Average Runner vs Elite Runner | London Marathon Deep Dive 

4:45 vs 2:11 Runners’ London Marathon Experience

Well done, James, maybe one day, with a bit of practice, Chris will be able to run for 4.75 hours.

To be fair, James maintained his heart rate and pace for about the same amount of time as Chris.

1:09 Love how Chris rates his 2h11 marathon as a 1/10 effort on Garmin 🤣

I was given some great advice for my first marathon last year for setting goals: 1. To finish, 2. To finish running across the line, 3. To run all the way, 4. To try for the time goal. I used pace pro on Garmin targeting 4:30 and walked one incline at about 38k (it felt like a hill but felt like nothing on my training run today). Managed 4:33 and was really happy (it also rained almost all the way)

I really enjoyed this format. Hope you continue this type content very interesting 😊

Omg Andy hasn't done a marathon yet, is he even a real runner?? 😂😂

Ran my 1st marathon last Oct. Had a cold during race week. A goal was a 5hr finish, B goal was just finish. My HR was running 10-15BPM higher than my training runs and I made it 23 miles then had to walk/jog the rest. Finished at 5:26 and was in physical shock. It motivated me to keep training as I knew I could do better. Ran another in April and finished in 4:58. I felt redeemed getting a sub 5hr race in!

For the 2019 Dublin marathon, I aimed for 4hrs 30mins. I set up my old garmin 30 watch, to display only three things, average pace per K, keeping it below 6-23 meant I'd finish under my goal time, current HR, if it went too high I slowed down, and finally distance. My first 10K was 1hr 3mins, 20K was 2-05 and 30K was 3-09, had two bad K where my time dropped to just over 7mins, didn't panic, my average pace never went above 6-23. The average pace did edge up, and I must admit to 'sprinting' at the end, chip time was 4hrs 29mins and 50secs 😇 I must confess, that I stopped three times to say hello to friends on the side of the road, once I even did a U turn after hearing my Sister, ended up hugging her, could only wave at my Wife as I sprinted past, god love her, she had waited just before the finish to see me, and I couldn't stop. Imagine if I had of stopped and finished in 4hrs 30mins and 30secs 🙄 Hitting that time, was the itch scratched, so in 2022, I high fived every child, stopped for everyone I knew, I even stopped and chatted with a radio presenter, I stopped for my wife this time 🥰because you need to fully experience a marathon. Your finish time is just a number on a website, the memories stay with you for a lifetime.

Thomo! Will never forget his absolutely epic Olympics qualifying run at Kew Gardens; amazing runner.

So interesting! Didn’t know stride length mattered so much 😮

My advice for your first marathon Andy? Slow down and enjoy it. Enjoy the scenery, enjoy the comradery, and enjoy talking and getting to know your fellow runners. Most of all, enjoy the experience and soak it all in.

Really enjoyed that folks. Great breakdown of stats and comparison of quite different runners.

Guessed we need another video on stride length vs cadence and how to improve each of them efficiently for future running workout!

Marathon experiences certainly vary. I find this fixation with goal times, and, in fact with the London marathon quite nauseating. London was fantastically organised, and that is my lasting memory - wow - superb logistics for so many people - really astonishing. As a runner's experience though it was supremely tedious - like driving your car on a busy motorway at 70mph in second gear, and whilst it looks great on the telly, there is nothing interesting to look at if you are a participant. I am glad it exists, as a huge amount of money is raised for charity (I was a charity fundrunner), but I have no desire to do it again. A trail ultra is prettier, less congested, frankly easier, and overall a more pleasant experience. Clearly at some point Andy will be worn down to run a marathon, but for goodness sake don't run the Thames Path for a goal time, do a trail event because it's a nice day out.

Superb content - so many useful insights. I'll be watching this one a few times. You've been smashing it RC!

Really interesting. Would definitely be interested to know more about the training you both did. Especially James who ran the same time as me in my first marathon. Thanks for the great content as always.

Great content. In part two it would be interesting to see what the differences in training are. If you could interview a sub 3 runner that would be great. For my first GREAT marathon I had set a realistic goal then reverse split it. GOOD LUCK!

Really enjoyed this session! Thx.

This video format is great!

This is brilliant! Data and precise planning the key to improvement at any level

Thankyou so much, especially james, for your vulnerability sharing your data and experience with us. Since if i ever run a marathon it'll definitely be closer to 5 hours than 2, its more meaningful to hear from you about it!

well done to both of you guys, I've just completed my first marathon and I took it as an enjoyable day. not stressed on the time and I did in 3 hours and 45 minutes

This was a really interesting discussion

Really interesting, thanks for this!

A great video. Nice to see some of details of elite running that us more 'normal' runners don't see, like how you grab your water bottle and how it affects your stride. Also, good to see that James' experiences mirror mine when things don't go to plan although I'm not exactly sure how one enjoys the last km's of a marathon when I tend to be so tired.

One of the best marathon experience vlogs I've seen.

35?? That is incredible, James!

wow great content thanks for the video! such a great reminder on stats and always practicing feel -- for my next race I want to look at my watch less

Our times don't match up but James's marathon sounded very much like my last one. Went out chasing a time I didn't think I could do, was already having doubts about 7 miles in and the wheels fell off around mile 14 and I had to run/walk the rest. Given the similar situations I'd love to see a video that covers how to approach the next marathon after having one like that. I'm trying again next year but definitely need to do something different

I am definitely in James' corner. My finish times hardly ever match my goals. Go James!!

I would definitely have liked to hear a bit more about James’ experience here, and in particular how to handle things when you do crash mid race. Mostly because this is something I’m still sadly more likely to do than get perfectly flat pacing!

Love the content!

What a brilliant video!!

Quite possibly the best TRC content yet. This is so good and informative.

Really enjoyed this! Pincer movement made me laugh 😂 Not thinking of running London any time soon, (first would like to get to 10k and a half marathon in beforehand) however it is one on my radar. So interesting, especially the stride lengths! Will be thinking about this on my runs now ☺️🏃‍♀️

Well done James, still a fabulous achievement!

Well done, gentlemen.

Great video. Loved the comparison between stride lengths and ground contact times. Would love to know how to increase my stride length. And also Andy "first marathon later this year"??

Not any kind of real runner here but is anyone else more impressed by the dude who ran just under 5hrs. Hell I can’t imagine the mental demons you have defeat to keep pushing that long.

That was great, i love the data too. Would like to see simular stats comparison between Sarah and Mo

James, my London experience was almost identical to yours. My PB is 4.02 but my training was less than excellent this year- randomly I decided to set off with the 4.00 pacer, just cos he was there and navigating through the crowds! Lasted till half way, fell off and finished in 4.22. Feel sad about it as may be my only chance ever to run London.

that was super interesting

Loved the deep dive into stats! Was James' averages based on both running and walking or only when he was running. Both approaches have pros and cons. But eg for stride length, I'd be more interested in the average value only when he's running.

I will definetly tell you everything about my feeling after completing my first marathon in october. Since you guys are my main source on tips. Alongside my thrustee training program of course. I'll go with the same objective as my first half-marathon, A:enjoy the race, B:finish it, C: dare I say under 4hours ? I was thinking of sending you guys a question regarding my first marathon to the podcast anyway, whilst training this week, with my location to please the Button Pusher Rick as well.

I feel you, James. I was in a 10k race on July 1st, and I was targeting a PB. I tapered. I carb loaded. I tried to get more sleep. I warmed up. I bombed out on race day, and it wasn’t even close to my fastest run at that distance in the last month - I even had a 24k run in mid June where I did the final 10k faster than I ran 10k on race day. But there’s always going to be another race, and it was interesting going into the data to see what happened. In my case, the route was along trails with frequent medium sized hills and sharp turns, and I never really was able to hit and maintain a comfortable stride - I kept having to switch gears and go around sharp corners, and every time I did that I lost momentum.

But nah this was a great insight and top video. I love data!!

I have no idea how to mark myself on that 1-to-10 scale on my Forerunner 245, or the how do you feel--o-meter. If you are hitting 10 on the former you've got to drop dead on the line haven't you? As for the latter: who feels "normal" after a run? I usually give myself "strong" on the basis I am still upright. Fact is, I don't usually get round to making notes until I've showered, coffeed and changed. By which time I'm OK. Should I score myself immediately I finish?

Wow, James! I wish I could run almost 5 hours!!!

What were their respective Strava-generated effort scores? Were they comparable? This would be interesting, if you don't mind sharing

I did my first marathon the week after London. A local one that passes within 1.7 miles of my house here in Dorset.The North Dorset village marathon which isn't the flattest but a lovely friiendly small event with just a few hundred runners.I hoped i might be capable of sneaking under 4 hours but really wasn't sure and as i had only been running a few years and am nearly 50 somewhere close to 4 would be ok! All my long training runs up to 23 miles were done at zone 2 HR for atleast the 1st half with a faster finish and this was the plan. Soon after the start it was pretty clear i had thrown the plan away! first couple of miles at 7 min something ,3rd i managed to go a few seconds over 8!, but then back in the 7's until the 9th mile, i realised it was too fast but felt good and was struggling to slow so at some point made the active decision to just go with it and see what happens,knowing that i would bllow up in some way at some point. i passed the halfway point in 1hr 46 so about 16-18 minutes quicker than i had planned. By mile 14 the outside of my knee was starting to hurt followed by my hip but although i was slowing it wasan't till the 17th mile that it dropped to 9 min/miles and 4 hour pace. Between mile 19 and 20 it was really hurting(and i was passing junction to home,very tempting!) and i started to have regular walks,once i walked once it i just accepted it and took more walking breaks. I had banked so much time i knew i had the sub 4 and kind of gave up mentally and accepted the sub 4 which i got at 3:54. Felt happy about the time, being pretty much absolute best i dreamt of but although i was in pain and a little broken,i looked around at everyone else finishing after me and they all looked worse and like they had given it everything and i had slight feeling that i had bottled it. Still now months later i am still a bit mixed up on how i feel about it.Probably need to try again next year!

Question for both runners - what is your VO2 max at the moment and what does your Garmin race predictor estimate your marathon time would be?

Even 155 cadence seems pretty low. I think it would decrease risk of injury if you would work on that.

I don’t think Garmin paid you enough for this video…… I might need one now

Good stuff. James should have slowed down right away though - 05:54 180 bpm (likely Z4 Threshold) after 15 mins and trying to sustain that pace was insane lol

Intro joke alone was worth a thumbs up.

Brighton here I come.... My Garmin says 5hour time currently.

So cruel to release this on ballot rejection day lmao 😂

I am a 315 for marathon long distance runner. For the last 10 yrs j have applied to the draw for the london marathon, and for 10 yrs i have been unlucky. What can i do to finally be able to run in the london marathon? When i was a child i joined my dad to england to the marathon and it had a huge influence on me. I wish to close circle.

Incoming thumbnail change about 2 hours from now heheee

Don’t worry James, you have a comrades finish under your belt.

Nothing new on race day! I pootle around a marathon in about 4hours (+/- 15 mins depending on temp) and never try to finish in under 3 hours as that would be something new on race day.

I don’t think the wattage for Chris is very accurate. Running 3:30/km pace for me is 320W avg. I’m probably a similar weight to Chris. I don’t think he doing 500W avg at 3:07/km

W vid

Andy should run a marathon in 2023.

I'm a bit confused why Chris wanted to go from a 5 hour time to sub 4? Isn't he just coming back from serious knee injuries 😳

Well ... can't say James is not a good sport.

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