Bad Advise for Beginners: "90% shooter 10% rifle"

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bad advise for Beginners: its all just practice
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This is something that Ive been meaning to make a video for a long time, we have all heard it when we started shooting "you just need more practice" advise like this coming from people you assume know more than you because they have been shooting longer, it really isnt the best advice either.
the problem is most people do not know their capabilities when it comes to precision shooting off of a benchrest and assume the 3" group is the best they can do with their skill level, and we encourage them to practice, the problem with this is there's so much more to it then jus that,
a 0.5" shooter with a 3" rifle will only produce a 3" group, a 2" shooter with a 0.5" rifle with the wrong match ammunition's will shoot 3" even if it should work, it might not, its advice we hear frequently, it 90% the shooter and 10% the rifle, this is complete and utter nonsense and couldn't be farther from the truth. it's likely more 25-30% shooter and 70% rifle, as someone who has wasted ammunition pointlessly following advise like this its time I spoke up.
in short, once you are properly set up on a proper benchrest, with decent instruction you should be able to achieve 1 moa at minimum, if you are not the following factors are to be considered as aggravating factors\
-proper set up on sand bags (for the basics the Caldwell sandbags a sufficient)
-torqueing down all screws (scope rings/rings to the rail/ rail to the receiver/stock to the action)
-Quality and price of the rifle (price typically means quality)
-Proper bedding the rifle (either no bedding/aluminum pillar bedding/ epoxy or resin bedding/aluminum mini chassis/ full chassis)
-using correct ammunition (Various different match ammunition depending on the quality of the rifle it will like more of the brands)
-decent quality scope (around 20x is good for groups)
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17 янв 2023

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Комментарии : 103

@EpikArms 8 месяцев назад

looking to support the channel? www.cdnprecision.com that's our website, thanks for the support

@forkthepork Год назад

For rifle shooting, it's 50% shooter, 50% rifle. For pistol shooting, it's more like 90% shooter, 10% gun.

@kinjunranger140 Год назад

No doubt. Just ask the Waco Kid. (look it up, this is a funny reference.)

@jeffwy5164 Год назад

For rifle it’s 50/50 when you take it off the bench and mess around with distances etc. I’d even say it’s 90/10 like the pistol when you start bringing in moving targets, offhand shooting, etc. I would agree, though, that on a bench rest, it’s mostly the rifle. Maybe not 90/10 but a high proportion.

@redrock425 Год назад

I think 10% pistol is off. I used to shoot a lot of pistol and a bad one would really hold you back. It's a package, unless shooter and gun are both up to it you won't hit much.

@jaydunnavoci Год назад

I remember a time when 1 MOA was the gold standard for a sniper rifle. Today people complain when their stamped, pot metal ,mass produced, blue light special $300 rifles aren't sub MOA. Its amazing how both the technology has improved and peoples expectations have changed along with it.

@jonathanromo2305 Год назад

That’s people unfortunately. They want the world and they want it 50% off the original price

@Pepe46873 Год назад

Depends on the rifle in my opinion. an old one with a bad trigger, low power scope and heavy recoil needs a good skilled shooter. A nice modern rifle, heavy barrel with a brake, amazing trigger and high power clear scope is basically a video game if it’s sighted in. Nothing is built perfect or identical , I imagine some sub moa guarantee rifles just barely passed QC and some put every round In the same hole, and those identical rifles could be side by side on a gun store shelf and you hope your the lucky one

@Quality_Guru 10 месяцев назад

I agree with you 100% based on my very limited exposure to long range shooting. I have only shot a long range precision rifle once and that was last year. The rifle with the scope was in excess of 5,000 dollars not including the precision rifle mount/rest and the custom made rear bag. The owner also loaded his own 6mm wildcat cartridge. He was shooting steel at 300 yards. I happen to notice that the rifle had an Eric Cortina Tuner on it so I asked a simple question regarding its effect. Long story short he let me shoot 2 rounds out of his rifle. I was able to put shots next to each other at 300 yards after receiving 1 minute of instruction on the use of the rifle/scope. I walked away thinking this is game of using precision equipment to reduce the variability within the process to achieve a favorable outcome.

@e7tegt503 Год назад

Agreed. Well said. Haters gonna hate. Nice shooting with that custom rifle.

@monsterk7603 Год назад

Totally agree. I wondered why I couldn't get 1/2 moa out of my semi auto rifles. Then I bought a Bergara. Things all came into focus. Love your videos, man. 👍

@kinjunranger140 Год назад

If I wasn't such a terrible shot, my Bergara is easily 1/2 MOA. But, I'm getting better. 🙂 hahaha

@EpikArms Год назад

Thanks man I appreciate hearing that!

@runrun8239 Год назад

I just started shooting last Fall. Yeah, I have been told to practice... from a guy shooting his $5000 rifle all the time... and I only have a cheap SKS

@bricharsstormsmeadowlakesk2653 Год назад

SKS is not accurate with surplus ammo. Even brand hunting ammo can be crappy. Get a bolt gun and chase accuracy. It's so much fun. You won't regret it. And you don't have to spend $5000 like the clueless guy giving you bad advise. Cheers and have fun shooting!

@runrun8239 Год назад

@@bricharsstormsmeadowlakesk2653 Thanks for the advice. I'm looking to sell the SKS and get a tikka.

@jeremyschonberger2333 Год назад

I would suggest getting a heavy barreled rimfire and to practice your shooting form and getting consistent. It's cheaper and you'll get more out of shooting a centerfire where ammunition is only increasing in cost.

@DefZen343 Год назад

practicing a trigger pull doesnt need ammo, just dry fire, you can aim at a pin hole in your wall at home or something just practice that way. reading wind or recoil control are things to practice with live fire but just trigger pulling and weapons handling doesnt require ammo.

@charlesludwig9173 Год назад

Your story reminds me of a 600 yard High-Power Rifle Competition myself and two friends participated in many years ago at the Oakridge Sportsman's Club in TN. We saw a guy there who had a truly magnificent match conditioned long range rifle. He saw us admiring his rifle and I guess thinking we would be interested knowing something about it, he proceeded to describe the rifle's features which he assured us would help him win the tournament. At any rate, me and my two friends each won all three of the 600 yard events. I won in match rilfle division, one of my friends won in service rifle division, and the other friend won in any/any division. On our exit from the range, we thanked the shooter with the magnificent rifle for his shooting tips. We told him his tips helped us to secure our wins. The moral here is the shooter with the magnificent rifle did not understand what's important to good shooting as much as needed or as much as me and my friends did.

@davidguilbert7666 Год назад

Well said, that guy that said you need more practice does not know as much as he thinks he does

@louissandoval5839 24 дня назад

You kind of described my new shooter experience 😃. Decent Hunting rifle. Excellent long range hunting scope . Only soft tip hunting ammo available. Fantastic shooting range. Trying to get precision results." What , these hunting scope rings are not going to cut it ?" " My rifle is broke , the screws keep coming loose". " What , I'm supposed to torque them ?".😆😆😆😆.

@brandonsmyth6505 Год назад

Great video! Everything you said here makes absolute sense and I agree 100%. I appreciate the video and all your content.

@EpikArms Год назад

Thanks Brandon!!

@dennisholle1005 Год назад

Thanks for the information!

@dannyadams1748 Год назад

Totally agree. Had a precision shooting 2 day course and was my first time shooting a rifle. Did revolver shooting for a few years about 40 years ago. Was shooting a Cadex Sheepdog in .308 at 50 yards and 20 bullets and my best 3 shots group at the end of the WE was 3 bullets in the same hole! Hooked! 90% rifle and ammo!

@EpikArms Год назад

Cadex is probably one of the only factory company that should be looked at like at a custom level. Their rifles are dam nice

@joelwalton4964 Год назад

I bought a tikka lite in 6.5 creedmoor this past summer and love it. Had a hard time finding ammo, so shot what I could find. Hornady superformance sst 129gr and sako deer head 156gr. The Hornady shot the best of the two and was right around the 1moa guarantee but inconsistent. Finally found some Hornady match and American whitetail recently. Shot a group with the whitetail that was 2.5 moa, thought I must be out of practice and it is cold. Shot my second group with the Hornady match 140gr and had a 3/8” group. A lot of truth to this video, find what ammo your gun likes because it really does make a difference. Reloading is the next endeavour.

@DLN-ix6vf Год назад

what's really helped my Rem. 700 223 factory barrels is a Harrells tuner/brake. I have gone from 5/8" down to 3/8" @ 100 yds. 5 shot groups with Sierra 69gr. loaded for 2800 fps.

@charlesludwig9173 Год назад

That's some really great shooting. You might try the 53 grain flat base SMK over 25 grains of H335. That is a favorite Service Rifle Competition reduced course loading. I typically can get a half MOA from it in prone sling supported position with irons. I Imagin a scoped bolt gun from bench would put em all in the SR-31 target's X ring for sure.

@DLN-ix6vf Год назад

@@charlesludwig9173 someone else told me about flat based bullets also. Those I will try but remember guys everytime you alter the bullet or especially the powder weight you have to recalculate the setting on your tuner. Even just 1/2 gr. changes your group size. Good Luck !

@javiersp01 Год назад

Exactly, i say the same, it´s common sense, we are shooting from a bench not off hand. The truth for me is 85% the rig/ammo combo, 15% the shooter. There is very good reason a custom rifle cost around +usd 6k. A quarter moa rifle costs seven or eight times what a moa rifle is. Thanks for another great video !!

@BenOfficial94 Год назад

Honestly things like this stopped me from shooting multiple times throughout my life, I shot 22 lr or a 7.62x39 and when I got mediocre groups despite practice I'd get very odd advices like you mentioned, what I was told as a teenager often was that "barrels and ammo only vary up and down, if you're missing left or right its you" and other things that just made me conclude I wasn't cut out for it. But I'm glad now that I'm older and more stubborn and have watched a number of informative channels/read articles now I'm able to actually practice in a productive way.

@NikeMS11 Год назад

Testing what ammo works for your rifle helps too. The regular consumer is not going to do this, as buyout the cheapest ammo will suffice. But those getting into the art of shooting will try different ammo and see what works best with their rifle. And those who reload and like tinkering with that aspect probably get the most out of their rifles. I am certainly the 1st and 2nd type, depending on the rifle and its purpose. Would love to start reloading at some point.

@bricharsstormsmeadowlakesk2653 Год назад

For 1, Remington 700 was good 30 years ago. 2. My Tikka 7mm rem mag does sub MOA with handloads, and horrible with match factory ammo. 5 different brands. Yet the only accurate factory ammo my rifle likes is Hornady American Whitetail with Interlocks. They shoot almost as good as my handloads. So my opinion is it's not the shooter no. It's probably not the gun. Even new Rem 700's as junk as they are still don't shoot that bad. It always boils down to the ammo. And not all rifles like match ammo either. It's all about finding what works. Sometimes that can be quite the adventure. Great video!

@poorthingproductions Год назад

The person that made that negative comment obviously does not watch your channel very often. Don’t you just love Internet trolls 😊

@obviousman214 Год назад

I can get 1/2 moa with my extreme budget setup it's awesome. Savage axis II in .308 with $20 bipod from ebay, Bushnell banner scope and the rings it came with (came with the rifle), bottom shelf aguilla 150 grain fmj target ammo, and a very large scarf folded over several times for the back rest. It took a while to adjust the scope and everything to fit me right, but once it got dialed in it's wayyy more accurate than it should be.

@charlesludwig9173 Год назад

@@bushinbritishcolumbia6935 Why do you say that when this shooter's experience is realized by thousands of shooters just getting into it just by pointing the rifle with consistent sight alignment and pulling the trigger smoothly utilizing smooth trigger control from a solid position. That's literally it to get great results. Fact is you are projecting your own experience onto another. That's to say because you can't do it you do not believe another can do it. So maybe the bullshit is what you're slinging here?

@robertjackson1407 Год назад

Thank you 😊

@fraserlordly2432 Год назад

Yeah rifle setup is what matters. I took my mom shooting a few years ago and she told me when I was a teenager. "you'll never own guns as long as you live in this house". So I haven't lived with my mom since Jan 2 2009. And she shot my .22wmr about as good as it shoots, and she hadn't even touched a firearm for maybe 35 or 40 years. And my .243 she shot maybe 1 moa.

@denisleblanc4506 Год назад

I agree with what you said, but there are a lot of people that don't practice enough. About 10 years ago I went to the range and the guy was shooting a cheap new rifle. He had trouble even sighting in. I gave him a short 15 minute instruction and he was shooting his rifle as good as I could with the same POI. He got his first deer with a head shot at 150 yards. The next fall I go to the range and he's shooting from 50 yards. We go back to 100. I fired one shot and it hit exactly where we had sighted it in the year before. Again I gave him a short instruction and he put his shot within an inch from mine. To this day he calls me to verify his sight in every year though I've told him he shoots as well as I do. Yes equipment does make a difference, but there are way too many hunters that don't practice enough. I see them all the time with expensive rifles and shooting about 4 MOA. The more powerful the round the worse they shoot. Now I'm not saying this for any RU-vidrs I'm following. They shoot great including you. They are all better than me. Are there cheap rifles that shoot MOA fairly consistently (3 shot groups). Yes I've shot quite a few. But I've only seen it when they happen to hit on a factory load the rifle liked. They returned with some other factory load and they were shooting 3-4 MOA and blaming themselves.

@jamespollard1670 Год назад

I agree with you . But I don't advise people to shoot a 5 or 10 shot group with a sporter barrel hunting rifle unless they give the barrel plenty of time for it to cool between shots . Most high velocity sporter rifles will shoot sub moa 3 shot groups then spray the 4th or 5th shot if it has a light weight barrel .

@EpikArms Год назад

Yep 100%

@loydta Год назад

Short and sweet. If you know you know. If you don't you never will . It's that simple.

@christopherdick8675 Год назад

It’s funny when people take one example of a rifle and get their feathers in a ruffle when it doesn’t shoot like their “1/4 moa savage axis”. As a hand loader I take pride in trying to make my rifles shoot better but it’s not always possible. and just because you got a one in 1000 rifle and it’s a tack driver and his doesn’t shoot all of a sudden he’s a crappy shooter. It’s very hard with these pencil barrel hunting rifles to get good consistent groups especially over three round groups. It’s very easy to beak off on social media but not put yourself out there for everyone to see or criticize.

@hadleyscott1160 Год назад

When I was younger I used to shoot around 100 rounds with 22LR at the range. Afterwards I shot my deer rifle for 20 rounds. Hand loaded 30-06. Every week. I became better. With the commonly used full sized deer target. Soon I was shooting the eye ball out. The rifle was a Browning bolt. Consistent practice pays off. But I think practice with the 22 was the reason. Since I reloaded my deer rounds I always looked at my groups and continued to adjust the scope. As long as I shot my habits the same way I could adjust the scope and it did bring the groups in. But again practice with the 22. Afterwards use your deer rifle as the finer tuner. It works.

@charlesbullee7215 Год назад

783 REM in 243 with reloads you can find a load that shoots .75 or better groups for budget rifle that’s pretty good and they have a decent trigger. So yes agree it’s a lot in the ammo to.

@donaldbruce8704 Год назад

It needs to be said. I have witnessed guys sighting in a hunting rifle and heat waves were visible coming off the barrel. Every year I hear bang bang bang bang during whitetail hunt. Wounded? Clean miss? The differences between a hunting rifle and bench rest precision can be pretty quickly realized in the pricing.

@shauno7582 Год назад

Agreed. But I’m going to say 60% rifle, 30% shooter, 10% ammo. My first cf I ever shot was my tikka T3X varmint .308 So went straight from a .22 -. 308 Took me 5 rounds to zero at 100 than after another 10 rounds of learning how to ride the recoil and trigger pull, boom.. between 1/2 moa- moa 3 shot group at 100m with the Sako 155g soft points. Not even match grade ammo. So yeah, your point my friend is valid! If you want accuracy buy once, cry once 😎

@davep3163 Год назад

Agree! It's positional shooting where practice matters! With a quality rifle a chimp can shoot great groups from a bench! 😂

@charlesludwig9173 Год назад

Yes indeed, the bench tests the rifle and ammunition. Sling supported position shooting tests and celebrates the shooter's knowledge and skill.

@edgargenatojr3712 Год назад

Don’t sweat the haters. You can shoot

@charlesludwig9173 Год назад

What it takes is proper shooter/target analysis to understand the source of error. The only folks who typically master this sort of training are Military Service Rifle and Long Range Shooters who have had advanced marksmanship training, which begins with the understanding that “the bullet ALWAYS goes in the direction the barrel is pointed”. That means when the bullet does not go where desired it’s the result of the shooter not knowing how to properly point the rifle which produces a singular or multitude of errors. At any rate, when a shooter becomes able to call his shots as going on or off call that shooter is poised to discern the source of error and correct it and if he cannot discern the sources of error he can still correct it by simply applying himself to honor the principles of marksmanship. Bottom line is marksmanship is the key to great shooting. Without Marksmanship training the match conditioned rifle and match grade ammunition only serve the shooter at short range where Marksmanship skills are not needed for good results.

@omaralzubaidy908 Год назад

I have a suggestion, can you ask the guy who told you that you don’t know how to shoot to put a video of his shooting with groups 😊

@akathecanadian Год назад

I bought a Tikka T3x in 30-06 recently and I’ve grown up with pellet guns so I have some experience with controlled breathing but it’s not the same. Yes nevertheless the idea is the same. My tikka does not like 180gr of any kind. It likes 165. The 180gr bullets were grouping between 3-9 inches in some cases and I was under an inch with 165gr. For a while I thought it was me and pulling or flinching. No it just likes lighter weight rounds

@redrock425 Год назад

It will be down to the twist rate probably. Fast twist is needed for longer bullets.

@derekclark7477 Год назад

Just bought a Tikka Veil Wideland in 308. I used the Mountain Tactical Raptor base/rings. I'm starting to work my way through figuring out what ammo my rifle likes for hunting purposes. Do you have a couple rounds that would help me not spend unnecessary time/money on figuring that out? Let's say that realistically I would not shoot over 600 yards in a hunting scenario.

@EpikArms Год назад

while this is the Canadian website id recommend starting with this. www.cabelas.ca/product/109329/hornady-match-centerfire-rifle-ammunition?productVariantId=393395

@charlesludwig9173 Год назад

I am a Military Rifle Instructor assisting the USAMU deliver SDM, TTT, and SAFS Training. From this experience, which considers my own training to become a good shooter and training Military personnel coming into training exercises, there is a preponderance of evidence that proper marksmanship training followed by a practice schedule will see the shooter get the best results from any rifle and ammunition. Training which covers everything important to good shooting can be delivered in about 3 hours: principles of marksmanship, positions, external ballistics, zeroing, range estimation, shooter/target analysis, wind and weather, angle shooting, and data/score book usage. Now, here's the rub, while some shooters can assimilate everything important to good shooting within the time frame the marksmanship instruction is presented, most shooters cannot put it all together after just becoming acquainted with it all, and thus practice is essential. The sort of practice and the amount of practice is dictated by proficiency demand or desire. For me, my desire was to reach the highest level in Long-Range and US Service Rifle Competition. I got nowhere with it until I got some formal training from the USAMU at Small Arms Firing School. From that basic marksmanship training it took me about 3 seasons of High-Power Rifle Competition, practicing about 50 minutes daily in exercises mostly to improve my standing position results, as that position was my nemesis. At any rate, knowledge of what's important to good shooting along with practice helped me to earn a US Distinguished Rifleman Badge and an NRA American Rifleman Award in Long-Range. The bottom-line is some folks can become really good shooters in no time, while others may need more time with it. The surprise to me, is Soldiers finishing up a week of SDM training have enough knowledge and skill to be able to get center mass hits on the E target at 600 meters from rack grade M4's fitted with an ACOG shooting Mk262 in virtually any given wind condition, simply amazing to me.

@EpikArms Год назад

Hi Charles, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this great to have people with professional experience share their take on this matter! Thanks for watching!

@Redacted-Information Год назад

truth!

@emmanuelbaig1585 Год назад

Can you do a video on the new Burris veracity ph scope

@EpikArms Год назад

Yep sure thing likely some time in the spring!

@JoeZelensky Год назад

Ammo factors huge into accuracy.

@OntarioBearHunter Год назад

You should work at a gun counter... every dude with deep pockets and short arms shoots sub moa with a Mosin and a Bushnell Banner offhand in a hurricane

@EpikArms Год назад

Haha that would be fun for a while

@michaelogden5093 Год назад

783 is pretty junky. I used one as a build and let me tell you, the barrel threads are as rough as an old corn cobb. Friendly advice... always ignore manufacturer's claims until they are verrified by a large sample of end-users that received their rifles off the shelf and not sent to them as a tester. Money spend and an impressive list of components does not necessarily translate into a good final product.

@Strengthandconditioning60 Год назад

I've seen people with expensive guns, expensive scopes and 10$ rings and they wondered why their gun shot like crap. Or expensive gun, expensive rings and a Tasco 3x9 scope. Smh.

@EpikArms Год назад

Lool that's hillarious!

@SimonTekConley Год назад

I've never understood the thoughts of, I'm basically going to put this in a vise so it shoots perfect every single time, and call that practice shooting. Once you set that up, you're basically eliminating all the faults of the person, so you're not even shooting, you are juat left with the imperfections of the firearm.

@EpikArms Год назад

Yep and that is my goal. To take myself as much out of the variable. I review guns not shooters

@salehmohamed2594 Год назад

What’s better tikka t3x vemant , tikka compact , bergara b14 hmw? For long shooting

@EpikArms Год назад

Tikka is a better action in my opinion but the hmr comes with a better stock overall the hmr is a better value

@rmarasco1420 Год назад

They are certain companies that guarantee 1 inch or better with performance. Remington's 783 is NOT one of those in this category.. You may get lucky, but I would guess most would not.

@almostontimehero5415 Год назад

When I read mean comments online, I become emotionally devastated, start crying and my week is ruined. Everyone should only say things I like or agree with.

@EpikArms Год назад

Literally! Time for me to buy youtube and ban the accounts of the people who have wronged me!!

@phillippearce9680 Год назад

👍

@Thousand_yard_King Год назад

My rifle goes out and shoots every Saturday! I wouldn't know what its accuracy is because it lies 😂

@ceremyjlarkson9475 Год назад

Pretty much can't disagree with you. Have had that before in my experience too. Once you get a rifle on a rest, it becomes the rifle's job to put in the work. Freehand, sure. But when it's all rifle, you can get some janky groups.

@kinjunranger140 Год назад

Who cares if you aren't very good? 99% of us aren't very good. Always remember, 99% of us think we're good drivers. hahahaha

@charlesludwig9173 Год назад

Your comment I believe is spot on from what I see at my local range. Some of the shooters within the 99% however do think they know something about good shootings to listen to them but just watching them shoot from a lousy position for a moment reveals they know nothing about good shooting.

@shanemonsour2001 Год назад

A good rifle sure makes it easier eh😉

@EpikArms Год назад

sure does Shane!

@jcjustice3786 Год назад

👍👍👍don't listen to idiots there is aot of them now a days.( I call them want to be's). That's an old military term

@josegomez3973 Год назад

First you learn proper technique, once you have a good form/technique then you can proceed to practice to become proficient. If you have bad technique and practice bad technique you’re just building bad habits.

@UltimateArms Год назад

its always 50/50 for rifle. a good shooter cant make a rifle shooter better that can't, and a expensive rifle cant make a shooter better its a equal balance between the two

@jameswilson5562 Год назад

For the guy who made the bad comment any day u want to learn how to shoot look me up I will get my red rider out and learn u some respect

@sk8snwmx Год назад

I always laugh the posts on 'gunnutz' of people who LOVE their 3-7 and 3-9 Leupold scopes and claim they can shoot 1/2 MOA groups out to 100m and 200m LOL.

@charlesludwig9173 Год назад

Interestingly enough a High Master Classification Long Range shooter can typically hold sub MOA at 600 yards from a iron sight match conditioned Service Rifle and 2 MOA from that rifle at 1000 Yards.

@ajsummerhayes4639 Год назад

Lol I'm just a crappy shooter. I've only clovered once in almost 1k rounds with what it likes.

@redrock425 Год назад

Shoot offhand then tell me there's no shooter skill 😉

@sergeyurman2300 Год назад

Not trying to criticize but it's hard to tell how many shots or how it was done without seeing the person work the bolt

@dan_5319 Год назад

Wait…. Am I understanding this correctly the affordable optics and “firearms” channel is telling me that what I need… is not an affordable rifle? Is he actually saying that when he’s wearing that shirt?

@EpikArms Год назад

Looooolll it's been a long journey. And when I'm trying to shoot long range or get tiny groups budget just doesn't do it. Ironic I know. Also I am planning a rebrand shortly. Thanks for the feedback!

@dan_5319 Год назад

@@EpikArms I totally agree with you....just going for a laugh. Keep up the good work.