@@metal571 Na you pretty much covered everything. I'm not a big frequency guy but your reviews help understanding my own preferred signature. Believe it or not my original plan was to send you the K812 after buying it but luckily someone else sent you. That saved my wallet lol
Hi there, very high quality review as always! I find your opinion on the LCD sound quite interesting, as they match very much mine. I was also researching this from a Harman point of view and I found that when you reduce the upward slope in the upper mids, the "mid" mids (around 500-1000Hz) get in focus, and the headphone starts to sound - I don't have better word for it - boxey. As you would sing through a tube. It takes away from the clarity and forwardness from the vocals as well. This may be relaxing, though I am not a fan from it personally. I found this trait to be universal in basically all open LCD headphones that I listened to. And to a lesser extent with the Aeon closed, as you can see its FR curves. I also agree with your assessment in the bass area. They are not pumped up, so the LCDs are - contrary to the majority's view - not bass heavy at all. I feel their character is that full midrange sound, which is lush and dark, and that is why people find it bassy. But when I listen to them against my TH-X00, you are pretty much reminded by Fostex, how great subbass sounds! Now the treble is also interesting, particularly on the 2C. They are a bit reduced, and forgiving, but they extend very well. I have a song with a singular 15k peak in it (some fuck up in the mixing), and I always test treble extension with it. I can hear on my M50x, TH-X00, DT1990. I cannot clearly hear it, but feel the air in the K712, DT880, and it is dead on the MSR7 and the PM-3. I could clearly hear it with the 2C, so the soft treble is not due to some roll-off. Looking at your EQ profile, I highly suggest you to take a look at the 2C Closed. They reduced the mid mids, therefore upper mids and bass stand more in the focus. Maybe a bit too strong in the midbass and the treble - particulary for you I am less sensitive as I figured that out - but definitely very good. I enjoyed it very much. Z would probably hate its forwardness. Oh and if you want to review awful headphones, look no further than Ultrasone. Their line-up is consistently fucked up from 100 $ to 2500 $ with harsh treble and unnatural timbre. I am always wondering how they even exist. Keep up with the good work, cheers!
I have two ultrasones and love them both outside of extended comfort. The thing i like is the highs hit with the same feel as if i was in the room with an instrument. The sizzle of symbols or sliding your fingers up and down a guitars strings feels the same on the cans than as if i were playing that guitar. I can see how people dont like that, especially when coming from more neutral brands.
Haha that intro genuinely freaked me out for a second. Im sure you read my other comment regarding your k701/q701 review and how there was this one part in the vid where for a split second i could've sworn you were tyll. It was kinda cute actually lol. *Chris penn voice from reservoir dogs*: "why don't you tell me where the REAL metal571 is"
Nice review. I have not heard any of those headphones but i really like that you distinguish technicalities from frequency response. Everyone hearing is different and a free equalizer, can more often than not, correct the problem. Technicalities can't be corrected so flaws in technicalities should be pointed much more in most reviews.
Yeah that's why I always analyze detail levels and soundstage since an equalizer can typically correct minor frequency response issues but it can't add transient response speed to the driver or increase the soundstage
9:20 "Bass, of course, which we always start with." YES. Why can't all reviewers do this? It's what's missing (sub-bass) in most headphones and should be the priority when reviewing. Since there's no point listening for 10-20 minutes through a review about every other detail just to get to the bass to find it lacking! Best review of the LCD-2C. I really appreciate the EQ settings too.
@@metal571 oh thank you so much for you soon response. I have the opportunity of buy a early version of lcd X at only 500 USD!!! in very good condition. But the seller doesnt specify if it is fazor. I asked him if he could check if the driver grill has the pyramid waveguide but doesnt response me. And i am afraid that somebody buy it before me due the low price (Is very extrange in Mexico that kind of bargains) hahahaha. Thanks again metal.
This is now out of date with the new revision that was released starting around November 2020, I'm trying to get a new rev unit in to at least talk about on my Twitter now that this channel is retired
Great review! I have 2 questions for you: 1) Which one sounds darker to you between the above-reviewed Audezes and the HD650? (asking because I know the 650 sound and never heard the Audezes) 2) What is the deal with DSP using a multibit DAC? Some say that software Eq-ing in a rig with a MB DAC simply spoils the benefits of multibit. Curious to hear your take on this.
I compare everything to the HD 650 so the impressions of describing the sound here specifically apply to that. Multibit DACs being some kind of exception with EQ is preposterous. EQ affects the signal going into the DAC, not the conversion to analog.
Can someone please tell me how to apply the EQ setting that Metal has listed for the LCD -X. Do I just use APO or do I use peace also? Detailed explanation would be great . Thanks
Josh V. made a similar video today and had the direct opposite opinion regarding soundstage. I am new to the headphone "game", so i'm confused how soundstage could be so different from one person to the next, considering its just how wide or intimate a headphone sounds. A wider soundstage feels fairly important to me since i currently have HD600's & HD650's, which are considered narrow. I'm confused, haha
There are so many revisions and such a huge variability even among units from same revision than comparing impressions is almost pointless. There are some superb pre-fazor LCD-2 rev 2 "unicorns" that outperform everything up to a 4, while many other and specially after the fazor are kind of "meh" for the price. Also the issue with sudden driver failure and wood cracking, specially on the earlier non-bamboo units. Audeze is a lottery and I feel it shouldn't be that way with such a steep price. Even among the newer LCD-2Cs significant differences in the frequency response have been found comparing different units.
@ Brandon If you want a wide soundstage buy a pair of HD800 and don't look back. However be aware it's a complete different hp to the 6X series, fantastic for orchestral music, not so much for bassier pop/rock or vocals (but you have the 6s for vocals already).
If you want wide soundstage and excellent instrument separation for a bargain and you can live with a little bumpy upper midrange (ACDC can get shouty), buy a pair of K712. They have the most spacious soundstage I am aware of under one grand. And if you watch Josh's or metal's review, they kind of agree on that. Even Z as he recommends it strongly for gaming.
The DT880 has a bit better imaging than the AKGs, which are mostly just a wide sound. But the 712 improves on the imaging of the 701/702 etc. Both are significantly brighter than the HD 600
A very good close Friends offerd me the LCD-X (baught in 2016) in like new condition for 600€ including someone little addons like a new custom cable the carbon headband + better leather headband + all the of stuff, what do you think ? I couldn’t test them because he is living in another country but after reading about the big variations on the audeze lcd-headphones i was a little scarred, would love to hear what you think
I just recently bought the LCD-X, it comes this Sunday. I'm hoping that it won't have any QC issues. I wish they would test them before putting them on the market.
This is pretty old so the new late 2020 revision has a revised driver and new pads if you are buying new. I have a loaner at the moment and it's much better, tuning wise, but can still be helped further with some EQ
My question for you @metal571 is how will you be experiencing Red Dead Redemption 2; which headset? I watched some reviews this morning and they say the sound is incredible from outside gun fire to indoor gunfire. All with their own detail with each gun having their own sound signature. Game will run at Native 4K exclusively on Xbox X.
Metal 571, do you think lcd x’s are a good option for regular usage in online competitive gaming and casual listening ? Is the clamping force too much for these ?
With your updated LCD2C EQ, your preamp is -3 dB. Should this be -6 dB considering your 8000 Hz gain is 6 dB? Or is the 8000 Hz gain wrong? Seems a little high maybe Thanks for the review/EQ either way!
Some peak filters pull other peak filters around with them. I use the resultant graph rather than the gain of any one filter to guide the preamp instead which isn't always obvious just looking at the preset
@@metal571 i have read many opinions. Some people say that prefazor has a narrow soundstage but more detail in mids and highs. And the difference adding waveguide (fazor) just helps to increase soundstage but the quality of details is less. I don't know what to chose. I think i will go for the prefazor version. I will compare with my audeze LCDc and i will tell you my thougths. Let me tagg you on my instagram profile in order to tell you my impresions bro :) hehehehe . By the way, thank you so much for your reply bro!!!
Thank you for the review and comparison. What is interesting and struck me from the conclusion is that you don't recommend LCD-X becuse it needs more EQ than the LCD-2 C, yet you very much like the HD800 that needs a helluva lot more EQ before you start liking it. Or did I missunderstand that... :) ?
@@metal571 Makes sense. If by any chance you do read this: I have my eyes set on two higher end cans: LCD-X and Focal Clear. Which one would you pick? I know Tyl spoke very highly of the Clear. However, it isn't a planar magnetic...
Awesome review! I agree with most of what you said about the 2C. That 1k shout is definitely there on mine. Just getting into EQ so I was wondering whats the Q for the LCD2C Low Shelf Filter? I assumed since it was blank you meant 1 but if I do that it the FR starts rising at around 500 Hz. Is that what you intended?
@@metal571 weird it allows me to put in a Q on my low shelf filter and I don't know how to set it to default. I did however set the Q to 10 which starts the rise right after 200 Hz which sounds about right to me.
@@metal571 Yeah thats exactly what I have right now. You weren't wrong when you said the LCD FR can vary a good amount. I only am taking off around 3dB right now at 6k. Could just be my ears and I am still playing around with it but based on some SBAF measurements the unevenness in upper mids and lower treble can vary a decent amount. Regardless I'm getting closer to my hd6xx's tonality which is ideal.
as always very good...please do you by any chance tried the Grace Design M900 vs the Aune S6? I am looking for a great Headphone amp for my LCD-X.. I want a clean, balanced headphone amp... no coloration but that sounds great..is for Mixing
I think it depends on the amp. I'm a entry level audiphool. I own Sennheiser HD700, HD6XX, HIFIMAN 4XX, and Audeze LCD-2. For my music sources I have a yamaha home theater receiver rx-a860, LGV30 android phone, darkvoice 336 se tube amp and a Schiit Magni 3 amp. The Audeze and hifiman sound like hell amped through the darkvoice. The Sennheisers sound better on the Darkvoice than my planar magnetic cans. IMHO, everything sounds better amped through the Magni 3. Unamped, straight from my phone, there are notable differences, but it's hard to say if 1 is better than the other. So, my experience is consistent with what I've read, regarding planar magnetics, they don't do well with tube amps, and perform better with solid state amps. Not all SS are equal, but I'm very pleased with the Schiit Magni 3 and feel no need to look any further.
How is HD800 suited for 50% gaming,50% music(EDM,Pop,Rock,Metal)? Any better option or combo for this scenario? Software EQ or Schiit Loki which will you prefer with HD800 or any other TOTL headphone.
The Sennheiser HD800s are amplifiers picky so I am not surprised you need to EQ your HD800 to enjoy the music. Try HD800 with a OTL amplifier or buy a used hdva600 (the Sennheiser amplifier made to drive HD600-650-700 and HD800) and you will be surprised how wonderfull HD800 will sound at balanced mode. And try with a R2R dac too. Most of Delta-sigma dacs can not do justice to a neutral HD800. Thanks for your review.
Hello... I wonder which models you refer to by saying "better resolving planars"? I'm really interested into buying a high-end planar magnetic headphone, but Audeze feels like a lottery indeed to me...
Expensive stuff indeed... Though I would stay far, far away from Hifiman... Just reading the reviews on Amazon (HE1000, for instance) feels terrible. LCD4, I guess should suffer from the same famous Audeze variation...
Lol Amazon reviews are not very trustworthy but hifiman quality has been suspect in general for a while. Audeze variation still exists but supposedly is tighter now. When you pay that much for the LCD4 you can get the unit specific frequency response and if you don't like it they will exchange
Would love to try those out, I already know the LCD4 itself is incredibly amazing and those are supposed to be a lightweight easier to drive alternative. Which makes me confused why the LCD-4Z exists...
Any thoughts on the LC2C for potential gaming on the side? Been considering getting them but want to retain at least pretty good positional audiofor fps games and dead by daylight
I mean I did say in the review that they're both good for their price points, meaning the X is pretty clearly an upgrade. I would only buy B stock if you get a full warranty. Don't buy an Audeze without a warranty
@Chidi U wow ! thank you for taking the time to give me such an in depth response, it really has helped me kick the lcd2c off my possible upgrade list i like the impact of the z7 , just wish i had more resolution and separation with them, i will try and source a store that has the lcd x so i can try them, thanks mate!
@@metal571The pre-2016 units were slightly darker and at least mine had better bass impact and quantity. Of course the "unit variation" is always the kicker with Audeze, especially with their earlier LCD's. I had 2 pre-fazor LCD-3's, one early unit and one right before they switched to the fazor. The early one was much warmer and had some funky upper mid issues. The later unit was much more balanced overall and I still own it.
You touched on it briefly and I know the LCD-x doesn't compare to the HD800 in soundstage size, but how does imaging accuracy compare between the two? I have the same question regarding the T1 version 1 and LCD-x also. Just been looking for there open back headphones with the most accurate imaging; one that is spectacular for gaming also.
As you say the lcdx has a really serious driver variant . Jusha said the lcd2c has a wider soundstage and have said the vice versa . I am sure both of you are honest but I don't know why audeze didn't fix this variant. i would never buy an lcdx or recommend anyone to buy it.
I have the newest one and a crappy example of it that's grainier than it should be (same one Max reviewed recently). Stage is still wider on the X, so saying the 2C stage is wider is just wrong. But the current X has major issues with the FR (it sounds just like Resolve measured it)
Can you point to a major review on youtube that makes that claim? I own the 6XX and also the 4XX, K7XX, 598 which all have wider soundstage. 6XX are known to have narrow soundstage but not very narrow. The HD800 have very wide soundstage.
Then just stick to the graphs. You don't need this whatsoever if you don't believe subjective metrics exist which are not visible on measurements such as soundstage/detail/dynamics
I guess I wasn't clear? I am providing information beyond what I feel the graphs convey, and that is why reviewing headphones by humans still even exists. It would be nice to convey all of the audible experience in a graph, but so far IMO that is not being achieved.
Man I really wanted to like my LCD-X but it just hasn't been super enjoyable to listen to. Will be returning for Ananda or Arya if I can find on sale. Sundara was much more enjoyable for a 1/3rd of the price.
@@metal571 No kiddin. Any competition against Arya at that price for enjoyability and ease of listening? Listened to them at a show and they were so smooth airy and effortless. Again don't mind EQ but like you said, a little ridiculous!
@@KurtG879 probably nothing better than those. I don't really like Arya, a lot of excess peak around 7k but really good resolution, but Ananda is really smooth. But who knows because sometimes Hifiman does stealth revisions and by now it's smoother again lol
Nothing wrong with EQ, this is the mistake audiophiles do, compressor/expander it use on even live classical recording the rest of musics EQ plus compressor/expander.
I’m new to all this stuff and I’ve been debating getting a really nice pair of headphones and considering LCD-2C’s.. is that a good place to start? Kind of torn between those or Argon Mk3’s.. advice anyone?
metal571 yeah I figured they’re each for entirely different purposes. I don’t think the weight would bother me. Everyone seems to say good thing about the 2C’s I think I just want to experience them. I’ve never had a pair of headphones like this. Maybe I should just start with a set like HD6xx.. would need an amp to drive anything anyways
@@tbone8546 interestingly and somewhat comically the LCD2C will run fine from "regular" sources. HD 650 is quite insensitive and reacts poorly to high output impedance by comparison.
Hd800 are really amp dependant, they really require a good amp and dac and sound completely different with different gear. Watch Z Reviews' take on this. Between these and hd800 i'd take these every time
Audeze just announced a new bundle for all their headphones over 700 grams which will include a neck brace and 10 free visits to Physical Therapy for neck injuries! PS- You didn't have a bad pair of the X. I bought the LCD-X about a month ago from Amazon and they were probably the worst sounding/disappointing headphone out of the box I've ever heard. So muddy and bloated sounding. They are totally EQ dependent to get them to sound good. I literally had them re-packaged for return and dropped off at UPS 10 minutes after I received them. I am still tempted by the LCD 2 Classic
The X I had for this review was really good on stage and resolution, but the FR is as bad as any of them. The 2C doesn't have a particularly good FR either even still. The only one I know that has a decent FR is the GX
NOTE: This review does *not* apply to the late 2020/early 2021 driver revision to the LCD-X, which has been retuned. It applies *only* to any LCD-X with memory foam genuine leather pads and 2016 driver revision. The LCD-2C here is also a memory foam pleather pad model, not the late 2020 non memory foam pad revision. Intro 0:00 Purpose 0:44 Build Quality 3:42 Comfort 6:14 Accessories 7:14 Bass 9:18 Midrange 11:10 Treble 14:41 Soundstage 18:09 Isolation 19:00 Genre Pairing 19:22 Amp Needs 20:27 Conclusions 21:30 Forgot to include: the msrp of the 2C is $799. Monitoring headphone I am wearing is the Status Audio CB-1.
Still think that 799$ it's no bargain for the Classic, given other options out there. Holy shit, they come in a freaking cardboard box, come on Audeze....at 599$ I feel I'm buying much better value though. Hope Audeze will bring back that initial offer, the current price in Europe (899 EUR = 1K USD) makes me really mad.
@B Henson Yeah the 58X is grainier than the 6XX, 600, 660. That's what I've been saying but people are too blinded by other reviewers' opinions I guess lol. The LCD2C definitely has some grain in the treble compared to the higher end models from Audeze for sure. I just like darker headphones and don't want to fork over the cash for a new 2F yet. The PM2 is likely to not meet your grain standards then if you are looking for something with minimal grain. The Sundara should easily beat the 4XX in resolution/grain without a totally different signature, so I think that makes the most sense for you. Thanks for actually giving me details...most people just ask "what's a good headphone" and that does not allow me to give any kind of accurate recommendation lol
@@metal571 what's a cheaper alternative to a headphone with a sound signature similar to the LCD2. I listened to a pair at my local store and was in love. I've modded my fostex t50 mkiii to something in the vicinity as far as sound signature (rolled off higher frequencies, warm and buttery smooth, and slightly more of a bass bump). I have the Fidelio x2 as well and while those are a warm sound the higher frequencies are a touch brighter. I'm not opposed to sharper treble in general (I have dt 770 and 990s) but I dunno I just loved the lcd2. Just don't want to spend $900.
Most headphone reviewers have a relatively small following. I guess because it's such a niche hobby but Metal571 has been my go to reviewer for since Tyll retired.
Thanks so much, Tyll was always my blueprint for reviews and my favorite headphone reviewer ever so it is intentional that I'm trying to carry on his legacy, just don't have the time or equipment that he had though.
Got my X in last night and couldn’t take them off for 6 hours straight. I’ll agree and say the upper mid and low treble needs a bit of bump up (snares are quieter than they should be) but I adore them. Would recommend in a heartbeat.
I dont't get the issues people have with the weight. I was worried before purchasing them but then I've had no problem wearing them for 8 hours straight at a time, and this is coming from someone who used to own HD650. However, my suspension strap has stretched to the point that it is useless now, but I still find them comfortable regardless. Note that my LCD X is a 2020 version which is supposed to be lighter.
Hey Metal! I bought and installed the newest accessory leather LCD pads on my launch 2C’s last week - I know your EQ is based on the old pleather pads. How would you generally adjust it with the new pads if you had to take a guess? Thanks!
I had a similar experience with a pre 2016 revision LCD3F. Older LCD-Xs apparently have a lot of variation compared to the new ones as well. After the 2016 driver revision across all LCD models, sound quality across the board has improved in both FR and resolution for Audeze products. Wouldn't recommend buying any LCDs from before that revision, and buying a 2018+ is even better now that all the products are using a much more comfortable headband as well
metal, the new EQ profile for the LCD-2C sounds so much better than the original. I'm really glad I checked this video again and noticed the update! Thank you, thank you, thank you! I love these cans! Keep it up with the great reviews!
I updated it again last night, 10.5k was getting on my nerves. Now it sounds a lot closer to the 650. Check back again later tonight or tomorrow for one more tweak
Will do! 10.5k doesn't bother me too much, though I prefer the new setting overall. 4 and 6k changes does it for me! Did some A-Bing with my 650s (well 6xx..) and you're right new EQ brings the sound signature of the two closer. That 6k dip... :-P After I bought the LCD-2C I thought I was gonna sell the 6xx, but they're just too good not to keep, and at THAT price!
Interesting, I eq all my headphones to have a dip around 4-6k and boost around 1k, as that sounds natural to my ears. The LCD2c sound like the most pleasant mids to me out of the box. My EQ just looks like a bowl on the 2cs, I even have a tony zit at 1k where you have a dip. I guess everyone's ears are different.
It's really a case of preference and what you're used to. Generally I find my HD 660S to be about as uncolored as I've heard in the mids so I check against that as a reference
