Bad Media Criticism 

I think you might enjoy Innuendo Studios for an example or really good media criticism!

I also recommend Readus101

maaaybe glasses reflection if you wanna have a look at some anime stuff- and maybe Cosmonaut Variety Hour. isn't super analytic, they focus a bit more on comedy, but they're much more opinion-piece than deconstruction!

For the record, Lily has a history of self aggrandizement and actively provokes people and makes call outs for attention outside of attacking show animators. She's also criticized people in the pony community for doing the same things she's guilty of. -To be fair a majority of the pony community have no depth either...just that they're less aggressive about it.- I'm seriously grateful I discovered the likes of you, Lindsay, and Inneundo, Folding Ideas, and a multitude of others. I've learned to be more aware of the things media say thanks to you all.

Interesting analysis. Here are some of my favorite channels: -Georg Rockhall-schmidt (One of my favorite video-essayists) -Company man (Highly recommended channel about why certain companies like Toys R Us or Blockbuster go bankrupt) -Super eyed patched Wolf (Great video essays about anime) -Aleczandxr (Interesting videos about anime characters and their motivations) -The Pedantic Romantic (A great up and coming anime channel) -Shout out to my favorite "Theme park channels" Defunctland, Offhand Disneyland, Yesterworld and Bright Sun films. All of them are great.

did'nt she litterly flash a minor on a live stream

@@justaturky2890 yes

​@@justaturky2890WHAT??

@@LJXrot yeah....

Lily Orchard calls everyone a creep, ignoring that she becomes the very thing that she calls out for regarding that Stockholm fanfic.

Agree. I really want to get into blogging, but I'm a bit of afraid that I would trap myself into the problem.

@Burning Blaze, Entirely my bad. I meant this should be required reading if people want to make critical content of actual substance instead of ragebaiting.

Moral of the video, don't make reviews your way. Be super nice and spam "in my opinion" over and over.

​@@bigsmoke3617 Nice way to totally misinterpret what the point of the video was. It's fine to be assertive with your opinion, but Sarah's point was that you shouldn't act as if your opinion is fact.

@@AwesomeSoxz Acting that your opinion is fact is technically impossible. It seems like you hate people who are confident and assertive with their opinions.

The "Cartoon critical" movement got really bad cause I felt like it got taken over by only Nostalgia Critic knock-offs and there's nearly no one who looks at animation from a technical/historical perspective. People like RebelTaxi and MysteriousMrEnter have grasped this scene and I think they are skewed so heavily on personal opinion. Saberspark is someone I like, but he tends to revolve around trends.

That's sound like YMS which nitpicks or criticize the audience that likes a movie than talking about what the movie is trying to do.

Yeah. I want a Sonic games to be like Sonic 06. Sonic 06 has some worth after all.

@@MayorOfEarth79 wait does rebelTaxi go after people the same way enter does?

The heck is a tea channel

Matheus Braz Channels that are there mostly to spread drama mostly about beauty gurus

@@moonlight_oats bruh i thought they were talking about literal tea lmao

@@Matheus_Braz I mean...if litral tea channels exist please direct me to them 😂

You mean where she lies and deliberately misrepresents what they say?

does 24:16 coutn

i'm so sorry i've let the entire video essay community down

Sarah Z lmaooooooo

I'm giving you my entire inheritance for this joke

Taylor J. Williams the worst part about every “video essay,” lmao. Lofi as a whole is such a lazy generic term

I love your videos. Your non-shitpost video are rather analytical and oftentimes focus on the subject's strengths and weaknesses instead of being overly nitpicky or condescending.

Has it though? Granted it's not like professional critics don't do the same thing, but that's neither here nor there.

*M Y M A N !* I knew Lindsay would be here, but this is a very welcome surprise indeed.

Says the man with clickbait titles.... :P

Didn't you nitpick about Big hero 6 and Wreck-it-Ralph 2

Emily Mahony LoL lily orchard joke?

This comment having no replies is garbage, and here's why

This comment having only 492 likes is garbage and here's why

You just made me feel like garbage and here's why

I am garbage, and here's why

Watch out, he might kidnap you for a killing game!

I'm shaking and crying

*_D E S P A I R_*

Bold of you to assume that she's not an ultimate despair

u p u p u

Hot-blooded & Half-German I’m happy that has a term

Eh, I think the saying "taking the temperature of the room" still describes it perfectly. The metaphor does a lot more work to makes sense of the situation as well. In the Schrodinger situation the "cat" is assigned a value statement and it is assumed to be true without the thought experiment even having taken place. The "taking the temp" metaphor calls to mind how hot-headed or cool-y indifferent people are on a purposed subject. The attitudes of people are given the value statement instead of the people themselves. Unduly applying judgement on people based on statements rather than attacking ideas is how you make these "Schrodinger's Douchebags".

Apt

@@vizerandevir6422 Um, disagree. I'd never heard of a Schrödinger's douchebag before i read this comment but it totally is a much more specific phrase than just "someone taking the temperature of the room". This should be obvious from the part of the video referenced by the OP (though maybe in the case described by Sarah Z the mistakes are honest overlooks and the douchy aspect is just the pathetic cop-out in lieu of an acknowledgment). Also, while I don't pretend to understand the Schrödinger thing because quantum physics = magic to me, it is def a pop culture thing now. maybe that's bad for physics literacy or sth, but it is a pretty whimsical image (and intentionally so, since the thought experiment was actually meant as an ad absurdum takedown of the more counterintuitive consequences of quantum theory at the time).

I'm adding this to my vocabulary, thanks.

👌

It’s literally in the original show bible she pitched. So yeah I guess Rebecca Sugar stole from fan theories before the show even existed

I wanna see the picture, can someone link it?

I thought everyone figured out that pink diamond "twist" from season one.

@@juhlsghouls she used a fascist time machine, duh

The video she is on about is 2 hours long. Here's the rebuttal video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ubvzdREIRj0.html

Ikr?! It's so annoying. *Cough* CenimaSins

One man's nitpick is another man's hyperspace kamikaze.

Check out Big Joel if you haven't already he might be my favorite media critic. he started with movies and TV shows and then wandered a little bit into politics, and he's so darn cute

@@kozhedub oh I love big Joel! Better yet, he actually watched this video too, I saw a comment of his. Plus his tweets spice up my tl

I know. Whether you think they're funny or not, you're an idiot to think that they're supposed to be real critics. CinemaSins has even gone so far as to admit they're not real critics. They just point out anything they could find wrong with the movie, even if it's as simple as a cereal box being moved between shots.

Same, tho I stopped watching them years ago, I find it boring now. But never took it serious. You can find flaw in any movie but also you can enjoy a movie with million flaws. It does not matter, if movie is entertaining that is what counts.

same

Same. I don't watch them as much now, but they always gave off the 'we're pretending to be nitpicky a-holes' vibe rather than the 'these little things make a movie horrible' vibe. they even admit to not being real critics. if your opinion on a movie is changed cuz of them, your being dumb

People took CinemaSins seriously???

Luigi Lanzoni haha!

..and you’re also blithely unaware of the fact that in 700 2e, Queen Dazzlora did a collected of cerulean gowns. And then I think it was General Flashstride - wasn’t it who showed cerulean military jackets? And then cerulean quickly showed up in the collections of eight different royal seamstresses. And then it, uh, filtered down through the high markets and then trickled down into some tragic village bazaar where you, no doubt, haggled it down to a few coppers. However that blue represents thousands of gold and countless jobs and it’s kind of comical that you think that exempts you from copying royal fashion choices when, in fact you’re wearing a sash that was selected for you by the people in this room from a pile of stuff

Pixiekiller Ein so good

*Ding*

@@PKEin I read that all in MatPat's voice

While I have no clue who lily orchard is, you can't be serious about trusting anything that vile excuse of a human being "eot" proclaims to be true? Her biggest reputation is that she is a borderline bully out to cancel everyone that doesn't align with her personal world view.

@@Mat-hr1dg use of the word "cancel" immediately makes me inclined to believe you're full of shit but regardless you're gonna need to prove that

All those big words and your long ass comment, and yet you say nothing at all.

Everyone knows Toriyama wanted it to end with Everything Wrong With The Amazing Spider-Man

I wanna say that was MovieBob.

that’s why i watch th3birdman

@@thetribunaloftheimaginatio5247 r/whoosh

45 seconds of logos.

Wew.

Until Thor Ragnarok and Black Panther came along to make things more interesting stylistically and in the case of the latter, thematically, winter soldier was the movie that made me give up on seeing Marvel movies in the theater. It's just so very very...meh.

Oh lord, the queen has come!

OMG, Lindsay watches Sarah's video?!!! I'm freaking out for Sarah. The circle is complete.

Lindsay Ellis what part of the “reactive-nit pic” writing motivation the directors had makers had that made you not like it? I don’t see how it contributes anything negative to the plot, i Find it to be an engaging character driven story with hardly any plot holes. The lack of plots holes can only be seen as an improvement. And it’s not really a zero sum game because they can still make really good films.

There was someone that said it well: "Complain that a series is tropey is like complaining the forest is made of trees."

Hm. I do get where you're coming from, and yeah, I don't disagree; conventions are conventions for a reason, there's always more in the execution than the concept in any case, etc. But at the same time, I also do get it as a criticism when there's nothing but the archetypes, y'know? Like, I don't expect an abstract anti-story or the wheel getting reinvented, but there's some times I watch a movie and there's just nothing to the characters besides their stock narrative role as they go through a paint-by-numbers Hero's Journey in a plot that's differentiated from every other Tolkien derivative setting by the specific word salad names for their generic faux-Middle Ages kingdoms.

wppb50 well, yeah, but tropes aren’t archetypes or cliches per say. There are other criticisms people can use that make more sense. It’s “tired” “badly paced” “dull” “doesn’t stand out” “cliched” “poorly written” “dragging” or “rushed” all tell a bit more about the actual issue with the media than. “Tropey. Too many tropes.”

@@Zanyotaku they seem to confuse a trope with a cliche. An abundance of tropes is normal. An abundance of cliches is usually a sign of a bad movie

@@samt3412 Exactly.

Oh hi big man, how do you (and Sarah too) put hbomb into this spectrum? Shark tales 4ever

I love the trend. I have a boring office job and having super long video essays on my second screen while I work makes the day go by faster (Sara and your vids being a welcome recent adition).

Big Joel Seeing you here is a surprise to be sure but a welcome one

Time is fucky. I still feel like the Tide Pod thing was years ago, and the fidget spinners even longer ago.

I read this in exactly your voice. (It's very interesting how distinct your... speech pacing?? is.)

It's been a while since I've watched any of their stuff, but I liked RedLetterMedia. They go out of their way to review bad movies in good faith.

Nando’s channel is 🔥🔥🔥

CinemaWins is wholesome but also so much more well researched than CinemaSins. Love that channel ☺️

Except for he doesn't, actual content produced by studios doesn't in any way change because some guy bragged about it on the internet for half an hour or whatever

@@alexanderneronov2348 who does this pertains to?

I agree! Yeah, you shouldn't affect someone elses critique change your opinion, but it's not easy when the whole purpose of the video is to tear that thing down. You kinda became ashamed to accept you liked it when you see the comments too. Passive agressive titles don't help either. For example, I watched a review about Frozen 2 titled "Frozen 2 is not good stop lying to yourself" I hate this type of video titles. All the comments were dedicated to tearing the movie down too. How am I supposed to say I liked the sequal better than the first movie in this place. It is like a cricle jerk, they are only there to agree with each others opinions. There is nothing wrong with that but it creates a sort of enviroment that nobody can oppose with them. Same with the Netflix show "The Circle" too. Everyone is talking about how fake the reality tv shows are and how dumb watching them is but like, that's the point? Nobody takes them at face value anyway. They are just making a bigger fool of themselves by thinking they are pointing out flaws when in reality people who like these things already knows these "flaws" and they are ok with it.

Oof sorry for the long ass comment, I had a lot in my mind lol.

Interestingly, when CinemaWins started out, his intention was mainly to focus on the movies largely considered "bad" on the internet, and give his positive thoughts on things he likes about them. However, his positivity and genuine criticisms and discussions were so popular he was consistently requested to look at all kinds of movies to analyze why they are so good. And interestingly, he still admits he's not a fan of certain movies, but its his job to figure out why someone would like this movie.

That's really sweet. I love that channel

@@ajerqureshi6411 i love this so much. sometimes we need some positivity on a fun platform at the end of the day

He is a lot more objective than CinemaSins, but sometimes he himself falls into the pit of winning something just to win it, not because it is actually something good. From what I gathered CS is best when the movie is garbage, while CW when it's really good

@@waffleonquaffle I would honestly say that Lee winning a thing just for its own sake is a lot less egregious than Jeremy sinning stuff just 'cause. Because really, "I found this detail funny/neat" is all the reason you need to give something a point if you are focusing on things to like about a movie, while random running gags about "Scene does not contain a lap dance." hardly seems like much of a reason to dislike it... unless the movie actually promised us a lap dance, anyway.

Omg, skip the tutorial? From 2019? On a sarah z video? Crazy

The whole objective/subjective dichotomy needs to be banished from art criticism. Neither term accurately describes what art is.

Exactly. A big part of art is to invoke feeling, to resonate with you personally. You can't talk about art without talking about how you literally feel about it. I'd much rather watch something that has clear bias if you've explained that it's personal to you, than listen to someone try to convince me their opinion is 'more objective' and therefore more valid than my own or others'.

Pearly P yeah but that’s the point of objectivity to judge the quality of the art rather than the feeling of the art Yes I do agree subjectivity has a lot more exploration and is less boring but that doesn’t make objectively judging something invalid Even if it’s boring I feel like it’s sort of like a building something must have a good base to be able to build all the beautiful things on toplike statues that make the building give one all these emotions and gives it so much depth But first it must have the a stable base otherwise the building will collapse Yes the beautiful things are still there and one can choose to ignore the broken structure but that doesn’t mean the building is still good as it has failed at its job It has fallen down yes the beauty still exists but it is now objectively a bad building even if one chooses to no perceive the faults does not render them invalid They’re still there whether you choose to see them or not That’s you choice and that is subjective but ones choice does not factor in to objectivity and when people observe the bundling objectively they see it has failed and they see it is flawed this is why we make it so buildings don’t collapse becuause Because otherwise they’d objectively fail even if subjectively one likes the beauty of the remnants of the building

Tom Ffrench I mean quality can be judged objectively on whether it’s good or not For example a computer that doesn’t run is an objectively bad computer it has fallen at what it is designed to do

@@keyan1219 But art (at least, any art that isn't design, cause that functions differently) isn't like building or anything - it doesn't exist in the real world. Are there things that indicate quality? Of course, like consistency or planning or time spent on it etc. but like, even those can be argued about, because fiction is fiction, and there will never be 100% true answers when it comes to it cause it's removed from reality.

Harmony Pon I genuinely like them... But that’s not an improvement. It’s just as full of fallacies, lies and getting things wrong. It’s actually satire, since it’s a parody of cinemasins, but in terms of quality of judgement ? Eh... No ?

Nathan Jora Lol what? I’ve only watched their reviews of animated films and they’ve gotten everything right?

Harmony Pon I’ve watched their reviews on Star Wars movies and they got a lot of things wrong -_- I’m not saying they never have legit points, they do make a lot of good points, but they also spin things to make them good when they actually aren’t.

Dartigan is a much better "X sins" channel.in my opinion.

That or just not taking it seriously

Terrible Writing Advice is extremely underrated.

Lol when I first stumbled across his channel I thought he was serious and then like 5 seconds into the video I went “Okay, this guy’s not serious. I can relax now.”

YES YES YESSSSS.

It also helps his channel is titled _"Terrible_ Writing Advice" making it clear that its one giant joke.

Actually, you’re wrong and stupid. He sucks because there’s not enough love triangles in his videos

ted stapleton I don’t know maybe its the time vortex breaking and somehow we are falling in between two episodes and only very few of us are noticing it. Mind blown

Because Sarah has overlap with edgy internet denizens as well as extremely PC leftists. Creating a fun mixup in the comments. It’s mostly “normie” tumblr/reddit users. But you got a 4chan group here that enjoys Sarah’s insight into various topic. She’s clearly talented and doesn’t say stupid shit.

Lots of people from all over like Sarah. It’s neat to see. I got dragged back here after like 7 months cause a comment war is still raging. It’s some quality internet right here in this video and comment section.

broderick kurtz It’s that I’ve looked up a portion of the videos from the RU-vidrs she mentioned and I’m not being sarcastic nor do I intend to seem antagonistic to you when I say that she lied through her teeth about lots of these RU-vidrs. One that stood out to me was Steven universe. That video was 2 hours long. I went through it thoroughly and after doing a compare and contrast, and it became clear that Sarah lied. I did more research and it became apparent that she made this video just to get our views and likes. It wasn’t really factual, but it was abridged and fake.

@@couragew6260 what did she lie about?

*LIKE A BOOMERANG*

Double A Animations this is the most criminally underrated comment I’ve ever read

@@doubleasworkshop1692 i fucking choked when i read this thank u

I utterly argee.

Nice to see that I'm not the only one. I probably watched it 10 times or more

True :)

Watch Bobvids’ Sustaining Stupidity- Why CinemaSins is Terrible.

Everything Wrong With CinemaSins

Whoa, did not expect to see Hardleg on this side of the youtubes. Glad to see ya, Joe.

Everything Wrong With Painfully Self-Aware Clickbaity Titles (In 12 Words Or Less)

Well, I mean, obviously, how dare you have things you enjoy? Stop it, stop it now. Everything is terrible and that is the only acceptable opinion.

@@SirRebrl dude is his opinion, Stop.

@@angelgama-mandoza6374 I feel like you may have some difficulty reading sarcasm on the internet. The person likes Steven Universe, RU-vid decided to suggest he should watch a video on why it's bad, and I commented a feigned attitude that was totally over-the-top about it being bad to enjoy things.

I did not knew it was a joke. I am 13 so dont listen to me. I'm a child or more like a teen.

This is how I discovered the glorious "not interested" button lol

Just on the off chance you haven't seen it yet, I want to recommend that you do. I don't always agree with what hbomberguy has to say and there's one small chunk of the video I feel he could have left out, but that doesn't stop the video from being incredibly entertaining. Aside from the humour of it, he genuinely makes some in depth, well researched points that managed to pin-point my exact issues (and overall opinion) of the show. It's a RU-vid classic and I'd recommend it to anyone.

Same actually, then I started watching more of hbomberguy's other videos and then I realized it was from him.

An Unmerciful Kiwi can I ask, what part of the video do you think he should have left out? I’ve watched that video so many times

@@neutrallynonsensical3477 I don't have a time stamp for it but from about the part were he starts talking about Jekyll until he finishes talking about doctor who felt a little unnecessary. Like, I felt he'd already made his point and he was wasting time going over it again in that section. I still thought it was enjoyable and it was cool to see the flaws of Sherlock be a reflection of Moffat's other works, I just feel like he went a little bit off track and you could take it or leave it. Although, maybe I just thought it was repetitive cause I too have watched that video about 4 times now.

It's an hbomb video of course it's gonna be good

Adriana Caggese have you checked out CinemaWins? It’s the same style of video, but they are pointing out all of the great things in movies

EdgeofaBlade i have and they're great, I agree! I loved the Spiderverse one

I thought it was funny. Like... I was kinda like "Megamind? HOW DAREth?!" But idk kinda enjoyed it.

@@adrianacaggese2606 Aren't they from like the same person?

It's just my opinion i thought too but they aren't, apparently

Whenever someone uses the 'it's satire' response, I ask, 'so what are you satirising?'. Usually don't get a response

They were fun videos when they were about 5 minutes long, but once they expanded out into 15-20 minute slogs, it became far less fun.

@@One.Zero.One101 I agree, I jut think that a lot of the satire has lost the spice that used to make it funny. Now it's just kinda annoying. That's just my opinion though, I'd like to hear yours! :)

@@One.Zero.One101 I think some people might find it confusing when some sins are more "real" (FPS is off, continuity errors, etc) when others are just sarcasm. It can be an odd mix that can make people confused which parts are or aren't "serious"

It taught me how not to analyze media lol

No it’s still fun you’re just super sensitive now

Cinemawins is not cinemasins. Entirely different people.

@@JasperJanssen He didn't say they were the same. What's the point of your comment?

David Braasch what’s the point of yours?

Jasper Janssen to question why you said that lol

@@snaiilsalt he said that cause the OP said "their" as in they are the same person I think.

I'm picturing him breaking into a zoo getting lost in the wrong section and ending up with a gorilla instead of a Snake

@@Georg3e So, somewhere in the Multiverse there's a version of Harry Potter where Voldemort drank gorilla milk to keep himself alive?

@@SpedeVesku 100% canon

@@SpedeVesku in some universes it's milk... Some...

@@Georg3e Oh God... O_O

Because she can't stand being criticised for any reason ever, *especially* when it's warranted.

Lily's response on Sarah Z's video shows that she can't handle criticism very well. Not surprise that her so-called "writing tips" proves that she hasn't improved.

But you have an AnImE pRoFiLe PiC, so your opinion is no longer vAlId *(t-poses harder in self righteous nature that's actually just me being a prick who doesn't respect others)*

The metaphor in Steven Universe is really, really shaky, but you have to take metaphor with a grain of salt. A lot of the times things aren't what they seem to be.

@@CrazyRiverOtter Fusion just seems to me like a general sort of metaphor for intimacy. It's like how a hug can be seen as sexual in some situations but for the most part it's really not.

@@keltzar1 yeah, it seems more like a trust bond. A bond so powerful, it literally turns you and your partner into a new entity, almost like you know each other so well, you can function as one being.

If fusion is not sex, why can’t peridot fuse because she is „asexual“?

Tohfan I don't believe Peridot is incapable of fusing. As she's shown in the show, she just doesn't want to/never needs to. (Unless the creators specifically stated that she can't fuse and I missed it). Asexuality has nothing to do with sex in itself. It's simply the lack of sexual attraction. Not a inherent lack of desire to participate in such activities. Plus as was seen in the show and movie, fushion isn't really an allegory for sex. It's just a representation of a strong relationship. Whether that be good and beneficial, such as Ruby and Sapphire's fusion, or potentially harmful and toxic, such as Jasper and Lapis' fusion.

How about this instead of reading the comments watch the video to prove this one is a huge lie

@@themechanic9974 i watched it, cant find the lie. Sarah's point about unconstrutive criticism was proven, though. The examples Sarah used specifically, even with context were kind of gross points. It felt like lily has a vendetta of some sort against Rebecca Sugar personally. The name calling and the roundabout way she called Rebecca Sugar a fascist was gross.

​@@themechanic9974 Oh no its Lily's number one fan Siriously dude there are other people out there way more deserving of your time and attention.

I have seen a DEPRESSING amount of people online saying they watched a lot of videos being critical of Steven Universe (including Lilly's vid) and felt like terrible people for liking the show. The idea that young people felt like bad people for enjoying a queer children's show is just awful. The idea that such a well meaning show could be twisted into something sinister by people acting in bad faith is terrible. I wonder how many kids who would have benefited from watching SU at a critical point in their lives were scared away from it due to videos made by straight up terrible people.

@@captaincrazycreative did you seriously go around looking for a 2 year old comment on a video that's been debunked? Wow dude you clearly have the best life

Council of Geeks ICONS SUPPORTING ICONS

But one of the thumbnail images, the steven universe one, is a critique of the people and there awful business choices, and bas weiting, it isnt pretending to be in good faith or bad faith, the video is out an out a condemnation and nothing else and doesnt pretend otherwise, and i will say, steven universe may be a kids show, but its a kids show like star wars prequels were kids movies, they have ham fisted social commentary, hypocrisy, and shit writing, and they use its a kids show as a defense for dogshit opinions being pushed as fact and telling everyone this is how you should live, to impressionable children no less, if anything needs a 2 hour shit taken on it its steven universe, the creators can not take any criticism, even constructive, they farm out everything to animation mills in asia, and they are beyond lazy and create episodes plots on the spot and have no plan for the overarching story they shoehorned in, steven universe sucks ass, people who think SU is good would have a stroke if they watched og teen titans.

@@CoreStarter most of the steven universe fanbase was around during the mid 2000s to see teen titans. And it wasnt an impeccable puce of work devoid of criticism. While people loved the main characters, people still debated over the story arcs, art style, humor, and commentary. You don't need to gloss over the many flaws of (still good) shows just because youre hanging on lily orchards every word that rebecca sugar is some boogeyman

You watch Sarah, ahhh!

@@Indigospade im not partiularly a fan of lily, im jist saying sarah was dead as fuck wrong about essentially everything she said this video, she did next to 0 research about how steven universe is made and just blindly assumed things about its production then called lily wrong based on this wild (and incorrect) assumptions, i also dont remember the teen titans episode where one character forcibly rapes, i mean fuses with another character.

I feel people only watch cinemasins either when they make a video about a movie they don't like or when they're masochists and want to see how a movie they like gets butchered

I sometimes watch cinema sins just to see a summary of a movie I'm never going to watch. I ignore the sins and it's usually a good brief summary of the movie

CinemaSins is a nice thing to watch and they can be pretty funny sometimes but what's really annoying is when people act as if everything they say is legitimate valid criticism.

DoctorPhileasFragg I just think cinema sins is funny and not meant to be taking too seriously.

@@petermills5623 in this vein, I've had a number of movies I've ended up wanting to see after watching a Cinema Sins video about it.

but that's not clickbait-y enough

Ikr. But the funny and great part about that is, you can make a title saying. “Your ‘arguments’ are bad and here’s why”

but the woman who made su is garbage and here’s why does respect sugar. i believe that’s one of the things she explicitly says in her video. i find this blatant tone policing of creators baffling. shock value has always had a place in art and especially in critiques, why is it such an issue now?

@@jaaliyahrios4856 in the video Steven universe is garbage she calls sugar many very rude and blatantly wrong things. And asking people to be nice isnt "tone policing" it's common sense. I'm not gonna click on a video that seems like it dosent have any intelligent points about something I like. While she did present some intelligent points, the title didn't convey that. The title makes it sound like it's just someone yelling about how they dont like something

@@jaaliyahrios4856 Respect?

Cellspex too.

Renegade Cut is an asshole though

ppppff why are you comparing quinton reviews to good channels

RLM needs more subs

Amanda the Jedi is good too

The code would give you 30 Satires actually.

Thanks

This is my main point too, I think we should point out bad criticism and the people who make it but also point out to the people who consume it without critical thought the problem with that as well. That way we cover the problem from more angles.

I...never expected one of my favorite artists to be in the comment section of videos I watch, but I wholeheartedly agree!

MauLer is a great channel that goes into incredible length and depths into any given subject matter.

o u the drawer chick

Lilypeet in a nutshell 😂

Schraff in a nutshell 🤣

When it goes to great lengths to portray space nazis sympathetically then maybe people should be offended.👌

@@LOD69 Sorry what? What franchise are you even talking about? Is the piece of media humanizing the ideology of Nazism or the people who get roped up in it? Because those are two very different things. If it's the former then I get the anger, but if it's the latter, that's just realistic.

how did nerdrotic find this video?

Right now he primarily does "What the f*** is up with this (weird cartoon)?!" kind of videos. Though entertaining, it does smack of someone leaning into a niche for the sake of views. If those are the videos he genuinely wants to make, fair enough, they are good videos that I enjoy. But I'd hate for him to feel pressured into something he doesn't want by my traffic.

@@samwallaceart288 To be fair though, I don't think we should confuse the so called "riffing" with "criticism". The whole "let's watch something and poke fun at it" is something MST3K started and its influence has been pretty strong on the earlier internet "critics", who in turn influenced people like Saberspark. Or at least his "What the f*** is up with" series. For example, while people like AVGN and Nostalgia Critic call their videos "reviews", they are much more like riffs and they shouldn't really be taken that seriously. It's supposed to be just harmless fun. Though at some point Nostalgia Critic really did start to see his videos as genuine commentary and he started shitting out those terrible editorials that are just flat out bad. I think he himself didn't get the difference between riffing a film and actual video essays. I kinda wish the art of "comedic commentary just for the giggles" was mentioned in this video as a lot of people who make film related content on RU-vid don't even claim to be actual critics.

Not sure what this has to do with my comment, but sure, agreed.

@@samwallaceart288 Lol. Maybe my reply was a tad bit too general. I suppose my original point was that Saberspark does these more riff-like videos simply because they're faster and easier to make than a more thought-out analysis or history videos that he usually does and he wants his audience to have something on his channel to watch, but this doesn't mean he replaced the latter with the former. Then my mind went on a tangent and my reply made no sense anymore.

But now I feel that Saberspark is pretty much acting like everyone else with his latest content in terms of "bad faith criticism", nitpicking, and the whole bandwagon effect. I did liked some of his older videos that covered historical events and overviews of the entertainment industry (mainly animation), but now it feels like he's just running out of genuine ideas to talk about and just went straight for the easier/shadier tactics to gain him more attention. Plus he also comes across as a bit opinionated at times too. I even noticed how some of his videos got made prematurely for that reason as well and felt like borderline clickbait materials to support the hot topic/bandwagon effect... He made some redundant videos rambling about the same topics such as the current state of Cartoon Network and Teen Titans Go. Also, the current MLP isn't exactly the pinnacle of modern animation as he, and other bronies, made it out to be a lot (but I chose to let that one side with him anyhow). The "what the hell is ___?" video series are just him wasting time riffing on obscure, foreign, weird, and low budget videos. Basically doing what we already seen and heard other reviewers done long before him that adds nothing new.

Agreed. Critics have to give valid reasons for why something does or doesn't work along with giving proper context (I'm referring to the "Harder Daddy" joke taken out of context and hated on). To my knowledge, pkrussl only pointed out things he didn't like or thought would rile up people and bullshitted his way through an "explanation" of why it didn't work.

I haven’t even watched video in question, but pkrussl definitely did the same things in other videos. It makes him frustrating to watch, especially when he targets specific groups and says they’re bad, but has no elaboration as to why (like animation meme makers on RU-vid. He says they’re bad...but that’s cause he normally searched for the worst of the worst, made by novices, and then used them as examples of the average content within the entire community. We also ask why it’s bad to have this content online, and he doesn’t give a good answer, other than it’s bad.) Aka I don’t like pkrussl since he seems to love viciously ripping things apart but doesn’t put thought into why he’s doing it or why his audience should care or should also dislike the content.

Hazbin Hotel isnt very good doe, and it has quite poorly writing, comedic writing and timing, and pacing in general. But the animation was good doe

@@stenhansenmaling1281 don't know about Hazbin Hotel but I've been a fan of Vivzie ever since her Zoophobia days. When I watched the Zoophobia short I was kind of... insulted? The original comic was fairly mature and had good writing but the short was so much of a kid's cartoon it was insulting to the original story. And as much as I love broadway songs the song Jack sings is just really bad and poorly written

@@drawnwithlove3499 I don’t know anything about Vivziepop, but I have watched all of the pilots for the different shows, and it feels like if you took kid show’s writing and simply put mature themes on it- because honestly, they seem to cater more to a young-teen audience. i feel bad for you though, watching a good series get toned down like that is painful

Thank you! It definitely needs to be viewed with the context that it's a kids show about friendship. One that handles a lot of sensitive subjects, sure, but there are still lines that it realistically couldn't cross - mostly with White Diamond.

@Brook Heyes But you see, SU goes out of it's way to make it difficult for it to even adhere to it's own themes. Forgiveness is the message of the show, but instead of focusing on the characters and fleshing them out in order to prepare them for that development, SU spends more time pushing it's villians' sin tally and emphasising just how bad of a person they are. If the message for a children's show is forgiveness, there needs to be an accurate depiction on what can and cannot be forgiven, because some things can't be forgiven and children need to be shown that option is also valid. Some things, like genocide, murder and abuse simply cannot be forgiven and SU doesn't really do a good job at drawing that line, leading to some of the characters being depicted as having unhealthy relationships with themselves and others that don't get addressed/resolved, which clearly isn't a good message for a kid's show to put out.

Bri elle Avatar did a good job of that; Azuls and Ozai were unredeemable because they committed genocide unrepentantly. Zuko, the major season 1 antagonist, gets a very well developed character arc to join the main cast despite his previous wrongdoings.

@@worthythaneofross3925 Exactly. ATLA and it's success is majorly what kickstarted the introduction of mature themes in kids' cartoons but writers need to realise this isn't just a cool/unique storytelling tool-- it's gonna literally shape the lives of the kids watching it to some degree, so unless you can confidently somewhat match the standard that Avatar set (at least the basics of it), it's not worth airing.

Except the part where all the Gems are effectively learning empathy as children, because they’re learning it from biological life and it’s not their “natural” state - which is the big thing the attempts to conflate the Diamonds with human abusers, or fascism, etc, fails to address as central to the narrative.

I honestly don't get this movie reviewer hate that's going on lately... there are lots of different styles to it, people made funny characters. Everyone can pretty much pick their favorite flavor of criticism. I like watching in depth analysis videos about the shows and movies I like, I also enjoy watching Doug Walker trashing awful movies or even making fun of my favorite movies. But that's wrong because... it's just wrong? Why can't people just create and watch content THEY like?

@@atinity6749 Sarah explains this pretty clearly in the video. You can watch and like these videos, just know what they are. They could be nitpicking a perfectly fine movie because that's their job, but it's not good-faith criticism. They could also be personal opinions and not objective facts, even though they are framed as the latter. To quote Lindsay Ellis, "It's not 'THING BAD.' It's more like, 'THING EXISTS.'" Watch these videos with open eyes, so to speak.

Alice Wang I agree wholeheartedly. I'm genuinely surprised that most people found the over the top style was a joke and that people were intelligent enough to figure out what was an actual critique inside all the jokes and exaggeration. But of course, once again I give folks waaay too much credit.

Peter Coffin IT'S THE FAKE GIRLFRIEND GUY LMAOOOOOOOOOOO

@@mhawang8204 yes and there is subtext to that; IT SHOULDN'T EXIST. Or I dunno. I figure there must be some reason people need to negatively point out that thing exist. And people are too dumb to figure out the thing is not as good as other things. Cuz they're dumb sheeples...

@Cuca Beludo care to elaborate friend

If you haven't found them, Cinefix scratches a similar itch.

Update, I checked all of them. Didn't really like Now You See It. And let me recommend Cosmonaut Variety Hour

"Just Write" is another great channel. :)

I stopped following Jenny when I realized she was still whinging exclusively about "Rise of Skywalker" two months after the fact.

@@rabbitsurvivor1896 So? If you're passionate about someone you're gonna talk about it

@@rabbitsurvivor1896 It's bothering me too because I really don't like that franchise, but I prefer her videos when she's passionate about the topic, so I'm just waiting it out until she finds a new thing to focus on.

Didn't expect to see you here. Love your KOTH videos!

I am at a point where I consider “Why ____ Is Terrible” videos to be on the same level of clickbait as "TOP 10 ____ you won't belive number 3" videos. I mostly don't watch them anymore

Max Marriner I feel the same way. I want make similar videos but I always stop myself when I'm not having fun. If I'm not enjoying myself I try and see what it is I do enjoy about media analysis. Its hard to pin down what it is I enjoy within the analytical side of entertainment criticism.

Making "why ______ is terrible" is perfectly ok. Same as to making a "Why I love _______" video. The problem comes when people start using the video to validate their beliefs rather than coming up with their own.

I have a feeling you'll love Folding Ideas video "Annihilation and Decoding Metaphor ". I haven't watched the video yet so I don't know if Sarah mentioned it.

I don't really care if people make a billion "Why X is terrible" and make is as hyperbolic as humanly possible. My issue is how often the X is inaccurate or "bad faith". The reason why "Why X is terrible" videos end up creating that problem is because there is only so many irredeemably bad things you can go through, so they end up needing to invent reasons or harping on small reasons.

See, now this is evidence to refute the idea that they stole the idea from the community. Of course, Lily never said that. Let me grab the quote: "The big twist of the show is that Rose is Pink Diamond but that twist was guessed by the fandom the moment Pink Diamond's name was first mentioned. And I said at the time that the "Rose is Pink Diamond" theory was without a doubt the worst possible way to end that entire arc, which meant that Sugar was definitely going to do it." In the later parts of the video I can maybe see where you would get the idea that Lily was saying that Sugar stole it from the community? Maybe if you cited a quote or something I'd understand better. 15:19 is the timestamp for that, btw. Not sure if you want that.

@@jowkeen9169 If it wasn't Lily specifically, definitely there were a ton of SU crits on tumblr who rallied behind the "stealing from fans" flag. The whole situation makes me feel like Sokka in that one Avatar episode about Madame Wu's predictions.

in the sense that the populace is having blind faith in video essay's in general? I agree with that actually. I bet this was the norm for historical essayists too haha

Why is the fact that the twist wasn't mind blowing or unexpected a bad thing tho? At this point into the series, the fandom had an extremely long amount of time to think about the possible ways the shattering of Pink Diamond Could have played out, the Rose is Pink Diamond theory, while prevalent, was quickly overthrown by other ones fuelled by Red Herrings or clues that could be missinterpreted, so the reveal ended up being interesting and somewhat unexpected because it brought back a somewhat forgotten theory into light, effectively surprising the audience. Besides the fact that it didn't end up being overly predictable, the twist itself fits naturally into the narrative and makes us revalue and fully understand many of the characters, making the story richer in retrospect, what more could you guys possible want? Most other possible outcomes wouldn't have changed anything, making the reveal meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

@@nanusantos1696 personally o think the twist qpuld havd been awesome! If they didnt have a chunk of episodes that could have been squeezed down into something smaller、 therefore letting the idea be fresher and a little less "yes we know、 we knew from the start and the odea os boring and we camt theorize anymore because we already figured everything out" i think the crewniverse has a hard tome prioritizing.

I remember from one where they referred to Ruby as a boy through out. Not because they just plain didn’t know she’s a girl but because “Ruby is a boy because he looks like one. Also girls can’t date girls it’s femanazi propaganda.”

Yea!! I mean, even more than a month after SU has completely ended, I'm still getting new negative rants about it in my reccomended, despite how I continuously click on the not interested button (which, often serves to just remove all SU content from my reccs instead of these sort of specific videos)

i’d love to see a su review made by somebody indifferent to su with a positive attitude towards what the shows trying to represent (so it’s free of any offensive comments like anti lgbt+ and so on) just breaking down the show and it’s pros and cons and how well or bad it did things? i think it’d be really interesting to see the pov of somebody who isn’t super anti the show or obsessed with it.

i’d love to see a su review made by somebody indifferent to su with a positive attitude towards what the shows trying to represent (so it’s free of any offensive comments like anti lgbt+ and so on) just breaking down the show and it’s pros and cons and how well or bad it did things? i think it’d be really interesting to see the pov of somebody who isn’t super anti the show or obsessed with it.

Internet funny guys that cry about “politics” in media hate on it soley for clout, “bad fanbase”, “agenda” and ifunny brownie points

I really enjoy Lindsay’s videos when needing a slight laugh or just some fun with her critiques. She’s even working to incorporate more positive movie posts like her recent “Titanic” video

It's like the bad crictizism Is done when people try to acomodate those feeling instead of learn/recognice where those feelings come from and disociate them when analizing a product. Cause at the end they end up doing the same thing some scientist did when tried to prove things like superior races or that neandertals organize in gendered groups.

@@kiriki4558 Exactly, it's intellectually dishonest to approach a topic of study with your mind already made up.

And the worst thing is trying to push your opinions as absolute truth and everybody who disagrees with you are wrong.

@@SirBlackReeds how so?

100% There needs to be way more of that kind of criticism in reviews/film criticism. I think Dominic Noble does it in a great way when he tries to understand the appeal of Fifty Shades of Grey and compares it to how he experienced Spider-Man while growing up.

@Alex & Rah it doesn't seem like you got the idea lindsey was trying to say in the video...

I LOVE JENNY 😍

@Alex & Rah uh, the reason discussions about cultural appropriation are so serious in the first place is because of its relationship with colonialism. like lindsay said, it's a neutral term in of itself, but it gets contentious because of historical/cultural context.

I love Jenny. No matter how bad the thing is that she's talking about, she always sounds a mixture of thrilled/amazed that it even exists and sees the humor in all of it. I could watch her talk about bad teen movies and One Direction fan-fiction forever.

I think that a part of the problem is sometimes you don't know why you dislike something, you just know you do, or maybe you dislike it for shallow reasons. Like, I'm going to be honest here, the reason I dislike Steven Universe is that I simply cannot stand Steven's voice. It is just so grating to me and hard to get over. But I can't exactly do an essay on that, because it is about personal taste, and not objectivity. So perhaps all you can resort to is "thing bad!" But then maybe you just....shouldn't do an essay on it?

I getcha. How old are we, that this is worthy of the history books already?

To be fair, IIRC the criticism wasn’t that Frodo and Sam were “too gay” it was more that the movies went out of their way to frame them as a romantic couple, even though the original point of their relationship was to show the strength of their friendship. (It being based on the deep comrade Tolkien experienced in trench warfare during the “Great War.”). And yeah they kind of did do that. Possibly unintentional, since the relationship is supposed to be very intense. Although the lighting cues and music did seem to romanticise their gestures. Though again, probably unintentional as the soft lighting and music cues were consistent for a lot of the character bonding moments, regardless of relationship. But let’s just say there was a definite increase of slashfiction regarding the pair after the Peter Jackson trilogy was released. And I can kind of see why. Not that there’s anything wrong with Frodo and Sam being a couple obviously. Hell, for the longest time as a kid, I actually did think they were a couple. And was slightly confused and a little disappointed when Sam seemingly married a woman at the end.

@@someonerandom8552 I feel like the movie didn't really do that any more than the books did. Yes, the music makes it more romantic, but they also cut out the scene where Sam looks at Frodo's sleeping, peaceful face and literally says "I love him". And all the scenes towards the end where they sleep arm in arm and hold hands during the day (for "safety reasons", but still)... I read the books first, and I shipped them in both versions. And in both versions it's obviously the case that any subtext is unintentional, so I really don't agree with Nostalgia Critic here. And I mean, increase in slashfic is a good thing! :D Though, to be fair, the movies sparked an increase in all kinds of LOTR fanfic, just by making it more popular in general.

Baguette Gott Fair point. It might have been just the context of the visual language for me. I was just a kid when I first saw the trilogy. So seeing the soft lighting and hearing the sort of melancholy music, I instantly connected it with the romance genre. (Probably couldn’t articulate why at the time though lol) Yeah that is true. I guess I don’t really take the NC at his word. It’s all hyperbole. I mean I remember him making a big deal about HeMan being gay (for comedic affect.) Though I guess in hindsight that’s not a great look, as it is rather immature. But hey, I was just as immature when I used to watch him. I do quite like his takes on the Disney movies. Because there’s a real sense that he legitimately enjoys Disney products, so his mini reviews tend to be be more positive and he seems to try to see the good. His NC reviews of Disney properties notwithstanding. So I guess I ultimately agree with the thesis that reviews that are positive or trying to be are much better than just being nit picky for the sake of finding flaws. Uhh, maybe it’s because I live in Australia but the lack of geek merch for Lord of the Rings deeply saddens me lol But you’re right. The PJ trilogy certainly reignited the passion for Lord of the Rings and introduced a whole new generation of fledgling nerds to the Tolkien.

Baguette Gott I SWEAR I SEE YOU UNDER EVERY SINGLE LEFTIST VIDEOS HOLY SHIT especially recently too, i kept seeing you ahksjhkfshvb

Man, I wish it was obligatory for these critics to have put out at least one book, or show, or movie before they critique something. Because then they would actually gain some perspective into the creative process and realise how fucking hard it is to go over every single aspect of a story and consider how 'dumb' it is. And the sheer amount of time, drafts, do-overs it takes to get to the final product, and depending on time restraints most creators are just going to be grateful they're done and don't want to enter the editing process for the fifth or sixth time. I feel like if they did write a book or made a movie first, instead of just going off of some media critique classes they took in college or something, they would stop being so nitpicky. I know I stopped being so nitpicky about the media I consume once I started actually writing my novel.

This general discussion seems to be taken with relative ease. Examples I've seen of RU-vidrs taking particular criticism of them has revealed many "critics" on this site to be incredibly thin-skinned.

www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/magazine/what-do-we-mean-when-we-call-art-necessary.html Art and entertainment, and thus art- & entertainment- criticism, are by definition non-essential. I gotta say I smirk every time I see progressives use this kind of religious language to describe art that flatters their political sensibilities. The very same people who have no trouble identifying a chick tract as hacky christian propaganda are blown away by the 'woke' equivalent: "Powerful" "A must-see" Pathetic.

AliRadicali I don’t know what you’re talking about

Yes! The channel is a gem :) his take on Ratatouille was pretty good and his reviews are very well thought out and presented. Definitely give him a watch guys, it’s so worth it

@@arvindpennathur He also collaborated with Sarah Z

@@mariavillarin5478 Which vid?

@@Moonstar79 It was the weird musical videos

I Suggest you Cellspex as well she is great

One show has multi-millions of dollars behind it and the other was made on a budget as large as an episode of Family Matters.

When you are a flagship TV show as popular as steven universe was, then yes. The animation needs to actually be to the standards of the budget. It wasnt.

@@ottekitfun9626 The animation was absolutely at the standards of the budget. The consistency of the art was not. Those are separate things. Please do not confuse them.

@@arosenthal3318 consistency definitely adds to the art quality in a fucking animation. The artists for the series did exactly what they were told to do, the storyboard artists were just extremely fucking lazy to draw consistent models in their storyboards. The animation studios that drew, Sunmin image pictures and Korea rough draft, are notorious for drawing and animating exactly what they are given. The storyboard for the animation was drawn on fucking stickynotes and stuck together while creating the story, rather than making the story, and then making the storyboard afterwards. Which is the entire reason as to the haphazard storyboard.

@@ottekitfun9626 Animation is just movement. The consistency of the art has nothing to do with that. If the storyboarders had stayed on model for every single board it would have taken a lot more time and money to maintain the same amount of frames. There is actually an episode where the characters are way closer to the model sheets (here comes a thought), and the frame rate takes a major hit because of that. Storyboards being drawn on stickynotes is pretty common. Not sure why you specifically pointed that out. The fact that they wrote the story around the boards is silly but it’s a separate issue. Also while I do agree that the art could have had some better quality control, that’s the fault of the art director, not the storyboarders. You really shouldn’t be speaking about the animation industry in such an objective manner if you aren’t properly educated about it. It’s fine to just share your opinions, but you can’t act like what you’re saying is objectively true.

@Trevak D'hal I think that movies can have objectively good or bad elements of filmmaking, but in the long run what really matters is if the film means anything to the person watching it

I think it's cause those cartoons tackle on complex topics that it expects fans to think that this show is complex

And then they compare it to Avatar, The Last Airbender

​@@sporeham1674which is funny, because my go to example for this has often been people back in the day ranting about how ATLA totally copped out with energy bending and not having Aang kill Ozai. Like, people were legit angry that the kids show didn't have the hero kill the villain

​@@MagmaRiver"Back in the days..." Oh no, they are STILL ranting about it.

For me it was jay exci and cinema wins

@@lolface_9363 I stopped watching it after watching bobvids video "Sustaining Stupidity--Why CinemaSins is Terrible."

@@lolface_9363 th3birdman did it for me with his two parter on CinemaSins

@@masoodhk258 Shaun for me

@@unicornlover1237 But that's the thing! It was made BY adults. That doesn't mean it was made FOR adults. When I was a kid i liked watching the thomas the tank engine movie! I watched this grown man look at some dude eat a carrot and start saying words loudly to emphasize their phonetics and watched the nostalgia critic's only response was "wtf is wrong with the people who made this movie" because he isn't criticizing it on the quality of the movie for kids to enjoy, its on the quality of the movie for HIM to enjoy. I didn't mention any other cartoons in my comment but sure lets look at steven universe: Why are there so many people who are angry that the core message of steven universe is that "anyone is capable of change"? if the cartoon wants to get the point across to KIDS (You know, people with underdeveloped brains and thus people who don't have very strong critical thinking skills yet) then its going to have to stand by that moral lesson EVEN IF THE INDIVIDUAL VIEWER BELIEVES THAT THE CHARACTERS GETTING REDEMPTION "DESERVE" TO DIE. Also its a kids show? where the main protagonist is meant to be the surrogate audience member. Kids are supposed to see themselves in steven and that's how they absorb the message of the show. Whenever I see full grown adults getting angry at kid's shows for doing stuff that doesn't resonate with them, I wonder why they, as rational and capable adults, do not then go out to find a different thing that satisfies their needs. Instead you have a ton of adults ganging up on anyone who enjoys that thing and bullying them into hating that thing too. My point with this post isn't to say "teenagers shouldn't watch cartoons" its "people over the age of 21 should be able to recognize when something was made to be consumed by a younger audience and look at it through that lense" because too many times I see fandoms demanding that the ten year old main character kill the big bad villain because "They're irredeemable" or something. Being a kids show isn't an excuse to do shitty things and have bad themes that kids will watch, sure! But most of the time I'm looking at people criticizing that stuff made to be watched and understood by an 8 year old does not have the same level of complex thought as something like Dante's inferno or whatever. Stop taking away the fun stupid tv just because it isn't fun for you personally and go out and find a different book/movie/tv show because its clear you have grown out of the stories from your childhood *and there's nothing wrong with admitting that*

I hate the “it’s just for kids” excuse for bad movies but if the movie is for LITERAL BABIES then it gets a pass

@@unicornlover1237 I think its a little weird to get upset when a kids show doesn't teach kids lessons. Its not supposed to be school. Tv shows covering topics that are more on the serious side of storytelling isn't supposed to "teach" you anything. What its supposed to be is a primer for opening up these kinds of discussions. A kid might watch an episode of a cartoon that talks about the death of a pet, and then see how the characters respond to it, and it might cause them to think about how they might respond to their own pet dying, which might lead to them finding an adult to talk about it with. Their isn't really a lesson or moral to be learned from that, its just there to help a kid acknowledge an experience that they might not have had yet. Also with all due respect I really do think you're kinda overestimating kid's abilities to understand some of those dark topics. No offense to kids, it's not meant as an insult! People's brains haven't fully developed until they've hit 25...a 13 year old might not have the mental capacity to...you know...comprehend the struggles of war and the horrifying reality of genocide (at least, not without feeling really overwhelmed). I think a basic "this is something that exists" is really the only thing they can get into without getting overwhelmingly depressing. idk about you but when I was a kid I struggled with depression and if all I had to watch on tv was shows where everyone is depressed and struggling all the time...I definitely wouldn't have watched it because that's the last thing I needed.

@@Purplebowlingball But seriously...why do you hate it so much? What's wrong with kids having bad movies??? Can you honestly tell me that there were movies you liked as a kid, and had fond memories about, that when you looked back on them you realized they probably weren't all that good? If you're old enough to be mad that a silly little animated movie is kind of annoying, you're old enough to acknowledge that the movie isn't made for you, and thus can go and find another movie. People who complain that a movie for kids is bad are not the heroes and protectors of kids that they think they are? Usually this line of thinking just keeps kids from enjoying things in general. The people who make these movies probably aren't listening to the people who have only negative things to say about movies, because these people are usually only ever going to have negative things to say about movies. They MIGHT listen to the people who enjoy a movie and has good things to say about it who has actual constructive criticism...but by just saying "There's no excuse for bad movies" the people who make those movies has already written you off because there doesn't NEED to be an excuse. They can't exactly go back and CHANGE a movie to fit your standards once the movie has been made.

@@mallk238 I didn't say there was "no excuse for bad movies" and I don't know where you got that from

God, I noticed that and I'm so sorry

Robobuddies Yeah, I noticed that too. Rather unfortunate to see such plagiarism

How are you not verified?

@@aaronlandry3934 wait like did she lift them point by point or did she just vaguely mention them? cause I feel like some of the stuff like the animation errors are kinda obvious in a general sense, no?

Yeah, when I saw the video, I was thinking that too.

Turn based combat is very broad gamey, so I can understand why people don't like it, but like, porting board games to computer software is not the worst thing to do, particularly given you can do things where you expect a player to win more, and hand off DM duties to a machine at the cost of flexibility

Heck even dunkey himself admits he just doesn't like slow stuff. Idk why people get mad over jrpgs

Wow, I've heard people call it that in real life and didn't realize where they got it from. Was always taken aback by it.

No the his fan base that does that are the one that already have that opinion before dunkey made a video on it. Just because they shit on Japanese game because dunkey made a video on it doesn't mean they were brainwashed by him. They probably already those kinds of games since the beginning

@@menantumakawak idk about that. I think that it's absolutely true that people who consume media criticism have their opinions shaped by it, unwittingly or not. Even if I didn't like the Star Wars prequels I'm going to dislike them more because of RLM's Plinkett reviews showed relevant information that I didn't understand when I saw it as a kid. Even knowing about the production process for media informs one's opinion of it. There are for sure impressionable people who listen to their favorite RU-vidr shitting on JRPGs and all the sudden think that Chrono Trigger is terrible without playing it. That's kind of the point of Sarah's video.

THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL

I know right? We've all encountered that exact type of thing.

Same here but then people pointed out that there are sometimes real criticisms mixed in with the nitpicks and for some reason that's bad. I mean if you can't tell the difference between a joke nitpick and a genuine criticism then that's on you

@@TheSleepyRanger Honestly, given the diversity of mindsets roving about on the internet, and the unknowability of some creators' internal thought processes, I think it's somewhat naive to assume that most people are on the same wavelength as you, or that people who aren't are being foolish.

Ik that. But sometimes there satire vids are just blatant slander

TheSleepyRanger the problem is that there’s genuine criticisms mixed in with both jokes, and just wrong statements. If it were all jokes and wrong statements, the satire defence would make more sense, but the presence of real criticism muddies the water, suggesting that the wrong statements, which are worded exactly like the genuine criticism are mean to be interpreted as criticism, and are either mistakes, or just outright lies.

@@TheSleepyRanger Because if you don't make obvious distinctions between silly nitpicks and legit critiques, the whole satire falls apart.

I find it to be quite useful.

Yupp some of the best videos

Love that channel!

lmfao no, macintosh has never been useful in his whole life.

@@velessia4840 oh man really??! i used to believe i'd learnt soooo much from his channel, but now i know that was some kind of mind trick, thanx for enlightening me mate

@ahsido1 you see to know that i'd have to be a watcher of lily's videos and the problem with that is that i dont hate myself

I think we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking a banished like bar automatically means a poor quality video. If I recall correctly, Dan Olson's channel also has that bar turned off for all videos. And Dan's channel is extremely thoughtful, well-researched, and empathetic to creators and audiences alike.

Reasons to turn off the bar include: Mass dislike campaigns by online trolls. To avoid using the numbers as a personal measuring stick (put a ? on this, because I don't know if creators can still see the number of likes and dislikes after removing it from videos).

And to clarify, I expect that Lily's response IS poor-quality. I'm trying to make a point about how we preemptively judge quality in general, not trying to defend the quality of this one particular thing.

@@StNick119 What do you mean by measuring stick?

Not only you, but Cinema Sins theirselves know they're not real critics. Whether you find them funny or not is irrelevant. Granted, sometimes they'll point out legitimate flaws, but it's not they're job to analyze a movie to determine whether it's good or bad. They'll many times just point out the random little mistakes that they already know don't matter, like a cereal box moving between shots.

For real. CinemaSins is obviously a massive piss take that shouldn’t be taken seriously at all.

I've seen people up in arms defending smaller youtubers for doing the exact same thing but with the excuse that they're entertaining comedy channels that overly exaggerates for content..... which sounds exactly like cinemasins. If the nitpicking is annoying, I won't find fault in that but my goodness, to say present day cinemasins isn't satire even within themselves is a dense remark And who the hell is taking reviews by genuine movie critics as true anyways?? Please don't let anyone tell you that a movie you enjoy is bad for xyz reasons. Even I love parody movies despite an average of 0% favorable critic reviews.

The biggest criticism I've seen (which I agree with) of CinemaSins is that they claim that they're satire, which would be fine, but so many of their videos are filled with nitpicks that are actual criticisms, real, genuine criticisms, jokes, and factual inaccuracies, some intended, some not. The satire defense would work far better if their videos were made up of nothing but jokes and intended factual inaccuracies, because at that point they're being so outrageous that it's hard to take seriously, but the fact that they have genuine criticisms mixed into their videos and that almost all of their sins are structured in the same exact way, it becomes increasingly unclear which sins are just jokes, which ones are actual criticisms with a joke made to spice it up, and which ones are just nitpicks. Further adding to the problem is that they've made a distinction that they actually do have intended factual inaccuracies on top of the accidental ones, which calls basically everything they say in their videos into question.

I thought comedy was supposed to be funny.

When creators try their hardest to avoid fan theories we end up with stuff like the Last Jedi, which the fans complain about too. Fan theories are such a lose-lose situation; you either go along with them and get accused of “ripping the fans off” or you avoid them and get accused of “not giving fans what they wanted/what they thought made sense”.

Fan theories are supposed to be a fun "guessing game" and I have no idea how it escalated into "THE SHOW STOLE MY IDEA" lmao

I don't like a thing. Let me explain why I don't like a thing. Here are the reasons why I do not like this thing.

well that's always with every critic. they are always biased. so if someone says it's terrible, always take it as I think it's terrible. hell, it's not only with critics. you can even disagree with pretty set facts. as long as you have better arguments that is.

All criticism is opinion though.

@@Science112095 not ALL criticism are opinions but alright

@@janetreid4515 You really believe that? I mean even Siskel and Ebert was opinion.

@@SirBlackReeds REBECCA SUGAR DID WHAT

@@SirBlackReeds excuse me?

@@SirBlackReeds those pictures that she drew as a teenager had nothing to do with the show and was drawn years before the show was created or started. and she wasn't the only one, that is so common amongst shipping i've read plenty of smut of my favorite otps 🤦🏿‍♀️🤷🏿‍♀️🤷🏿‍♀️

@@SirBlackReeds *she

@@SirBlackReeds The images that aren't related to the show Steven Universe at all? Please. Find another strawman, your shit is wack.

At the start they probably didn't but now it's really hard to tell, they still have joke sins but most of it seems really serious, at least most of their new ones.

They're Schrodinger's critics: they're serious until someone criticizes them, and then it's just satire/entertainment

I thought they were a satire/comedy channel... Are they not?

they dont, its for entertainment purposes

@SerNoddicusTheGallant nope they’ve let it go to their head. They think they’re actual critics. Command/control-F “fair use” in this Reddit AMA. “We’re parody, review, and criticism all rolled into one.” www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5eki3q/we_are_jeremy_barrett_of_cinemasins/

i really want to know why too. i mean, meyers' content could definetely be described as unresearched/low quality media criticism but he doesn't really nitpick or personally attacks on his videos. not to mention i think his channel is clearly meant for entertainment and he doesn't hide that he's a fan on the teen movies and "chick flicks" he "criticises". so to me it gets into the definition of satire, unlike cinemasins but you know, he started his channel with video essays that looked quite conventional. i've never watched them, but maybe she was talking about them? who knows

@@d.o.m.i. he doesn't nitpick? He literally says a show a shit based ONLY upon the pilot. Like how the fuck is that not bad media criticism? Plus, his main focus is teen dramas which will ALWAYS have plot holes cause its a fucking teen drama but he doesn't care and screams about it anyway

Alex used to make better structured videos before the animated ones, his quality really fell after that.

merna i don’t think he ever says a show is shit, he just takes the piss out of teen dramas while being fully aware of the fact that he is far from the target audience. It’s just meant to be for entertainment and i think “not nitpicking” is supposed to mean, that he looks more at the plot at large rather than the tiny inconsistencies in the costumes and props

@@merna5685 If a show doesn't grab you, you're well within your rights to drop it even after a first episode, and he doesn't say they're terrible he just makes jokes most of the time (half of which is self-deprecating humor) and says at the end he just finds them okay. The only show he really says his awful is Riverdale which he has watched all off so he's clearly not just going of ONLY the pilot there

@Falcon Fern I mean, in a sense I think part of his whole persona is being just this very extra and dramatic raccoon in a human skinsuit so hyperbolic titles would be kinda up his alley. Then again arguably his whole persona is kind of an ironic take on angry video game critics, one of his most common gags is him saying something along the lines of "this and that is... sorta... middlingly bad, and that is like, terrible" and proceeding with a nuanced take on it. So I guess he took the piss out of a more general genre, and his style of taking the piss spawned a format of that genre.

@@antonioscendrategattico2302 That first sentence is an amazing description of Harris, and I hope he sees it one day

@YaBoi Depression Have you watched Mlp?

@YaBoi Depression it's also made for 7 year olds so i dont take it seriously.

It's easy to make someone sound angry when you only show the parts where they yell.

@YaBoi Depression Great argument.

@@thehumanflintfun9666 yo, Lily sounded angry in HER video lol. That's fact

I get that their humour is a bit try hard and not for everyone (including me), but when a video is leaving out major plot holes to make boob and dick jokes, anyone with half a brain would realize their aim is to be satirical. Shaun's video dug so deep and tried so hard to make them seem like they're taking themselves seriously it's almost funny.

@@Arcanineisthebest But... it's not satirical. They're not satirizing anything. They're just pointing out random stuff that most of the time isn't even a real mistake and... I guess that's funny for some people, I won't judge. But that's not what satire is. If anything, Shaun's video is more satirical of Cinema Sins' content than whatever CS is supposed to be satire of.

@@carolinealmeida5606 CS points out thing that doesn't make sense or mistakes that were accidentally done

Arcanineisthebest Satirical of what exactly? “Satire” has a target, it’s creating an exaggerated version of something to point out perceived flaws. So, for example, AVGN was originally satire. If Cinemasins were satire, it would have to be satire *of* the kind of nitpicky dumbass videos that they make. But that can’t be true because satire of that would mean they wouldn’t also be presenting their true opinions of the movies. Which they also do in their “sins.” And they wouldn’t describe themselves as having created the channel to “call out” Hollywood for its repetitiveness or reliance on tropes. It’s schroedinger’s sarcasm/satire. When people agree with them they’re lauded, when they get called out “it was like satire man.”

@maeb they are comedy videos. He says that he likes a lot of movies on his channel, but it is fun to nitpick, it shouldn't be taken so seriously.

She got mad at James Rolfe because he did not see that shitty New Ghostbusters movie. Luckily, the film *financially failed* and James came out on top at the end 😏

@@frogglen6350 oke and?

@@frogglen6350 And that has to do with what, exactly?

@@carolsanz2625 how enlightening

@@frogglen6350 too bad he had to align himself with rude people, by validating cretin behaviour

I actually watched that video out of curiosity. It was bad.

@@lizucavictoria how so?

@@thudles5004 imo, the points that were brought up were very nitpicky

I actually watched it and some points were interesting, but she really went on some slippery slopes when she insinuated that Rebecca Sugar is a white supremacist. Overall it was really nitpicky and pretentious, but she made very few good points about the inconsistent schedule and incompetence of storyboarders, not to mention the very inconsistent art stye too.

@Burning Blaze Lily Orchard has a particular knack for long, rambling criticisms that take forever to get to the main point. Compare that to HBomb, who puts in a lot of effort making sure none of the time he spends feels wasted. Of course, it helps that unlike Lily, HBomb actually knows how to be funny.

Sometimes an idea is so good that multiple people come up with it independently. That being said I think bob's vid is worth seeing since it goes into more detail there so here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ELEAsGoP-5I.html

But they are great. Correct and funny

RedLetterMedia does it right. It’s not truly about the movies but about the humor.

I do agree, and I don't personally like those videos at all, but I think that, if nothing else, they do a much much better job of being clear about the line between "character" and "creator." The ridiculously over-the-top villanousness/loathesomeness of the character delivering the review (wasn't there someone held hostage in their basement in one of those videos?) signals very strongly that you shouldn't take the criticisms entirely too seriously. Whether or not that worked out in practice isn't for me to say, though.

I’ve always thought that plinkett was supposed to show you had to be truly deranged to care about Star Wars stuff as much as he does

Those Plinket reviews were pretty *gross* though

The only way I could know whether Solo was a genuinely bad film was to see Jenny Nichols destroy it. The unbridled, unapologetic, and utterly self-aware-less hysteria surrounding the Last Jedi literally had people who liked the movies changing their opinions post review. Luckily Nichols was as similarly unapologetic and stubborn-headed as these flip-floppers about all the reasons she liked the movie. They were complaining about a director who's previous work had been lauded over by the nerd community, a guy many of them didn't seem to realize directed one of the best episodes of Breaking Bad, and who obviously is a talented filmmaker on the film's merits alone, and these fanboys made jokes about him never working in Hollywood again, and celebrated his expulsion from the series' future installments. Despite making a _universally critically acclaimed_ commercial blockbuster, and despite it being the final film of beloved Star Wars actress and _feminist_ Carrie Fisher; of course the film's toxic criticisms were tinged with the same anti-feminist rhetorical hackery as The Force Awakens, dialed up to 11. It's no wonder then that when a prequel featuring Han Solo dropped, with a reportedly "Hollywood Blacklist" level script behind it, and another acclaimed, and this time Academy Award _winning_ director in Ron Howard, that I was skeptical of the film's low quality, even when accounting for the reported production problems, and a change in directors. It felt good, in a weird sort of way, when I tuned into Jenny's video and she had very little that was good to say about the movie, because at least I could trust that her opinions were sincere and considered.

The Last Jedi turned my 15yr-old niece off Star Wars; her mum had been raising her on the franchise for years - being an avid fan herself - but Rian Johnson killed her interest in ever seeing another Star Wars movie. Luckily she still loves the Marvel movies, so I can take her to see those instead. I'm the "cool" aunty because I like the "cool" things that she and her little friends like, so I'm actually kinda glad she doesn't want to see any more of the Star Wars stuff. Personally, my favourite sci-fi was Babylon 5 and Farscape. Never really cared about Star Wars, that was my sister's love, so I'm actually a little bit greatful to Johnson for making such a shitty movie and saving me from having to see any more of that dull universe.

@@CalamityM r/thathappened. stop pretending that because a small child has your opinion it makes you credible.

@@CalamityM r/thathappened. stop pretending that because a small child has your opinion it makes you credible.

"Why The Last Jedi was SJW FEMINIST PROPAGANDA TRASH!" Not to be confused with "Why Black Panther is ANTI-WHITE MARXIST GARBAGE"

Which video?

Everything Sarah said here was a lie btw

@@beamer9872 huh

@@beamer9872 If by "everything" you mean literally nothing, then yes.

@@Hawkatana thank you for reminding me that i used to watch steven universe video essays, this sucks.

Yeah I love when youtube recommendations introduce me to awesome new channels I didn't know before.

Hey Allison

CinemaWins makes me feel really good inside, it's nice to find something wholesome between all the drama on RU-vid nowadays.

Some Crazed Nerd that’s a weird place for wholesomeness but okay.

CinemaWins doesn't lie about movies and in my opinion are much funnier. Proof: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ELEAsGoP-5I.html Edit: Wow I never thought people would actually watch this video based on the likes, thanks guys

cinemawins is great what are you talking about

@@johnreese5739 That's what they're saying.

Haha yes the irony is strong.

Except for the part where none of them did this

Psyche1903 There's a difference between saying something confidently and saying something is objectively true. There is an understanding that any critical analysis of any form of media is someone's subjective opinion.

@@lProN00bl Titling a video 'X is garbage and here's why' is doing exactly this

@@wschippr1 "There is an understanding that any critical analysis of any form of media is someone's subjective opinion." There are parts in any media that can be objectively bad by commonly agreed standards. For example: if a video game is so badly coded that it does not even start then that game would be objectively badly made, no matter your personal opinion.