Excellent video, thank you. I am in the UK, not a firefighter, but deal with these types of battery every day. We have u/s batteries stored in large plastic barrels with lids and these are stored away from the building in the yard. I dread to think what would happen if one went rogue 😞.
As a person who does low volume electronics recycling that's pretty scary. Thankfully I see a milk crate worth at a time at the most. A video on how to properly transport them would be cool.
It's an interesting topic. With the variety of batteries that are transported, how the newer types fail, especially as they age, may become very important. Not sure there is a proper way to transport them - just guidelines to mitigate the worst of the risks.
@@joytotheworld9109 the company I recycle them with just asks the contacts are taped. They have mentioned they transport the batteries in metal drums. Hopefully things will be done in the long term to make lithium battery recycling and management safer.
Hi there I live in England and about 30 years ago a ferry capsid and it end up as a major hazard as several lorries had toxic and hazardous materials the ferry company didn't know. As cargo was just a customs clearance. After that the government passed a law that eny vehicle with over 500 kg of hazardous materials has to display an orange square 40cm x40cm front and back. At all times so even on the road at a traffic insedent smaller / hidden hazard can be seen. Larger lorries have a hazardous materials plate with changeable letters that tell the emergency service what's on the lorries.
I think many of us RC enthusiasts have known for years the potential for catastrophe from improper battery handling! I can only imagine the devastation of a large event. I don't even take my 3s batteries in house until cool down after use. One battery fire was enough for me! ✌️
Fire crews are trained to deal with all kinds of flammable and noxious chemicals; the vehicles carrying them have hazard codes to make their job a little easier. The presence of unstable lithium batteries in unmarked containers means they have to become bomb-disposal experts, too.
True. While tyres may pop or backdraft or other horror situations can happen to firemen, the new concentrations of energy in unpredictable forms such as this are indeed low grade explosive hazards, much like fireworks - extremely dangerous in most cases. These are a much more serious chemical hazard than most fireworks of course.
Holy cow. Dont take old lithium batteries. These things are a giant pain in the butt..our trucking company already suffered a total loss of a rig cause of a couple skids of this crap. Now our safety dept has laid the law down to us
That was an impressive, eye opening, personal account. Thankfully we have professional folk that can deal with events like this efficiently and as safely as possible. These consignments roll amongst us.
ironically i saw somebody ask the question in another video here on RU-vid related to the Tesla Semi fire, "How often really do we have a truck carrying batteries catch on fire...?" A: A LOT...!!! i had not heard of this incident so by my count (since i'm big on keeping score at home) this is event #6.
The cleanup was billed to the shipping company. I'm assuming the shipping company's insurance would have paid. I'm also working on a video specific to the regulations on how these types of batteries need to be shipped. Unfortunately, we have seen multiple explosions/fires due to battery shipments in the USA.
I've hauled old and damaged lithium ion batteries in my big rig. Ive always used class 9 placards but i think they need to be reclassified as a class 4 (flammable solids, spontaneously combustible materials, and substances that are dangerous when wet). These batteries are all of the above. At the very least as a class 5 explosive, but definitely class 4. Class 9 is way to broad and first responders can't immediately guage the danger when a class 9 placard is present if at all. Class 9 is basically substances that pose a hazard during transportation but are not classified. This literally tells me nothing on how to handle an emergency situation as a first responder.
Got to love the toxic water runoff from spraying water on these batteries that were not separated or contained in any way to prevent a toxic waste site every time these batteries go into thermal runaway!
"I wonder what happens when you contain a strong deflagration"? Early in the R/C transition to LIPO's people were storing their batteries in steel ammo boxes. That was until stories of blown out windows in cars started popping up in the hobby forums. Soon after fiberglass bags became the safety standard.
An excellent video! We tend to focus on the batteries for EVs, but this is a larger situation. Good to see different teams with different trainings help and watch out for each other. This reminded me about the transport of air canisters in airplanes. I will never forget the ValueJet that crashed in the Everglades. If I recall, the canisters did not have the pins to secure them from activating. Only one needed to be triggered; the rest is tragic history. I figured the batteries would be sorted out, and each type would go in a container. Obviously, that was not the case, and it looks like they get sorted at the recycling facility.
Great episode!! Maybe it’s just me but I definitely feel like the epa should have definitely been notified. And just curious what sorts of fines did the recycling place get, assuming it was their truck also?
Can you talk about the difference between fighting fires with solid-state batteries and LFP/Li-ion? There is confusion about which has lithium metals and how water can cause malfunction vs a chemical reaction, as well, and different chemistries carry different TRP.
I am working on a video about lithium-ion vs lithium metal. I talk about LFP in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YvQ9NEw76G8.html
@@StacheDTraining awesome, I know solid-state isn't what we're seeing yet but the hub bub says we will. Your info from the fire fighting aspects is helpful, appreciate it
Clearly, just like the Surprise AZ BESS incident, the batteries off-gassed flammable gas and ignited, resulting in a deflagration. These probably should be transported on a flatbed, no? Having the batteries piled in the drums is very dangerous, those batteries are heavy and the ones at the bottom will be crushed. All it takes is one charged up cell to be crushed, and you get a fire.
HMR 49 CFR defines how to ship damaged, defective, or recalled lithium batteries. If damaged Li-Ion batteries are not being shipped properly, trucking companies need to be fined significantly enough to correct the behavior. These types of incidents are already challenging enough.
It's actually the shipper that plays the major role in how DDR's are shipped and they have limited (if any) knowledge on how to identify DDR's and there are no standards that they can use to determine it. Needs more regulation.
I am the son of a man who's been in logistics for over thirty years. His experience includes hauling petroleum products while serving in the military and HazMat while driving commercially post separation. While there are many Federal and State hindrances (unnecessary/unnecessarily strict laws) pertaing to the Motor Carrier (MC) industry, I do believe there need to be better and uniform methods of communicating to first responders, including wrecking and clean-up crews with the types of materials involved in an MC incident. I also believe (I recognize the logistical challenge) that mixed battery types and the like should not be permisable.
I'm beginning to think that anything that has lithium ion batteries that is much bigger than a notebook or a drill should probably be designed to contain the battery during an exotherm event. Something like a PowerWall probably ought to be mounted and something that resembles an incinerator with a chimney, with a flash arrester and an ignition source ready to deploy right above the flash arrester to burn off anything that will burn so that it don't build up and cause an explosion. Then if something goes wrong you can just wait for it all to cool down, then connect up a hose and fill it up with brine and wait some more. Then I think it'd be pretty safe to dismantle everything and carry it away. But I don't have any idea how you do anything like that while they're in transport.
Some friends were offshore fishing with one of the large trolling motors that are powered by a large lithium cell. They had an issue and the battery started running away. They thought quickly and were able to immediately toss it overboard. Some parts of the unit were enough to keep it from sinking but the battery, fully submerged, continued to react for over a half hour before finally damaging the thing enough to sink. There was smoke coming up from below the surface as it offgassed and yet it kept reacting basically as long as it stayed in view. I know we won't see them go away, but they have to fix it on the manufacturing and electronic side cause once they get going, even dropping them into the ocean doesn't help.
My local hardware store has a lithium battery recycling bin located right next to the entrance of their store. It's often filled with old beat up tool batteries and I wonder how often they empty that thing because it is not rated for any kind of fire resistance. If it was to catch fire one of the entrances of that store will effectively be blocked.
Interesting. I just take all my batteries to the local household hazmat collection center. I always assumed they latter sorted them and properly packed them.
Yes, they make their own oxygen. This is also a issue for car haulers, who's fire suppression system involves flooding the deck that's on fire with CO2.
Excellent excellent Story here, are you aware of any people in the fire industry working to change the rules with trucks that carry this stuff to have to be properly placarded, it’s crazy these huge loads of stuff like this are moving around and obviously like this somebody could run afoul of it and not know what they’re getting into
I'm guessing wonder if the insurance companies for the carrier, freight broker and shipper will be fighting in court for years regarding who was liable for this incident.
To me, that incident wasn't an accident. The company that packaged the batteries should charged with criminal negligence, with no recourse of pleading ignorance.
Cost, cost, cost. People of B'ham (a sister city of mine in Ala) ate all the city fire worker's time. The FED ate (all of the country) the cost of the conflagration of agents running around. Flying J had an insurance claim, and albeit the area of the parking lot was remote somewhat to the main pumps and the store, loss of capacity to allow truckers to park which is lost opportunity. The people recycling the batteries that incorrectly packaged them should be hit by OSHA or the EPA or BOTH for the entire cost start to end of entire operation every cent of the whole thing. I know the recycler was not doing the work for free so why did he cut corners and not pack the batteries as required. Why did he not placard the truck (OSHA/ANSI Z535.4 product safety signs and labels - OSHA violation for not properly labeling the trailer, DOT will also have a cat in that fight). Green lithium is not green people. These were small batteries think about millions of chassis size batteries in cars not well maintained! Is the price of green for the tree huggers ultimately destruction of the planet due to chemical poisoning?
@@StacheDTraining one news story butchered it. They claimed the fire department recommended not plugging electronics like phones in overnight in response to a container port fire.
@StacheDTraining it was like they are trying to draw attention away from the real problem. I'd bet this will be more used scrap batteries packaged improperly like the grenaded van trailer you featured earlier.
A large part of the issues is USA's poor standards and all down to the $. In the UK we have Hazmat And loads like that would have the Orange plates of Doom front and rear plus on front of unit if semi. Truck would have safety equipment for driver and driver would be Hazmat accredited with the training and retraining to keep tickets. They would have the paperwork/Certificates for the load to hand to whoever needed it like fire so they can assess what it is and correct procedures to extinguish or to stop it starting and so on. Plates on trucks have codes and ratings to denote what is loaded without anyone having to say open a trailer.
I'm reading the TRANSCRIPT, what a mess these things are, many mistakes - I'm guessing it's a RU-vid system option - it needs to be greatly improved - Channel creators should demand better from YT.
Burning Man / Burning Tesla ... U2oob: Tesla @ Playa Unfortunate man burning ... U2oob: Tesla iPhone dials 911 Burning EV 19th Amendment ... U2oob: 2 women White Plains
No cell phones, no laptops, no Raycons, no battery tools........ Y'all bleat about how getting rid of fossil fuels will send us back to the stone age... Same goes for lithium batteries.
Hummer EV on video enerjetically blazing away. Doesn't say where or when. No luck Googling. U2oob: "Hummer ev on fire" ... and include the quotes ... to avoid last February's Hummer EV collision fire.
How many ice fires do you ignore for every EV fire you make a video of? EV and petrol fires are going to happen but what you are doing is down grading ice fires and blasting the few EV fires
Maybe watch some more of his videos to see what the concerns are of an EV fire vs an ICE vehicle fire. The difference is how they burn not that they burn
No one is ignoring anything we don't need to discuss ice car fires we have been dealing with them for many years. Lithium batteries fires are orders of magnitude more energetic and nearly impossible to extinguish this channel is about discussing how to deal with the less understood chemistry. Diesel and petrol car fires are well understood and simple to deal with.
2:08 - I've seen a lot of XTRA tractor-trailers in truck fire videos - are XTRA trucks just that more videogenic, or it there something else we should be concerned about?
Any carrier can go rent one of these trailers. Alot of carriers got started during the pandemic because of high shipping rates. Now the rates are very low due to supply and demand, loads vs available trucks. Seems to me the carrier was running the load illegally but the shipper didn't do their due diligence of making sure the carrier and driver were licensed for hazmat. The penalties will be severe I promise you on that. Their only saving grace is that no one was injured and this didn't occur on a public road.
