AUTISTIC PEOPLE TALKING Ep. 7 PODCAST ft. Irene from The Thought Spot  

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I love the Autistic People Talking format. So valuable 🙏

Thank you for having this valuable conversation. As an “autism mom” that shares AuDHD diagnosis with my son, who has higher support needs, I find that my experience of the world is so much like his. I did not know he was autistic until his divergences from “normal” development became impossible to ignore. He was so much like me. I saw how he could feel music so strongly and be so particular about what he wore at such a young age, how much he enjoyed sensory stimulation like his mom, so I saw him as my kid. My kid was normal to me. I was normal to me. I also couldn’t ignore his frustrations in losing his ability to speak/communicate his preferences or get the stimulation he needs. As I learned more about his needs, such as what a sensory seeker is, I learned more about myself. I have been labeled as the wild, too much, too [whatever label] before and felt shame for it. If I had to compare my quality of life as a kid to what my son has lived thus far, I would say that his quality of life is far better than mine. He has the appropriate environment and supports, things that were never given to me.

Yay you have Irene!! 🎉 I’m excited

Ooo looking forward to this!

Thanks so much for organizing this, Claire! I enjoy both of your channels so much, so this was a real treat. 😎

I love how she basically starts the podcast, like an episode of Woodshed Theory.

(Edit: fellow AuDHDer here!) Wow, this conversation couldn’t have come at a better time for me; I’ve been ruminating about these topics so much in the past couple weeks. I really related to an appreciate both of your thoughts on this, as I have followed both of your work on RU-vid for the past several months. I think I’m coming to very similar conclusions about this discourse myself. Love to you both.

Thank you, Claire and Irene! I'm enjoying this very helpful discussion!

“We are not feet on the floor kind of people” 😂 Totally!!

I love the intro. That little pause before saying "talk" is so funny.

Another excellent conversation, filled with information. I have seen a lot of Irene's content previously on her channel. So nice to hear a proper conversation without needing the small talk 😆. Have a lovely day. 😊

Thanks, Claire, for having Irene as a guest.

I really relate to being afraid to disclose what is happening in your brain to people, especially doctors, and especially pre-diagnosis. Even when I was very young, I remember thinking that I had to hide the complexities of my mind because I believed that if I expressed what was happening for me that I could be seen as crazy, and I feared that I could be taken away from my parents and locked up in some kind of mental home I feel that is a huge factor as to why it took me up until I was 29 to be diagnosed with Autism. Masking began so early for me, it was so automatic and habitual, that being able to take that mask off and express in truth what my experience of life was was so difficult. I had to be asked the right questions in order to receive my diagnosis, because I couldn't simply say what my experience was. It took 8 hours of questions to get to an understanding that I am Autistic Really appreciate this conversation 🩷✨️🌿

Thank you for this. I appreciate you!! This was so thoughtful and honest-I resonate with you both and love the community you are fostering with these conversations.

what a great conversation! really enjoying this podcast series.

Thank you so much for these conversations, Claire 🙏🏻 ... I'm so glad you invited Irene on! There is a depth of internal processing evident in her videos that feels like such a gift. As an undiagnosed (but very obviously neurodivergent) 40-something who burned out spectacularly and is finally coming to gain context around the roots of my lifelong difficulties and frustrations, this is so valuable. I just spent and hour and a half witnessing my own thoughts and self-explorations spoken in different words and through different lenses by two very thoughtful people who have made the effort to do the same inner work towards a more integrated presence ... Beautiful. I appreciate you both.

My god so much to relate to in this podcast!!! I kept feeling like ‘yes!!! me too!’ Such a thoughtful and expansive convo! Fwiw, I think it’s soooooooo important to have the label and/or learn about the bits & pieces of neurodiversity and how they apply to yourself. I think I’d be considered old but I def don’t think of myself that way…even if I still use periods and 2 spaces after sentences. 😅😂😂😅 Thank you both for this amazing podcast. Gonna have to watch again to absorb even more!❤🎉❤

Great convo, thank you Claire & Irene.

Thank you so much for this episode . I felt heard and seen .

Phenomenal conversation my friends; so meaty! I agree that level ones on platforms, like yourselves, are a voice for those on the spectrum who haven't or can't find theirs yet; I can connect to the struggle of others with different capabilities. It's so courageous of both of you to transcend the (limiting) inside and outside voices for diverse and authentic representation. Brilliant podcast Claire 🌻🌻🌻

Really enjoying & earning a lot from this podcast series! Good to see Irene less scripted & more spontaneous & a very interesting conversation. Thank you both for sharing 💚

I've been enjoying how you and Jenn have been creating a community between many other Neurodiverse/Autistic communities. ❤

Irene, I’m half Korean myself, and completely void of Korean culture because my Korean mother hasn’t been in my life since I was a toddler. There’s a level of ostracism from all sides there that only people who experience it can really understand. Ironically, I only found out a few years ago that a majority of that other half is actually Apache. Literally a quarter Apache son of a U.S. army vet getting bullied by white kids for not being American. Funny how that worked out lol

I just have to say - WOW THIS IS AMAZING! Thank you so much for sharing your insights and knowledge, it really validates what I'm going through as a late identified AuDHD person! I've watched many of Irene's videos and they are so informative and important to the neurodivergent community and also for people who want to understand our brains. This conversation is dope and you both are so smart.

For 20+ years, I was treated for Bipolar II... at 48 (2022), I took on researching my mental health... Within 2 days, I had self-Dx as AuDHD; It was blatantly obvious. I had a crazy, sudden shift in my understanding of myself. I grieved for a year, then I started moving forward again. But, now I have the cheat codes. 😊

Very relatable. Mine was not teaching others on the spectrum but, rather, my autistic kiddos. I could see the similarities in my own childhood but it took me so long to really embrace it. I thought I had my quota of diagnoses via CPTSD and major depression. My therapist and I also saw anxiety and OCD tendencies though the label was never placed. It was cheap state run health care so I think it was a case of shuffle me along. I stopped talking about ending myself and that was enough. But, autism? She never even approached it despite knowing about my kids. Honestly, neither did I. It took counselors working my kids through a rough patch to compel me to finally take self-tests a few years ago. After these pinpointed so much in me-down to the minute detail of how I hold my hands when sitting-I knew. Even with that , I still periodically struggle with the fact it remains self-diagnosed. Finances remain elusive and finding other priorities in life take top drawer for my husband, some understandably, others...well, that is a discussion for another time and probably not here. lol. Anyway....a few days late but thanks for this so much. ❤

As a late diagnosed autistic person with low support needs that has a nonspeaking autistic child with high support needs, this was an interesting chat! I believe selective/situational mutism and nonverbal/nonspeaking get mixed up a lot. My son has apraxia of speech, which makes it so he is physically unable to speak as of right now at age six. I appreciate when creators of lower support needs highlight those with higher support needs and those that are nonspeaking. Thank you both for sharing your experiences! 💞

I love your podcast! It’s so great to watch two autistic people having a conversation and sharing your experiences! There’s a lot I’ve learned and related to.

Another amazing episode with two amazing people😊.Brave of you to be open and honest about your OCD Claire. That made me realize that I maybe should seek out help for it myself, and I am not alone in having un wanted and intrusive thoughts. Thank you🙏

Even at work I don't sit with my feet on the floor!!!! Oh my goodness!!! LOL!!! My feet are propped up under my desk, or I sit on one of my feet! My son doesn't sit with his feet on the floor either!

Claire and Irene, what a great discussion - a lot I can relate to!! These podcasts are relaxing, insightful, and extremely helpful. Thank you both so much!! ✨✨

Soooo many things are relatable in this conversation ☺️ First thing was when Irene mentioned fighting off a meltdown while clients were melting down. I can relate to that experience but with my children. Some days I find it really hard not to melt down. I’m finding lately that the accumulating suppressing of meltdowns is leading to a faster burnout. Regarding special interests I too need to research everything I watch extensively. I especially like historical movies or documentaries. I like to know all the sides of the story and from what perspective something is presented. Lastly, I always felt my friends frustration too when I would present my thoughts on where the “perpetrator” in their story was coming from. I can’t help but rationalise why someone acted a certain way 🤪 I loved todays chat 💜

Great episode. I relate to the "needing to know everything" so hard. Sometimes instead of a conversation I can unintentionally turn the interaction into an interview 😅😅

I appreciated this conversation. You covered a lot of complex topics. Very important topics. Thank you.

Wow such a wealth of knowledge. This conversation was great.

What a great pod, guys! Irene, you’re so relatable-maybe more than you realize. That uncertainty with sharing your ND experience-with mental health professionals, the public, even the autistic community-a lot of us get that too. That hesitance, the fear of misrepresenting and being misrepresented, of offending others, even as we’re struggling to just figure ourselves out. And oh man, that frustration of hitting a dogmatic wall with fellow NDs who already have their minds made up. I’ve found that a lot lately myself as I attempt to explore the neurological underpinnings of autism. Autistic folks hear mention of “genetic markers” and immediately start freaking out like I’ve just espoused a bunch of crazy eugenics theories, or that I’m automatically an Autism Speaks apologist talking about a cure, or that I’m holding back experiential understanding and support, or suggesting that we’re a monolith, or-ahem. I digress lol. But yeah, it’s so hard to have nuanced conversation in a public forum anyway. Throw a condition as complicated as autism in the mix and that difficulty compounds exponentially. Claire! You’re such a fantastic host! Seriously, such a wonderfully attentive conversationalist. It’s clear you’ve put tons of effort into honing that skill and frankly it’s amazing to see. Btw, I would love to know if either of you have seen the lecture on historical perception of autism posted a couple of weeks ago, delivered by Francesca Happé, here on RU-vid. It’s one of if not the best comprehensive answers to the question “what is autism?” I think I’ve ever heard. If you haven’t, I highly recommend checking it out. I’ll reply with the link to it if I’m able.

This was a most excellent video to watch. Thank you, Irene and Claire. So many great take aways and Autistic life topics touched upon. Feeling so grateful for content like this and for the (awesome) Autistic representation. I think I’m going to have to give it a re-watch. ❤

Epic Thought-Theory conversation! Appreciate you sharing experiences and perspectives for us all still part of the cake. Hopefully the research catches up to you two 😊 That will be waayyy after I'm gone, so meanwhile I'll continue "interacting" with both of your valuable YT channels content!

I'm 100% autistic, and I want to know the points because I haven't had a formal diagnosis.This doesn't mean I don't advocate for myself, but I also wonder if there's a benefit in me doing so. Having a formal diagnosis would make living in a foreign country difficult, but not impossible and is really the main factor as to why I never went the formal diagnosis route. Not only that, but finding someone who deals with adults is virtually impossible. BTW Thank you for everything you do for the community, this channel and podcast makes me feel less alone in the world, because I realize that my experience isn't singular.

Such an amazing conversation! I appreciate both of your perspectives so much. The depth and openness is so rare and lovely, makes me feel seen as a big picture thinker. Thank you both 🖤 🙏🏼.

Yay Irene! man I am always in the weeds

Dear Claire, Thank you again for a wonderful, compassionate and informative podcast this time together with Irene. I haven't come across her channel yet and have now subscribed to her channel as well. Especially the topic level 1 lower needs but NOT no needs autistic experience. Irene's mention of how watching RU-vid conversations are her way to be social and not have to answer questions or interact immediatly resonated so much with me. I look foward to your next podcasts and porch coffees and lives! Thank you for your hard work and caring preparation. (excuse my spelling today 🙈) yours, ella

Such a great episode Claire! 🙏. Really interactive conversation between the two of you. And completely agree, Irene is so cool 😎💯.

12:41 The thing is, OCD / depression is a fairly common misdiagnosis for autism / anxiety, so there are probably a fair number of autists out there that have been told that all their behaviors in the restricted/repetitive behavior category are OCD and even are being medicated for OCD but don't have it. I was given antidepressants as a teen for OCD and depression and never felt they were doing a thing for me. It wasn't until my anxiety was treated around age 30 that I felt that any kind of pharmaceutical intervention was doing a thing for me. It's weird, I believed the depression diagnosis more than the OCD diagnosis, but I did do a bit of the "I'm so OCD!" thing (including jokes about CDO), and in the end, I'm not sure either diagnosis was accurate (though my autism evaluation does say I should be monitored for depression!).

THANK YOU for discussing comorbidities. To me, OCD is when the hyper-vigilant, risk-averse aspects of a person get out of control to where they become disabling, but an OCD diagnosis is a very narrow, pathology-based cross-section that doesn't capture nearly as much of the lived experience as autism does.

I have so many notes and thoughts from this video. Thank you! It's always interesting seeing YTers in this conversational tone. You bridge the gap and create so much comfort with your guests!

Those times before getting diagnosed is a time of confusion and where you are mislead by asking the wrong questions. Like being lost and people keep giving you the wrong directions or the wrong maps all the time. And you keep going on these difficult detours that takes more and more of your energy. If you're lucky on your journey you will stumble upon something that makes you start looking for questions elsewhere. Or someone said something helpful for once and you are starting to find the path you need to be on. Getting diagnosed is like getting that guide that helps you to find the right questions for you. To sift through all those other questions and find the ones you need to move forward. Getting diagnosed is not about getting "the" answers. Now when you start having the right questions you are getting closer to better answers. And dont forget. More questions will be discovered on the way. Its as if you are on this path that feels almost as it was built for you. You pick your berries (questions and answers) a long the way. Its no longer an aimless journey on these confusing NT paths that makes you walk in circles.

Great talk Irene and Claire!

Primitive reflexes can help explain the feet 🦶 on the floor scenario. I’m learning so much while my son is being diagnosed

You have such great guests, i love Irene

Omg yes about the stories from other people! I have started asking people to give me a preview of their story before telling it, or what their reaction was to the event before telling me because I’m not sure how they want me to react! I’ve had friends call me unsupportive bc I try to remain neutral and I don’t immediately validate the story teller. Or I totally lose track of their story bc I’m so lost in the details and not being able to anticipate where it’s going.

🏆🏆 Great Video. Thank you.

So helpful, thank you!

As a fellow OCD sufferer, I can relate to everything Claire said

Thank you for this interview. You both are so honest, open, and bring up interesting topics. Its very helpful to listen to and think about.

15:20 My understanding is that schizophrenia involves actual auditory hallucinations, as opposed to the whole silent-voice inner monologue thing that most people seem to report (but not everybody even has an inner monologue or a minds eye, and the vividness people report for either varies, and researchers have found that whether people *report* that they have these things doesn't necessarily track with whether they actually do, and, and, and...)

Looking forward to the information about psychedelics on “The Thought Spot”. I’m one of those folks who has asked about it previously, and am most interested to know if it has the same brain reset effects on ND brains. CPTSD is not uncommon among the ND, so being able to reset out of that condition would be helpful. So many other good points made during this chat, so thank you both for this.

Great talk. 😃 I need to finish watching Irene's last video... I started it and got interrupted... then it vanished from my recommended and I forgot to find it and finish it. 😅 I need to remember to do that tomorrow... bed time now. All the episodes have been great so far.

this was a lovely visit. really great back n forth 🤙💚

Interesting. Just watched a video of her last night. Befote I watched the actual video of Meg and again it was (also) about parents exposing their autistic children on YT having meltdowns. So again I was thinking "I wish there would be videos of my childhood (I don't even own photos), I remember they always said "Don't be so hysteric" when I couldn't stop crying loud and subbing (is this the word?) for a long time. But I just rolled myself to a ball on the floor then, or hyding somewhere. So I thought it could be a good idea to watch some of this videos I think are harmful to compare it with my memory beeing a child for the official diagnose. It is a problem that there is nobody living or willing who could give information on me as a child, so I need to write down all I can remember. And to get back to what I wanted to say (yes, have already an ADHD-diagnose), YT offered me a video about meltdown then with her. It was hard but very relatable. Another thing I just was able to make clear for myself is that I feel my autism is the way my true me feels, thinks and lives "normally" (yes, weord word to use especially on this topic, but my english, I don't have enough words to use yet). Amd the ADHD makes it more exhausting/complicated and also kicks in when I am with people, so they see me very different. Most time I spent alone in my very ordered tiny flat not speaking a word concentrated on something I love to do for days. Doing things like preparing food etc. if I have to do in a very specific way I always do. Same food for months until one moment its over and I have to change. To stay on this for looooong times. In general I mostly stay with same things, doing them the same way, get mad if I am Interrupt, etc. Hate supermarket, if they put things into different spaces I can't deal with it and go home without. But outside with other people, I act weird, can't stop chatting, am loud, a person who really stresses me outyself and I don't like. So I don't know how to meet people I like and be me. Or show other people like doctors the real me with need for silence, ordered space. I want ADHD-meds so badly! There often is this question "If there would be a cure for autism, would You wamt to get rid of it?" in interviews and I clearly would say "no, that is what is me, often it is hard to deal with it because the world is ruled by neurotypicals, but I like us." But the ADHD? Take it, burn it, I HATE it!.

I have just put this on now, so I haven't gotten very far through, but I'm so excited to see two of my favourite people talking together 💙💙💙 And I really don't like sitting "normally"! I get achy hips and knees (and restless hips, knees, legs) as well so I'm constantly shifting. But I still sit like a little kid would in a chair, if they could sit how they wanted to........ Or I perch 😂. "Normal" isn't comfortable. Also, I'm quite short, so most chairs aren't designed for me. Either I sit right at the back of the chair..... And I can't touch the floor (uncomfortable, but granted, hilarious), or I can touch the floor, but my back isn't resting against anything. There is more to just this part for me, but yeah....

THIS IS ALL SO RELATABLE

I can't wait for the psychedelics and autism interview :) I've have personal experiences there. Great convo. ladies I really enjoyed it Thanking you both xx

I’d love to see a video going over some examples of accommodations and support for lower support need autistics … I often know I need help but don’t even know where to begin or what to ask for. Part of it I think might also be that I’ve gotten through life up until this point (barely at times) and having a lot of internalized imposter syndrome and maybe even ableism.

Thank you for this!

25:13 I’ll have to continue the video at another time but omg this one is soooo good!!!

25:21 Once you get past 30, or start to gain too much weight, your joints start limiting your options for sitting funny. Saw a younger autistic person in the kind of pose that used to be quite natural and comfortable for me a few days ago and felt a pang of jealousy.

Wow yes. The accuracy and vulnerability is crippling. 🎉

About the level of details and context you need to know, I feel that my thought process cannot be concluded if I don't have all of the information. If there's a piece missing, I can't place the thing in my head so I can't think on it and be satisfied and close the matter. For example, I hate when my mom talks to me about what happens with her friends (or even worse, when she talks to me about her friends' friends and their lives) because I don't know their faces, what they're like, what they've done in their life, when did my mom meet them and in what circumstances, and she just wants to share what they told. So now I have only a tiny tolerance for tthis kind of talk and I stop her quickly because it hurts my brain to not being able to picture the situation and to not understand why it matters to her emotionally speaking.

I wonder if this could be a clear analogy to explain high vs low support needs to people. If we considered the whole spectrum of "visual impairments" high support need = blind, but we recognize there are also other visual impairments e.g. myopia or presbiopia. People with these are low-support-need but still undeniably need a support (glasses) to do basic life things!

I feel like most of your episodes of this have a moment where you say "I'm talking too much, this isn't meant to be about me". I'd say don't worry too much about that - this isn't necessarily a talk show where a journalist interviews an expert, it's a podcast with a guest and a host, and the host can contribute too. It's "autistic people talking", and as an autistic people, you can do the talking :) Although, probably stopping to think about that does help create the healthy balance in conversation that you have, and I also understand (on a conversational rather than content-creation level) the difficulty of knowing what the norms are, and the need to check in. So, I guess I'm not saying you need to change anything that you're saying, just change whether you feel bad about it - unless you're actually already 100% secure in this and are only checking in to keep things on track. In that case, just keep doing what you're doing!

31:48 idk how from outside people can think that low support needs people not aware that we are not struggling at the self extent as high-support needs. I think some of us are even cautios to identify as autistic in order to not "disrespect" high-support needs.

Claire you should research Proto Indo-European since you live ancient languages

Love the content ..not the singing

22:58 Eh, your usage of the phrase has more to do with the military imagery that the biblical phrase comes from than with the meaning of the phrase in its biblical context (though, to be fair, it's often quoted out of context in religious settings), so arguably it doesn't count as "Judaeo-Christian language" so much as "ancient military talk". In the biblical context, it's about God seeing the people of a nation mistreating each other and deciding that enough is enough, and searching for just one person that cares enough about their country to stand up to him on the nation's behalf and ask him not to destroy it. As a marginalized group, we may eventually find ourselves confronted with the decision on whether or not to advocate for our nation before God, but that's not what you're talking about here.