B0XX and Frame1 Review/Comparison 

That’s such an understatement. Less than 5 min in the video he pulls out an Excel analysis with simulations on the lifespan of the buttons lol

Lmaooooo

The fuck do you expect

It's funny now the BOXX is the only one of these smash arcade boards that can actually be bought. Frame1 has been out of stock for a pretty long time.

oh no no no

@@AL-lh2ht B0XX stepped it up too, they have MX switch options and Matte options now, I wanted a Frame1 but it's just never available for pre-order

Do you have your frame1?

​​@@magicbread8111Probably doesn't their customer service is terrible

I love GN, they definitely inspired me in wanting to collect data and whatnot to try and explain myself haha.

How long is shipping?

@@jadelag If I remember correctly, Greg said that the controllers would ship out roughly around late January or so, give or take some time with delays. I'd check the website and/or the Discord for more info. I don't know how long it's going to take once it's shipped.

Thanks a bunch! Glad the noobish editing wasn't too noticable haha

It's funny now the BOXX is the only one of these smash arcade boards that can actually be bought. Frame1 has been out of stock for a pretty long time.

Haha I mostly post stuff on github/discord, but I figured a video would suit this information best. I do have a few plans for other videos though, like DIY tutorials and other reviews

@@CranesLab well, you’ve got my sub. i’m excited to see them!

no prob haha

Glad you liked it! I never expected it to be randomly recommended, much less interesting for those who weren't already into these types of controllers. I'll try to improve the video production value in my upcoming projects, because the echo/lighting in this video annoys me to no end lmao.

Kailh/cherry silvers are pretty close in force levels and actuation distance to sanwas. If you go optical, there are optical silvers which would be similar force levels and actuation distance. And there's the option of optical yellow which has the same actuation distance but decreases the force level. The biggest reason that controllers built like keyboards are less common is that they are much much more complicated to design. Especially opticals, those are so much more complicated to work with. Both normal mx switches and opticals require a custom pcb to mount the switches, and a very custom case to mount the switch plate and pcb to. A controller that uses arcade buttons in comparison only requires a top panel with 24mm holes cut in it, whatever case beneath the panel, and you can run common button wires to an existing pcb like a brook board. It is much easier to design a controller this way, and it is much easier to source parts this way. It ends up being much more expensive though and uses way worse switches as a result.

haha thanks! I make diy box controllers and circuit boards, and help other peeps to make their own. I just finished a website actually that documents the projects I've worked on if you want to read about some of the stuff I do: www.craneslab.xyz/

Thanks! I have a few ideas for videos that I'd love to make sometime in the future. It might be a little while though as I'm pretty busy with university, looking for jobs, and other projects.

LOL

I really like switches with a good tactile bump. This isn't a tactile bump though, it's more of a disturbed linear switch. chart-studio.plotly.com/~haata/506 This is a force curve for a proper tactile switch. The Sanwas disturbance feels unintentional and clumsy in comparison

@@CranesLab ah okay that makes sense. I guess now its just a great vid!

I am glad you liked it! I would have been happy if the video helped at least one person learn something, so I am very happy that the video has been seen 25k times!

Thanks a lot!

Ideally, your wrists/hands shouldn't be resting on the case if you care at all about maintaining proper ergonomics. Also as long as your controller is in your bag it should be fairly insulated from the elements I would figure

(Realized I originally replied on the wrong account, whoops) That's a good question! As for the top panel at least for me, the warmth of my hands heats up the top really quickly when I rest my wrists on it. Also I think a lot of people float their wrists so they don't end up touching it. I've heard that's more ergonomic as well. As for the bottom, the rubbery stuff is very neutral temperature wise, so if you play in shorts and it touches your legs you'll be all good

Thanks a lot! Happy holidays :)

I'd have liked to cover software differences, but there aren't too many and most can be found on their product pages. I wanted to keep the vid around 30 mins or less so I decided to not include that

Yooo that is genius. Lemme know if it turns out, that actually sounds like a great use of that stuff haha

@@CranesLab Will do, I'll post in the DIYB0XX Discord!

Thanks! Yep any of the normal brook boards fit in the F1. It's even easier then my boards to add haha. You just slot it into the pcb

@@CranesLab oh shit that’s awesome Doesn’t the GCCMX have a slot as well?

@@coolpikachufan01 yep it works just like that.

Np! Yeah I really am not too sure what happened with the audio. I did a mic check before starting the first recording and it sounded fine (and it sounds fine for a while). I think it started echoing after I stopped and restarted the recording while I was getting some resources. For future recordings I'll definitely mic check every time I restart recording to help catch stuff like that.

Ay the b0xx is still pretty decent at least. Glad you liked the vid!

That's definitely a possibility! I might buy one when they release

Ay thanks! This is actually my first vid, and it sorta requires a bit of previous knowledge about Melee/controllers to understand, so I'm very surprised that this many people have seen it and have subscribed haha. I wasn't really planning to make other videos but seeing how a lot of people enjoyed this, maybe I'll review some obscure controllers and the various keyboards that I have!

@@CranesLab dude you shouldn't be as surprised. The way you tackled each of the controller strenghts, areas of improvement, what was simply your preference, it was all super well made and unbiased. The part I loved was the graph in which you demonstrated how muh strenght is needed to push the button and funnily enough, it made absolute sense to me and I could imagine the feel just by your explanation alone lol keep 'em coming dude, I' lo make sure to watch them as soon as they are released 😁👌

@@tsukimaru131 thanks so much! I'm really glad people have been enjoying it. Hopefully I'll come up with some more video ideas haha

@@CranesLab here's one at the top of my mind, as a fighting stick iliterate I'd be damn curious on the process of building a fighting stick/box like the ones you showed in video :o

@@tsukimaru131 Oh true! I'd love to make a video guide for making a DIY controller

The software is pretty similar between them. The only differences are that the B0XX has a couple of extra timing based nerfs which are not required in any ruleset, and the Frame1 plans to have an input remapper.

I think being used to a layout like the hitbox would probably help as you are already used to using all of your fingers at once.

Ay thanks! Glad you liked it

It'll have a keyboard mode I think at launch, which will let it with in any PC fighting games. (Both Frame1 and b0xx have that functionality) The frame1 also has a slot in it where you can plug in a Brook fighting board, which would let you use it like a hitbox on playstation/xbox/etc. The installation is super easy. The b0xx used to support that but last I heard they removed that feature for current/future orders.

I have a DIY tutorial in the works at the moment. Hopefully will finish that within a couple of weeks! I have a few more DIY videos planned as well.

The smashbox has the same buttons as the b0xx so I have the same issues there. It also has pretty cheap internal pcb/wiring. Besides that though it has really customizable software, so I reckon it's really nice for people who want to use one of these for all sorts of games. It sorta reminds me of the steam controller. Takes a lot to get the profiles setup properly, but can do things that other controllers can't.

@@CranesLab Thanks for the reply! Yeah that sounds like it has its own kind of niche then. Hopefully when the F1 gets the remapping software it will be able to achieve similar utility.

Do you mean you want something like the MPress, but with the more spread out layout that these have?

@@CranesLab , exactly. I want the length of it across my lap to be wider... that way it fits on my legs better (depending how large or small someone is you might have to sit with your legs closer together which is uncomfortable for males). Secondly, it is better ergonomics to have your hands wider apart. There is a case to be made for having the hands closer together to be able to use your right thumb for the jump button as well, but I know I would never do so and the same could be said for most. It should be even cheaper to make with less buttons, and the price point of the Frame1 light destroys anything else on the market already. The buttons at the top home, L3, R3, etc. wouldn't have to be nearly as large and wouldn't have to be super high quality which could further lower costs. I'm assuming the PCB would be more expensive, but if it was under $200 they would be the cheapest option on the market with a superior product. I don't know who makes this, but they would be leaving money on the table to not consider making a standard hitbox style version.

You have to open the b0xx to remap it, and the Frame1 team has a software remapper in the works.

@@CranesLab OK, that software remapping is pretty much the reason I'd probably go with Frame 1 frankly. Being able to make all the important buttons NOT be using my pinky is top tier and making the top row home instead of bottom is chef's kiss

@@manligi9701 Yeah software remapping is super nice. It's pretty inconvenient to need to open your controller to change the layout.

@@CranesLab I hope you or frame 1 makes an announcement when the software remapping is available because I may forget, but I'm still very interested in stepping my game up

@@manligi9701 They'll definitely announce it in their discord/on twitter if you want to hear when it happens.

I made one where the buttons were as close together horizontally as possible as well as vertically, and I found having them spread a bit out like this to be far more comfortable for me. It's definitely subjective though so feel free to try it out on a diy and see what you think.

The Frame1 and B0XX have Nkey rollover in the keyboard mode and controller modes. The Frame1 is 1000hz over USB, while the B0XX is ~500hz (it is variable since it is just spitting out data as fast as it can). For GameCube, the game itself decides polling rate. The highest I can test using Swiss to launch GameBoy Interface is 1000hz, which works fine on the Frame1. The B0XX does not work at 1000hz on a GameCube, it's max is 500hz. Glad the review was helpful!

Thanks!

Gotchu: F1 light - 2.595 lbs - 1.178 kg B0XX - 3.690 lbs - 1.674 kg F1 Heavy - 5.161 lbs - 2.341 kg And thanks!

Yep you can use any rectangle controller on PC in a mode where it acts as a keyboard, which would let you use it for other games

Thanks! I'd love to build a better rig for that in the future haha. Was quite the task to manually move the printer Z axis and type the result into Excel for a 1000 data points LOL.

Yeah the Frame1 plans to have a button remapping software for its own modes as well as for when you are using the brook board. They say itll be out after launch. I'd guess they'll be working on it after they finish all the current orders. Besides that, they both do the same stuff in software.

Glad you enjoyed! I wrote this up in a comment a while ago, I'll copy paste it here: The Smashbox and B0XX have a lot in common, and a lot of what I said about the B0XX compared to the Frame1 applies to the Smashbox too (like the Sanwas). Because of that it makes the most sense to compare the Smashbox and B0XX side by side. The B0XX has a much thinner chassis at 1.36" vs the 2" of the Smashbox. As mentioned in the video when I compared my 2.125" DIY to my B0XX, I much prefer the thinner chassis for portability and comfort's sake. The B0XX and Smashbox both use a glossy acrylic top panel. The B0XX's acrylic has chamfered edges which make the edges a lot less sharp. I believe the Crossup has done this too, but I think the Smashbox still does not. They are both glossy which I'm not a fan of as both are very prone to fingerprints and scratches, but I find glossy white which the Smashbox uses to be less obnoxious in that regard. Both use a steel sheet metal chassis so both are quite rigid, but the B0XX chassis has the corners and edges all closed and rounded off which I think looks a bit cleaner. The B0XX really outshines Smashbox when it comes to the internals. The B0XX circuit board uses a USB-C port for both GameCube and PC, where the Smashbox uses an aviator like connector that protrudes out from the chassis quite a lot for its GameCube cable, and a separate USB-B port for connecting to PC. I'm really not a fan of how far the GameCube port sticks out and how those ports are separated. The Smashbox circuit board requires a pretty wack workaround to function on PC over USB, where the B0XX board works natively. The B0XX board has hardware which allows it to operate over GameCube connections where 5V isn't present, notably when using a Mayflash adapter without the gray USB cable plugged in, as well as on GameCube/Wiis with dead rumble lines. The Smashbox does not work without 5V meaning it will not work in those scenarios. As for the firmware, the Smashbox does have a pretty in depth customizer tool which seems pretty cool if you want to play miscellaneous games with ease. If you are familiar with programming you could reprogram a B0XX using my open source firmware to do whatever you want, but it would take more effort. In short, the B0XX hardware does what the Smashbox does but in a cleaner and better way, as well as having additional functionality and features. And as for software, the Smashbox is easier to customize, but you could reprogram a B0XX with some patience. As someone who is fine with the modes offered by the B0XX, and could reprogram it if I wanted other modes, I personally wouldn't ever have a need for the Smashbox's only benefit, the customizer. But that is on a person by person basis. As for comparing to the Frame1, it sorta just does another evolutionary step, where it does all that the B0XX does but in a cleaner and better way. And on top of that, it has far better buttons than the Sanwas used by the B0XX/Smashbox.

Thanks! I use my own custom PCBs seen here: imgur.com/a/a7AVbIZ You can find more details about the logic board here: www.craneslab.xyz/projects/s And about the full controller here: www.craneslab.xyz/projects/mx These designs will be open sourced when I get the time to fully document them.