BIG DEBATE Over Growing Together (Sims 4 Analysis) 

My Growing Together Initial Review: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-WzkJoUxxZj0.html Cross Pack Gameplay Review: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IlhIo0gAGIY.html All Cross Pack Milestones: screenrant.com/every-cross-pack-milestone-sims-4/

I really wish the deeper dynamics between sims were base game. I just dont understand why we have to pay extra to have more realistic relationships in a simulator game.

My issue with comparing sims 4 packs to sims 3 packs exactly is that sims 4 should have more. They have allllll the groundwork laid for them. They can recycle animations, items, ideas. They just have to freshen it up, add on, and innovate. So the treehouses were new to the sims in the sims 3. They got better in the sims 4, as they should have. Games should get better and bigger, not stay the same (or get worse haha) EA saying "we added infants to BG because we thought everybody would like them" but didnt include change tables, the carriers, or ANYTHING else with them, like no, you added them because you wanted to force people's hands to buy GT.

My only issue is because it's an expansion pack, it's stuck in it's own void, look at lifestyles in snowy escape, something players really wanted but because it isn't base game it stopped getting updates, it might not suffer the same fate and act more like Get Together club where it's easy to add new milestone since it's a simple addition (like how clubs can easily add new interactions), however the compatibility feature might get stuck (which imo is confusing especially the conversation one since do I select which ones my sims enjoy hearing or doing, which one can't be set) I also think they could have gone harder with milestones and added from every pack at least one (explore new location for every world, host a deadly party with city living (have at least 1 sim die of pufferfish), formed a club, joined a club, defeated the leader of a club (Get Together), Find the lost treasure or explore the temple (Jungle Adventure), and so much more

My thing is, with Generations, it didn't add too much depth to the sims relationships because that was ingrained in the basegame. Whatever came in terms of family dynamics it was an add on, not exclusive to the pack. While with Growing Together, those dynamics are exclusive to the pack leaving the basegame feeling shallow as usual. This is one of the things that makes me feel like EA could care less about what the community wants as long as they can monetize it. They may give us what we ask but it seems if it's a request from the vast majority, we will have to pay for it even though it makes sense as a basegame feature.

I looove the imaginary friend, I wish they'd coma back 🤩 it doesn't have to be same as in TS3, maybe there could be like several different imaginary friends, like one dressed up like a llama, another like a fairy or maybe a dragon and each kid could have a little different one, based on their personality maybe, and some would not have them at all (the player could decide, maybe a better system than in TS3). They'd be the same age as the children, they could grow with them as they did in TS3

When SIM guru Grant was on the Sims team he was asked for more baby stuff and gameplay and he said no he wanted the Sims to be aimed more at young adults. Now he has gone the Sims team can add more family gameplay into the game and more of what players want. Unfortunately they never updated the coding of the base game so any new gameplay is glitchy.

I did not play much of Sims 3, as my computer could not handle it, but I played so many thousands of hours of Sims 2. Some of the features highlighted as being added in Sims 3 Generations AND Growing Together were base game in Sims 2, such as memories, attraction, private schools, etc.

I am also a little scared that the new dynamics won't be expanded for future packs, which would be such a shame. Though my main critique is in regards infants, which are really fun and chaotic with GT and kind of just there in BG. In my opinion, the tummy time should have been included in BG. Other than that, HSY and GT seem to compensate each other's flaws for me. 😄 HSY has a great world and the bubble tea store is a versatile lot type, but the gameplay is a bit on the boring side, while I really like the gameplay of GT, but the world is utterly empty and the new lot type doesn't add anything. I feel the art center from CL does basically the same as the recreation center, it just does it better.

I'm loving the dynamics so far. One of my sim families has five children, one evil, two mean. The evil/mean ones hate each other (and even fought) and the mother is close to the two nice kids. However, it needs tweaking as the mother declared the evil one her favourite (after an argument) and the father gave one of the mean kids a sneaky treat.

I actually really like the Imaginary Friend in Sims 3 😂 I understand a lot of people didn't though. I feel Growing Together fits as a full expansion because the new systems affect the entire game, and I would argue it's one of, if not the best expansion in Sims 4. I really love Sims 4, but seeing Sims 3 Generations compared to Sims 4 Growing Together, I feel like Growing Together is still missing content

I will say this before watching the full video. They are NOT the same pack and that is OK. TS4 has a completely different model of splitting up ages in packs and that is what it is. Growing Together is specifically about inter family relationships and how peoples preferences grow with them. I get it and think it is a smart addition, even if lacking in some certain ways. Also, I’ve had almost no glitches on my medium grade, Walmart computer.

So I don't actually own the pack yet (I think I might wait awhile until its on sale), but from what I have seen I think, in regards to your poll, that it does stand fully as an EP...HOWEVER I just wish that the core features (i.e. milestones, family dynamics and social compatibility) were a part of the base game as they seem like they would be no-brainer features that everyone would need to have a good in-depth life simulation game... I hope that future additions to the franchise will have these vital features as part of the base game.

I do feel that basic family dynamics/milestones, etc. should've been base game. Each pack would have certain dynamics/milestones that are exclusive to the pack and could be expanded upon. So basically the more packs you would own, the more options you could have. Of course those who already own said packs would automatically get those features free in an update.

When they release a pack like snowy escape people say it’s not a true expansion because it only affects one world and doesn’t expand the game. When they release a pack like this people say it’s not a true expansion because it doesn’t offer much standalone experience. Not sure how they win.

I think my biggest issue with the pack rn is that is broke autonomy. My sims are doing things that make no sense. Like, they'll be sleeping and will have 4 queued interactions for a crying baby that is already being taken care of. If I direct them to do something, they're way more likely to cancel it out for things that make no sense, even if the thing I told them to do is for their own needs. Last night I had a vampire sim delete interactions to drink from someone several times, just to chat with them while their thirst was growing. Then, that same sim kept picking up his already sleeping toddler just to take them back downstairs.. It's very frustrating trying to play a household with 3 or more sims rn... which is like all of my households

At this point, my mental state is more consistent and stable than the sims 4. Every time I see a new video from all my favorite sim people it's either great news or awful news, rarely in between. Release a new pack, not good enough for some. Release an update, more things break. Patch the broken patch, patch it again. Announce more kits, people lose it. Add a new stage to the base game, people complain that old people were forgotten. Good/Bad/Good/Bad....on and on!

I agree that this stands fully as an EP. Folks seem to forget that these are additions to add depth, that the base game is intended to be relatively hollow, to encourage players to buy packs. I do think it is important for the team to pay attention to these reactions while developing Project Rene.

Whether the features should be a base game update or justified to be an expansion, my main gripe is the amount of content is not enough to be considered to be an EXPANSION pack. This is a common trend for years already, since Cats and Dogs way back in 2017. Yes Sims 4 Growing Together is by no means a Sims 3 Generations, we sort of see it coming because the Generations content has been sliced up to multiple packs already.

I'm fine with the milestones being an EP feature only. Like with some parenthood features, it is one thing I would turn off when I don't feel like the added difficulty and wanted to play a less realistic save. The relationship dynamic part of this pack is more of what I'd prefer to see in the base game. I see the difference in my sims behaviors thanks to this pack and I see it as something everyone should have and not have to pay to have.

The question isn't does it stand alone as an EP cause of course it does with all of its features. I think the social systems should have been in the original base game from the start. The world is all fluff and unnecessary. The features (i.e., the loose tooth, learning to ride a bike, infant expansion, and the treehouse) are absolutely great features but the problem with growing together is that it's half cash grabby locked behind a paywall (social compatibility, infant changing tables, a memory system), half okay these features make sense as being in an EP but they should've took it a completely different way. I feel they reduce the base game to nothing then lock all the features that make the game in 2 and 3 base games behind a multitude of paywalls. That's the problem here.

This might be an unpopular opinion (maybe, I don't really know), but I wish they wouldn't give us new worlds on almost every pack. Instead what I would love to see is some more love put into the worlds we already have either by game updates or making more lots available for us to build on in each of the worlds. So many of them feel so empty and have lots of setdressing that would be nice if we could actually use any of it ourselves. I know I'd rather have less, more expanded worlds than lots of worlds that don't have much to do and feel empty. No matter how pretty the setdressing is.

loving the pack. Makes a big differenceon my gameplays and I can feel something missing when I play without it.

I think my view, on reflection, is that the fact that Growing Together/High School Years/Generations/etc feel/felt like necessary expansions for Sims 3 and 4 illustrates a consistent problem across Sims games, going back to Sims 1 (though... Never as bad as it was in Sims 1) - There isn't enough gameplay revolving around child and teen life stages in the base game, and to a lesser extent Elders and Toddlers (Honestly, most Sims games struggle with everything but Young Adult and Adult life stages). It's not like University which can be compartmentalized. This is the ability to tell/play a story about a decent chunk of a Sims life, and without the expansions in either Sims 3 or Sims 4 it didn't feel like that was present to me. Kids were... A necessary step to having well-rounded set of starting skills for a career, but it was difficult to really _do_ anything with them in story terms that was interesting beyond maybe a highschool romance that might become the family relationship they had as an adult. Hoping that gets fixed in... Any of Sims 5, Paralives, or Life By You, honestly. But ideally all of them. Just enough present for kids and teens to do in the base game that I wouldn't be excited to hear about an expansion that gives more for them to do, generally. Maybe an expansion focusing on something specific that isn't really covered (Boarding School could work for that, for example, if we could follow sims to it), but not for the core 'enough features that it feels like we can tell childhood or teen stories, and the interaction between them and their parents/grandparents, in the base game' because I don't think a Sims game has given that to me yet.

So I didn’t get Sims 3 until 2012, long after Generations came out. I did get some expansions (it came with Ambitions, and I eventually got Seasons and Island Paradise). And for years I played with just those three very happily, even if it was mostly in the notoriously problematic Isla Paradiso (no mods, and yes it was very chaotic - still loved it though). My point being that I never played Sims 3 without the base game patch that came out after Generations and gifted us base game players with body hair, spiral stairs, dating, several new lifetime rewards, and what I think is the best of the memory systems, because it can be edited. All of those things were considered necessary to the core life sim experience, and patched in even if you didn’t have the expansion pack. And that’s why I can understand the annoyance about the base game update for Growing Together: all they gave us were placeholder infants, or cute doll upgrades for the newborn baby objects. Base game toddlers still learn to walk and use the potty, but the infants don’t learn anything (well, except for the trying foods, when that works); it just seems mean spirited that one has to buy an expansion to get a fully functional life stage. And compatibility between sims should absolutely be base game; interpersonal relationships are a large part of what a life sim is about. The other things in the expansion can be expansion only and I wouldn’t complain, but I really do think that the full infant life stage, appropriate objects for that life stage, and compatibility should have been part of the base game update. (One final pet peeve: this is my first time actually getting a Sims 4 family to the point of having a child, so I have to ask - why don’t parents sit with their kids when reading aloud to them? Mine stand over their infant daughter on the floor like some kind of monster overlords making proclamations, and it looks so awkward I’ve given up trying! 😢😢😢)

Not really directly related to this, but I wish we had different dance styles. Things like ballet, tap dance, street dance and ballroom dance. I would really like it if you first had to learn to dance and then the specific style. Similar to how we have gourmet cooking, just with more than one option. Maybe you would need to take a lesson or have someone teach you the basics to start to learn the style and then you could also practice on your own.

Very interesting video, as always 😊 So, this is my opinion on the EP. BEWARE!!! It’s going to be long: Disclosure: I bought Growing Together on Monday and I’ve played pretty much 10 hours with one family. So, I played with infant, toddler, child and adult. 1) Overall: I really like pack, and I don’t regret buying it full price (is the second pack I bought full price after cottage living, which I love). There’s a lot of replay value and it’s very inspiring to play. 2) The milestones: I’m really enjoying the milestones. They’re helping me remember the life of my sims and makes them feel more unique. I’m really enjoying the challenge aspect of them, especially for infants and toddlers. But I also think that they are way too many for infants (a life stage that lasts 5 days on normal lifespan). Best aspect about milestones (and this EP in general) is that they force me to make my sims interact with each other and not only grind for career success. Great addition! 3) The family dynamic: I only experienced one (the strict) and it slightly changed my game. But I guess I have to play more. I like that they come through gameplay. 4) The compatibility system: as for now my sims have only great compatibility with other sims. This is an aspect I don’t like in general with TS4: everything is happiness and sugar and sunshine. I guess I have to force a little bit for things to “go wrong”. I’ll try it. Again, though, this EP is very inspiring. 5) the world Is useless, empty and boring. There’re not enough things to do and the lots aren’t that amazing. I think that was a waste of resources. I’d much rather had a full gameplay EP like Seasons. 6) BB: not that great. Some gameplay objects are nice, but in general it’s not great furniture (I’m one of those quite tired for the US style building, so I guess this pack aesthetic is not for me) 7) CAS: pretty nice. I like it. I wish there were full body freckles and more body hair, but I’ll wait for cc. 8) “Should it be Base Game”: YES. The problem with all those different systems is that they don’t get expanded and they don’t work together well. We now have sentiments, wants & fears, milestones, aspirations, compatibility, like & dislikes, traits, etc. Every EP has its own new system. But I think that for the game to be better there should be a base with few meaningful systems that works well with one another, and every pack should expand on that. What I mean is that (for example) compatibility and milestones should be BG and every new pack should add new milestones and new compatibility trait. But we know that TS4 doesn’t work like that. I just hope the development team sees which works best and put it in TS5 BG 9) The price point: I’m sorry to be rude, but if 40€ or ever 200€ a year are a problem, than I’m quite sure you shouldn’t spend them on a PC Game. Of all the things in the world that should be free or inexpensive, computer games are last on my list. So, I just don’t understand this continuous lament on how much the game costs. It’s way too much “first world problem” to me.

Personally I'm fine with most of the features being included in a pack, but milestones and the chemistry system would have done so much to make the base game feel like a complete thing. DLC in games are meant to be optional addons, but TS4 makes the equivalent of selling us a 'level up DLC' system in an RPG or a Pickaxe DLC for Minecraft. Do I want to buy Seasons and Growing Together? heck yeah, I would love it for my gameplay but I can't be part of the majority just accepting this and have other companies look at this and think "oh yeah, sell a skeleton then pack it with depth while making quadruple the income"

Interesting video Erin. You make a lot of good points and I agree that TS3 and 4 are different games. It should also be noted that the gurus don't intent to copy features from one version of the sims to another. In many cases the gurus have improved on features from one version to another. Another point that everyone should be aware of is that there are a lot of different people from around the world who enjoy the Sims. And to try to please everyone is next to impossible. This is one reason why there will always be disagreements, fights, etc. over the topic of the Sims. For me personally I enjoy the open-ended gameplay and creative features this game offers even if I don't agree with every decision E.A. mostly (than the gurus) want to have in the game.

I agree with a lot of the comments; when I first installed the sims 4 way back when, it felt…empty? It really and truly baffles me how much we DIDN’T have in the base game at the time. Over time they have attempted to add to it via patches and such, but sometimes it truly can feel like without these expansions you have to pay a decent amount for, the base game is this hollow shell. I love these analysis and comparison videos. You really cover a significant amount and give a fair report.

I will admit, I have been enjoying this pack more than I thought I would, and I’ve only really explored small parts of it so far! A lot of really good points in this video - I lean a bit more towards the idea that some of these features should be base game, but I also understand why they aren’t with the game’s current structure. Not everything can be included in the base game, and I think this pack is worth the cost, but I do hope to see more enriched gameplay and systems for compatibility included in the base game for the next installment of the franchise.

personally, I think that gt was perfectly fine, my literal ONLY complaint is that changing tables were not in base game, (maybe playmats too, but I'm not as sure on that one). I don't even think we need more than one changing table in the base game, maybe just one with four swatches, and more options would be available in the pack. I honestly think that one might come to the base game eventually in a similar was as hot tubs did, and I would be happy with that. Overall tho, I do think gt stands just fine as a dlc, and does not need to be base game.

Thank you for actually mentioning that not everyone liked The Sims 3 Generations, most people, even those who had played The Sims 3, ignore the fact that people complained about TS3 nearly as much as they complain about TS4, just for different reasons, sometimes! I remember all the complaints about The Sims 3, comparing it too to The Sims 2, especially how they did the cars in TS3, it was like we were going backwards with them, even then, because even though we had driveways and garages for the cars, we could go and get into them like with TS2 and watch our Sims back out of the driveway or garage and drive away! Instead the cars just appear in front of their house and they walk out their house and poof they appeared in the cars, like magic and then drove away! I still hate that myself! Sure in the end we went even further backwards with The Sims 4 with cars, back to The Sims 1, by having no cars at all! Except they also got rid of taxis, carpools, and school buses, which makes it worse then TS1 when it comes to transportation! But I do agree with the poll, I think there is so much in Growing Together it had to be an EP, and it's unrealistic for people to expect EA/Maxis to give all the new things, including the infants, all for free in Base Game, I don't think its even fair to expect any gaming company to just give away huge new features to one of their games! Even though I can somewhat understand thinking that way, seeing as EA/Maxis put themselves in this pickle, by planning on making The Sims 4 a online game, and then when they realized it might not work, they turned it into a normal game, but left stuff that was clearly meant to work with a online game and then left out other things, also because it was going to be online, like Toddlers, though also swimming pools, which I can only imagine was just going to be offered to buy within the online game, somehow, maybe! And then it doesn't help that they cut up ALL the Supernatural packs, and sold each type in GP's or even EPs, OBVIOUSLY to make more money, not to give us better game play, even if that is what happened, well at least with two of them, Vampires and Werewolves! I mean " Witches " were turned into Spellcasters, AKA Harry Potter's, and to me, blah, boring, annoying, doesn't matter! While Mermaids were again boring, though I admittedly didn't care about having Mermaids, same with Fairies too! I actually though don't play with ANY of the supernatural Sims, though, to be honest, I have NEVER played with them much, except Witches, before they became Spellcasters, with TS2 and TS3, oh and Aliens! One of the reasons I don't care for any of them in TS4 isn't the game play, so much as the fact that for some insane reason they decided that they had to have a HUMAN version as well, which me being a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to making Sims, I then have to not only create the main Supernatural version, but also the Human version, because I will not play with Maxis made Sims, not without giving them major makeovers first, and their randomized ones, YUCK, which is what we get as their human forms, that to me always looks like they really didn't know what humans look like, because they are so weird looking! lol But my point after all this, is that EA/Maxis can only blame themselves for people expecting certain things for free, because of how much TS4 was lacking when it first came out, unlike the last two games!

I can see why this pack is well received, it offers a lot of gameply to those who like family gameplay. I can also see the arguments for why a lot of it should have been base game but also why it fits being in a pack. Basic life gameplay should be in the base game, with packs expanding on that. Yet, at what point does the line get drawn where those features cross into being pack worthy? It's probably different for everyone but once you go beyond the basic depth of feature, surely that's where the line is. My comment reads like I'm defending EA (I'm not) and....ewww........now I feel icky. 😂 I certainly think EA should add more to the base game instead of putting it behind a paywall but I have to be realistic in my view of it as well.

I'm in two minds. Since buying the pack, I think this is probably one of the best packs regarding value for money. However, I am also of the belief that some of the basic features like the change tables (just even leaving a basic change table for base game players would've sufficed) behind a paywall was kinda wrong. It was kind of like "So we have a new life stage for you. but to get any real good use out of it, you need to pay to play with it." I thought the team did a great job with the pack, and I felt like I really did get my money's worth, something that I honestly haven't felt in quite a while. I also have a feeling that the team knew this would be a popular pack. I believe Parenthood was really popular, so any issues about not having a change table, well I doubt that would really be an issue as most players would buy this pack anyway

I do agree to 100% that the new futures of base game updates as well as growing together features are much needed in TS4! My reasons for not appreciating EA realising the much needed features behind EP price tag of a paywall are the following: - TS4 gameplay foundation is bad, yet with all the expansions you are near to 1000 $ that costs the full experience of TS4... it's crazy! The number of expansions is crazy, we have to suffer from so many bugs and errors within the game for years (high chairs)... it wouldn't have been a too generous move to make the whole gameplay basegame or part of a parenthood refresh imo because long term players really have been through a lot with TS4 🙈 - growing together as an EP concerning build buy and and the world feels very lacking: 1st new world: it's not well executed. I know that not a lot of people were exited about the San Francisco theme , but they didn't even deliver a San Francisco - esk feeling. They could have even reused the Tram from Willow creek go get some more SF vibes. Or they could have added more hills like in the university or country living worlds. Then... The world is empty, you cannot even play a rags to riches there, there is not a lot of reason to leave the house apart from teaching your child how to ride a bike ... plus the emptiness of the world and lack of activities within the world (little park areas, play grounds, barbecue spots, ponds for fishing etc.) Make the short number of available lots to actually build upon even more frustrating. 2nd build buy: building tool update is missing this time. Normally, we did get a build tool update with each EP, such as the curved walls in HSY, but uups, right - they are still buggy... we used to get 2 different build and furniture styles. Craftsman houses can already be build with seasons or get famous. What about San Francisco's town houses? Or getting new lots that are situated on a hill like in the background of the neighbourhood? - even gameplay seems to be lacking to me for several reasons: no new career, not enough attention to elders With a lot of packs I feel like I have to compromise with quality and quantity of gameplay, build buy or the world and even CAS (toddlers, children + males being neglected) and I really don't like that about TS4 because every time a new pack comes out I am asking myself and what is the catch?

I think if this pack came out 5 years ago I would absolutely love it, but with the state of the game currently I don't think there is anything they could do to make me excited for more dlc. Sims 4 is mainly a building game for me now, so this pack isn't really for me either. One thing I think they could have done differently is to have released infants as an update first, and waited to announce the dlc for at least a few weeks. By doing it simultaneously it made it hard to tell what is the update and what is the dlc, and it overshadowed the release of the infant update. They could have scored a lot of brownie points with the community by only releasing the free update (not enough to make up for everything else) and then they could hype up the dlc with focus on the family play instead of advertising it as infants+.

I don't know, I feel like some of the stuff in this pack should have been included in a big base game update instead, and then the world could have come in another pack or something, but I do feel like it is what an expansion should feel like, because it expanded the game and everything the pack came with could be used in other worlds. In my opinion, when an expansion is released and it feels like this, that means the expansion is doing what expansions should do. So while I feel like the stuff included could have and maybe should have been in a huge base game update, I'm not completely unsatisfied that it wasn't and I had to purchase it. I do also think its about time for them to add a new base game world, blank or not, I don't mind either way, but if it isn't blank...I vote they bring back some more big name sims from past sims games to fill the world vs it being a blank canvas.

I think Growing Together stands as an Expansion Pack. I was just telling someone how it's like seasons in that it strengthens gameplay in a more subtle but important way. Like its just there always unlike werewolves or vampires which you have to go out of your way to play with (no knock to them because i love supernatural gameplay). I don't think milestones or family dynamics should be base game because they're a big selling point of the pack. I do think a version of the changing table should've been base game though. I am, not disappointed, but maybe not as impressed with compatibility because it hasn't had an affect so far on the way my sims interact when meeting someone new. But that might just be the nature of sims 4 and not a pack issue.

I think it’s the traditional players that miss old school sims. I’ve temporarily quit trying to contact EA Support, I’m going to get my old PF fixed, I’ll need it for life by you anyway (TS3 worked 100% perfectly {no lag} on my monster & it has all my dlc too).

I feel like the base game update should have stuff for infants like changintable etc. As for parenthood and growing together i feel like they should combine those to into one, those who alrady have parenthood would be able to get growing together for 20€ (13,99 on sale) and those who dont could buy it as a fully developed ep

Many Packs for Sims 4 could be compared to The Sims 3 EPs due to using the basic themes although there are differences. For example, Get Together could be compared to The Sims 3 Late Night, The Sims 2 Nightlife, or The Sims Hot Date although the city setting and celebrity system were instead included in City Living and Get Famous respectively. While Generations is a good EP, there are some things that aren't liked. The Grounded Moodlet is considered broken as it actually prevents the Sim from attending School and it's said to cause a Sneak-Walk glitch. Scold can't be canceled although using Build or Buy Mode to place objects or building walls/fences to block the Sim can cancel it or you could use the ResetSim command. The Free Vacation feature is also worse. Accepting it will temporarily remove *all* Adults from the Household. It might not seem bad, but this could put the player at a disadvantage if the player is reliant on Sims for things like cooking. People claim it's bugged and could ruin the Sims who attend the Vacation. Lastly, Teens can't drive by default in Generations which they used to be able to do. There are also some oversights like the Clone Voucher only working for humans or the Motive Mobile not filling additional Needs like Thirst for Vampires.

I love GT but there's some bugs that still need fixing, last night my infant loved pumpkin puree but then when another family member went to feed her, it said she'd never tried it. There also other game bugs that aren't related to GT (I don't think) that I would like fixed lol.

I definitely agree that the next Sims game needs a beefier base game to be worth purchasing and investing in an entirely new Sims game. I waited until The Sims 4 had pools and toddlers and a few interesting expansion packs before I purchased it because The Sims 3 was much more engaging even with just 1 or 2 expansion packs.

I've unfortunately mostly given up on the sims and am waiting patiently for the upcoming life simulation games instead. Until one of those comes out I'll continue exploring different fascinating lives through other mediums, aka playing other games or making art.

I love Sims 3, but Generations should've been base game. It's a great pack but it's greatest flaw to me is that it should've been base game. The only thing in it that I can think of at the moment that shouldn't have been base game is imaginary friends, it could've been something that came with Supernatural. So to me, Parenthood and Growing Together should be base game as well. It's a problem I saw with Sims 2 a little, but Sims 3 as well and especially Sims 4. Pets, Seasons, Cats & Dogs, MFP, some of stuff that was in The Store, were all base game material. Basic stuff that most people experience in some form should be part of the base game and hopefully they do much better with Sims 5.

Years back, and I mean years! They should have released a decent expansion that included parenthood, high school years and growing together. Spiral staircases should have been basegame in both 3 and 4. And daycares? yes, it would have been nice, even better would be the option of actually having a home business so daycares could be run at home, but those are not going to happen as far as I know. But yeah, I don't mind them coming out as packs, I just mind that something that could easily be combined into one theme has been stretched out over years as separate packs which is far less value for us, though definitely some extra profit for them.

I've seen a theory that Kyle Kyleson in the new pack is actually the imaginary friend from childhood aged up. I mean, he obviously has a mysterious past that's open for filling in the blanks, that is never revealed. All we really know is that he's a friend we don't remember now. I like it.

Surprisingly, it is one of my fav packs, and I wasn't particularly interested in infants to start with. I haven't been keeping up with what everybody is either happy or upset about, because I've been too busy playing. lol I put this pack behind Cottage Living and about equal to Eco Lifestyle in my personal rankings. No pack is perfect. Growing Together has a lot to like about it. I'm not fond of the T/YA clothing, but it works well for A and E. I do like the hair though. And I love the build items. The treehouse is great too. I just wish we had some swatch options with it. I love that they included milestones from most, if not all, packs. I was a little disappointed that my sims didn't get a milestone for actually going to university. I also think there should be one for reaching the top of a student organization or sports team, not to mention joining the secret society. I haven't played any other specific packs since this pack came out, so I'm sure there are others I will miss in the future. Milestones seem to be taking the place of memories, so there should be more IMO. I really like the quirks for infants and toddlers, and the ability to gain more traits as older sims through gameplay. The only problem I have with the trait thing is that a sim does something 2 or 3 times and then you get a pop up about it. I don't think that going to class, doing your homework, and whatever your special project is (presentation or term paper) equates to overachiever. But what do I know? On a side note, I finally got Kyle to visit but his luggage was worth 0, not that I tried to sell it or anything lol. Then he asked to move in. lol The Kyle thing was my fault. Whenever a phone call pops up with no name, I would just hang up because I figured it was that annoying Brytani Cho doing a prank call. I finally answered it yesterday and it was Kyle. Oops. I too, wish we could do a daycare. I thoroughly enjoyed having a daycare in my home in Sims 3. I do like that the community center has a toddler and infant area so parents can take their kids there and let them do their thing, while getting to speak to other adults. I haven't tried it yet, but I plan to. I hope it actually works. lol I do wish elders would get some love. This pack gave them some new clothes and the ability to visit the grands, but they need more than doing puzzles and simbles at the rec center and going for walks. I do like going for a walk though. That is cool. And teaching kids to ride bikes. Something not pack related that I'd like to have is the ability to go for a jog as a group. Maybe we can do that and I haven't figured it out yet, but if so then point me in that direction. lol Anyway, there is a lot to like about this pack, and it is far less buggy imo than many other packs have been, but does it have to constantly rain in San Sequoia?

I just watched a video called The Disaster Of The Sims 4 by Izzzyzzz, and they perfectly explain why the Sims 4 is the way it is. Project Olympus was not supposed to be the Sims 4. It was going to be an MMO. When SimCity released in 2013, everyone was upset that it was not playable it offline. They gutted the MMO and turned what was left into the Sims 4. Sims 4 did not just launch unfinished. It was just slapped together in only one year, so EA didn't lose the millions already put into the MMO they were originally trying to make. That is why everything feels so hollow and like the game still isn't finished. I have hope that Sims 5 will be different, but I don't even want to buy it when it comes out because of how much money I've put into the Sims 4. I have paid over $1,000 for essentially just an MMO that can't be played online! I can't even describe the level of deceit. It's like my whole world it's just a lie. How can I trust EA now?

Compatibility should be in the base game update, infants could have been behind the paywall along with the changing tables. Not the other way around. Infants is a brand new feature to the franchise and specifically aimed at those who play families. I could happily play for another decade, if I live that long, without seeing an infant in the game: I mostly play young adults, ageless supernatural, and servos, so I have zero use for infants... but compatibility is everywhere. I suspect the new life phase was added preemptively to challenge Paralives and Life by You. That would have been a lot less effective if it was DLC.

So I do understand and milestones and compatibility would be good base game features, but I also agree that on a pragmatic level that was not going to happen with also getting infants for free. That was 10 gb update, which is massive. Game packs are around 18 gb (and Paranormal stuff pack was 17 gb,) so this was a free update between a stuff pack and game pack for free. I'm also from that lost set of older simmers that was upset about Generations, and even to this day it's the only pack I regret spending money on in the entire Sims franchise, I just was never impressed with what it added with the exception of the Imaginary Friend and the home movie camera. Everything else just feels very basic and shallow to me, and most things just added new things to existing systems, especially back when it was $40 ($50 for the special edition.) And then a lot of the things that could have come with it were on the store, like new toddler hair, cribs and clothes, changing table, Learning Center daycare venue, toddler walker and playpen, etc. Not getting a world was upsetting because worlds were $20 ($38 for the special edition,) on the store. And things like the proposals and wedding arch were base game in Sims 2, so that was annoying, too. All these things just kind of added up. Also, the memory system in Sims 3 was a free base game update, and it is terrible with the bloat so I keep it off. Growing Together is adding entirely new systems, and all the items included. Do I think people are wrong to want Growing Together systems as base game? No. But also I understand why it's not, and I do understand why Generations was not in a base game update in the long run. But as I get older I understand why people feel this way or that way, depending on which game they like better. We're more willing to spend on the thing we like vs the thing we don't like. But it's not up to us in the end what's free because they are a company and their ultimate goal is to make money, not friends. So, I think it's everyone's right to say "I'm not spending money on this thing I don't like."

My personal opinion is that it does stand as an EP. I mean almost all expansions etc people say should be bg and in an ideal world, sure, I would have liked to pay 60$ and got every dlc free. The model is to release a functional but barebones base game to get people to buy dlc. I didn’t create the system, it is what it is and EA ( though the worlds most evil gaming company) has updated base game components which is more than other companies would do. I mean, they didn’t HAVE to release infants base game at all but they did. Edit: of course it was a marketing ploy to get people to want to expand infants and buy dlc Making the base game free was to encourage sales of dlc. Imagine buying dlc that should be exclusive to the value of your money just being given away. Kind of makes you feel like you just threw your money away. Heck I’m still sour that I paid for the base game with far fewer features than people get now for free. Talk about burning money. There won’t be a single pack that comes out that many in this community won’t think they shouldn’t have got for free. It’s this community. No one will ever win, they can’t. It’s like the argument of over which Sims is best. No one ever wins as each has their simps and no one ever looks at things objectively anymore. That being said though, Sims 3 is the best when you tweak it to work as it should on your pc or laptop but Sims 4 caters to a whole different kind of player and if that’s their cup of tea, we’ll enjoy it like I do my coffee.

Sims 3 generations is literally like the growing together for me, right after the release of that ep for 4, i just really can't seems to be playing, there's just definitely something that interests me myself playing 3 more better than 4 for some reasons, don't ask me and judge why because it will always be superior game forever and always for me 😂❤❤😍

I completely understand that the majority feels the base game is so lackluster, but like where's the line? I see so many people discussing this or that should be base game. and like you said dlc is how the sims franchise operates. we could all say that it's too much dlc just to enjoy the game. that's just the way it is though. so many people think different things should be in the base game. I don't remember sims 2 or 3 having this much discourse on what should be in the base game, but that could be nostalgia. I think so many people feel a lot of the ep features should be in base game bc the base game is really lacking. it doesn't feel like it can stand alone. which should not be the case. sims 2 and 3 base game, in my opinion, is PLENTY of gameplay and I never felt like I had to have every ep to enjoy it. hope that makes sense.

Changing tables should’ve been base game. That’s pretty much my only opinion. But the “maybe sims 5” stuff about anything related to the sims 4, I’m like absolutely not, they’re realizing cash grabs work and it’s just going to get worse, but my cynicism is unrelated to this particular pack. I just think the changing tables being behind a pay wall and diapers just messing up my house with no way to turn it off is annoying. I know it’s a sims 2 reference, and some people like it, but it feels more like a chore to me.

Not to talk about that also this pack doesn't fix the lacking social autonomy. Sims are still mostly dolls.

Something I really dont like about growing together/infants is that there's so much to do for infants that it feels unbalanced for the other life stages.

I definitely think the pack is a good way to expand and makes sense! But I wish a lot of the infant inclusions were part of the base game (a changing table and diaper mechanics being locked behind a paywall is absolutely stupid)! I think dynamics should be adjusted in base game but a lot of the other dynamics such as close or distant sound reasonable to keep in the pack.

I really like what this brings to the game as an expansion pack, but if it was made base game then someone would complain about that 😁, on a different subject nobody has mentioned the neighborhoods in every world looks better,and the Sylvan glade the fairies calling out has anyone else been there since the update 🤔

I think that milestones could have been a base game feature that could have been added on to as time went by. I do sometimes worry that milestones will be neglected … we have seen this happen before. What I would like to point out, is that this game is an old game. My hope for the Sims has always been that the team can continue to grow and add, and change the game to bring it to life. I feel like they are doing just that! Ten years ago, they may have never thought to add milestones to the game. That’s what I think is so cool! Maybe ten years ago, the employee that came up with milestones, was not even working there yet. Could they have made milestones base game after the fact? Sure, I suppose. But I am sure that took a lot of work, and their employees need paid. I am not happy with everything from the EP, but what I see constantly from EA is growth. At the end of the day, if you look at your friends and say “wow! Everyday they continue to make changes and grow.” Then I would be happy for that friend. I would be proud of them. Sure, I know for me personally, I don’t always do things right the first time. Sometimes I even make it more difficult on myself - but as long as I am growing, learning, loving, and improving - that’s all that matters. ❤

I am glad to have growing together is to hold the heavy baby care. It's over whelming with so much so soon, i don't think a kid, young teen or slightly older can grasp the importance of this simulation is to train the mind to listen to the cues of infants and toddlers. I got to know some testy people while growing up with them, those might hold grudges against becoming a parents for the thought. That demand of parenting is harsh, less in the base game can help work up to get more from growing together. I would think sectioning of some infant chore would help get the taste of family life, while not being ready physically to take on them. The past year seems been harsh, there's some Similac shortages, recalls and horror stories. Similac shortages been stressful, not to bad, but some people to stay in keep one kind for that is what the infant is used to.

I just wanted strollers and canes

SPIRAL STAIRS!! The only thing I really wanted from the generations pack, I'm a builder and need a spiral stair please, please, please!! Add them to the game, please!! I'm only begging

My sims have no memory milestone thing of having children though they have two!

I do feel like this EP is a staple now. I'm not sure if the graphics got smoothed over, or it's just that there are more options, or both, but I feel like my Sims look really good, and have sort if "come alive" now. I honestly can say that my Sims look unique to me now, and dynamic. I actually deleted all my CC a while back when I had to get a new laptop, and I honestly can say I don't really miss it anymore. I feel like I have plenty of options, and will get even more with packs in the future. I'm really happy with the offerings I got, (though a tiny thing is still feelings like boys get alot less than girls, but I think I tend to gravitate more to designing my Girl Sims anyway...)

If I’m being honest… I LOVED Sims 3 Generations but I never used it to it’s fullest potential. In fact, I confess I didn’t even notice features outside of the tree house, sleepovers, and imaginary friends. Sims 4 Growing Together hits all the things I missed and definitely feels like it expands the game. I’m not stuck to one world to enjoy the gameplay. So when people compare it to Sims 3 I always feel so confused cause I’m like “wait… that was in Generations???” Lol

I refuse to pay for Parenthood 2.0 I am still upset they gave Simmers a basegame Hottub, which was the biggest draw to the Patio pack, but did NOT give me a Basegame changing table and/or playmat. I understand the deeper interactions being paywalled. But not my diaper table OR the playmat. Edit: Id also bet putting changing tables and mats in Basegame will NOT make the Growing Together Expansion pack as obsolete as the free hottub made the Perfect Patio Stuff pack. (Sorry. I am still not over this, despite Patio having the better looking hottub.)

I'm playing Sims 2 because it's perfect for a legacy family. I started with Sims 4 but I ended up buying the discs for Sims 1 - 3. I'm not an OG simmer obviously, but when I played the old games I was blown away by how much they offered in comparison to Sims4. Sims4 will never be able to match it's glory days, that much is obvious. If Sims4 is enough for some simmers then that's fine and that's their choice, but now I've seen the prior games I understand the comparisons better.

You summarise it well; there is no right or wrong answer. Whether or not features should be base game or not is a very personal opinion depending on what everyone defines as "essential". I for instance can agree that changing tables could have been base game as they feel quite essential to me, but many would probably disagree and argue more for something else from the pack, or be completely happy with the decisions. For the Generations vs Growing Together debate, I don't think you can draw a direct line between the two. Both packs have a family theme, but Growing Together also has a big focus on relationships as a whole which Generations didn't. So they both are quite alike theme-wise and have some of the same features, but also many that the other one doesn't have. Which pack players prefer, is again personal. I prefer the more relationship-focused Growing Together.

For me why Growing Together fails as an EP since not just the game play but also the world was basically a pretty set that can't be used which feels a cop-out whereas Highschool years and werewolves pack had pretty set but you had rabbit holes and could use some of the sets. They made seem as if there would be art classes in the centre but their wasn't. Also this make the full price of the game not worth it in my eyes. Also that they still charging full price for Dine out and My Wedding stories which is broke feels very greedy and dishonest to new players. They should just stop selling this. SnatchonSims said that he plays the City: Skylines and when they were going to make a EP that included weather the players complained and so they scrapped that and added weather in the base game. This shows me and I am not sorry to say this but we have been conditioned to accept the bare minimum with Sims 4.

Disappointed that they didn't fix the broken family tree system or give us a new career. They could have added a Dentist career and a proper Nanny/Daycare profession. New playground equipment, strollers, canes for elders, etc. No imaginary friends or cars either. Honestly, this pack is not worth the $54CAD price. I've bought incredible games like Red Dead Redemption or The Witcher 3 with all of it's DLCs for less. Who does EA think they are??

Another fun analysis! I always appreciate what you dig up. I'm in agreement that TS3 and TS4 are different games. When TS4 first came out, I infinitely preferred TS3. Now, I infinitely prefer TS4. I think that many things that I disliked about TS3 have been balanced out in TS4, and I feel that TS4 runs better overall. Unlike TS3, TS4 does not end up with major crashing if you don't use mods (and that's running it on the same computer for both.) I also much prefer the memory system we've gotten with Growing Together over the one in TS3. I had to turn it off in my TS3 games because it caused so many problems. TS4 is certainly not a perfect game. I'm wondering if that is even possible. It will be interesting to see how Project Rene/TS5, Paralives, and Life by You all line up when they are completed. Will any of them finally make players happy?

I have Growing Together but I can’t really tell what has been added with this pack…

You did an amazing job and going over the main points and features between games (and reminding us that everything wasn't rosier in 3) but I think you're too easy on Sims 4. While each generation (ha) of game "needs to do there own thing" it's ALWAYS bugged me in every type of game (Sims most notably) that they don't include everything that was in the previous generation AND THEN add their own twist or flair. It always feels so cheated that they don't include so much of what's ALREADY BEEN DONE.

I wanted walking canes. Period. Where’s my walking cane? My elders are suffering..😂

I’m still torn - I think I want it but I’m concerned that the milestones could make the infants *too* hard. If they don’t learn to sit up or crawl until just before their birthday, doesn’t that make the gameplay very similar to when they were just objects in bassinets? Except with the added frustration of your Sims constantly taking them out of the crib to put them on the floor, and the need to bathe them. 🤔🤷🏼‍♀️

I wish there was a way for a Sim to like another sim that despises them. Now THAT would be interesting.

the social dynamics system should have been base game with an update of pre-made sims to have likes and dislikes to take advantage of it. everything else im fine with being pack content (as long as milestones has cross pack support). growing together has more an issue of lack of value. the world is under developed and uninspired. rec centres should have classes. no day care career. no aged care homes and aged care career.

It would have been nice that more features in GT were base game, based on the issue of updates. I don't miss the imaginary friend, lol! 😉 But I would have loved if they added the day care feature. 👍

It feels like they locked some content meant for base game behind the new DLC so they could make it a big enough pack to call it an expansion and charge more for it =(

They didn’t add strollers 🤦‍♀️ even the Sims 2 castaway stories has change tables as is no extra $$$ actually all the stories do and they aren’t even fully fleshed out 🤦‍♀️

I don't know if it should be base game, but if it didn't have to be base game, then base game should have had something else to make it more fun and enjoyable. For me, being able to interact with your family should be base game.. Not necessarily that way, but at least in any other meaningful way. I haven't bought Growing together yet, but when I play, I never know what to do with the children. The parents end up teaching them about education, we're not sure how, but ... I'm not exactly excited about it.. Getting all of them around the table so at least they can eat together is tricky, usually the first one is done before the last one had time to sit down. I don't know. For me it's just lacking. If it was Growing Together or something else, I don't know, but for me it was clearly lacking.

I'm just so angry about the milestones resetting bug. Totally ruins rotational play with extended families.

My two sims had the jokersters dynamic and one of them ended laughing to death. Now I avoid that dynamic

I just hope they make an infant pack only or continue adding infant content in each new pack because i really dont want Growing Together. I don't want loose teeth or infant milestones. Growing together seems to make having infants infinitely more difficult with need of milestones! And the price point is outrageous.

Some of it could have been base game, extra traits, furniture etc, some could have been a refresh of Parenthood (milestones etc) and then they could have added some of the stuff that they left out (elders etc) in the pack to keep it as an expansion pack. But they didn't. At the end of the day, my opinion is irrelevant since EA won't be getting another penny from me because of thier BS forcing me off of Origin and onto thier unfinished crAPP. Then THEY get to say, with an outright broken APP and then weeks of begging for patience while they claim to be fixing it, and no assurance that it won't happen in the future, when I can play a game that I have paid for the right to play. I live in an area with kind of flaky internet. They will be spending the next 4 years installing fiber-optic in my area, but when specifically it will come to my house is unknown, maybe 4 years. I do know that the more densely populated areas of the county will be getting it first though. My internet and the requirement to use EAs crAPP will determine whether I can play and potential loss of internet potentially causing crashes, connection issues etc all for a ONE PLAYER game. Will I play multiplayer? Since I am the only person I know who plays the Sims (and I have been off of social media for several years) a multiplayer game is worthless to me. They could easily offer an option for offline only play, but they won't. I am 100% sure of that, you will have to use thier crAPP to log in, and to play.

I didn't hate the imaginary friend in itself, what I hated was the fact that all the kids got one and you couldn't get rid of it if you didn't like it or you didn't want every kid to have one. That one thing (the ability to get rid of it like a toggle in the options menu and buy if you want one) may have made opinions about them less divisive.

The Sims 4: the life simulation game where you need to continuously purchase the life simulation features.

I love your videos! I didn't realize how difficult it is to just give info sometimes from a video production perspective until recently. Good job on the content and topics, good job on your commentary, good job on putting together the video. It's interesting how you see things in a new light sometimes. Tytyty for being good at this giving us info thing! ;)

Its far from an expansion to me. There are barely any CAS and build/buy items compared to other expansion packs. It was a game pack plain and simple. Everything having to do with infants should have been base game, including changing tables, play mats, and the ability to learn how to lift their head and all that stuff. And then all the other stuff could have been a game pack on its own. I would have been totaled satisfied with that. But no, they scammed. How is it that my toddler needs to get to movement level 2 in order to climb stairs but my infant automatically knows how to crawl? Its actual BS because infants are still just objects in the base game. Imagine if we had to pay in order to teach toddlers to use the potty. Thats how this feels.

If you remove the world from the contents of Growing Together (which is easy, because the world is extremely lackluster), then it's a game pack which focuses mostly on the infant life stage. I actually think that the compatibility function is pretty broken. Townies now, I believe, are all randomly given one like and dislike. Playing through my game now, all of my sims have "Amazing Compatibility" with 95% of the townies in game, which is not realistic. I understand it's a lot of work to go back and enter individual likes and dislikes for each Sim. However, choosing not to do this does not deliver the relationship dynamics that were promised. In my ideal world, this would have been a game pack, bundled somehow with Parenthood. Folks that had purchased Parenthood previously could have received a credit towards the Growing Together game pack.

Honestly even with the dynamics if the sims already have a good relationship it doesn't do much tbh.

I think I'd like this better than Generation -- too bad I can't launch the game any more. Oh well, less distraction from learning to make my own games and from real life so its not all bad.

Thank you for this amazing video and thats really interesting the comparison between Sims 3 Generations and Sims 4 packs. You are so amazing and wish you the very best Friday and weekend.

Still say it doesn't pan out to be worth an expansion price is just a paid update

Here I am playing the game, having fun with TS4 for the first time in months, and it crashes on me. I’m so over this game.

I think I'll purchase it and give it a try.

From sounds of it . Growing Together expansion pack is what I've been hoping for with The Sims 4. I would still like to see deeper gameplay in the Sims 4. Something Generations had that I think Growing Together could've benefited from: Was lots over world. I for one, think a more detail lots would be something cool for the Sims 4. Making worlds more special when they do come. Maybe, the current issue with map & worlds in the Sims 4. There too rushed and attention has been pulled elsewhere. So, maybe in gameplay focused expansions. It's better simmer don't get a new world with that pack.

Seriously this pack was mediocre and overpriced, the features are cute but not enough to fix the game and is just a moodlet system that barely affects gameplay, hard pass💀