Betaflight vs Kiss: Who's Using the Better Dshot? 

Funny how the landscape is stabilized and JB all shaky. 😆

Most pilots just put their head down during the walk of shame to pickup their crashed quads...JB puts out an informative video during his walk 😂 thanks Joshua, interesting topic that is unfortunately over my head, been running dshot600 forever.

The only thing is... Dshot out uses a different timer than the PID loop. So if your new motor value spilled out by the fc ends up in the middle or just after a new Dshot string is sent you will have to either wait for a new string or discard that new value. With a higher Dshot speed your new values will reach the esc faster. Dshot has a CRC function you could use.

@7:05 the DShot error rate displayed in Betaflight is for corrupted bidirectional DSHOT telemetry packets received by the FC, but what you're talking about are corrupted packets received by the ESC. To my knowledge BF does not have a way of viewing this as the ESC would need to report the stats back as telemetry data. The other important point that you could have touched on is that motors have momentum and can't change their speed immediately, so even the DSHOT300 53.3us packets in an 8k PID loop (125us period) are way more frequent than they need to be.

You ok there Buddy. Don't have a heart attack we need you here.

Thank you for this confirmation of the research and understanding I have done and have on this subject. Much appreciated man.

You forget to mention the difference between normal Dshot and Bidirectional Dshot. KISS doesn't use bidir Dshot but BF does. If you use bidir Dshot you have new challenges because you basically need to use a one way street for traffic from both directions. That means bidir Dshot 600 can only use half of the bandwidth of normal Dshot 600

Nice. Good video, I've often wondered why there were so many options.

Great explanation. Thanks JB 🙂

Good job explaining this Joshua. I think a lot of people didn’t understand the differences of running dshot 300 or 600 with the bmi gyro, including myself.

this was very helpful thank you jb

Thanks JB!

great comparison !!!!!!

Lol I know the post you were talking about 🤪🤪. Great video. We were just discussing this. Now also we have s2m protocol for Fettec Alpha on Fettec escs

nice sunny weather :)

Based on the comments, I think we will need another more in depth vid!!! Looking forward to this! Ty JB

currently takin a digital time signals course. EE baby!

With all the videos of your house and also liftoff I feel like I've been there 😂

Bardwell, dshot 150 can run at 8k. Dshot 600 can technically run at 32k with very small reset time. With a realistic signal reset time dshot 300 can hit 8k pidloops. Dshot 2400 can do 64k pidloops with realistic reset time. Dshot 4800 is possible and only emuflight uses it.

Great information 🚀

So what I took from this is, because my race quads work fine with BF and DSHOT600, just leave it and keep doing teh funs.

I usually just use dshot 600 as my default, my quads outperform my reflexes already😮. Get your exercise in boss, we need you👍

I'm glad default, and presets work pretty well. I just want to fly, yall are hurting my head🤣

You are starting to remind me of Captain Spaulding from Rob Zombie’s Horror Movies. That is a compliment. 😂😂👍👍🇺🇸

Interesting talk and walk, Joshua! Thanks! 😊 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

Hmm I'm confused? If the PID loop is 125us @ 8K and D shot packet is 16 bits making the D shot 600 (25.6us) and D shot 300 (52.8 us) how does the PID loop out run the D shot packet? Is there more than 1 D dshot packet. Excuse my ignorance but this info you are giving seems very important to the quad set up. Thank you for sharing this info Joshua.

"I'm Joshua Bardwell and you're going to walk with me today."

Hew joshua could you maybe review the eachine lizard95?

I am currently using 3 FCs: [Tanq] Diatone Mamba MK4 F722 APP, GYRO=ICM42688P [Wasp1] HGLRC Zeus F722, GYRO=MPU6000 [Wasp2] Diatone Mamba DJI F722 MK2, GYRO=MPU6500 All with latest BF, 8k PID loop and DSHOT600 with bench error rate < 1%. Should I be considering 4k loop and DSHOT300?? Thanks.

My understanding was that dhsot 600 should have a transmit period of about 26.7 uS and therefore dshot 300 should have 53.3 uS which would be fine to use with a 8khz pid loop and its 125us loop time. I know on a quad that has a bb1 with blujay I use dshot150 with a 4k pid loop and it works fine. Which would be a 250us loop and 106.7 uS transmit time for esc signal.

Hmmm, I did not know that about KISS, I've either had them on D-Shot 600 or OneShot. Guess I'll switch them to 2400. Thanks JB! Cheers 🍻

The house at 4:00 is that where ll those murders happened?

Using Kiss / Kiss Ultra with Kiss Esc,.....👍👍👍

Yes! Some KISS content just for meeee

The fact is that motor speed reaction is way slower than dshot 300, used with 4k pid loops. What can do faster pid loops and communication speeds? Maybe anticipate, but motors still cannot react on time. Motors are natural low pass filter devices. When they receive contradictory orders (fast!, slow! fast!) in a short time they act the same as if they where stalled, they can only draw more current to damp the overshots that they continuously receive, so the effect of dshot 1200 and a nervous pid loop is to fry motors. One thing that has to be avoided at all cost with motors is pid overshooting, overshooting at high frequency has the same effect that modulating with pwm, only that motors don't like that (they heat up when they naturally damp high frequencies), they need that the current is applyied to them to be as steady and smooth as possible so they can react efficiently. PID loops have to adapt to motors, the oposite doesn't work. PID loops are normally based on rpm as a way of simplify thrust, but thrust is not linear with rpm. Thrust behaves more like a transistor. There are a cut zone of thrust, a linear one and a saturation one. PID loops have to adapt to take advantage of the linear zone of thrust. Also I think that if you want to handle propwash efficiently you have two options, do not allow the kwad to enter in an air disturbances zone or plan a model that preanticipates to what is going to happen if the kwad enters in a air disturbances zone in a particular way. When an helicopter enters in an air disturbance zone the pilot tries to exit it at all cost.

A Healthy Vlog Josh... haha

Hello everyone, unfortunately I could not follow the post completely and need your help. If I have a MPU6000 gyro chip that works with a sampling rate of 8kHz, then it makes sense to use a PID loop frequency of also 8kHz, because enough new data is put out from the gyro. I was able to follow to this point. 8kHz = 8.000 Hz = 0,125 milliseconds But why should I then go over a value of DShot150 at all, if it already works with a frequency of 9.375 Hz = 0,107 milliseconds?

Cool yeah I know some of these words....😂

Completely random question that has me distracted... What happens when two cars meet head to head on your road? One has to backup to the nearest driveway to get out of the other's way?

What about s2m?)

Hi, give me you opinion, if you are a beginner with a radiomaster 16s, which simulator you choose to learn, and how complicate is to made the radiomaster work on PC?

👍🏻👍🏻

Do we get a graduation degree after watching all your videos?😅, you are amazing 👏🏻 thanks

The thing is flying in FPV is over all Feeling...who is flying is not an AI , i's a human being...what he feels better is going to make a better flight / result...about Kiss and Betaflight there is a huge difference in feeling (always has been like this....) and now Ultra is really on another planet...everybody can do his own choice...

All I missed was the ending of the movie oh my god how far have I come subscribe so I can go home.

🤟🏻

I played with Dshot settings a while back. I felt that Dshot 300 flew much better.

so the answer is.....listen to the developer if you don't know what you are doing

It’s interesting to see the kiss devs seemingly having the same thoughts that rs2k had with raceflight in the OG days. Faster pid loops, faster communication between the ESCs. Man whatever happen to that kid.

My oh my thats a wiggly camera.

You need a gimbal!

I wonder where he's walking to lol

First! 😎

All I know is that my quads fly great on betaflight. The rest I don't understand but hey ho.

Nothing flys better than KISS

Controversial Opinion: I'm going to trust the person who know how to use an oscilloscope to decode DShot commands on what is useful and relevant over somebody without publicly available data and logs showing an improvement. KISS/ULTRA/FETTEC flies amazing for what is is, but there's a reason everybody who has to fly to an objective target is using one firmware.

Fettec Alpha

I wasn't even aware that with this SpeedyBee F7 V3 I should run Dshot 300 instead of 600 - thanks @Joshua Bardwell

Buy a gimble

Bro u need Dshot 5000 you shaking too much

your movement makes us dizzy. please don't lock horizon.

6:00 - wo wo wo... KISS runs at 1k PID loop folks. So not reducing latency. KISS is laggy, especially on the sticks since it uses D-term Setpoint Weight still for any kick on sharp stick moves (as an option) vs. modern FeedForward like BF or iNAV. 1k = loop every 1ms. Dshot2400 = 0.03125ms So at 1k PID and Dshot2400, you send the same data to the ESC 32 time! Why? The ESC heard you the first time. Ok, so if you want to send a couple times, fine, but 32 at the risk of more jitter? The phrase "say it once and say it clearly" comes to mind. No need to beat the ESC over the head with it. Personally, I just run Dshot600 all the time, cause I'm lazy and don't care. Yeah on BMI, I tell the ESC two time (same data) so that might be a waste, but IDK.

Um.. Yeah. Watching you bounce around in the frame is weird. It’s strange that you decided to release this. Good info. Bad presentation

Hell yeah 1st comment