Part of the reason Baby Reindeer did extremely well might also be part of a problem that doesn't have a solution yet. www.wearesurvivors.org.uk 24/7 support line - 0808 500 2222 / stubagful
Genuinely fuckin mad that they went with that. What would they possibly gain to benefit from it? I don’t think the show became more popular because of it and now they have potentially multiple lawsuits on their hands
@@inkyberries6455 however there is a difference between something being said in a film/show by a character, and a caption in the trailer for a film/show ("a captivating true story" was the caption used in the trailer). Once a drama starts, everything you see and hear is fiction (even if a character says it's real) or at the very least might be made up. However if a trailer says it's a true story, it should be a true story, in the same way that if a trailer says it won 3 Oscars it had better have actually won 3 Oscars! (Note, again that a character can lie in a film and say they are an Oscar winner)
I think at least by the end they've told us it's not quite literal, also common sense. But I also kinda think he felt that people needed to understand much of it really literally happened to him. Because some of the things he shares are so misunderstood and considered so controversial that he could be horribly misconstrued if people thought he made them up. Esp things he experienced with his own sexuality after the SA. In hindsight, it seems like they should have just changed more details about "Martha" + deleted whatever old social media they could that leads to her.
As a man who left an abusive relationship, I appreciate the show, and nobody should get tracked down, doxxed, or what have you. I feel like I had a bit more healing wash over me. At the time, I did use resources women normally use, and these social workers did an excellent job, and I did get big wins. I kept my job and my phone number.
The point was not to find the villain because there are no villains. It was about trauma, a different perspective on stalking, how men are reluctant to come forward and rarely taken seriously.
I watched it in full about two weeks ago and found it fascinating, gripping, hilarious, disturbing and haunting… like the best of classic Black Mirror episodes but with the sinking feeling intensified because you know it was real. Highly recommend!
I love how whenever I watch one of your TV dissection videos it starts as a media review and then moves towards a deep introspective on society and leaves me empty inside, and then I have to restore myself with a rewatch of a 'He Who Moans' review
Yeah I've been going a lot more sociological since I started reading more books on theory. That's an idea actually, I might do something along the lines of "WHY has Doctor Who been popular for so long?"
@@Stubagful For me personally this is why I find your reviews to be very interesting because you really dissect the contexts behind a tv show or movie’s creative decisions or production etc. I wonder if you’ve seen the shown Dexter since it explores human interaction at its base premise and more specifically how our upbringings influence who we think we are - although the show does begin to dilute considerably after the fourth season.
@lonnie_toons The way he dealt with his stalker, going to her house and standing outside her window, going back to the guy who abused him and the fact that he looks creepy.
@@ds_1211 How is it victim blaming when Donny was just as culpable as Martha in the way he dealt with her stalking? Even his girlfriend said he enjoyed Martha's attention.
I feel kinda bad for Gadd. He expressed some incredibly difficult emotions through art and because of a few words of context, it's like the internet has taken his story away from him and twisted it into something much uglier and more harmful, like they've made the story about the people who caused him harm rather than about how he felt about it. We might need to just stop using the words "true story" until true crime fans can calm the fuck down and stop trying to take things into their own hands when they don't know nearly enough about anything and it's not their business in the first place.
The moment I finished this series I knew you'd enjoy it. One of the most raw and unflinching looks into so many topics that deserve to be talked about. Somehow I missed the giant media-storm around this work but it really does seem like an impossible problem for Netflix/Gadd/The Production Company to fix.
To be sure: Nighty Night was pitch black comedy but Baby Reindeer just depressed the hell out of me. The highlighting of how the entertainment industry exploits people desperate to merely get recognition is arguably laudable. There's just something off about it to me though, like it's a psy-op to distract us. Very strange that someone would re-enact his grape (algorithm) and the 'original' meltdown is not like the one in the show at all really. Now you have this woman claiming to be the Martha character and cashing in as well as the writer of this show...yeah, not buying it really. Netflix is suspect too. If you didn't know: there are links to Sigmund Freud. A bloke called Edward Bernays is worth looking into (book titled 'Propaganda'). I don't expect this comment to stay up but, hey ho, we'll see!
Come on now. The youtube takes on Baby Reindeer have barely started. A month from now, I expect every other video essayist on the platform to have a take. You're early! I watched the show a few days after release, knowing nothing except that it had good reviews. It was that rare Netflix shiw that I binged immediately and fully, with no regrets. I wish more of the discourse was about the artistry, which is much more interesting than "the truth." My view is that the show had a bit too much narration, showing its roots on the stage. Even so, it was brilliant. That turn midway through was like being hit by a bus - absolutely devastating. And also a perfect plot twist.
yea its gonna be fucking irritating, you just know their gonna have up their own arse with the titles like "the greatest Netflix show you've NEVER SEEN" or something like that. BY the way did anyone see Ripley on netflix, very good and tense but they ain't gonna talk about that either, to much Dialogue for those idiots
How could it be any other way? One is *surprise surprise* an actual crazy person with minimal self preservation skills. The other is pretty much the opposite - calculated, intentional manipulator with actual power over everyone he surrounds himself with.
I didn’t know anything about Baby Reindeer. So I am the hypothetical person. I don’t have much access to Netflix at the moment & haven’t heard much from the places I frequently visit
Went into baby reindeer knowing nothing about it. Had it on as background noise at first then had to stop what I was doing and actually watch it. As someone who’s been through similar traumas seeing things like SA presented in such a realistic way felt really cathartic especially the battle against the idea of a perfect victim. I’ve been turned away by the police many times and actually seeing that shown in mainstream media really helped me feel less alone.
Thanks for explaining this to me in a way that actually makes me see the appeal and want to watch it. No, really, I’ve heard about this thing from colleagues for months and thought it was a wildly inaccurate and shocking true crime doc. Which, turns out, is the opposite of what it is.
I'm at 0:29 - I learned what it was for the first time by googling it b/c I saw you posted a video on the subject - I've lost count how many times I've watched your videos on shows I've never seen, just a long time fan of "He Who Moans" and all your other sarcastic analysis...
When I get bothered by internet hate mobs, I just say this Manuel Varga quote from Better Call Saul "What you talk about is not justice, what you talk of is revenge.". Lack of Media Literacy existed before the internet with people missing the point of Starship Troopers.
"lack of media literacy" is the midwit's way of asserting superiority over anyone who likes media that wasn't intended for them. People have seethed at audiences for liking characters the author intended them to hate (Rorschach from Watchmen is a great example) or for liking media for the "wrong" reason (one of the more classic examples is Romeo and Juliet, which wasn't intended to be a love story for the ages, as they're dumb kids who make a rash decision thanks to their raging hormones). Decrying people for their "lack of media literacy" is peak I Am Very Smart.
good video! i am one of the hypothetical people who had never heard of the show. doesn't sound like my kind of show to watch but it's very interesting to hear about
I've clicked on this without knowing what Baby Reindeer is! All I knew is that "It was a TV show, or possibly a film." It's possibly because I don't give a damn about Netflix, and only get an account when new series of Cobra Kai is out. Now I love new films and TV releases, but Netflix exclusives never really interest me, so it's not something I pay particular attention to.
I'm also one of those (elsewhere in the comments) that didn't know what Baby Reindeer was/is. I don't have Netflix and as such tend to filter out associated shows from anything I hear about or read. Much as I do for any streaming service I don't subscribe to.
Yes I haven’t watched baby reindeer I have seen a lot coverage of it and I do know about the interview but haven’t watched. Mostly because I have to busy with the first episode of inside no.9 and return of doctor who
I saw this title and recalled having seen something about a reindeer mentioned recently, and I obviously didn't care enough to look up whatever whoever it was was talking about at the time.
I have heard of it through people at my work having seen it, but haven't watched it myself. From what I've heard, I know it's about a man being stalked by someone, but I don't know much else.
I've heard about it, haven't really paid much attention to it. And I don't think I'm going to watch it. So I'll just say before I continue this video, from what I know, it's about the writer/star's experience of having a stalker, and she's a lawyer, and also didn't go to prison. And that's as much as I know.
I don't watch Netflix. I virtually never have. I clicked on this video because I used to enjoy your Doctor Who material, and wanted to see something more recent from you.
l'm gonna be honest, l've only seen fleeting mentions of it and l thought it was another skibidi-toilet kinda thing,, the name just sorta had the same ring to it
I have never heard of this before. Probably because I move in scifi nerd circles on line not true crime and dark comedy circles but still. This is the only video I have seen about it.
The problem with that idea is as much a legal issue as anything else. As a phrase, it's effectively nothing more than a vital layer of protection against accusations of things like plagiarism or defamation - "based on a true story" is essentially the writer saying "look, I didn't randomly pull this thing out of my noggin all on my lonesome, but it's not gonna be 100% accurate to the reality of what happened either". Denying them the use of that clarification would just inevitably make it a lot more common for writers to be sued (probably often frivolously) because someone recognises significant resemblances to themselves/their lives in one of the characters or situations of their latest work and either aren't happy about it or want some share of credit (and therefore an entitlement to the profits). And it may just be me who feels this way, but I kind of think it's the people who insist on taking the phrase "based on a true story" and using it as an excuse to stalk/harass/doxx/threaten whoever they believe are the real people involved who should be penalised rather than the writers who use that phrase in the first place...
I haven't seen it, but I have seen the drama. What's fundamentally unfair is that it's a one sided story, yes he has the right to tell it, and express his viewpoint and emotions, and yes that's important in raising awareness, but giving someone a fair 'trial' means hearing both sides, and looking at the evidence. And yes even in a one way abuse cases there are still two 'sides.' And that's if we assume, nothing was added, or taken away for dramatic effect or just for more fluid storytelling (which it almost certainly was). It was inevitable she'd be outed, and she will now never get a fair trial (real or trial by media/public opinion) because people have been primed to see it from his perspective. I think they either should have not declared it a true story, or he should have written it for another actor, and changed enough to make it un-identifiable. I don't really blame him, I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to have foreseen all this, but how the lawyers at netflix didn't foresee this is insane.
Actually no idea what it was, and I live under a sufficiently insulating rock that I had only ever heard the name from dating profiles I swiped past. I clicked on this video hoping it would tell me what it was. So thanks, actually, summarised very well.
this is the first thing I've ever seen about this show so before I continue I'll make a guess that it's some sort of mixed reality TV thing of Borat's ilk but instead of for comedy it's horror-y.
I got no idea about baby reindeer. I figured it might be a Doctor Who thing, as Council of Geeks had a review about Space Babies. Could have been Space Baby Reindeer Babies...
Yeah i take issue with them saying 'this is a true story' at the start, when its actually 'based on a true story'. Its a slight difference, but i think it retroactively makes the show worse when real life events dont line up.
I saw multiple comments on the Piers Morgans interview of the real world Martha of stuff like: ‘Wow, season 2 looks great!’ ‘I am so looking forward to season 2!’ And that’s the thing. Netflix could put into production a season 2 of the recent events and I don’t think it would surprise me. The only thing stopping them is probably Grant himself and also the fact that season would probably get ALOT of backlash(which, of course it would, makes perfect sense). I wouldn’t even say this is an IRL fanfic anymore, this is just season 2 at this point. Anyways, great video as always Stu.
I'm not going to watch it which is a shame because I'm sure it's very good. In the past I have been on the board of ethics for a university and if Gadd was doing a practice based PhD on male abuse victims with Baby Reindeer as the practical half of his thesis then I would have failed his ethics application on these grounds. We don't allow students to quote social media verbatim because it is too easy to track people down. Not enough effort put into anonimising real people and lastly I would be concerned that the project could risk Gadds own well being. The university would still have let him make Baby Reindeer, he would have just needed to make some adjustments to protect the subjects of his film, himself and the University. I don't blame Gadd for any of this because if this stuff was obvious then we wouldn't need boards of ethics. Netflix has not done their due diligence to protect Gadd's well being, to protect vulnerable people depicted and to protect innocent members of the public from faulse accusations. It is notable that I May Distroy You which is also based of the real life experience of Michaela Cole did not have any of these problems. The BBC and Cole herself did their due diligence. It was such an impactful peice of television I don't think we could have possibly gained anything from the show depicting the people in Cole's life more accurately or quoting real social media posts/messages verbatim.
Watched it before hearing anything about it. Had no idea what to expect. I new right away it was a dramatized story based on events not a play by play documentary because I'm a adult. It's not formatted like a documentary and I've seen enough films. It's multi-layered and nobody is right or wrong. Both a victims and faulty.
Assuming Richard Gadd experienced all or most of all this, then I hope he makes millions. A lot of times predators destroy your financial life. For once let someone capitalize on it. I hope to one day too even though my experiences were nowhere near as bad.
Good, functional opinion on mob justice - the mob always gets it wrong imo. I think internet sleuths are fixated individuals that have their own problems and love pointing at others for their issues, as shown in "don't f w cats" and more recently "yellow jackets." Thank you for being one of the few RU-vidrs that wasn't a pop psychology wielding shark in the water about this.
Biggest issue I had with Don't f with cats was it felt almost like an endorsement of internet sleuthing. It made it sound cool and fun and interesting. The Elisa Lamb one was even more infuriating. The streamers need to take much more care when handling stories like this
@@Stubagful Agree. I can't remember the exact quote and I'm not going back to look, but the only poignant thing anyone said in don't f w cats was something like "I worry that we worked him up and toyed with his mind, and maybe if we hadn't this wouldn't have happened." That guy should have been reported, not stalked and abused online.
Glad something good came from it when i was growing up SA on males was always played as a joke or something a man would get made fun of for bringing up.
I refuse to watch this show because of how many articles and videos get posted about it. Shit’s so annoying. Feels like every week there’s news of viewers trying to be amateur detectives or something, or people involved in the show warning viewers not to do something, or it’s some shit about hidden easter eggs, etc. etc… ad nauseum! Ain’t no way this show is that interesting.
I kind of know what it is, but don't know the details. Sounds a bit awful. My friend says it's great, but I just don't want to watch it I'll just watch this instead.
I just thought it was a thought-provoking and well made TV show which was more interesting because it was true. At no point did I think 'can't wait to hunt down all the people real-life characters and ruin their lives'. But it's 2024 and I'm behind the times.
Ok so what I know about it is, without watching it. A male stalking victim and his experiences with the harassment. I also know that the stalker outted herself immediately and went on a tirade lol
Basically she says she claims she received harassment and abuse when people linked it to her. A lot of people don't believe her, but at the same time given that people incorrectly went after a guy they assumed was the other real life abuser in the show and given the history of internet sleuthing, I do believe it happened that way round
"[Talking about being abused] is an area men particularly struggle with." You're absolutely right. And society around them does so, too. Even attitudes from some "progressives" to male victims of abuse are appalling.
Started watching the show, and l dont think l have ever needed to pause This often while watching a show before. l wanna know what'll happen, but l just cannot stomach the sheer vicarious ickiness of the whole situation for more than a few minutes at a time (if even that), and l'm only at episode 3... The connection/""relation"" between donny and martha is like drowning in quicksand,, the more you struggle the faster you'll go under
I haven't watched I just don't think it's okay to expose a mentally ill, neurodivergent woman like this. It also seems a bit fatphobic and ableist.(The show) I'm not a stalker, but I'm autistic and I misunderstand social cues a lot. No bigotry or anything, but neurotypical people are such bigots and so narrow-minded. I would definitely take my own life if I was mocked and portrayed like this. It was not okay for him to do this. HE is responsible for what the internet mob is doing now. You can't just go "please don't do this or this " You know they will
It sounds depressing and miserable and not remotely funny. I love JAM but it's not based on a true story which makes it a lot easier to sit through. Are you gonna talk about doctor who? 😭
To be brutally honest I'm feeling like Mr. Gadd should have taken the advice they give to policemen: If you can't stand the joke, you shouldn't have joined. There's a reason why I've never become a public figure and this show emphasises the reason.
