but what gave access to him inside the premises! Indeed I get to revive in this platform.
I value what uGogo said about "a mixture of noble and ignoble." Simply put, theory must match practice. Now, let us quickly take stock on the lifestyles of those propagating for revolutionary activities that could alleviate poverty, can we honestly find individuals in their individual capacity, playing a meaningful role in investing their resources in those affected areas? I believe that ordinary people must stop and think very critically about the people who say things they know very well, that they will never commit to in their personal capacity.
'If we are truly committed to freedom of expression, as expressed in the constitution, well, we must know that, the fact that ideas hurt us or don't like them, cannot trump the right to frreedom of expression' - SC Sikhakhane
This debate answered Julius Malema's question about what ideology Mme Sisulu represents. I like how Sizwe was quickly babtised by the 2 Bishops. This is the way to our Solution.
You are bringing us content that will build us as the young generation that is invested in the socioeconomic & political matters that affects us daily . SC Sikhakhane is clear 👏🏿. Gogo Aubrey is deep and articulate his points meticulously that one leaves having to think deep .
Thank you for posting this. I always find hearing arguments from those I disagree with to be the most interesting. I strongly agree with the view that Sisulu has a right, just as anyone does, to voice her opinion and make a critique no matter how uncomfortable it might be. I found this discussion did throw up a few things that I think need greater clarification. Such as: what is a "just society" and how do we know when we have achieved that; what is an "African country" and what does it look like (therefore in what way is South Africa today not an African country); what of the view (critical of Sisulu) that her arguments are used as political cover for state corruption?
If you look at how the origin of the idea of the state being divided into judiciary,legislature and government,you realize we just adopted a shaped perception that is still a outcome of the establishment of South Africa post boer-english formation. Therefore we're not 'African'.
As a citizen of this country I am really tired of Politicians who sit in that Parliament and discuss about our lives without asking our views añ tax us a lot of money yet not meeting the needs of people. It is disgusting. If yoo want to be in politics. First ask the Creator of tbe universe about His Kingdom. These men will continue to fail this nation because their constitution is not Godly.
Thank you Sizwe. Very refreshing and objective arguments by all of you. Indeed why is everyone playing the man instead of confronting what she is saying in the article or even argue against what she is saying?
MaSisulu should have raised these issues within her party - she is a political appointment and should be putting the interest of the state first. She is not a free political agent. If she disagrees with her party's official policy and positions vis a vis the constitution and judiciary, then she has become estranged from her political home, chooses to bring her party in disrepute and sow division, and must leave to find a compatible political home.
@@_SMWX sadly I'm in disagreement I love your channel overall but this is dangerous territory given post colonial history and what Constitutions mean and why they exist - I made a 12 min video response ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oID3LTMCcgc.html
I hav been waiting to hear South Africans debate about world views, for a very long time I was worried that nobody sees nothing wrong with dis forced view upon Africans simply bec it is comfortable. Sizwe this is Good content chief👌
Please bring Dr. Lushaba as well. He is the best intellectual, in my view, in SA of the colonial thought. He would bring very good insight on this issue. By the way, i read the article, there was nothing wrong with it. I agree with the general point being made.
Sizwe please understand that this is the you we like. having talks about relevant ish bro. Sometimes i feel you refrain from being this Sizwe at times. Shout-out to you bro, keep the fire burning ma g
What makes it necessary to be raised now, ahhhw Gogo your wisdom its so refreshing to hear from you. We don't have a nation but a country wow Gogo, thank you Gogo
Amandla! Comrades, freedom of speech is not limited to someone opinion but all people are free to raise their opinions, minister Sisulu is within her rights to speak out her thoughts.
The fact is SA is still very much in the hands of the former colonialists & they use the judiciary, media & politicians to maintain their grip on this country.
You smoked some serious sh*t for breakfast!!! Do you really think black Africans are so stupid, malleable and spineless? Our current situation is due to the pathetic ANC's failure to govern!
Everyone has a bias, the so called “main stream” media and channels like yours in the ‘alternative media’ space you all work to a narrative that serves a niche. It’s for the truth seekers to listen to all sides, dissect the information and come up with their own judgement. The idea that any form of media main stream or alternative can curate the truth and report on it without bias is farcical.
Very intelligent discussion here. No constitution is sacrosanct.... Isn’t it a document drawn up by men and women? As such, pragmatism -in my opinion, should take precedence over dogmatism. From time to time constitution has to be adapted to changing environments. Progress can be measured over time and when these continue to be negative, there is need to challenge whatever the structures in place that bear upon that the course of progress or lack thereof.
I think the issue in our country is not the constitution, but the people leading the country. Like in this discussion we are generally talking about the constitution but no one is specific saying this and that clause prevent economic emancipation. Beside the question of land which very much exhausted and still no implementation. I think in my view, the problem is the ANC. Simple things like services like simple remove dustbins is a mission. Potholes, imagine now creating a stable economy.
Did you watch the whole video? I made it very clear which sections I was referring to. It’s possible to scrutinise both, it doesn’t have to be a binary choice between constitution and ANC.
@@_SMWX yes, I watched the whole video, and what I am referring to is the actual opinion piece penned by Lindiwe Sisulu is very ambiguous. Thus leaving this specific video to you or anybody to interprete what she meant. Which we may get it wrong or right. Perhaps what I expected from the minister is we(ANC government) have done a,b, and c successfully but clause x and Y prevented us to achieve d and e.
Hey Sizwe, can you invite advocate Muzi again to discuss the current constitutional question, especially as his one who believes it needs to be rewritten.
I hope we all keep in mind the fact that whether "Western or African" we ALL Then Need to be open to criticism/ opposing opinion / analysis etc... . NOT JUST WHEN IT SUITS OUR own NARRATIVE.... of uprooting one thing while ignoring the entrenchment of another thing...... 🤔
I think I may be missing something, but in terms of where our country is today, high petrol prices, high unemployment, high crime super high corruption, what has the constitution or the constituonal judges done to get us here? Is there a case perhaps where the constituonal judges ruled erouneously that led to the demising state of this country? The way I see it, all references to the constitution in that article should be swapped for the ANC led government and then we can really have a conversation because they have been in government since when when
Yes. You have missed the substance of the entire debate. You do however have the right to freedom of speech. I, for instance, find your statements very shallow and rhetorical. I have the freedom to make these statemented and not debate it. Now, if you want a debate. Put some meat on the table, not rhetorical statements.
@@aubreymackenzie2466 Yes it is indeed very shallow to point out that we did not arrive at the sad state our country is in because of the judiciary, constitutional or otherwise, but rather because of poor governance from an ANC led government, which the author of the said article has been a cabinet member of for the past 21 yrs. What role did the judiciary that she insults play in the people of Sekhukhune, in Limpopo not having water for the past 10 years? She was the minister of human settlements, water and sanitation in 2020, how did the constitution prevent her from providing those people with water? Indeed such rhetorical questions don't add much to long winded lofty discussions that will hardly take us anywhere. Even if the constitution were to change tomorrow, the country will still need to be governed. The constitution is a living document, a country is governed by people who need to be held accountable, and judges don't sit around looking for cases to adjudicate, cases are braught before them. I commented pricisly because I know I have the right to freedom of speech, one of the beautiful aspects of our constitution.
@@MyLineo this discussion is broader than the performance of an ANC minister, an ANC lead government or the ANC party. Your take is narrow and shallow. Yes, we do need an effective executive to implement the intended vision. The current performance of the executive definitely indicates that it needs to be replaced with more competent skills, but it does not end here. For example, based on the options provided by the text and interpretation of regulations, laws and constitution, the judiciary (provided it has the guts, will and conviction) can steer the country in a positve direction. This may require the revision of the regulations, laws and constitution. It might also require the replacement and the overhaul of the judiciary. Yes, our constitution should not be written in stone. It needs to be a living document. That would suggest that it needs to be discussed, reviewed and overhauled as and when necessary. This and more is what the discussion/debate is all about. You can add value to the discussion in a objective, responsible, productive, professional and positive manner or you can just point fingers; your choice.
Many of us would not argue that Minister Lindiwe Sisulu’s article is perfect. But I doubt that is Sisulu’s position. Many of us are happy that, regardless of so many problems of the ANC, there are those in the ANC like Sisulu who recognize that the South African constitution is not sacrosanct and beyond criticism. How can a post-Apartheid and post-colonial constitution were written by the elites of the National Party of PW De Klerk, the ANC, and the invited elites/leaders from other political parties be sacrosanct and beyond criticism including the judges who oversee the implementation of that constitution? How can the elite constitution of post-1994 and CODESA be used to create a new South African society away from and beyond Apartheid to create justice for the black masses and other poor and marginalized groups in contemporary South African society who also lost land? We have also been subjected to the propaganda that Namibia and South Africa have produced some of the most democratic post-Apartheid constitutions in the world. How can this be possible especially when the majority of the people in these countries have been excluded from having direct and democratic input in how the post-Apartheid constitutions were written and implemented? In this regard, I agree with advocate Muzi Sikhakhane that, as people anywhere in the world, we should keep in mind that a constitution of any country is not something sacrosanct that comes from somewhere else, but an integral part of a society’s class interests. Dr. F. O. Kustaa
Mboma I like the way you put this motion, but we have a great problem, because they forget where they come from, my question is the horse 🐎 is still the same but the jockey it the same as the previous jockey of the horse 🐎🐎🐎
Is this part one with a other to follow.? Felt there was still do much to talk about. I recently heard Gogo Aubrey talk about colonization and I was very interested. Wondered about the effect of encultration living in such a diverse society. Please think of doing something on this subject.
The problem with Sisulus article is that while it may critique the constitution and the so called settlement it has NOTHING to say about how the new government has performed especially considering that she was part of it. The problem with the blame game is that it diminishes and sometimes even extinguishes the desire to and the tenacity with which people deal with their challenges. Consider where the Israelis and the Japanese are today and then have a look at sub saharan africa.
The first article was poorly written, I found it difficult to get its point past the insults. For instance, if we take uGogo Matshiqi's thesis on coloniality & whiteness being the main issue here, then the minister should have said the country as a whole is run by mentally colonized Africans. She would of course be included in this categorisation, but she chose to go for the judiciary. Staying with the key point being whiteness as defined by uGogo, then the only logical conclusion has to be that the ANC, of which he was a "gun-carrying" member of, has always seen the world through this lense of whiteness. There isn't a shortage of historical documents of the ANC that are generally in line with what our current Constitution says. Ironically, I remember reading an article by Walter Sisulu lambasting what he called the "racialism" of Sobukwe's Afrikanists. So I suppose the minister's father would have been part of this class of good for nothing Africans only too happy to lick the spittle off the master, to paraphrase her. And for Advocate Skhakhane to rubbish the notion that she needs to present evidence is disingenuous. We're talking about a senior politician here who should be able to produce evidence when engaging in such important debates. No one has said the production of past judgments is a precondition to judicial criticism. By the way, even the assertion that judges are being potrayed as beyond criticism is not true, Judge Zondo was clear that he was offended by the insults in the article. Unfortunately this is an area that you did not give any attention to. An important matter she raises, especially in subsequent articles, is that of access to the legal system. It would have been interesting to hear the Advocate's views on this matter. My view, as a layperson, is that the government should setup a fund for such - in a manner similar to how the country's legal aid system works for criminal accused. This is not something that can come from the courts, otherwise we would then be the "judicial dictatorship" many have falsely claimed us to be.
It doesn't matter what her motive is or why now still if she said this while she was out off office people where going to ask why didn't she say something while she was still active in politics. Lets look at the contents what she said is so right 100% there's no justice in this country especially for us the poor. Less to be said about the judiciary Zondo's responds show how emotional he is and how he got mixed himself with politics. Lets debate what her point was not her intention.
It has come to my conclusion that the judiciary is captured by certain imperial elements.. Its a view i hold based on observations, and Zondo mustn't ask us to bring substantive evidence when we express our views.
.. to be sane in a country of madman is in itself madness 🤪.. one must not waist time and shed a tear for the current leadership and the state in which the ANC has found itself.They have brought this nonsense upon themselves.
The problem is that Raymond Zondo, a man deeply despised by a certain faction people who thinks he impedes on their ambitions through state capture commission has responded negatively to her article. Otherwise this would have been a non issue. But let's not forget freedom of speech is open to all including Raymond.
So what are we then? Because I am also from south Africa. What are you saying. Be honest like your hero. Dont hide. What are we. It's getting tiresome these comments
What a load of horseshit! I concur Andile is a black man born to black parents but he is not black. Stop listening to philosophers son...they are bored fellows.
South Africa is that house built on sand. This from the foundations of laid in 1994 dictated, determined, set and therefore guarded , monitored and controlled by those who deflected away from the crux of the matter, namely the lopsided wealth distribution. Colonialism and Apartheid stood for the one common thing, shielding and protecting privilege based largely on race and colour. The ANC can not face up to its role in the mess it created, by ducking the battles that had to be fought then which are responsible for the challenges faced in South Africa. South Africa must face up to the challenge.
The fact that you can read and write shows me you have already been 'coded'. Why would you think the young know anything - they are still learning how to keep their stink rockets clean, really now...
This is like watching pundits discussing a soccer match and whether a red card penalty should be given. We don’t want to hear about what the fans think. It’s about Ms Sisulu and why and what she wrote, plus her posturing and approach. These ANC people speak through intermediaries. Get Ms Sisulu on your programme and let her explain. Decolonized African Nations need to look at the sad stories of historical colonization and revolution throughout the world. Cases in point are Haiti, France, Liberia, Great Britain, ex soviet countries. France and Russia got rid of the royalty only by executing them. After decolonization there was chaos as various parties and people attempted to control the agenda. We have seen what the ANC has done. The constitution says let’s move on and have a fair country. But no, having taken political power away from the white apartheid government there is still that desire of the revolutionaries to take away more. Sisulu belongs to that thinking. The constitution and the judiciary stand in the way. If we end up having people like Malema and the EFF passing judgements on how society should work then South Africa is doomed. I repeat get mS Sisulu on your programm to explain. The pundits, good as they are, and can I praise them, can only give us a side view.
You won't get a heart from the owner of the channel. The agenda of the channel is clear. The hypocrisy of the privileged knows no shame and they are not interested in fact. African history is littered with them and the gullible who were taken in by similar talk.
