In SSBM, there are many nuances that surround L-canceling. Once you know all of them, the best way to L-cancel in the game emerges. b0xx.com / ssbmhax edited by / leeroyna
Regularly L-cancelling with Z is bad if you aren't on a B0XX. If you mess up an perform an aerial too early while you are still in lag or not in IASA frames yet then your aerial doesn't come out but then your FF L-cancel turns into a late landing aerial. A soft press on L/R does not have this drawback! If you are on GCC you should still perform L-cancel with L/R. B0XX uses Z because that's just the best layout they came up with. For example, my layout has light press R, hard L, jump and c-down on homerow, while thumb has A, Z, and the other cstick buttons. Essentially I can perform hard or soft L-cancel on homerow without accidental Z aerials while still having WD on homerow. However that's because most characters don't need B on homerow. For Fox this isn't really an option. B0XX layout was specifically made for Fox since what works for him in general will work decently well for others, however that doesn't mean other layout choices aren't more optimal for other characters. An additional button is freed up if your controller uses WASD or left thumb for analog Up instead of wasting precious homerow real estate. Unfortunately, right now B0XX and F1 only use 2 buttons for left thumb but 5 for right thumb. A third button to left thumb group would easily accommodate said arrangements allowing for Up to not waste space on homerow and freeing up non-Z light L-cancels and WD on homerow depending on if you're not a Spacie. Just thoughts to throw around in future design decisions.
When you say "stay in lag" are you meaning in hit lag for either the aggressor or the receiver? And what is a late land ariel? Trying to understand the argument against Z button L-Cancel.
It's really not lol, the b0xx is super designed specifically to be the most optimal for fox and no hard trigger on home row means you can't wavedash on reaction (unless you use pinky L, which is really awkward)
@@burntfish123 I totally agree it's objectively better if the objective is to play the game optimally. What if for some reason the mapping just doesn't work for me, and I don't care too much about being optimal? Especially with remappable alternatives entering the market, I think it makes no sense to force people to use the optimal mapping, when clearly not everyone wants to (just check twitter...)
Because it isn't. Most people aren't saying that Hax is incorrect, but that they should be allowed to modify their own product they paid for without some dummy throwing a tantrum on the internet.
@@burntfish123 but you could choose to swap L and Z, or Z and B, or Z and up or something, that wouldn't go against hax's argument about analog L cancel on home row, it would just allow people to customize the product to suit them. Especially apparent for disabled people or those with missing or limited motion fingers.
@@benjoleo You're arguing against a theoretically better button layout, when the Boxx's creator already tried to make it the most optimal it can be. That is ridiculous, let people remap if they want for their own taste or the specific game they are playing. If they are wrong point it out, but don't stop the ability to remap for other games too.
I mean to be fair it is, hax just doesn't provide a program for it. You can do it if you wanted to but you'd have to modify it yourself which is a pain tbf
People who have built a bad habit of full pressing the trigger can practice breaking the habit when they SHFFL by going to the 20xx hack pack and going to debug menu > training codes > l cancel options > and turning on "no l cancel on full L/R press". I've built up this habit myself but thanks to this video, I can start on breaking it. I hope this reaches people like me who built this full press habit
Excellent video once again! Superb stuff. I'll definitely be using this recommended layout as well. With that said however, I'm very disappointed to see the doubling down on the lack of remapping support.. (continued below) It completely disregards those who wish to play other titles, including fighting games such as CVS2, or Tastunoko vs Capcom (the latter of which is system locked to the Wii to this day), as well as those with physical disabilities. There are plenty of valid use-cases for a customer to want to remap their controller, and locking out the ability behind the pretense of doing it for their own good, completely disregards and diminishes entire subsections of your userbase. To expand upon the fighting game example, the inclusion of LS to the top row conflicts heavily with traditional fighting game input layout, and cannot be remapped through in-game means, and being unable to assign a jump input to the Mod/C-Stick zones also greatly inhibit the user from taking advantage of tiger-knee canceled motions. It's completely understandable and okay that a design laser focused around Melee wouldn't take these into consideration, but input remapping allows unexpected, and frankly unpredictable use-cases to flourish. By actively pushing against this, you're alienating entire groups of players, including those who play more than just Melee with their $200 controller, as well as those who may not have the same physical dexterity as your or I. If your concerns are as singular as wanting the best for your players, a default ship layout, and a video like this is more than enough. The vast majority of users adopt the default controls regardless. The decision to lock-down the platform only serves to hurt your image, as well as your chances of appealing to wider audiences, myself included. I've been a Box-based player for years in traditional fighting games, but did not like the Hitbox Company's policies, and built my own out of wood in 2014 (pbs.twimg.com/profile_banners/558118348/1455578167/1500x500 ). I've maintained throughout the years a support for the Smash scene's adoption of these types of controllers, as well as yours. I've lately been on the fence about picking up a box style controller, as a way to bring me back into Melee/Ultimate, and as an avenue for playing TvC and other games I have for when friends are over/a bracket comes up in the future. The only thing stopping me was the pricetag. The decision to disregard this entire subset of players does greatly upset me, and with the Frame1 recently showcasing a competitive pricepoint, AND support for other platforms plus remapping, I'd all but decided before any of this came to light that I'd be grabbing one. I know I'm just one customer, and won't pretend that I'll impact your bottom line, but please do reconsider your stance. This kind of attitude is exactly what pushed me away from the hitbox company in 2014, and is putting a nail in the coffin for consideration of one now. The Frame1 has been ineligible for pre-order for months, and will likely continue to be for some time. You have an opportunity to address those with similar concerns rather than drive them away. Even if it's too little too late for the existing design, a commitment to changing that for the future would do wonders. And you can hold me to my word, I'll get one. Thank you for your time & consideration.
This comment sucks dude. Hax should lock the control scheme to melee because thats what is optimal. If someone from the ffc wants to rebind it, they shouldn’t. And this isnt about a bottom line for hax. Its about letting more dudes play melee
The reason he did it is mainly for ergonomics as like he said. The way it would be made would be unergonomic as well as making grabs more uncomfortable making grabs harder assuming you switched z and r. I do agree it may be a good option. I will say hax's point about not having it is good.
all of the replies to this comment are frankly stupid and seemed to be from people who didnt actually read the thing they were responding to. button remapping is unequivocally a good thing youd be delusional to deny that
I wasn’t aware of the details of this tech. I always end up z cancelling now, after I tested it out to compare it to the full press R cancel I was so used to. At first I thought “how much better is using L and R to L cancel,” and then I tested things out in online play and saw using z flowed much better and more reliably. I spend less time in headspace while playing Falcon, since he relies a lot on maintaining momentum in part through a flurry of ariels. It’s great to know the “why” after switching an old habit. Awesome video!
except I want home row to be R X Z up because I play peach and not fox. I get that you're worried about boxx getting banned or people doing what they want with a product that they paid money for, but it's super myopic to not allow a button remapper considering the F1 has it. you're just being Sakurai
@@Altimor0 fair point, but i need to up b much less often than I need to wavedash. having to move my hand to wavedash matters more than having to do so for up b. people have different preferences and i'd prefer not to have to open up my box and swap wires to do this.
Neat, now show us why you think every single layout decision is objectively correct and no other remapping could in any way be more comfortable or optimal or ergonomic for characters other than Fox and for people who don't have issues with their left thumb. There is no good argument for why you should limit your customers from swapping a Mod button with L.
Ill comment on every one of these videos till I die. They have helped me so much in becoming a better technical player. Thank you so much Hax. Never cease to produce them, they are excellent.
I like the detailed analysis but would appreciate actual tips on how to execute said things. Are you meant to light press L then release then digital press afterwards in only a few frames to both analog L cancel and then early tech, or can you light press L then without releasing full digital press?
I think you should use different buttons, like analog press with z then digital press with l. Or you can analog press with r then digital press with l.
Im gonna be honest watching this over I was confused for I am new and also too stupid. So I looked up other videos to understand it better at a simpler level and what you're basically getting at is since full press activate tech it keeps you from teching after you get hit. So lightly pressing for the L cancel is better because if you get hit you still have the tech option ? Please correct me if I misunderstood this in anyway shape or form. Again I only have like a month in melee so I am super noobish at the game.
Button remapping should be allowed because not all your customers play fox. Not every character benefits from this configuration. Good argument for fox but this fails to account for every other viable character. The company that is more flexible and gives their customers options will always win because they realize that they might not be the smartest in the room other people can come up with their own remapping that is just as good if not better.
I really like this video, but hesitate to speed up, and have more rythm, it would be more diggest. Example : smash corner But the presentation and the profound understanding is incredible ! Keep up the good work !
yea i think in general, Hax's videos are too long, maybe he could make 2 videos, one whos just the summary, and the other with indepth examples and such.
synopsis; use light press or z to l-cancel so you dont waste ur teching input. early tech is good if ur going to get hit right away, late tech if you want to hold onto your teching frames for as long as possible.
I'm high and going down a melee rabbit hole. When I realized (about 5 minutes in LMAO) that this video was by Hax Fucking Money, it made me irrationally happy. I can barely shffl like a normal pleb, so you can imagine how much like Alice I feel listening to this about gravity aerials and box controllers and shit. Awesome to see Hax though; last time I saw him he was a TF one-trick in league of legends lol.
Not allowing easy remapping is frustrating. There are other gamecube games that would benefit from the ability to change the layout easily. The boxx could be much more useful since it could be adapted to work ergonomically with all of those games, which IS in the customer's interest. Perhaps someone will release a tool...
Isn't analog L-cancel the way it's taught? I thought that was how everyone did it. Idk if I'd even be able to full press a trigger and release in time to not accidentally shield sometimes
A lot of pros like Leffen and Zain hard press and advocate it as better because you will automatically tech if you are hit by an unreactable mixup you didn't expect. This however could also be achieved by Hax' method shown here by soft pressing to L cancel and then hard pressing during your landing lag. Hax' method is theoretically more optimal but also much harder to do. Literally doubling the inputs and requiring you to be able to release the hard input in time to not accidentally get shield.
@@abjoern I'm debating the same thing myself. I currently use Z (GC controller) and I tried hitting R during my landing lag like Hax said and honestly I don't think it's viable on GC controller without modification or maybe trigger tricking. While Hax method is technically superior Leffens hard press model seems much more practical especially on GC controller.
@@Saskaruto16 oh yeah, his method is obviously geared towards B0XX users. I think I'll stick to what I currently do. I don't think it's *too* hard to full press if you're expecting a tech situation and light pressing otherwise
@@abjoern Yeah it's mostly for the box. I will probably continue using Z to L cancel cause I find it easier to press it more than once sometimes so I can get the L cancel on whiff or hit. Then I just tech when I think I'm gonna get hit after I land. I main Marth anyway so it's not like I'm gonna be hitting people with negative on hit attacks and be able to tech out of their conterhit in practicality.
The reason Lcancel used L is the L stands for lag. When I was a young buck I was confused why L was used when you could use R or Z. The old school crew head grapers is who told me that.
Hax I am sorry I disregarded so many things about the boxx over the past 2 years. I just recently built my own box and I am realizing how useful all these videos are. While they can be super boring they have a lot of great info. Like Z being used for L cancel is huge and make a big difference but I will still use L/R on regular controller when I am using a normal controller. However I do still stand on the side of thinking the box should be banned until we can make everything balanced. The fact I can go in and literally make a macro for perfect wave shines on fox and map that to a button is not cool. Techically I think there is a rule against this but no one is checking controllers so the rule is pointless.
Z is the only button you can analog L cancel with on the boxx controller since none of the buttons are pressure sensitive and pressing Z on a gamecube controller technically counts as a light shield input
Digital inputs are either 0 or 1, on or off, pressed or not press, analog inputs can be anything between 0-1 so 0.25 0.5 etc., for example how far down you press the gamecube trigger buttons like in super mario sunshine, since the triggers are analog inputs the more you press down on the R trigger the more water Fludd squirts
For example, if fox CCs your nair, fox can shine you out of your SHFFL before you are actionable. This shine will be teched if you L-cancel properly. There are more interactions than just this that you would need to tech, this is just 1 example.
@@RTU130 The Z button is digital, yes, but it triggers the lightest light shield possible. You can't tech with it or powershield either, both of those need "digital L or R" inputs
@@rpotts i thought hax said not to l cancel with z because you could get locked out of tech. My B if I misunderstood im trying to figure it out, isn't it still harder though because hitlag?
