Accounts of the contest record it was a disaster for Steibelt; Beethoven reportedly carried the day by improvising at length on a theme taken from the cello part of a new Steibelt piece-placed upside down on the music rack.
Franz Liszt : Grand teacher Beethoven. I have completely fulfilled your dream of making the piano like a grand symphony with my transcription for piano of your 9th symphony.
Someone once challenged J.S. Bach to a keyboard contest (Louis Marchand - the greatest French virtuoso of his day), but when Marchand secretly listened to Bach practicing, he decided to leave town in a hurry. He never showed up for the competition.
he wasn't really moody until his later years, because of his health. He was actually a very humorous, funny guy who everyone instantly liked when he was younger, sadly this is seldom touched upon, even in "documentaries".
not any more awesome than having seen Paco de Lucia play for example. (I don't mean his dabbling into jazz, but his original work) Paco was a Beethoven of the guitar. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rxYGt1fqZIo.html
The contest between Beethoven and Steibelt As the challenger, Steibelt was to play first. He walked to the piano, tossing a piece of his own music on the side, and played. Steibelt was renowned for conjuring up a "storm" on the piano, and this he did to great effect, the "thunder" growling in the bass. He rose to great applause, and all eyes turned to Beethoven, who took a deep breath, slowly exhaled, and reluctantly - to the collective relief of everyone present - trudged to the piano. ----------------------------- Beethoven's turn to play When he got there he picked up the piece of music Steibelt had tossed on the side, looked at it, showed it the audience ..... and turned it upside down! He sat at the piano and played the four notes in the opening bar of Steibelt's music. He began to vary them, embellish them ..... improvise on them. He played on, imitated a Steibelt "storm", unpicked Steibelt's playing and put it together again, parodied it and mocked it. Steibelt makes a dramatic exit… Steibelt, realising he was not only being comprehensively outplayed but humiliated, strode out of the room. Prince Lobkowitz hurried after him, returning a few moments later to say Steibelt had said he would never again set foot in Vienna as long as Beethoven lived there. Beethoven lived in Vienna for the rest of his life, and Steibelt kept his promise - he never returned. Beethoven was never again asked to take on any piano virtuoso - his position as Vienna's supreme piano virtuoso was established. And those four notes - the first bar of Steibelt's music? They became, in time, the impetus that drives the Eroica Symphony.
In reality, they did not play tunes from the Magic Flute but rather improvised. And it was Steibelt who showed off with his virtuoso style, whereas Beethoven showed the audience how harmonically monotonous his improvisations were by coming up with more harmonically complex stuff with the same level of virtuosity. Edit: for those who don't know, coming up with new harmonic shit on the fly is much harder than just adding bunch of arpeggios and scales here and there, and a faster alberti bass.
They exist. In the 40's and 50's, they were called "Cutting Contests" and were primarily the domain of jazz musicians. You can still find these today, but you probably won't find them in the polite society as seen in this video.
Almost none of this is really accurate. Steibelts performance is super dumbed down to demonstrate the difference in quality to make the video make sense, but really he was quite an excellent pianist and improvisor. Beethoven, however, was able to - on a whim - flip Steibelts piece upside down, play the first bar upside down (that shouldnt work at all) and then parody steibelts style while using the inverse of his music in such a skillful and superior fashion that steibelt literally walked out of the city and never came back. And again this was just done for the sake of the video, but it lasted much longer than this.
@@manunited1235 He went based on what he heard by ear. He didn't need to look at the music. He played it in the style of his sonatas which he changes a lot of keys (including minor) and develops the theme. Also his piano gymnastics were probably exhaustively varied.
@@santiago.cervantes9857 I am not quite sure Liszt's piano works can really compare with those of Beethoven. That said, Liszt is said to be an extraordinary pianist, possibly the greatest ever.
Had Steibelt acknowledged and congratulated Beethoven's magnificent skill and talent, he most likely would have had a friend for life in Beethoven. Not to mention, an amazing piano teacher more than happy to help him improve. It's amazing how ego can be such a double-edged sword.
Beside personal or petty competitions. Ludwig Van Beethoven was a genius in the most pure meaning of the word, the like of which we may see born once every millennia. My utmost respects for the great Maestro Ludwig Van Beethoven and all his timeless, divine music and compositions. The power of his music do grab the soul of every listener - like few others - to this day. His heritage will go on forever, because of the transformative power of most of his works...
It's a bit mean to Steibelt to represent him this badly.. I mean I could improvise that variation he did here. I'm sure in reality he gave Beethoven a much sterner contest.
James Tucker Actually, those who witnessed the event indicated that Beethoven indeed "moped up the floor" with Steibelt. Here is the how it has been recorded. I hope this helps. A native of Berlin, Daniel Steibelt was one of Europe's most renowned piano virtuosos. He was a typical Prussian - formal, correct, proper. In 1800 he came to Vienna, no doubt with the aim of advancing his musical reputation. It was quickly agreed among the city's musical patrons that Steibelt should compete against Beethoven in an improvisation contest. These improvisation contests were a popular form of entertainment among Vienna's aristocracy. One nobleman would support one virtuoso pianist, another would support the other. In the salon of one of the noblemen, the two pianists would compete with each other, each setting the other a tune to improvise on. The playing would go back and forth, increasing in intensity, until a winner was declared. In his early years in Vienna, Beethoven was made to take on the city's best talent and he quickly saw them off.It was agreed that Prince Lobkowitz would sponsor Steibelt and Prince Lichnowsky sponsor Beethoven, the improvisation contest to take place in Lobkowitz's palace. As the challenger, Steibelt was to play first. He walked to the piano, tossing a piece of his own music on the side, and played. Steibelt was renowned for conjuring up a "storm" on the piano, and this he did to great effect, the "thunder" growling in the bass. He rose to great applause, and all eyes turned to Beethoven, who took a deep breath, slowly exhaled, and reluctantly - to the collective relief of everyone present - trudged to the piano.When he got there he picked up the piece of music Steibelt had tossed on the side, looked at it, showed it the audience ..... and turned it upside down! He sat at the piano and played the four notes in the opening bar of Steibelt's music. He began to vary them, embellish them ..... improvise on them. He played on, imitated a Steibelt "storm", unpicked Steibelt's playing and put it together again, parodied it and mocked it. Steibelt, realising he was not only being comprehensively outplayed but humiliated, strode out of the room. Prince Lobkowitz hurried after him, returning a few moments later to say Steibelt had said he would never again set foot in Vienna as long as Beethoven lived there. Beethoven lived in Vienna for the rest of his life, and Steibelt kept his promise - he never returned.Beethoven was never again asked to take on any piano virtuoso - his position as Vienna's supreme piano virtuoso was established. And those four notes - the first bar of Steibelt's music? They became, in time, the impetus that drives the Eroica Symphony.
What is your source for that? I'm incredibly interested if they are seriously saying the incident helped in the formation of the first theme of the Eroica symphony.. Anyway, what I was saying, was that the video was ridiculous, and your source backs up that Steibelt would of given him a much better contest than the pathetic variation of Mozarts theme used in this video. There is no way anyone would think of Steibelt as a virtuoso in the first place if that was all he could do..
Well, there are two things in +IMSColoradoSpring's quote that makes me find the stark difference a bit believable -- One is the fact that it says that Steibelt was apparently a sort of "formal, correct, proper" fellow, and the other is that it says that these sorts of contests would escalate over multiple back-and-forth rounds. Given that, it sounds as if it was customary to start small and build up to one's 'A' game. If Steibelt was indeed the sort of "proper" character he's made out to be, then it would have been within bounds for him to adhere to that sort of decorum and not bust out of the gates with his very best. It also fits with the style of the variations he played in the video in that much of it (save maybe the ending) was textbook Mozart, which means he was maintaining the spirit of the original composer's style rather than turning it into a Steibelt work. This is also how a lot of pianists do it these days -- i.e. trying to keep the intentions of the original composer intact... Beethoven, otoh, was a well-documented asshat who delighted in humiliating adversaries, so him playing levels apart from Steibelt in Round 1 with a style that is distinctly Beethoven fits his character. This much is echoed in the quote as well. That said, I do agree that whatever Steibelt laid down in his first round would have been much more virtuosic and inventive than what was shown even if it was otherwise a warm-up round for him. Beethoven being Beethoven was rather determined to just crush him in the first blow, and so the gap would still show. Chances are that Steibelt's own reaction to that wouldn't just be a sense of discouragement that he couldn't win, but also anger at Beethoven's ostensibly poor sportsmanship. I suspect that to get to the piece that's actually played in the video, the producers must have combined a few other details from Beethoven's life. There's the tale of Mozart's meeting with a then teenage Beethoven, in which Mozart declared after hearing him improvise on top of a few of his own pieces declared that Beethoven would be someone to watch out for (a tale which might well be apocryphal)... The other is the fact that Beethoven did actually compose a series of variations and cadenzas on Mozart's pieces over the years -- including Ein Mädchen oder Weibchen from the Magic Flute. That said, whoever wrote the Beethoven interpretation of Papageno's Aria for this video knew what he was doing. He threw in so many little key characteristics that are so well-associated with his style as well as taking advantage of the greater limits of the piano of his day. Whoever it was seems to have understood Beethoven almost as well as Dudley Moore did. On a separate note, it's a little saddening to see some of the responses below in which people interpreted the top post in this thread to mean things not even resembling what is said. It is a bit of a sign of failure of education that people's reading comprehension and capacity to ingest the written word in the context of the referenced video is so criminally poor. I weep for the future of humanity.
Mozar dismissed Beethovan when he met with him.....Until Ludvig begged to show him how he improvised...The Mozart was impressed, ans said "The world will hear of this young man"
@@leostawicki7283 "Watch out for that boy. One day he will give the world something to talk about" Pretty wholesome honestly, especially since when they met Mozart was ill and only 5 years away from his death.
@@chri2453 Mozart heard the 16 year old Beethoven played once and whispered behind to others by saying that this young person will make a big noise in the world some day.
You know the bit I really like about this is how right around 3:40 the music starts to take on a bit of a change. Before it was an incredibly impressive improvisation, but it's nothing too out there for the classical period, nothing that you'd be surprised to hear in a piece by Mozart for example. As Beethoven really gets into it however, you can hear something starting to happen. The chords are coming at you so fast and the changes in dynamics so daring, the music is actually starting to take on just a touch of a violent, discordant quality. The guests go from cheering the virtuoso Beethoven to being a bit freaked out, not quite sure what to make of these fierce, volatile new sounds coming out of the piano. The little old pianoforte itself sounds like it's about to collapse under the force of what it's being made to produce. What I really love about this is it shows how the young Beethoven is already starting to discover the big, bold romantic sound that will define his middle and late work. Even better, it shows how he is arriving at that sound by stretching the logic of the classical tradition to its absolute limit, finding the discord inside those perfect classical harmonies.
I didn't go through all 1800 comments, but it seems like I'm the only one here who's impressed by the pianist who acted as Beethoven. He definitely deserves some recognition!
Back is actually ranked above B. in the composing area. Lots of critics rank Bach #1 above anyone else.Bach was born about 50 Km. from Handel and only a year apart.
@@czeynerpianistproducercomp7155 well, it's not easy to compose something difficult to play. but you can't seriosuly compare cernys musical value with beethoven...
Mozart tested Beethoven for three days. He was not impressed with Beethoven the first two days. The third day He tested Beethoven for improvisation and was very impressed and asked him to come back when he was older.
As far as I have read, in that time, Hummel was Europe's greatest piano virtuso, and Beethoven was the THE improviser. His improvising skills were unmatched.
It's lovely, but I do think it all went much different. There were two meetings. During the first, at Count Fries', B. became annoyed that Steibelts new and elegant Quintet found more acclaim than B's Trio . After the performance of the Quintet, S. improvised on a theme from his own work. In this he used fierce tremolos like thunderstorms, which were something like a novelty, only possible on the newest pianos. They made the ladies faint. One week later, at Fries again, S. unexpectedly improvised on a theme from B's Trio of last week. It was probably well-meant, but it left B. angry and humiliated. Then it was B.'s turn. He was reluctant to enter the contest, but he came to the piano after several requests. While walking to the piano, in an impulse he seized the cello part of another Steibelt Quintet that had just been performed. (This can actually been seen in the clip, but nothing was done with it.) He put it upside down in front of him on the piano, played a part of the newly acquired monstruous melody (because the notes were upside down!), and started to improvise on it. This must have been a terrible offence in the face of Steibelt, and an example of bad taste, only "neutralized" by B's brilliant performance. I was not there, but I am quite sure that B. ridiculized S. even further by imitating his tremolos in a grotesque way. That same night Steibelt left Vienna, never to set a foot again in that beautiful city.
As I remember it, not a first-hand mind you, Steibelt also specified that he was never again to be invited to any future such event that Beethoven was also scheduled to attend.
It is so sad that Beethoven cannot hear what he wrote in his later years.His last three piano sonatas op 109 110 and 111 can only sing inside his heart.
Steibelt was a considerable virtuoso and a gifted composer - but he wasn't Beethoven. The story of the contest has, unfortunately, so tarnished his reputation that he is now regarded as a joke; he was certainly no such thing. I cannot imagine that someone renowned for his thunderous piano technique would have come up with the twee variation in this film. Beethoven won out against much stiffer competition than that!
Geoff, I know. Films always do that. Instead of making it realistic, they make the antagonist way worse than he needs to be. Sure, Beethoven would beat him, but why make him look like a chump?
There's no doubt Beethoven was the greatest musician to ever live. Redefined music more than any musician in history. Greatest improve and variation skills. Greatest symphony writer. Greatest solo piano composer. Greatest piano concerto composer. Greatest string quartet composter. To name a few of his achievements.
@Mar. L why the f would I put in not piano but still if I just searched that on the internet and why the f would I say I don't agree on Mozart if I actually didn't have other composers in my mind. And I actually just typed that on the internet, surprise, these are not the first results (with the exception of lwb ofc)🤨🤨. Uhmmm these guys are nearly all romantic composers so they naturally have less pieces, cuz they actually care about their pieces being individually really different on all aspects to any other piece they have written, unlike Mozart. If I had thought of numbers I wouldn't have written romantic composers🥰 Other than that if you really want to hear an explanation here it is: Saint Saens, best concerto orchestration in all concerto writing in the period by far. Beethoven's 4th might be easily argued to be the best concerto of all time, 3 and 5 are also just incredible (five might look a bit like too exaggerated at times but the incredible parts like the octave passage make up for it). Prokofiev's second concerto is one of the most unique pieces of all time, that feeling isnt even captured in any other Prok pieces, other than that best PC cadenza ever. The 3rd is also amazing With Rach, enough has already been said about the 2nd and 3rd concertos, they are just in general incredibly well written with how the orchestra and piano interact, it just shows how more of a piano composer can write overall incredible concertos if they are decent with orchestra (look at Liszt or Chopin for counter examples lmao) Hummel's second concerto is basically one of the best pieces in the concerto repertoire.
... and Beethoven's operas are world famous, unlike that Mozart guy. It's like some people aren't clever enough to cope with having two or more great composers.
@@Maximilian0011 What? Your comment makes no sense Bubba. He just said he likes the gorgeous actress who plays the role of a Beethoven fan in this documentary.
They say the Moonlight Sonata's 3rd movement is supposed to give you a rough idea of Beethoven's improvisation skills. Even if it was only 50% true, it would still be absolutely insane.
''So when are you going to start!?'', i love that. I remember watching this a few years ago, really enjoyed it, i don't know how that guy isn't more well known, he's very talented and he has the look.
What you are, you are by accident of birth; what I am, I am by myself. There are and will be a thousand princes; there is only one Beethoven. L.W. Beethoven.
Beethoven was notorious during his early years for being a monster of the piano. He's literally an all-time elite improviser (just like Mozart, Liszt, etc.) and destroyed his opponents that they literally lost the motivation to play, for weeks!!!
