Ballistics Gel Test: Are 6.5mm cartridges sufficient for big game? 

That's one of the most impressive stories I've heard in a while!

Probably didn’t have an exit wound though

@@JTTTTT850 I don't think it did. I think the rib on the other side was cracked, but no exit.

7mm mag. May have only penetrated 1/4" more, but on game it thumps harder than all the other cartriges mentioned by a big margin. I have a .300 rcm which is the parent case to the 6.5 prc and it is a nice cartridge for all game in the lower 48.

DRT requires a hit/distruption in the central nervous system. If both lungs and heart is penetrated all that is keeping the animal alive is the oxygen in the muscles and brain. After that its dead. But It can run far... Or mechanical damage, shoot the shoulders and it cant move the legs etc etc.

Deer>

Give us some feedback on the 6.5 creed on the Africa game. Bullet type and size, shoulder shot vs tradional behind the shoulder, animal size.

@@Savoy6thisisbulldog Sure, my Creedmoor has been in the field with me a bunch of times now, and it's done very well in the thick bush. I started with the Hornady ELD-X 143gr, which I decided was better for longer distances on the plains. But I moved over to a heavier bullet for the bush, where your average shooting distance is 80 yards. Currently I'm using Sellier & Bellot 156gr, and it's done tremendously well. I've always preferred shooting behind the shoulder, it's a lot less damage and meat loss. The Creedmoor does quite a bit of damage at such a short distance, and there's a decent amount of fragmentation, but all the shots I've taken have gone through the animal. The game I've taken down have been mostly smaller game: warthog, impala and blesbuck, blesbuck being the biggest (70kg, or 150 pounds roughly). Headshots and spine shots have worked particularly well. I do have an acquaintance who took a shoulder shot on a Blue Wildebeest with a Creedmoor, the bullet didn't penetrate through the bone, and the shot wasn't fatal. So on bigger game your shot placement is much more important. Hope this helps.

I totally agree! 6.5 Swede and the 6.5-264 Norma are fantastic hunting cartridges. High BC projectiles retain energy, drift less, High SD for deep penetration (with the correct bullet selection) lighter recoiling, and accurate. I prefer all copper projectiles as I know there is little chance of having a bullet failure even if presented a very close shot and it will retain damn near all its weight, I know the copper ballistic tip/hollow point is going to do its job. Cup and core, soft points, and even some modern A frame and bonded bullets do fail or lose a significant amount of bullet weight leading to poor outcomes.

Their will to live sounds amazing. Over here in BC mountain goat has the same reputation, if you don't hit them right the first time especially you can have a rodeo on your hands.

Goed om ander SAners hier te sien! Theuns' description is spot on. They really don't like dying.

I hunt elk with 6.5 prc and I've shot many over 400 yards. It requires a follow up shot. Other than that, it's a great flat shooting round.

@@iblongshia everyone has their opinions. Personally, I disagree. But, nothing can be too dead. Best of luck to you!

@@iblongshia If your shot placement's on target and you needed a follow up shot, you're using the wrong bullet for the distance.

@@TechieTard I switched to 6.5 prc for fun, just because I wanted to but I found out that shots past 400 yards (even with good shot placement) doesn't have enough knock down power. I've since gone back to my 300wm or 300 ultramag for further shot's.

The PRC is a great round imo but the ELD-X is a poorly designed bullet for big game. I would have zero issues elk or moose hunting if I was running 140 grain Partitions, Accubonds, or TTSXs.

And the 308 ammo is widely available, what is not to like?

The 308 is like the 7x57 7x64 8x57is 30.06 9,3x62 they are all old but Gold they are all Medium Caliber not to small not to Heavy they Work as they Should they are Workhorses that doesnt fail you / the Gunmakers only give you New Calibers to sell you New Guns but the New Ones normally doesnt do a better Job than the good Old Ones Why are the 6.5x55 7x57 / 7x64/ 8x57 / 8x64 / 9.3x62 for the Metric or 270 Win 308 / 30.06 for the American Calibers around since 100 years and more cause they Do the Job and they Do it excellent on all Game on the Planet and with modern Bullets and Powders they Do it better than ever before The 6.5 Creedmoor with high Bc bullet bla bla bla you can put High Bc bullets on every of the good old ones too not exklusiv on the New Cartridges... i allways laugh about such arguments for New Cartridges... 😀

More proof that the eldx bullets not the best for deep penetration .

@@rodneyhickman825 yes when you want Penetration go with Nosler Partition or Accubond / Barnes TTSX / Swift AFrame / Peregrine VLR4 (excellent Bullets as Alternative for Barnes TTSX they are from South Africa) and so on

@@rodneyhickman825 yeah ELDX is a soft bullet made to expand properly at low velocites (long range). I would think that they are TO soft for large animals and expand to fast at close ranges, if i shoot a moose i want both lungs penetrated and preferably passthrough, if not they will be able to run for miles before dying, instead of couple yards.

Chad Mcswain I agree. When you change distances and game size, some serious consideration needs to go to bullet design that can reach the internals, then hemorrhage them with a wound channel that can do this quickly and ethically. My experience is the same, although the smaller calibers work, the 30 calibers to this best.

I've been running copper for 30 yrs. They go in the caliber your using and exit twice that diameter with tremendous hydro shock in between. I have two holes pouring blood and I've not lost an animal. If you are doing depredation use a soft point, and even the 6.5 will slam them to the ground as they blow up, dropping all the energy immediately. They are cheaper as well. Good luck and as hansetx says "keep making those bacon pancakes"!

That’s why 7mm rem mag is perfect

Lonestarboars talks on this. He mentions next to .308 for hog, the 7.62x39 does the job inside his atypical stalking ranges. Better than 6.5grendel and 6.8spc. For pistol and PCC’s I was surprised to hear .45 at closer ranges for dispatching hog. .45 obviously has less penetration than 9mm but greater surface area

I like 20mm for light work

Coming from a shotgun only country, smoothbores with slugs not accurate enough, yet buckshot was quite efective on deer, Ups, you had to sneak within 35 Yds, That was long before screw in chokes, I extended my range when I got a 30-30 barrel and had it turned to fit my 12 Ga barrel

👍👍👍

Hornady SST 150 in my .308 blows up quick and jellies internals.👍

I switched to copper because the ELD-X was to harsh on the meat... Barnes TTSX and Sako's Powerhead Blade is awesome

So long as some lacking-integrity punks from Sportsman's Warehouse stop plagiarizing his work.

It's all shot placement. Plenty of professional cull hunters in Africa hunt just about every plains game with 5.56.

@@MrMalicious5 Correct but culling is all about headshots. If you shoot body shots on a cull you will lose money as you lose carcass weight. I wont shoot an Eland on the shoulder with a 223Rem but it would work for headshots. I have culled a bunch of animals with my 22-250 because it's flat shooting, low recoiling and economic to shoot. I won't hunt bigger animals with a 22-250 etc. as I have seen them fail on body shots too many times. Shot placement is always key but the bullet has to be tough and travel fast enough to penetrate deep enough to kill.

On a ballistics aspect a 6.5 PRC carries more energy from the 160-200yd mark and onward, under that distance the 30-06 has more energy. Has more to do with the BC than anything and having a larger bullet in the 30-06 would pose an argument that the actual energy isn’t the best medium to measure lethality. Would definitely be a good comparison video

@@BartTheSpartan is that still true with a 30-06 nosler or barnes vortex bullet with a ballistic tip? I have 180gr balistic tip nosler rounds that shoot 2750fps, or a 168gr that shoots 2900fps?

@@MrMalicious5 That is so crazy! I would never have thought that

In Germany we have the Saying what is better then a Bulletdiameter it is a bigger Bulletdiameter 😜 30.06 8x57is 8x68s 9.3x62 9.3x64 with Nosler Accubond or Partition or Barnes TTSX / Swift AFrame or when you want something from SA go with Peregrine VLR4 that are good Choices for Bigger Game

@@lenzadlberger 😂😂 That's the truth!

“Poor mans Buffalo”

It becomes more alive the more times you shoot it. 🍺🤣👍

@@sha6mm nonetheless he went straight to doing penetration tests on gel without examining the penetration on the actual animal that caused his suspicion

7mm is too fast to run cup and core bullets, they just end up fragmenting or overexpanding. Faster dosent mean more penetration if the bullet construction dosen't hold up. Bonded or copper bullets will resist overexpansion and give much better penetration.

@@sha6mm ELD-Xs are rebranded target bullets. They’re crap.

@@borkwoof696 Those ELD-Xs blow up (on me) like a varmint bullet. I flat out won't use them on anything bigger than a coyote and never on anything I intend to eat. Great paper punchers though. Game animals are not made of gel and actual recovered bullets tell the real story. It's to bad those ELD-X bullets aren't bonded.

@@doghousedon1 yup, I suppose they’re ok at longer distances and lower velocities but a) should you/do you really hunt at those distances and b) why not use a bullet that also works for the more likely close range shots.

Good point, notice how the pallet was more disturbed with the 308 and 7mm? Could've been shot placement, but I feel like it had more to do with energy

Hence why (this is to support your argument) that airsoft fields use joules to limit guns by velocity and projectile weight.

It's both... Ideally you want energy transfer to destroy vital organs plus penetration to get through the front shoulder and produce a good blood trail via exit wound. Barnes TTSX and Hornady GMX accomplish this and are ideal for Big Moose and Bull Elk. For little deer, expansion bullets like SST or Interlock or Nosler BT work fine. I would not use expansion bullets on Big moose and elk for fear of not adequately penetrating the shoulder. The middle ground are the bonded bullets like Accubond and Interbond. They Expand reliably and penetrate adequately.

@Paul Energy numbers are nothing more than a simple quantification of the energy potential of the projectile, with more energy there is more potential to cause tissue damage depending on what the projectile does within the animal. Frangible bullets that fracture in the lung cavity are very lethal, but if they can't get past a large bone to deliver this effect to the vitals it's a fail. I agree that frangible target bullets are not wise choices for hunting. However light game like whitetail deer that do not have massive shoulder bones in front of vitals can definitely be taken reliably with rapid expansion style hunting bullets such as SST, Nosler BT, and the like (but staying within published max and min velocity limits)... provided you can place the round in the vital zone. I wouldn't use these on big moose and elk... no way! For the big bruins you want something that will go right through both shoulders and leave a good enough mess in between... My favorite is Barnes TTSX (staying above published min. velocity limits). On little deer, the Barnes TTSX passes through with plenty of retained weight and energy but they deliver sufficient enough damage anyways because they expand so reliably... You will get runners on some lung shots but they will leave blood trail so Barnes is versatile for pretty much anything large or small. The reason for going with something like SST on deer is that they are inexpensive and very accurate so you can shoot lots at the range with your SST loads without breaking the bank. IMHO. I wish the bonded bullets like the Hornady Interbond and Nosler Accubond weren't so darn pricey and hard to find... they are sweet... and sort of like in between the performance characteristics of a Hornady SST and a Barnes TTSX. So many great choices... can't with till the supply chain recovers and we can find them on the shelves again. Cheers.

@Paul Energy can kill and is what causes tissue damage. there are many examples of energy doing so. And I’m not referring to ammo the brakes apart when it enters an animal that kind of projectile wouldn’t be effective at delivering energy at all. An effective round should be able to stay together, dump a large amount of energy into the target, and still be able to penetrate deep enough to either pass through or making to the opposite side of a target.

Agreed

I also agree. Also, what’s your terminal energy with 6.5’s at 400 versus 7mm mag. In case of lesser shot placement always better to error on side of energy. In addition, lower terminal energy may lead to greater chance of bullet deflection from shoulder or rib. Might look like good shot at entrance but, where is it bouncing around in chest cavity?

????? Over penetration? That's exactly what you want when you hunt. Animals haven't read about energy transfer.

Over penetration?! A good bullet dumps energy and penetrates clear through creating a wound channel and a good blood trail. Think Partitions and the tougher A-Frames.

have you never shot an animal? there is no such thing as "over penetration", two holes are better than one

There’s getting to be more factory options

Nosler makes a 142gr Trophy Grade 6.5 PRC. They work great but I still the Hornady Eldx is better.

@@LaXStuD9191 the eldx might group better. But the nosler accubond LR bullets are just a better than the ELDX for hunting. The ELDX just turns to powder on impact. And Ive taken enough bluewildebeest to know that you dont use a bullet that preforms like the ELDX on them

@@francoisbuys8783 for Handloaders go with Swift AFrame, Nosler Partition or Accubond, Barnes TTSX, Peregrine VLR4 or for Bushhunting VRG3

Fact, 6.5PRC out performs a 7mag past 200yds (same bullet weight), and delivers over 1500 ftlbs at 500yds. More than enough for elk if you shoot them right 🤔

It’s true that the vast majority of gel tests we see are at short range. That leaves a big knowledge gap as to what really happens at longer hunting ranges. Nearly all modern hunting bullets look good at short range. But what really happens passed 200 meters?

@@simondenis9511 just load down the powder charge to lower the velocity. There has been tests done like this on RU-vid. Results are less dramatic wound channels.

@@wcndguy5302 Just downloading the velocity might hide other factors. At 200 yards vs 15 yards the angle of incidence would differ and that would have an impact on bullet stability and the likelyhood of tumbling. The spin imparted on the bullet also differs, the bullet leaving the barrel at a higher velocity would have greater spin than the bullet leaving at a lower velocity.

@@gavinreid1649 I think those factors probably wouldn’t matter much at all. Major driving force is velocity.

@@wcndguy5302 I disagree, both the angle of incidence and the rate of spin will affect the likelyhood of the bullet tumbling.

That would be a good one. I would love to see that also!

I'd like to see 300 weatherby in that mix also

Might as well throw 30-06 and 308 in there also battle of the 30 cals

Don’t forget 300 RUM, SAUM, Nosler, Norma, Savage, H&H….🤷‍♂️

Win mag and short mag have to be close

Yes, but some cartridges can generate more velocity even with the same caliber/bullet design.

In Sweden we shoot about 80 000 moose every year. Historically most of the moose and brown bears are shot with 6.5x55mm. I would say .308w is taking over. I own two Sako rifles in .308w and have shoot 9 moose so far. A few capercaillies as well.

Facts

I agree. Bullet design is more important. From many different RU-vid channels testing ELD-X bullets, the general conclusion is the perform like match bullets. Smaller wound channels and greater chance of breaking apart. Can’t argue with the Nosler Partition.

the Federal terminal ascent and swift sirocco are good choices as well. lead up front with a heavier tapered jacket, and a solid copper base.

@@jonathanrogers9961 - I completely agree.

@@jonathanrogers9961 also Peregrine VLR4 there are many good Solid Bullets out there i hunt with Nosler Partition and Accubond, Barnes TTSX and Peregrine VLR4

@@lenzadlberger will have to look into the peregrine. Not a fan of accubond for big game. Among solids lehigh and hammer also come to mind

@@jonathanrogers9961 the Accubonds i use for the Time in the Year when we go for Meat Hunting Wildboar Piglets or for Fellow Deer / Roe Deer and Buck So from 10 up to 60kg for this they work great for Bigger i use Nosler Partition Barnes TTSX or Peregrine VLR4 my 308 works great with Barnes ttsx and the Accubond / my 7x57R with Nosler Partition and Barnes TTSX and in my 8x57is and 8x68s i go with the Peregrine or Partition espacially in the 8x68s you need Hard Bullets all thin Jackets nearly explode in it and so does the Target... 200grains at 3000 ft/s is no Joke 😜

Agree 100%. That is why they reccomend accubond bullets for big game like elk

Well, it has ligher bullets at lower velocities.. You might get penetration but only because it move to slow to expand properly. Its NO replacement for creedmoor or 308, they are TWICE the gunpowder. With copper bullets (say a 100 grain) you will get full penetration on most animals if you have a 20" barrel.. But thats mostly the design of copper bullets.

@@jmkhenka spoken like someone that doesn't know much about grendel terminal ballistics. 123g hunting rounds expand reliably out of an 18 inch barrel out to 400y with most hunting loads. And if the quantity of powder mattered that much, the 7mm mag would have more penetration. This test showed that the increased penetration from all that extra energy was minimal. So again, I'd like to see how it fares for myself, rather than assuming things based on numbers on a chart.

@@OneLocalStudent there is sufficient videos on the Grendel. It's no replacement for a larger round. I have one, would never bring it for hunting (if swedish laws allowed it, wich it doesnt. It lacks 500J of energy @100 meters) what i normalt would use a 308 for, or a 6.5x55.

@@jmkhenka Grendel is 35gr and Creedmoor is 52gr case capacity so no not even close. 70gr would be double the capacity of 6.5 Grendel.

@@jmkhenka and i just watched a gel test of a 120gr Hornady GMX at 2550fps penetrate 27” in Gel with a bigger wound channel than these because it’s a superior bullet construction.

I’m curious about this too. The pictures of the first bullets looked correctly expanded. I’m sure he did it this way so he didn’t need like 10 blocks to catch bullets. Interesting test nonetheless.

My son took a great 6x6 bull elk last year using the 127 Barnes LRX in 6.5 Creed. Granted it was only 110 yards. But we have come to like that bullet for his Creed. I use Nosler 130 AB in my 6.5 PRC and it has always been "no tracking required".

I am curious on what rounds you use. I have a 6.5CM AR and love the accuracy.

What is the difference with interlock and ELD-X

@@Dino2GunZ Pretty sure they are almost identical. The ELDX just has a different shape and ballistic tip for a higher BC.

@@Nick-sx6jm okay thanks for the reply I appreciate it I'm not a hunter I don't know too much about the hunting rounds

The 150gr. LR Accubond could give a few more inches in the 6.5 PRC!

Very smart man! Only person I saw call out the obvious. 6.5s have deeper penetration due to it's surface area on contact being thinner. so if the bullet was a solid, non expanding, it would have gone through both gels, at least I know the 6.5 prc would have, I've seen it. Expanding bullets dump all of there energy the second the bullets punctures the first surface it punctures. The guy doesn't know much about ballistics and bullet design.

Should definitely get into reloading, it saves money and you can make custom and more accurate loads. Personally I have only had bad experiences with the ttsx's that I have tried in multiple calibers but others swear by them. If you want a good high BC hunting bullet that wont blow lots of lead into the meat then look at the accubonds, fed fusion, swift scirocco 2's or any good bonded bullet.

A good, usually cheaper bullet by Speer used to be the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. Haven't loaded any in years, may not still make them? The FBI rifle load used this bullet at one time. A 62 grain bullet with the initials stamped on the rear of the bullet. I still have few boxes left. I tested these and through 2 to 3 inches of wood it held its weight and shape like a large caliber bonded bullet. Which actually surprised me considering 5.56 usually doesn't perform like that.

i,ve watched lots of stuff on the ELD-X fragmenting. and was surprised how some seem to think that's a good thing. they like that that improves their chances of hitting vitals. absolutely insane logic.

Haha. Yeah, he really gets in the zone. Took him a minute to get excited.

Looks pretty reserved in nature. Those are the sorts of rifleman that get the job done because placing a shot isn't influenced by testosterone and adrenaline and messed up judgement.

The 6.5x55 Swede has been used for generations to take Moose, Brown bear and deer sized animals in Europe. It’s not the caliber it’s the bullet construction.

@@Peter-od7op Works just fine if you know the limits of your round...95% of all hunters have no business shooting more than 400 yards. 6.5 will take elk just fine out to that point. Anything farther just get a 6.5 PRC.

Bullet construction too. And not shooting too large of an animal for the given caliber. Even the PRC was severely underpowered for that wildebeest. You missed half the point of the video.

@@JTTTTT850 I bet a 375 hh to the guts might not have ended well either. Keep shooting till they are down. After the first shot need to keep sending lead with any caliber game combo. If they are on their feet they have a chance to keep going. I saw my dad put a 300 wby hornady bullet into a cow elks chest but a little far back but still caught at least one lung at around 200 and she ran approximately 1/2 a mile to 3/4 of a mile before we found her still breathing. She required a 2nd shot to finish her. Biggest point being I don’t believe hornady projectiles on game are all they are hyped up to be.

Partition here, haven’t tried Accubonds, can’t find anything right now.

@@Bigfish1day Nosler stated on their website that Partition users won't see any benefit from switching to Accubond bullets unless they are more accurate from a particular rifle.

@@jayklarquist7912 Thanks for the info but I have no intentions of switching to Accubonds. I believe in if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Most intelligent words I've heard.

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