Just a Quick Note: the P1 V2 you showed in this video is NOT the one included in the CSL P1 Bundle. What you have is the P1 V2 Black Friday Edition wheel. The regular P1 V2 is slightly more expensive than the BF Edition but also has a (much) better rubber and an improved RevStripe part.
I didn't know about the Fanatec bundle when I bought the R5. Now that I do, I am glad I bought the R5. The steering wheel seems much better, especially since there is a F1 style wheel upgrade for only $40
Another Quick Note: 04:48 this is not entirely correct. The Bundle itself is ONLY PC compatible. The Base is Xbox ready, which means that when you attach a Xbox compatible steering wheel to it then it will work on Xbox. The P1 wheel however is not Xbox compatible at all. So out of the Box this Bundle is PC only.
To anyone reading this, the Fanatec bundle is currently $399. I didn't even need the pedals but went ahead and got the bundle because it was over $100 cheaper than just buying the base and rim alone. A pretty phenomenal deal.
Yea I bought it instantly when I saw it lol. I’m reselling the pedals too so it’s an unbelievable deal. I’ve even seen some DIY boost kit power supplies for 30 bucks that I might experiment with.
I have not yet decided what wheel to get, but the Fanatec is the "cheapest" by far. The Moza R5 bundle is $671 here with taxes. The Fanatec McLaren wheel + Loadcell brakepedal set + DD 5Nm is $700 shipped to my door. I prefer the Mclaren wheel and you also get loadcell pedal for 29 USD more.
I went with Moza because of the waiting period I experienced (with Fanatec) when I bought my first wheel, so I ended up with Thrustmaster until I could really decide who to go to for direct drive. I was able to get the Moza at a local store (not this bundle obviously) but having more selling path is a big plus. I got my first support from Moza (software related) and had a good experience. Also they may be small now but at the way they do business, I’m sure their user base will grow so that con is temporary. The software is solid especially for a beginner, something you miss to mention. And yeah, the quick release was a factor in my decision too. I love removing the wheel, something I couldn’t do on my previous setup.
Having owned both a CSL DD and now an R5, in my opinion the Moza offering is more superior. Firstly the smoothness of the DD feel is so different with the Moza than the CSL DD. The quick release is so much better it's unreal. The wheelbase and table clamp are also so much better than the CSL DD and much more practical if you don't have a rig (let's be honest, that's most of us that aren't RU-vidrs or with more forgiving partners!). The only issue is the pedals, however the brake kit for the R5 bundle is available for around $30 (highly recommend!) and you can always upgrade to a load cell later. In my opinion, Moza are still where it's at at this price point. Thanks for the vid!
id say both smoothness and the QR are great reasons to prefer the moza... but me personally, i think the moza R5 is a pretty cheap product using cheap components, it uses a 15bit encoder compared to the 16bit encoder fanatec uses, that makes the fanatec double the resolution in rotation, in fact the 15bit encoder is one of the lowest resolution DD's on the market, simagic uses 18bit encoders, moza's own r16 and r21 use 18bit encoders, simucube/asetek use 22bit encoders... thats 4 million steps per rotation vs 32 thousand steps per rotation... there are diminishing returns when it comes to encoder resolution but we shouldn't kid ourselves, moza went cheap in order to make it cheap. Another problem with the R5 that would personally worry me is it uses a slip ring design, this has some advantages like no wireless connection at all between wheel and base unlike most wheelbases that have some element of wireless connectivity within the base, so thats the positive, the negative outweighs it for me though, its a wearable part and moza do not rate it very highly, they claim 5 million rotations which at first sounds a lot but compare that to another wheelbase using a slip ring design - The Asetek bases and well it looks kind of grim for the moza, Asetek claim 200 million rotations on the slip ring they use, thats 40x longer lasting, significant step up in quality but ofcourse significant step up in price aswell.... but the point im making is the moza isnt some top end DD technology for small money, they have absolutely gone cheap to save money. With all that said, i absolutely do not like any kind of notchy steering, ive owned a DD1 a few years back and hated being able to feel the steps in the motor, moved to a simucube 2 pro and that was significantly better, so damn smooth... so yeh for that reason i would still strongly consider the moza... its just i do think fanatec uses higher quality hardware, its kind of undeniable, fanatec just executed it wrong and didn't put enough priority in places i think it needed it. So what am i saying, well id duck both of them and start at the R9 personally, you still get the 15bit encoder that moza call ''ultra high resolution'' (yeh right moza) which is an L but you duck the wear on a slip ring because it does not use one... i do not own either so just saying it how i see it, ive owned a simucube 2 like i said for a couple years now and have an Asetek invicta on the way.
the QR on the DD pro isn’t great but as with your rig comment - how many of the more normal entry level DD racers have multiple rims and swap them every day? Probably not many so does it matter that much?
@@MrKlawUK It's more in terms of it being a practical solution to clamp and unclamp frequently. The R5 and clamp is a lot less bulky and therefore much easier to take away and store, even without having to release the wheel from the base. Indeed I just clamp mine to a shelf at the side of my desk and it works great. With the CSL DD, although it is very compact compared to many bases of course, in terms of practicality the R5 seems to work with my semi-frequent sim habits much better.
@@jinx20001 fantastic comment. Knew about the rotation resolution (indeed it is cheap, but still feels good enough for the price). The slip ring life is troubling however, didn't know about that. Of course the proof will be in the pudding especially given that people such as myself (basically part-timers who still would like DD) are probably not going to be using it to it's end of life. Ultimately although you're partly right about the R9, but that's kind of the point - the R5 is aimed at those that are stepping up from a G29, rather than those that want to enter the $1000+ arena. It's a close call, for me just the ease of use is a massive factor and the notchy feel of the CSL DD (and also the flex) just proved too annoying, even with some of the benefits for example being able to use a budget wheel that still has magnetic shifters. Ultimately overall I am personally happier with the R5 than my CSL DD, but let's see if it breaks in the coming years!
My r9 should be here tomorrow I'm so excited. The quick release and the smaller size from the fanatec sold me on it. More really seems to have higher quality wheels for the price. Their gt wheel with a full forged carbon face is under half the price of the forged carbon BMW wheel from fanatec at 1400 dollars
Coming from a G920 I thought I'd be satisfied with the CLS DD 5 nm, but already after 2 weeks I bought the boostkit. In my opinion the biggest disadvantage of the R5 bundle is you have to buy a new wheelbase if you want to upgrade.
@@ihateracin If Dirt Rally 2.0 is your favorite game you don't need the boostkit or the R9. For road racing in simulator games like AC, ACC and Iracing you will def want more torque to feel the weight of the car.
@@mr1k666 As simracer I've learned one thing: you'll never be satisfied. At least not for a long period. The CLS DD 8nm is fine, but if I had a better income I would upgrade to the ClubSport DD 12nm.
Picked up an R5 bundle at my local Microcenter for $499, you could also get a set of Load cell SRP pedals for $150 there as well. Not a bad kit for $650.
I ordered the april 2023 R5 bundle batch for 539.99 including shipping and tax. Hopefully my youngest son with have it by mid April. Im currently using the Logitech G Pro racing and my oldest is us the Fanatec GT DD Pro. Sim racing is expensive for one person, trying buying it for 3 people. Still cheaper than when I use to go to the track - $600+ per day (trackday $250, gas ~$100, wear and tear ~$?,track tires slips are about $550 every 3-5 track days)
I went with moza because of quality issues with fanatec. That moza was much higher quality. And upgraded the brake pedal. My one gripe is shipping time. It takes an eternity.
You mean, if i buy the sr-p lite clutch pedal and perfomance kit for r5 bunde is compatible each other? And this combo i can use as brake pedal, and the official brake pedal can i switch to the clutch pedal?
I think the upgradability of the CSL DD gives it the edge over the Moza bundle. The jump from the Moza R5 to the R9 is a substantial increase in price; meanwhile, a new power supply for the CSL DD can basically bridge that gap for a fraction of the price (and, with a fraction of the hassle).
you can even bypass the ridiculous price of the Fanatec adapter and just get it third party for around 30 bucks. I myself have a Moza DD but this is for sure an edge that the Fanatec has over it.
@@kevinking9752 yes that’s very true but I was reading some reviews people are complaining that they don’t have force feedback after using the non genuine boost kit so I’m a bit sceptical but genuine boost kit from fanatec costs $260 in Australia which is not cheap at all
Absolutely fantastic video Mr SimRacing604, and I'll tell you why. I was getting worried with the professional Channels like yourself, GamerMuscle, Boosted Media & Race Beyond Matter - continually focusing on more & more extremely high-end Sim Racing Gear, almost to the point of elitism? So it's so great to see video's like this, that don't forget about us more "budget orientated" Sim Racers that have no way to afford all that high-end gear. So I personally am very grateful (to you) and any other channels that also cover the lower end of the Sim Racing Hardware Market. Cheers Mike.
@@DMAX_DIY Yes D-Max, and thanks for asking. But to be truthful, with the passing of my (Sim Racing) brother due to cancer - I have really lost the urge to continue with the Channel for the time being... I did think about doing a "This Channel is now Closed" video. But there is part of me that still thinks I might return in the future. So I don't want to say it's CLOSED, then go back on that announcement later down the track (pun intended ; )))
@@SingleRacerSVR yeah I feel your pain my friend.. Life is so precious and we never know what the next day will bring. Dont close your channel though. All things will pass they take time. Lean on us (collective sim racer guys) when you need to .. We are here to support and assist if possible. Wish you were a bit closer to USA I would come over and we could shoot the $hit but .. miles. anyway.. I saw you comment and thought I would say hello.. Dave
Thanks for the support, Dave. And yeah, I still want to support the other fantastic Sim Racing Channels by watching all of my Subscribed RU-vid Racing Channel video's (& others of course). But I just don't comment as much as I did in the past, these days ; )))
@@SingleRacerSVR Understood for sure my friend! I wish I had more time to look at everyones videos too but yeah time is time.. and not enough of it.. Your the Best my friend! I'm picking up some exit speed just by understanding your older videos which have helped me .. Dave
i bough Fanatec Race Ready bundle + the LC brake . Wish they can be delivered sometimes in April ... I pick this one instead of Moza because of the boost kit option i can get later to upgrade. ( it seems you can have Third party boost kit for like 50 euros, and they works just fine ) Nice video btw ;)
I would like to buy the same set RR ready bundle+LC brake. Can u share ur experiences with me? It is worth it? For GT3 races and rally aswell... Thanks a lot!
@@markhoffmann126 Hey ! So far i'm very happy with my csl. The loadcell is great but very stiff too. I'm gonna buy some 3rd party elastomer to make it softer because on longer races it is difficult to have consistant braking for me Force feedback is aawesome with dd wheels
@@markhoffmann126 Hey :° I wanted to give you an update since i change the elastomer. It's a must have upgrade imo. The pedal is less stiff, travel a bit more. I feel the braking is more precise and less demanding on my legs muscles aha . I went for the "hybrid" , wich is 1x linear+1x progressive . The brand is called 3rapit :)
As Moza R5 owner..I has to admit, Fanatec finally has the edge now with console and huge upgrade options and now price. Availability will still be 4-6 months tho...
I’m scared to go no genuine stuff cause I read some reviews and people complaining after adding the adapter they have no force feedback and genuine adapter from fanatec costs $260 in Australia
@mr1k666 I never even took my 5nm power supply out of the package. Went straight to the Ali pack and right out of the box it said 8nm in the app. I haven't heard anyone complain, but we have 120v in the US, though I wouldn't think that would really matter in this case. It can't hurt to try it, 50 bucks is way cheaper than Fanatecs egotistical price. I love my CSL DD, I use the thing damn near daily.
The Moza R5 is so close for upgrading. If you want to upgrade for R9, you have to buy complate new product such as pedals. The Moza R5's SRP Lite pedals doesn't work with R9, R16 or any other devices besides R5. Also you can't make SRP pedals loadcell like CSL pedals. Also you can just buy boost kit for improvement. But I heard people complaining about CSL DD's QR. It is very hard choice if you ask me :D
And now Cammus trying a cheap entry option too, though admitedly I'm still a bit sus about them as a company. It's pretty wild how far it's come since I picked up my OSW Simucube nearly 6 years ago.
Hi everyone,i am thinking to buy a direct drive wheel system. 1.Moza r5 bundle with sr-p lite break kit and f1 wheel mod. 2.Fanatec CSL DD (5nm) with mclaren gt3 v2 ,quick release adapter. What do you prefer? I heard that the r5 has some heating issues and in f1 game when you are cornering it loses some force feedback details. I am so much confused what to buy actually Drop your suggestions Thank you!
The Fanatec Bundle look like it's only PC Compatible too! You need a Fanatec Xbox compatible wheel to make it works with Xbox. Why pay 30$ for a table clamp, when you can get a cheap wheel stand for +/- 100$! Moza + Quick release Fanatec + torque upgrade Fanatec + Load Cell upgrade Fanatec + more upgrade all around available
Why would you play console and you have a pc with pc you have way better graphics and much higher refresh rates for smoother play I went from console to pc and haven’t looked back that’s just my opinion
I had a G29 and i hated the force feedback. At 100% it was too heavy for my taste and my whole desk was shaking like an earthquake. I have no space for a rig, I mainly want some smooth force feedback that is not stiffer than in my actual car in real life while my desk remains quiet. Is that something I can achieve with the P1 Bundle? Or is it already too strong for desk racers? For me, Moza is too expensive since they ship it from overseas and VAT is excluded at a price of 580€. Fanatec sells it including VAT for 550€, with the desk clamp 580€ but again, VAT included. And btw, those prices are still insane! Sim-racing is a game for me, spending that much money for a peripheral is insane! I found the G29 already too expensive, but those DD are twice the price! I understand the advanced engineering behind it, but it's still way off the gaming mass market.
Thanks Mike. I have a G920 with a TrueBrake mod on the brake pedal. Pretty happy with the pedals at the moment, but a new wheel would be nice. Interesting seeing these 2.
Moza's shipping costs so much that I could get the Fanatec bundle with the load cell kit for roughly the same price as the Moza bundle with their brake kit. I would have to wait like a month and a half for it to actually ship though. The r5 bundle is sold at some microcenter locations without that ridiculous shipping price but I don't have any near me.
I'd personally choose the csl dd because I could buy the boost kit to have 8nm and the good quick release (to use with the p1 wheel) some time after I get the base stuff and still pay less than buying a moza setup like an R9, pedals and all the stuff. why am I talking about this I don't have a salary
Moza will work with consoles. Just need to get the Brooks Res1ution2 converter and it will work just fine. I would recommend the brake pedal booster kit from moza. Makes a big difference.
That Fanatec *BASE* is XBOX compatible but the P1 wheel included in the bundle is a PC and PlayStation compatible wheel. Which would limit the bundle to just PC unless you purchased a separate XBOX compatible steering wheel. Fanatec needs to specify that on the bundle before new sim racers end up pissed that it won't work on their XBOX unless they spend another $200 on the WRC wheel. Like Fanatec needs to make a bundle for an additional $80 to include the WRC wheel so it will be XBOX compatible. Or add an additional $100 to get the Grand Turismo CSL DD w/ 5nm. Or simply bring back a XBOX compatible rubber P1 wheel like the original version was. 🤦♂️
Great vid Mike . Which one would I choose hmm moza is grabbing my eyes at the mo, but when u mentioned not console compatible I found that hard to believe so I rewind the vid just to listen to you again . As for fanatec it's true they never have any stock in so gave up with them . Perhaps a little nudge from a you tuber like yourself to say to them get stock to sell in shop... But once again nice video
Fanatec CSL DD bundle is cheaper, has a bigger wheel and easly upgrades to 8nm with a 24v PSU (aftermarket is alot cheaper), the CSL pedals come with a stiffer spring and foam dampener (The Moza, i believe comes with the same stifness on both pedals). With Shipping + Table Mount the fanatec is still 30€ cheaper. The Moza R5 bundle to fit my taste would need a wheel upgrade (bigger wheel) + Brake Upgrade kit for stiffer break pedal making the whole bundle alot more expensive. btw, shipping for Fanatec is crazy expensive at 47€ for the bundle but like i said, still cheaper than Moza R5
That is why competition between companies when it comes to product is very vital. It is good for 2 reasons. They will compete for who has the best design and technology. And once they are on par on design and tech. The will end up competing on the "pricing". Meaning they will continue releasing good products at cheaper price points. Had no one tried to make their own Direct Drive bundles and pricing them like so. Fanatec would remain the king and will slap their own price tag and no one would bat an eye since there is no competitor.
@@snippidippi I’m not sure id spend $650 to get good stuff when I could spend $1000 and get amazing stuff like a proper wheel, proper pedals, etc, but to each their own. I’ve found the pedals and wheel itself to be more important than how hard it torques, if you drive with relaxed hands 5 is plenty.
150 for boost kit. 439 for moza r9 and 469 for a compatible wheel. sure, 150 for a power block seems expensive. but in comparison to the upgrade path of moza from an r5, it is very inexpensive and the reason id go with fanatec as well.
considering how easy it is to make your own settings and dial them to your liking, I don't think community settings are a reason to pick one over the other
I currently have a Logitech G923. It works well enough, but I can’t stand the knocking/rattling noise it makes. Apparently this is ‘normal’ but I hate that. I’ll likely upgrade to the Fanatec DD when I can.
I've seen some people saying the Fanatec is better because you can boost the force with a kit, while you can't with the Moza. How important is that? I'm just starting out so I want to make a good purchase that I won't feel like I have to upgrade for a while.
it is worth saying you can mod the csl dd wheel for 8nm for about $30 with an amazon 200W 24V power supply and a molex mini-fit junior male connector. as long as you have the skills to solder. and you might need some ring terminal connectors
Exciting times for good deals on DD bundles! Mike, I play on both Xbox Series X and PS5 currently with a Drivehub (Thrustmaster TMX). What exact hardware would I need to buy from Fanatec to make one of these bundles work with both consoles? The Moza stuff looks awesome, but I can't use one now with my current setup. Always appreciate your content and your honesty. God bless and race on 👍😎🏁
You'd need to get the Gran Turismo DD base and a Xbox wheel which will allow you to switch between the consoles. The security chip for Playstation is in the base, while the Xbox compatibility is in the wheel rim due to Sony/Microsoft policies.
A note on pricing in the UK. The Fanatec bundle is £499.95 + shipping (cost?) + customs and duty. The Moza bundle can be purchased from a UK store for £529 including VAT plus free shipping so value for money in the UK has to be the Moza bundle
Just check the price in Australia for the CSL $AUS799, that's a good deal, and a better second hand market for extra's. The wheel rim just looks more realistic on the CSL, but not a fan of the LCD at the top of the wheel. Negative, can't use 3rd wheels on the CSL without a lot of work. But a Fanatec DD bundle for $800, if only I had a job.
Oh man MIKE .. the DD wheel wars have begun? I got the CSL DD 8nm and a rim a few months back but have not finished my compact motion sim yet (that's where it's going to be mounted).. And now I guess I should have waited a bit.. oh well.. Having a great time anyway on the old motion sim till the new on is ready to go.. DMAX channel
@@SimRacing604 Thanks Mike.. It's busy on Saturday.. cause I have league race and I'm at work during the week away from the rig (s).. but Going to get that DD hooked up soon.. It should be way better than the elite.. I got the Porsche wheel and Endurance module.. I'll have to learn how to paddle shift.. hahah Thank you for replying my friend! Dave
Someone has feedback which is better between Moza and Fanatec load cell pedals (i mean Moza SR-P vs Fanatec CSL Pedals witch load cell brake of both). Which one feel more realistic? Thanks a lot!
Yeah, this comes up in every Moza related video I make. Unfortunately I can’t comment on taxes, shipping and duties for all locations, but it’s good information
@@SimRacing604 I can assure you this isn't the case in the U.S., as you can purchase Moza from actual retail stores or a website like 6 Sigma and not deal with a significant tax markup. Big edge that Moza has over Fanatec as well, their willingness to authorize retailers around the world to carry their product. You can buy Moza at stores like Micro Center and even score big on an open box sale that can knock almost 100 bucks off the total price!
I think its a shame that most reviews of simracing gear are from an american point of view. Here in Europe, these two bundles are in completely different prices. The Fanatec bundle is 499€ INCLUDING VAT. Moza bundle is 579€ EXCLUDING VAT. Considering that in Europe the VAT is anywhere from 17 to 24%, that makes the Bundle a 700€ product. So 500€ vs 700€. For the same price of the R5 bundle you can buy the fanatec bundle with a load cell addon and the 8nm boost pack.
@@SimRacing604 I’m guessing a substantial part of your audience is from outside the US. You should at least do a disclaimer that your price and value comparisons are from an american POV and are not applicable to other markets. Because not doing so is going to mislead a lot of people around the world that view your videos. Just my opinion
I would seriously like to get some advice from the brothers and sisters here in the community. I am looking to get into sim racing. Should I start with the G923 or go straight for a Direct Drive wheel like the Moza R5? The price difference is about $120 USD in my country, Malaysia. I am currently playing racing games with a keyboard. 😅
@@SimRacing604 Thanks for the reply. I think I'll go for the Moza R5. We don't have an official Fanatec here. Those reseller, are selling the CSL DD bundle for $850, while I can get the R5 bundle for around $400. 😅
i think out of the box, overall design aesthetic r5 is much better looking. Something about the fanatec gives off a toy look. maybe its the plastic pedal faces
Moza also offers a load cell update for the brake pedal for better braking for $29 USD. The pedal faces are adjustable and you can add a clutch pedal if you like. The Pit House software is fantastic.
@@ab8jeh Thanks for the correction. I've heard great things about it. I have the R9 and the SR-P pedals and have heard the SRP-Lite kit may improve the SR-P throttle pedal but as mentioned in the video, the information on that isn't exactly clear and widespread yet.
@@malkmusRules nice. It's quite stiff though the SRP-lite brake kit (I have one) so not sure about fixing it to the throttle, but the SRP standard pedals have their own spring adapter (I think for $12) which makes a massive improvement. Maybe you have this already though.
@@mr1k666 glad to see it at the same price instead of the company ripping people off hope you have fun with your wheel i just started play ats after i orderd the clutch
@@snippidippi just found that out, honestly leaning towards the fanatec option compared to moza because i can get a loadcell upgrade, and the 8nm upgrade with the cheaper formula rims etc
@@ollie_z I just ordered fanatec bundle with a table mount for $723 Australian dollars which is way cheaper than moza plus I can buy boost kit and get 8nm instead of buying a new base if I went with moza bundle
bro cause of u I dissuade to go with fanatec now I'm regretting it so bad it been like 3 month no order no answer nothing I'm really disappointed on fanatec
ya i hear you, but logitech ecosystem is so plug and play... no messing with things, wishing you had more nm in the future, etc. compared to the real "pro" stuff, logitech pro is definitely marketed toward the budget world. the biggest tell here is the playseat collab@@SimRacing604
you get a higher quality product with the fanatec, and i dont say that lightly, ive had a DD1 and i was not a fan, do not own a fanatec now or a moza, i have owned a simucube for the last 2 years plus. But im pretty confident in saying the csl dd is a higher quality product, 16bit encoder vs 15bit encoder on the R5... thats double the resolution for fanatec. The R5 also uses a slip ring design which is a wearable part, moza rates it as capable of 5 million rotations, sounds a lot but compare that to an Asetek wheelbase (far more expensive i know) which uses a slip ring rated to 200 million rotations, or 40x longer lasting and well yeh... moza went hella cheap in order to get the price hella cheap. No upgrade path for moza R5 and lets be honest 5.5nm is barely enough especially if you move away from that tiny light wheel. Im pretty sure the moza is smoother than the fanatec though and i hold smoothness in high regard and the QR is objectively better for sure so there are reasons to choose moza, but for me its painfully obvious the moza R5 is not a scaled down big time DD, its a watered down low quality option.