Average Jack Archerys, Nate Sellers and I talk about FOC... and why he doesn't care about it. 

Is this real life? A rational, intelligent, open-minded, respectful conversation about FOC? Thank you both for the humanity it is much appreciated. Sadly, I’m not sure the masses will tolerate 36 minutes of this non-violent candour. Maybe you should let people know in the title that Nate gets eaten by dr. Ashby. Just a thought.

That was fun. The "Cerebral Archer" goes head to head with the "Practical Archer" about a favorite topic of the "Mad Archer"... also, my three favorite channels. Thanks!

Omg can we please have more of these. I loved both of you working together.

The intro is amazing!! Good job, Brandon!

Great chat guys, well done! What Nate said about heavy aluminum arrows and pass-throughs is spot on and correlates with what Troy and I talked about in our chat a few weeks ago. Pass-throughs were a given, we never had deer run away with 18" of arrow hanging out of their chest cavities and our "fast" compound bows generated about 230 FPS.

You guys need to collaborate more often. Fantastic job! Trajectory is something we should all talk about. Or you talk about and have us listen. Either really.

Easily one of the best Archery RU-vid Channels out there 👌

Love the intro man!!! As a target archer, FOC is not what i focus on. For arrow build i would focus more getting the correct spine, lenght and point weight to tune the arrow for the best possible grouping regardless of the FOC

Brilliant video and discussion. I laughed, enjoyed and learned from it! Thanks for teaming up on this!

I was having a bad day. Then I saw you uploaded a video, and that changed immediately. Thank you!!

Can we please get another one of these? I really enjoyed this video. Thanks Brandon and Nate!

That was awesome! Two of my favorite archery guys to watch. We need another one of these. It was informational and fun to watch!

Great job gentlemen, appreciate the discussion and looking forward to more of this style of video in the future.

You guys HAVE to do this more often! My two favorite’s on a great subject...

This is amazing! Its great to see 2 intelligent and well versed shooters positively discussing this. Alot of fun to watch and great points all around. How its apart of the whole system.

I very much enjoyed this. Great conversation and sensible arguments. Hope to see more of this on the channel.

You guys gotta do more of these! This was the funniest commentary I learnt a lot from. You’ve narrowed out some of the arrow building experiments I’d blow my savings on. Keep it comin’

I've been waiting for another video!! These dudes are both great resources. Brandon you are one of my favorite channels on RU-vid.

can honestly say i enjoyed this video thoroughly. the back and forth lightness and complete information that you guys share is priceless. i myself use solid, one piece broad heads with my Q2xl. absolutely beautiful flight path

intro was amazing. content was awesome. quickly becoming one of my favorite channels. keep it up!

Great intro 👍🏼 I enjoyed how it panned out, I was expecting a big battle but thankfully it wasn’t lol. Great points from both of you. I love some FOC.

It's funny that I thought I was the only one that watched both of you, and you freaking know each other! That was pretty cool to watch and listen to. What I've learned, from both of you, in the last six months or so is that I use FOC and GPP as sort of left and right boundaries for my arrow builds. I try to stick to between 11 and 15% FOC and 6.75 and 9 GPP. This takes both the arrow configuration and the bow specs into consideration. So i figure that an arrow shot from my bow that is in between both of those sets of guard rails has a shot of making a clean hole thru paper, and has enough weight to kill a deer.

This was awesome! So much knowledge being dropped in a practical manner. Keep it up boys!

You guys need to do more podcasts. This information was great all around from different views and different experiences and not heating up. You guys looked like you were have fun. Thanks again. Great job

Enjoyed the authenticity guys! Nice to listen to an actual discussion.

Great to hear 2 of my favorite RU-vidrs have a civil conversation. Both make good points. After last season fiasco I through all my mechanicals away. I shouldn’t have been stubborn when I shot the fixed I had more consistent kills bad or good shots. But kept trying the mechanicals finally after what I thought was a good shot but ended being bad and no deer found was the 2x4 to the head to get me to understand. Thanks again.

Legit my two favorite RU-vidrs.

Haha this was awesome! Thanks for bringing a rational conversation about a very polarizing archery topic. One of the best discussions I’ve seen on RU-vid in a long time!

That was a great show guys!! I’d like to see more of those!

Good stuff. I like seeing the collaboration between two archery minds. Do more of this.

This is great! I follow both of you and you definitely have to do this again. Great video

This was the best!! Great conversation and facts!!! And.... When you find an arrow, fletches and broadheads you like... BUY ALL YOU CAN!! They will be discontinued at some point!

Great video, really appreciate both of you and the info you put out.

The only person that rings my notifications bell Way to go man post MORE 👍👍👍

that was FOCin awesome! im buidling some arrows now and this was helpful!

Wow. That was fun to watch. My wife even sat through it ... well ... at least the first 2-3 minutes, which is a record for RU-vid archery videos. It is great how a couple of experienced guys can debate their thoughts on building arrows in a forum that promotes the sport and doesn’t degrade to tearing it down.

Great dialogue guys. I like seeing the more serious side of Average Jack.... I’m have been dialing back my FOC charge, focusing on around 500 gr arrow to get good distance, good flight and in the 15% FOC range..

Great video. Nice to see both of you on the same subject!

Fantastic! Two of my favorite archery personalities in one place!

Great video liked the collaboration of you too. By the way I am one those guys that still shoots a Switchback, and don't want to change my set up. I agree with some of the others you need to bring in The Ranch Fairy. I was also excited to see this video.

I shoot a 705gn arrow with 21% FOC…which is only a heavy and useless stick without a properly tuned bow. This video has been out longer than I’ve been shooting a bow but I’ve learned so much thanks to videos like this and others. I shoot standard weight arrows as well. Great video

Fellas, that just made my day. Great video.

The intro! Bahahaha. Love it. Learned a lot from you both, and yes even Troys goofy butt.

Great discussion and I would agree that bow tuning comes first and arrow spine selection combined with FOC is in addition.

Think about it - build it - test it and if you like the result use it. I really enjoyed the conversation and I absolutely learned some things.

Fantastic! Nate is a bad dude! Nicely done boys! Smiled the whole time

Great content, gentlemen!

Informative and extremely funny. Very good episode

love this channel!

Hard core geekin out! Love it!

I hunt elk in CO with a 55# Helix Ultra, 30.5". Rampage 300, Ethics 120 gr footer/sleeve. 250 gr Cutthroat SB. TAW 650 gr, 27% FOC. Arrow cost ~$16 less BH. Hits 11 of 12 Ashby's factors. It flys perfect, easy to tune. Fletched with 3 - 1.75"x3/8" high AAE max vanes. Great groups. Maybe this year I will get to slurp it thru an elk. Thanks guys, this was fun to watch 2 gentlemen discuss FOC. Good job!!!

Great video/conversation

Great video. Keep them coming......

Great to see you twos collaboration. I finally landed on a 300 gn rampage, with 100 gn iron will insert/outsert and 100 gn Daysix Broadhead for 200 total up front. 3 fletch AAE max stealth and 4” wrap. My arrow is 504 gn total, 16% foc and seems to be super deadly and manageable. 30.5” / 65 #. My only complaint is that I’m only shooting them at about 266 FPS. Don’t want to crank my bow up anymore because I I shoot a lot and want to save my shoulders. Good to here both sides of the story here!

Great show.

Great vid guys!

This was fun and informing!

I like 5mm shaft's too. Especially out here in WY with the wind.

What an enjoyable informative “fight”!

Awsome conversation. By the way, Easton has a chart with id and od sizes of theyre aluminum arrows that you can see what shaft will fit over your carbons.

I feel like ranch fairy should have entered in here somewhere Thanos style. Evil villain haha

Love you guys! Empirical data is best. My 27.5” 60# V3X shooting #207 swhacker 440gn total weight passes both lungs and sticks in dirt 100% of time on broadside shots, even large mature whitetail. I shoot as far forward as possible without hitting shoulder bones. Quartering away I’ll bury one in the far shoulder sometimes. I limit my shots to 45 degrees or less away and 15 degrees toward. No problem they are all down in 100yds and usually 40yds or less.

Two of the three Archery 🏹 related Content Creators that I watch the most doing a collab together, that was amazing and so helpful. (The other being Troy from Ranch Fairy) Troy mentions this multiple times as he refers back to Dr Asby's teachings. He mentions that Structural Integrity, Perfect Arrow Flight and SUPER SHARP fixed blade or cut on contact broadheads, etc... are more important than being a crazy FOCer. If a softball doesn't fly as perfect as a baseball there's no "point" in shooting the larger Adult Arrow. I really enjoyed this intelligent and articulate discussion on one of the hottest topics in the Archery 🏹 world right now. Adding a "little" humor too. Hopefully you two can collaborate again. I would even listen in podcast format while I'm driving. I for one am suffering from inconsistencies in arrow flight and accuracy. As you know I have an older bow 06 PSE Fire Flite 33 from Cabela's that's set up with a 29 inch draw and 60 lbs. I switched over from the Cabela's Xtreme Hunter 340s (9.3 gpi standard insert) to the Carbon Xpress Mayhem SD (11.25 gpi and 45 grain insert) and have tried Magnus Stinger Buzzcut, SIK F4, and G5 Montec CS all 100 grain broadheads. I recently got a custom bowstring and cables ($90) and release ($90 TruBall Beast), but I am still not getting what I want out it. I need to find a real bowshop this spring and go there before turkey season even if it is an hour and a half drive away.

This was great, I feel like you guys could do four more hours though..

Shooting a 560 Gn arrow with a magnus black hornet on the front of it with 17% foc for about $40 per arrow and there zipping through every thing, but perfect arrow flight was the biggest factor in this I do believe ! Good video guys.

“Slurp”?!? Technical term...! But I digress...keep up the good work, Brandon! Love all it...

Great discussion

Now we are talking skijoring now? LOL!! Great show! Gimmy those 2216's and a thunderhead any day!!

Really great video loved it 👍

Damn I see an archery podcast. I like that they are kind of different archers and can play the devils advocate and have different opinions on things.

Enjoyed the video/podcast. I agree with literally everything. One thing I want to add is that I do believe that we should differentiate between traditional(off the riser) and compound arrows. I think that high FOC has a place in traditional archery for sure. I believe it is significantly less important from a compound(especially drop away rests) as long as it is still a reasonable number...nothing too high, nothing too low. Let me know if you guys agree.

Great conversation! To add to it, you should have defined what is "High FOC". Your arrow with 25% FOC...thats Extreme FOC. I think the % for high FOC may be easier for people to achieve with a little tinkering.

I have been REALLY shooting for 3-4 years now and you guys had me for most of this chat . I'm shooting 374 grain arrow at 25.5 draw on 70 , 75 lbs bow I don't hunt so some or most of this will not affect me . 3-D and target , arrow flight all over it I'm still playing with arrow set up and enjoying it and taking all the info in and trying different things . Now I did get Kinetic Pearce Platinum's and they are truly a hunting arrow I get 80% pass right to the fletching's or pass through so for my use TO MUCH FOC . REALLY GOOD video you guy's are cool And snow dose SUCK we have just over 2' but we are warming up so it's dropping . But if you miss your arrow is GONE TILL SPRING may be that's why Canadian's shoot so well and carefully ??????????

I would love to see more of these type of videos about arrows and just educating people. Learned a bunch, very helpful, thank you. Can you go over your equipment you use to build your arrows?

Great content!

Anecdotal evidence but my last set of twigs were 550 grain Easton Axis. When sighting in I sent two arrows high , both struck rock(40+ yards) and broke where the field point screws into the HIT insert. I've had similar happen with FMJ and Hexx twigs. I just built a set of 608 grain Day Six arrows and sent one into a rock on purpose. It'll need a new field point but the arrow is totally fine. Adding outserts is similar to adding splines to a drive shaft. The load is spread out over a larger area and results in an exponential increase in strength.

Interesting discussion... and these guys are having fun! ... Mutual respect shows though..

Best start to a show ever.

Like both said I think having FOC can help but you got to have your arrow flying straight.. I think alot of people don't get pass through because they know their arrow is hitting where they aim but don't know how their arrows are actually hitting. If most people cut their fletchings off an arrow it might not even stick in the target, fletchings correct alot of it and they never notice until it hits an animal that so much momentum is lost when it's coming sideways lol..Great video guys!

Awesome stuff! Overall, I care about foc because it gives me an excuse to tinker. When us guys are really passionate about something, we like to tinker and experiment, and it gives us the perfect excuse to buy stuff haha.

Worth every minute!!!!

Hey Brandon I’ve found great arrow flight with a gold tip kinetic pierce platinum running Valkyrie 53 grain ss sleeve and the 180 grain tip. 580 taw 17 percent foc. It’s lights out and has help up better than the vaps I built last year with the 21 grain aluminum and 200 grain tip.

How fun! Outstanding!

Great video

90% of Archery 🏹 is mental, the other half is physical...Yogi Berra 🐻 !!

Another great video. Search "Randy Ulmer on arrows". In a 1:20 minute video, he assigns some weight to FOC (pun intended) and details the whys and wherefores for his decision to add additional weight to the front of the arrow. I give considerable deference to Dr. Ulmer due to his uncommon success as a target archer and bow hunter. Additionally, I would give the arrow a greater percentage than the bow in any equation summing the parts of archery - the shooter and his/her release quality gets a very high percentage in my mind.

Awesome. Pure awesomeness.

I really appreciate the educated conversation and discussion. It is almost surreal. However, everything you stated is in 100% in agreement with Troy “The Ranch Fairy” Fowler. He follows the Ashby report as accurately as possible. His theory behind the high FOC, sharp, cut on contact broadheads is not for the perfect well placed shot.It is for that shot where the Whitetail jumps the string and you hit the shoulder. We all have that shot where we place it perfectly but the deer moves. Then we watch our arrow runoff with the deer and wonder if we will ever find it. Troy‘s theory is with the higher FOC, that Brodhead will not stop at the shoulder or the other shoulder but at the ground.

I don't worry about foc.. I build the arrow.. tune the bow and the arrow together and then kill things. 430 to 530 seems to be a sweet spot for me 485 ish. Cool video really enjoyed it. Thanks guys. And if you don't agree with the fairy 100% all the time he gets mad.

Elk river archery sells aluminum footers for a good price, a friend of mine borrowed some arrows that had those colors and that hit insert system. Shot one directly into his gravel driveway I threw it on a spinner and it looked perfect. Well it looked perfect after I put a new Field point on it. Those calors definitely help

Gteat debate gentlemen, you two need to do this more often.

I loved the show. Being a low DL guy I can say FOC makes a difference for me. The long DL people probably don’t benefit as much, because they have the horsepower and don’t need as much FOC as us short DL people.Now, I totally agree with perfect arrow flight and arrow integrity. My setup is 250 grains up front, total weight 515 grains with a 60lb draw and 27.5 DL. My setup is 18% FOC and it doesn’t cost me $60 an arrow.

I’ve shot fix blades forever except half of 1 season I shot a big brand mechanical and hated it and went back to my slicktricks.. that said if always got my arrow light and fast idk just my cup of tea… anyway gr8 video y’all!

Awesome Collab.

Really good video!! Great job guys. Brandon you said you like micro diameter arrows, have you tried the 4mm Black Eagle Ximpacts? If you did what did you think?

I needed to be reminded every couple minutes you were talking about arrows... "So let's talk about penetration... you have a microdiameter shaft..."

Well that was cool. Im somewhere in the middle i suppose. Vaps with their new insert/outsert have held up awesome for me. I get around 15 percent foc with an oal weight of 460 grains.

Having some FOC should help with arrow flight with fixed blade broadheads, because it gives the force from the fletching a longer moment arm and the broadhead a shorter moment arm to the center of gravity. This gives more steering control to the fletching and should make the system more forgiving overall when human error comes into play. However this does not make up for not having the bow and bare shaft tuned. I've been looking at Dr. Ashby's research for about a decade now, and am glad to see that it is being practiced, discussed and scrutinized. It all leads to a better understanding of our sport.

So, I shoot a (I bought it new) Mathews switchback XT, and shoot Easton axis arrows. I was getting low on arrows, and went to my archery shop, and he happened to still have 2 dozen of the Easton axis arrows left over(they were a newer camo pattern). He sold them to me at a discounted price, to get rid of them. So my question is, why do guys like me, scare you? I use to not really shoot part about 40 yards, but I went on my first elk hunt last year, and started growing my distance. Only got up to 60 yards, feeling very comfortable, but plan on getting out to 100 this year. But I don’t plan on ever try to shooting anything past 60. I just figured that practicing from further out, will make me more comfortable at closer distances.

Long time no chat! Hello my cyber friend(s)...LOVED this video! I am always an engineer first, and plan for the worst, hence loved jumping on the HFOC bandwagon from the 1st day I saw it...just made sense to me (after losing 2 deer in my youth with "charted" arrows). Also I would love to remind Ya'll that FOC is #3 on the Ashby report...behind integrity and flight...You're preaching to the choir. Maybe alter your "tune" to better educate the yung'unz (or offer a specific video lineup) for beginners. I, for one, had a bit of a time learning the HFOC process from "just" RF videos (whilst learning how to be a bow mechanic at the same time). I think between the two of yinz guys, ya'll can figure out a way to teach the masses in a clear concise method. More collaboration, in an outline form, with respect to cost/draw weight/draw length/finger vs release/gpp for trad vs modern...should I go on? I digress, but am serious that I believe you 2 are better teachers than RF, however, would not make a big deal about #3 on the Ashby report, only to what the impact is on downrange flight characteristics, impact on dense bone, and sight picture...and put it in a "let you decide" manner. My 2 cents...PEACE! psst..BRANDON, still waiting for you to make a "meat puppet" video...