Years ago I got new tyres and the balance was out. Took in back to tyre shop and they rebalance them, still crap. Took to a old bush mechanic and he used a bubble balancer. It was spot on. 👌
The trouble is on those new electronic balancers is that when they run the machine and then put the weights on, they don't re-run the machine for a check. That check will show that fine-tuning would be necessary a significant part of the time.
A long time ago 1964, I went to a bubble balance school. Almost the same as you demonstrate but they used 4 weights where you use two. Put two weights together at left and two on right like you have . Center the bubble. Mark with chalk. Take wheel off of balancer. Take two of the weights, L and R and pound them on the back. Put tire back on balancer and position the two weights ( almost same spot ) and mark . Pound on the weights and your done. I know, clear as mud !
I worked tire for almost 20 years , and I used a bubble balancer for most of that time . I would put them up against any balancer ! We always split weights on front and back . We had better results for people that ran at high speed on the bubble than on the modern spin balancers .!! Old School and proud of it . I didn't like stick on weights because of falling off , calipers taking them off and having no other place to put them ! 😒 great video!
I worked at Sears Auto when I was a teen back in the 70s. They trained me on bubble first then spin. I think the only reason guys like spin is the time factor: It's faster (or can be) and heftier/less delicate. But the spin would go down from time to time and the bubble never failed...
I-m so happy to see this. So sick and tired of "professional tire shops" that couldn't balance a tire if their life depended on it. It's frustrating when I consider how much money and time I've wasted at tire shops.
My bubble balancer ‘paid for itself’ in the first four tires I changed. The manual tire machine I got for $40 “open box” at HF paid for itself in doing just a few trailer tires.
I have the China version of that machine from Princess Auto and it works perfectly. I lubed all of the moving parts and put some grease on the center where the wheel slides down to make sure it can center properly. I can get my wheels better than the shop can get them. I like the Y method, I came on it by trial and error. Someone I do is an old school mechanics trick to not set the beads right away, put the wheel on the balancer right after you mount the tire and check how it sits, so you can simply spin the tire around on the wheel to balance it before you add any weight. You may not need any weights in many cases.
I told the shop I go to to do something similar and they said usually the rims aren’t out of balance at all, I knew they were wrong but figured maybe not enough to matter
@@aterack833 it's not the wheel that's out it's the tire. Most tires have dots on them to indicate where the valve should be to minimize the amount of weight needed to balance them. If the tires are older the dots aren't there. I have seen tires that the shop didn't balance correctly and they had tons of weights and the tires were still out, when all they had to do was mark the tire and rotate it on the wheel to make it work.
@@fuglbird if you understand what needs to happen, you can bubble balance close enough to solve a shake at most any normal highway speed.... which is what the customer wants. Of course, you also need to be sharp enough to realize that some so-called balance problems are actually a bad tire. I have spotted that with a $5k unit and also with a $200 bubble unit.
It's also called the ABC method, the old babco bubble balancers recommend it in the instructions. I think its the best way, instead of 2 opposing heavy spots the weight is triangulated, so every 1/3 of the tire is balanced with each other. The other benefit of the bubble balancer is you can pre balance the tire and rim before filling with air, put the tires heavy spot directly across from the rims heavy spot, which reduces the weight needed to balance after filling the tire with air.
@@Reloadeez Or you could have a shop with a road force balancer mount and balance your tires in a tenth the time it takes on a bubble balancer. For 10 dollars a wheel. Bubble balancing is out of date for a reason
@@contraband1543 I don't know where you get 10 dollar mounting and balancing per tire but let me know. In NYC it cost 40 a tire, I have a friend at Firestone that was able to get me 2 tires done for 45.
Great video! Never heard of the Y method but it makes perfect sense. I also had trouble with the HF balancer. I ended up balancing the balancer with tire weights. Now I get repeatable results.
Would you recommend staying away from the Harbor Freight balancer? I was considering getting one they have as I'm trying to do as much repairs myself without having to pay for services like this
I used to work at Western Auto 50 years ago in high school. We used the exact same method with good results. The only thing different was we always used four weights .And would put a yellow crayon mark on the top of the tire when putting on the back weights. Then use the the front two weights to finalize the balance.
@@paulsmith9341 'Sears sold most of the company to Advance Auto Parts in 1998, and by 2003, the resulting merger had led to the end of the Western Auto brand and its product' At least here in the southeast a lot of older Advance Auto Parts locations are were the Western Autos used to be.
Thank you buddy, for this. i just ordered a balancer, on Ebay. Im a 69yr old guy, and on soc sec, and now changing my own tires with Hrbor Frt tire changer, to save bucks.
I have used this method on my 65 MGB because it has wire wheels, and mounting them on modern balancing machines usually ends with the balance being way out. This is because of the surfaces that the wheel uses to center it on the machine. After a few bad experiences, I picked up a bubble balancer at a flea market. Since then when I balance the wheels, it works every time.
I have a sunbeam alpine with wires on it and I just got a bubble balancer to do this..thanks for your comment,,give me confidence this is a good way to go.. I was doing mine in a modified motorcycle truing stand.. Cheers
I've watched a lot of people bubble balance tires all my life including my dad but I've never seen or heard of this method I'll try it the next time I balance my tires thank you for sharing this just go's to show you are never to old to learn something new
Mechanics my son's age find it hard to believe there was a time that tire Machines didn't exist. I can remember when the bubble was the way it was done. It's great having a second set of paws around the shop.
Nice video. Thanks a LOT. This is someone else's comment I pulled off an old forum a while ago for my Micro Precision Wheel Balancer. Thought it might help. "I too had, and still have great results with "old tech" bubble balancing. I do it a little different than a lot of people do tho. I put the wheel/tire on the balancer and find out the balance point and weight it takes to center the bubble, then put a chalk mark there. I take the amount of weight needed and divide it by four. Then I take 4 weights of equal weight, that total about a half ounce more than needed, lay them on the tire/rim next to the chalk mark, 2 on each side of the mark, and start moving the pairs away from the mark 2 to the left and 2 to the right, equal distant, until the bubble centers. Put a chalk mark by each pair. Take the tire/wheel off the balancer and hammer 1 of each pair on the backside of the wheel opposite their chalk marks. Then put the tire/wheel back on the balancer, take the remaining 2 and start at the original mark and start sliding them out left and right until I have balance again, mark them, take it off again, install the 2 weights, check again, and done. If you do it right, you can put the unit on a spin balancer and be right on. Before you try to balance a tire/wheel assembly you want to make sure you have a wheel that is true (not bent) and a tire thats tread is true. I have only run into a problem twice with this method. The first time about drove me nuts. Balance take out and drive, works great. Customer complained about out of balance. checked and it was right on, took customer with me, he is satisfied, comes back, complains about balance problem. I had to do some serious thinking on this one after about 4 times. AHA!, I drove it, and took the customer out and got approval, then went back and put the wire wheel hubcaps with knockoff on them back on. One hubcap was 3/4oz out of balance. Balanced with hubcaps laying in correct position (valvestem) on wheel and solved problem. Second time same thing, 1963 Buick with masive cast piece that looked like turbine veins screwed to hubcap. Factory cap. I too, drag raced and never had a problem with balancing this way. Great piece of equipment you got there."
I have always done this method since the 70's. The balancer I used back in the day had a reservoir under the the top piece that had engine oil in it. The oil would slow down the movement when touching the wheel or tire. This sped things up not waiting for the bubble to stop moving.
I chose 5 videos and watched the difference in presenting the information. Your video was very specific and technically. Triangle method fixed what that guy at the tire shop didn't do. Awesome video
First time I had To buy tyres from an ild tyre seller in the early 90s. I was 17 and when I drove out? No vibration at all. His Machine looked like it had a bubble level on it. Cheers from Australia
I use this method and also modified the harbor freight balancer with a 1.5 dia steel ball from ebay that goes up inside the part that the tire sits on. You also have to mod the lower part so the ball sets on a flat surface. A guy has posted on youtube how to do the mod. Over time the pointy spike no longer moves freely thus the mod.
Now you're making me wanna take my wheels off my BMW and redo em! I just did em like two weeks ago...just the rears. Got a little vibration at around 80-85mph. Subtle, but I can feel it, when it was never there. Glad I clicked on this! Never saw this method.
This things work. Amazing. I have done the bubble balance. Marked with a pen on the tire by the wheel. Where it needed weight. And sure enough after the spin balance. They came back with weights Where the pen marks were.
I've done the opposite. Where I took a freshly machine balanced wheel and threw it on my bubble balancer and it measures perfect where didn't it before. I should have marked out where I thought the weight should have gone though like you did.
Yes! , I love this. too often people think that it has to be this way or that it was the only method or you need a special device (too expensive for a private person). as I recently got the question from someone for some more info about an impact driver. he saw that every tire shop used this so assumed that it was the device with which you need to mount wheels. I said there's only one reason they use it: speed! (to be able to do more customers in the same time). in fact, you almost certainly stretch the bolts further than allowed and I dare say that 95% of all bolts have been abused by this way of working. ok, not that every day the wheels of cars fly off due to broken or loose bolts (no more stretch = no more clamping force when something comes loose a little or settles). When you do it by hand you also feel what you are doing. you make sure the wheel comes into place by shaking the tire a bit while you tighten a bolt lightly etc ... (I do use a cordless drill to turn the bolts in and out but the first tightening only happens by hand and by feel, because almost all bolts have been abused, I dare to do the final tightening by hand (and feet) by feel, only when I am 100% sure that the bolts are new or not abused I use a torque wrench. So this is also a completely different story and answer than that person expected. you have to look at everything in its context and sometimes go back to basics. I need an electronic balencer way too little and it costs way too much. but what that expensive machine can do, we can also do, and even just as quickly and easily. just back to basics. just like balancing an old scale. no you don't need an electronic balancer or a driver because every tire shop uses this (just for speed, insurance etc etc). you can do it at home, cheaper, just as quickly and with a better result. I just now discovered this bubble balencer through this video and it was a eureka moment. sometimes it's that one person who is right and hundreds claim not because they're a bit brainwashed because they've always seen it in a different way. but if you think about it for a second it makes perfect sense. I love to discover such things, and mostly they are old skool methods. thanks for sharing, use that brain and dare to look at things from a different point of view. thanks sictyfiveford ! greetings David
Great video. I have the cheapo Harbour freight. My process is completely clean and polish the contact points, best I can. One tiny spec of light machine oil . Then calibrate the head alone. Bubble has to be perfect in the center of circle, as my eye can tell. And as I put the wheel on I give it just a tiny twist. When it rests I go by perfectly putting the bubble in the dead middle as close as possible anyway. Alway been good.
Nice job on the video. I put Tire Beads in my Motorcycle Tires... Dyna Beads. They work amazing. Bike was never so smooth.... They're hard to get into a tire on a car or truck, with tpms sensors..... I did get them in my truck though, and they worked amazing on that too....
i have had my static wheel balancer for many years and yet i had never heard of this method, great video, thank you for this information, i will be following your instructions into the future.
Excellent video and made me think about the hows and whys. I drive an old landrover so balancing wheels doesn’t really matter at sub 55 speeds. However I can see that if it’s this easy to do, it might be worth doing. A 75% balanced wheel would be more than good enough.
This Y method thing- I like it and it makes total sense. There have been a few times where I've had to 'split the difference'. Not realizing all I had to do was widen the placement. Thanks for doing this vid.
Man you do everything!!!!. I wanted to add something. I have a video coming out tomorrow that shows the piece of wood at the top of my garage door to stop Mr. Skum and Mr. Bag from using a coat hanger to open the door from the outside and forgot to mention I got the idea from you. Thanks again.
Why have I not watched this video sooner! Just mounted and "balanced" some new snow tires onto a 2nd set of wheels for my car. Gonna make sure to do this when I replace the all-season tires on my daily wheels.
65.. Thanks so much this I got one of those bubble balance rigs and gave up after I wasted a whole Sunday afternoon..Tires on and off the car 3 times.....PITA....Will give this a try.
Sometimes the Chinese balancers are so poorly made that you can't get anything correct on them. However if you have huge dynamic imbalance and you put the weights on just one side you just made the problem way worse. Centering the weights actually cuts the dynamic balance in half.
My first automotive type job was for Jefferson's department store down in homestead Florida. I was the shop's tire buster. By far the tires were balanced using this old fashioned bubble balancer which did the work perfectly fine. But if you wanted to spend just a little bit more money we could do what we called speed balancing. Those tires were balanced on the car. You jacked the corner of the car up and slide this motorized sled underneath the wheel and put its roller up against the tire. Then you take the hubcap off and put on this balancing head which would clamp onto the inside edge of the rim. It had four small slip rings that you would hold with your fingers to make the adjustments. You turn on the motor on the sled which would spin up the wheel really fast and then you would grip each of these rings in turn to balance the tire. The head had a pointer on it and a window that would tell you how much weight to put where. Two of the rings would adjust the weight higher and lower and the other two rings would adjust where on the rim the weight would go. It was pretty cool. Of course this is way before electronic balancing machines came out. And like you said sticker weights didn't exist yet.
This is a really good video! Someone mentioned bubble balancing and I never heard of it. In this video I went from knowing nothing to being ready to try it.
Great video it's also very important to align the red and yellow dots on the tyre correctly I recently changed all four tyres on my car and for the first time ever none of them needed weights because the dots were aligned correctly
Hey, want to say thanks for the great video. Have similar balancer from Princess Auto and I never thought of doing it that way, but it makes perfect sense to balance things out and stop a side to side wobble. Well done ! The issues I have found with these balancers, is trying to read if the bubble is perfectly on center, too much room for error, and it’s advised to rebalance the wheel top for bottom, but most rims have too much offset to do this.
Dang, I learned two things - just didn't think of little rocks throwing off a tire - never occured to me. Now I will always consider it, as it matters obviously. (Sloppy thinking on my part.) Also, I did the two-weight method, but didnt' consider it a "thing" or even anything 'claimable' - and this video organized the method in my mind so I can execute it much more accurately. Thanks for posting, and GREAT explanation of the importance of putting weights on both sides.
Sold! I always wondered if those bubble ballancers worked well. I'm gonna get one and start using it. I've used the gravity method for motorcycles but haven't had the motivation to try one of these for cars. Thanks!
I had some bent weld wheels and this is the only way I can get them to not shake your hand to death...gonna use this method next time, hopefully they'll be even better
Thanks for the explanation on balancing, and dynamic vs static. Makes me think the whole road-force balancing and 'computerized' (that's an 80s term) balancing sold to the consumer was pretty clever marketing for the past 20-30 years. Just had the a set of 19" tires installed on my wife's car- it cost $150 (was $100 for the longest time), and they did a good job, promptly. But I know the price is undercutting the independent shops charging $250 or more, and the price is just going to keep going up. Changing tires was the only part of car care I never was able to figure out because of the scratching and balancing issues, but it seems like there is enough tools available now to do a 'markless' tire change and perfect balance on your own.
Doing your own tires can save hundreds each time. I solely buy my tires online and have them shipped to my door. This alone saves a decent amount which makes little sense, since they have to ship them. I think the profit margin on tires is huge. I actually didn't balance my tires for years and 90%+ you'd never notice. And those that I did , I could simply break the bead and rotate it on the rim 180 degrees and the problem would disappear. However there's always an odd ball and the bubble balancer takes care of that.
That's obvious once it's pointed out and genius at the same time. I don't have a bubble balancer and probably never will but love finding out about this information and I love the way you present it. And of course Ginger is awesome 😊💚
youtube videos cost me so much money - finding tools I didn't know existed! I spent 15 years as a mech with fancy balancers, road force balancing - never got the detailed explanation that you've give here. I spent 10 years working on motorcycle and we statically balanced (vertically) and that was good to 150 mph (on race bikes). Rocks in tread...yuck, but explains a lot!
I’m gonna see if I can get some 2 inch inner diameter pipe this weekend so I can weld up the ultimate tire changer upgrade on the tire changer. I just picked it up for 49 bucks and $67 for the bubble balancer I’m so excited because I always get a flat on a Sunday and I could never get it put on anywhere to be at work on Monday. Thanks for your help
I had a neighbor, had to keep replacing tie rod ends, one day I put on my bubble balancer, the dynamic was off, I balanced the tire like you did, haven't replaced a tie rod since
I did that technique back in 1967 to 1969, but was shown to mark the tire and put the weights on the back of the rim than recheck it and move the other weights around to tune it. They would take my balance tires to a machine and I blew their minds because they couldn't get the tire balanced any better. The other thing that screws up a balance is when you spin your tire they will move.
Love your dog he's a character, not all but some tires have a mark when new that is supposed to be lined up with the vale stem when mounting the tire and it helps balance the tire, many times requiring no weights at all, I wish more tire shops would use stick on weights on the inside center of the rim, it looks and works better, but most tire shops won't spend the extra time it takes to apply them and a box of those stick on weights is not cheap, I've used one of those balancer's I bought from Mac Tools for years and it works great as long as you keep the spring loaded alignment rods clean and lightly lubed and keep an eye on the pivot pin that the balance assembly sits on, the pivot pin is replaceable if it gets bent or worn down.
Sometimes I can't remember how to do stuff because I'm not doing it everyday. I can watch yer vids and get my mind straight which equals POM (peace of mind) 😑 Thanks
that dog is smarter than some people i have known. he didn't see the block you wanted at first, but still brought you back one. i've sent helpers, some paid and some not, after a tool, told them where to find it, described it in detail and it's still a crapshoot over what they will return with, if anything other than excuses. now if only he had thumbs...
Great vid Moe. I have been eyeballing some of the old school bubble balancers on markrtplace. They seem to be made with more heavy duty materials and more precision. Gonna try it when I find one relatively close to home.
I've been looking for another vintage one for years. Some had other cool features and more way more precise than even the one I have. Coats and even Sears had nice ones. Problem is sometimes they go for big money, for some odd reason.
Thanks for this video! I bought an original Challenger, all of the aftermarket ones are garbage and have quality issues. There is nothing like vintage tooling.
You are one of two guys I've seen who checks the balancer by repositioning the wheel at 180 degrees to check the balancer itself. I will do that from now on. I like the Y method you describe so well. I will be doing that too from now on. I say again, I enjoy your dog parts in the show more than anything. Thanks
Cool video - If I lived in a remote rural area I'd definitely invest in a bubble balancer. For now I purchase a lifetime alignment/balance/tire rotation agreement from the shop where I purchase the tires from & have them do this for me during the annual inspection sticker.
For the past few weeks I have been wondering if it was possible to balance tires at home, without the fancy equipment. If you have been reading my mind, thank you?
Yes, you can static balance wheels at home, but realize that this isn’t as good as today’s dynamic balancers. Static balance only affects the radial direction. With narrow wheels and tires, this is often OK. However, with today’s wider wheels and tires, you can still have axial imbalance even with perfect radial balance and this can only be detected and corrected with a dynamic balancer.
I had one of these and it was awful. Very tedious and many cycles pulling wheels on and off. Buy a real wheel balancer machine, they're not that expensive. I bought a Mayflower one and it does everything I wanted to do with car and truck wheels.
Fetch and flappedyflopflapflapbap and leverage will always be leverage. These used to be the norm for years and I also remember the kind that spun the wheel up and had the balancer clamped to the rim. Ahd the vehicle jacked up for that. Thanks, Pal and GBWYall!
If you can get access to the center of gravity plane, you can fix dynamic and static on any wheel. If you glue weights on that plane you can fix the static imbalance without affecting the dynamic one. The dynamic one can be fixed by a single weight anywhere outside of that plane. The static one will get messed up but that would not be a problem.
Well this certainly piqued my interest! Got new tires a while back and the dots on the front tires corresponded to the valve. For some reason the dots on rears were not lined up. They had weights, but I could feel the imbalance. I had to do a fair bit of convincing the kid at the shop to rebalance them. I balance my own motorcycle tires, but will try the Y technique next time. Great video!
I bubble balance all of our tires. I also add a capfull of airsoft bb's after balancing to continuously fine tune itself. The ride is amazingly smooth at any speed. Even ice/snow is not a problem unless there is a lot of it on one side of the rim.
This works. It is the same method I was shown in 1982 when I started working in a tire shop. I balanced many a tire on the old Coates bubble balancer. One trip down a muddy road will throw off the balance of your wheels and tires, Not so important on the rear of a leaf sprung pickup, but detectable on the steering axle.
Way to go...! Thanks for the reminder...!! ...of the way to get the 'weight' you actually need from 2 fixed weights, neither of which works by itself... AND for showing (and giving the reasoning for) using tape to put the weights where they actually go for final balancing...! (Good idea to read the use intent from the original patent too - done that a few times too)...!
That's brilliant and so logical. So... why... when I was working at a garage in high school (decades ago), my first job, and taught to balance tires, this wasn't what I was taught ? So much lost time and badly balanced tires. Fetch break ! Fun ! lol I'm always picking pebbles out of my treads because of that. But it makes me wonder if balancing is even worth it sometimes with the gravel I pick up daily lol. Just hope the pebbles even out lol.
I have a problem with Discount Tire almost every time I buy new tires! They can never seem to get the balance right. It usually takes multiple trips and sometimes it will actually take me calling corporate to get a decent balance. This has been on multiple vehicles over the years, Recently I bought new Bridgestone tires for my F-150, the old tires were down to the wear bars, but the truck rode excellent. After having the new tires installed it absolutely ruined the driving experience, shook like crazy. Switched over the Michelin tires, same thing. The store manager finally balanced all of the tires himself with the same machine and after 4 trips it's good. Just took my Escape in to Discount for new tires, same exact thing, 6 year old tires rode great, but were getting low on tread, new tires were vibrating. I watched each wheel/tire being balanced and the machine showed them all balance out to zero. When I went back and had them all rebalanced on one machine, it showed that 3 of the 4 tires were off, so they rebalanced again and I watched as all tires showed zero on the machine, but still vibrating. I have another appointment for tomorrow, they are going to install 4 new tires and balance again. I know it's not the tires, it's the balancing. The manager said that when Hunter comes to the store to calibrate the machines they've showed them that each machine will show a different amount of weight needed for the same exact wheel/tire. I don't know if I believe this. I've talked to so many people over the years with the same exact balancing issues at discount tire. So much time and gas wasted. I don't understand how the nations largest tire chain with the most advanced tire balancers can't do it right? I absolutely dread getting new tires due to this. It's funny because every used vehicle I buy usually has old worn out tires, but they drive down the road great until I have discount install new tires. You should hear the excuses they try to give you. Bad wheel bearings, drive line vibration, transfer case vibration, etc. In the end it's always the same thing, they can't balance a tire correctly! I wonder if balancing beads would just be a better option? Do you have any experience with those?
I dropped Discount Tires when they plugged a speed rated tire on my SAAB 9000. As for balance beads, I'm running them in the tires on my Jeep. 37" Swampers and they ride smooth (not quiet, but smooth. lol). I'm thinking about putting them in my pickup tires also, but I'm going to start with a bubble balance and see how they run.
Again, learned something new from your videos. Always wondered how folks balanced their own tires, especially motorcycle tires…now I know LOL. Gonna have to try to find me one of those bubble balancers (that is not HF 😃)
Great video, thank you. I suppose you can get dynamic and static balance on the car with a side jacked up for a front wheel drive and use a piece of chalk to mark it. How is that done as I have seen it, please?
