Hi! I'm Levy, welcome to the chess world. If you haven't played, you should - it's quite a fun game. Highly recommend my beginner videos :) This video was recorded the first day the 'drama' happened, so it wasn't as detailed as I wanted. I made an updated, more detailed video of the scandal here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YktWQrnjPwU.html
Fun fact. In a norwegian podcast Magnus talked about cheating (this was a few years ago, so not about this situation). He had a very good point. He said to cheat, you wouldn't even need to be told what move to play. Imagine you simply had a buzzer, e.g. in your shoe, that simply gave a vibration if there was a significant change in the computer evaluation after a move. This way you would immediately know that your opponent made a mistake, and that it would be worth spending time to look for it. It was implied that this very simple piece of information would be significant to turn one of his closest competitors into his superior, i.e. a 50-100 point jump.
I had the same thought. Just have buzzers in your shoes. Someone plays the game and sends signals. They could be small like you said, or more in detal, like right shoe buzzer for letters, left shoe for numbers. Then to signal C4 position piece, you do 3X on right, then 4X on left. Then repeat for the move.
that's literally what i was just thinking of, if you and the person communicating had prior language established then yeah it really would be pretty simple. the interesting thing however is who is giving him information and is it based on some engine being run because if not why would they simply not be the one competing in their place.
@M That's a nice theory. But it doesnt' work in reality because the scanners they use at these tournaments can detect electronics and radio signals. The buzzer idea would probably work at a club level tournament though.
@@Corteum but any simple signal of change in status during the match would be critical. That might not be the device but if it was it was bar related forsure.
Yeah cause you didn't play the moves, just moved the pieces. So you could not even explain 1 move LMAO....total Cheater. Would never play in a tournament with this lying, cheating, pos
Here’s my take - I’m betting Magnus and his inner circle have had suspicions since the FTX Crypto Cup (possibly before), specifically his game against Hans. The cheating would’ve involved the leak of prep, not computer assistance, which would be nearly impossible to get away with. He decided to test this theory this time by preparing an obscure line he had never played before, and his suspicions were confirmed. He subsequently withdrew from the tournament, not out of saltiness from losing to Hans, but because he now knew with near certainty that there was a leak within this camp (and who’s to say that the leaker hadn’t leaked to others as well?). Everyone is focusing on Hans in all of this, but to me, the drastic reaction by Magnus is more indicative of an ongoing betrayal by someone he trusted rather than just being enraged at having been cheated by Hans. As others have pointed out, if Magnus suspected that Hans had computer assistance then there is no upside to withdrawing as he’d never be able to prove it. The only reason to do so is because he believes there is a continuing possibility of losing to others that have received his prep. Then there is the issue of the post-game interviews. There are a lot of people that I think are dismissing them as having no evidentiary value, but I think there are just too many red flags (of course, none of them rising to the level of “proof”). The attention that has been given to him miscalculating lines when challenged by Alejandro Ramirez I think is misplaced - I think that is much more likely due to him being rattled by feeling the heat of suspicion rather than him being a ~2400 player playing at a 2800 level because of computer assistance. Ironically, the scenario that I think is most likely is that Hans has actually made huge strides in his chess game lately, but was overcome by the temptation of the opportunity to look at Magnus’s prep. The truly damning thing that I think he said (again, not proof, but as close to a smoking gun as you’ll get) was his comment that “by some miracle” he had looked at that exact line before the game by chance. This is something you often see in guilty people - they know that they’re guilty, and because they know that, they think they need to address every possible avenue of questioning as soon as possible to establish their alibi/narrative, when in reality they never needed to even broach the topic as it only looks more suspicious. All the other weird behaviors are probably due to him crumbling under the heat - the accent, the rambling, oversupplying information/providing unprompted justifications, miscalculating lines, etc. But, I think the big takeaway is that from Magnus’s perspective this is not a Hans issue but an issue with his team. Only scenario that I think fits the facts. Hans’ nervous behavior, in combination with the actions that Magnus has taken certainly amounts to a preponderance of evidence for me. The idea that Magnus is just salty about losing to Hans doesn’t have any credibility with me, sure he has an ego, but it doesn’t fit the larger established pattern of his behavior.
People keep sinking by submarine in 3 GUESSES! Forget about the battleship that always gets hit within the first Salvo... I hate board peeking in chess games!, Original divider was never really large enough, and high profile online games are spammed with opponent's grid coordinates! Chess is no longer fun for me 😔 🚀🚢
Magnus is arguably one of if not the best chess player in history. Still he has lost many games. But he’s never made any accusations like this, even when he just got crushed or outplayed. This leads me to believe even if he is wrong he has very reasonable justification to act the way he is
@@KaossTrojan Its not just that, for me the biggest tell is all about the post game interview. It felt like someone explaining project they just copied. Thats where lie has shortest legs. Right after the game he could barely elaborate on his choices. He spent hours over the board and can barley recall lines he was evaluating? Claimed a -3 lines to be winning for white. It was bad. Plus massive elo gains, and as you mentioned caught cheating in online events.
He’s literally never played that line. It doesn’t make sense to prep against something he’s never played. Hans claimed it was from a game against So in London in 2018. But no one can find the alleged game. His analysis of his game with alireza is a complete joke. Literally painful to watch. A 1500 could do better analysis.
He may have said this, but my take on this as a non chess player is that the scariest thing about this is the potential that he cheated and nobody knows how. If nobody knows how, how can they prevent it in the future?
Life ban is somewhat a deterrent, but the truth is, if magnus were cheating. Say few hints every game - plus he was careful about picking non-engine crazy moves, he would hit 2900 in no time. And nobody would be able to proof anything without outright catching him redhanded.
@@gottimw Nah, bs. You could do a move here or there every once so often, but otherwise they would definitely be able to catch you. There's statistical models you can use for this shit. But they'd need to upload every single game they had, try the engines of that time, compare models etc. etc., with enough statisticians you could definitely catch repeated cheating.
Think you're jumping the gun as currently there is no proof he cheated at all. Only thing we know right now is Magnus is implying it may be the case though hasn't said so and people don't like how he handled his interview. Frankly none of that is compelling let alone damning. Until Magnus speaks out about what he thinks happened so that can be investigated this whole thing has as much legitimacy as a witch hunt.
This is insane. I cant believe I have the privilege to witness this juicy drama live. This is the exact type of content I needed. The chess world is fascinating
Magnus lost before, yet he never made such a commotion. As the greatest chess player of all time, he can recognize patterns that no one else can see. Some of these patters might not add up
I agree. There are a couple times a youngster managed to beat him and he didnt do anything like this. Something mustve happened. Might not be cheating tho.
@@bryantimothy8616 exactly. Maybe there is something wrong with Magnus or in his environment (on which he can not comment). I read this was a 500.000 dollar tournament. If there is so much money to be made I wouldn't be surprised if there were some shitty politics.
OR Magnus & Hans just did this because they just want more publicity for Chess. :P Magnus pay Hans 1M and he make 3M. We dont know. But Magnus knows how to make money ;)
Cheating by getting prep leaked seems much more plausible - and Magnus withdrawing would make more sense too. Because if there was someone in Magnus' team leaking prep, Magnus can't know the other players don't have that, too, so it makes sense not to play them for now. If he thinks Hans was cheating, why would he withdraw from the entire tournament?
@@renatozeru at the highest level of any sport I’d say it would be considered cheating cuz ur giving them what they would use against u if someone gave the other team in nfl there playcall it would be cheating
Poker player here. We had the same with Mike Postle. In interviews he couldn't defend his choices. Just had feelings. Was unbeatable. Ultimately a HUGE scandal and a proven cheater. And say what you want about the Botez sisters but I wouldn't even know who Hikaru or Magnus were without them.
There is a difference between poker and chess though. Knowing the hands of other player is a huge advantage, whoever the other players are. But getting a suggestion of a move from a chess engine where Magnus can beat most chess engine, not so big advantage.
@@TristanOnGoogle that’s simply not true. Any decent chess engine would easily beat him 100/100 times. It’s been more than 20 years since this was the case and the gap between human players and engines only widens as time progresses. Currently there is about a 1000 elo difference between Magnus and the strongest chess engines
I think that Magnus may have withdrawn due to a prep leak. As said in the video, I don’t think that Magnus would simply withdraw because he lost the game. In the post game interview, Hans said, “I was so lucky to have prepped this line today.” Not saying this is definitive proof, just a theory.
This - people are jumping on the cheating bandwagon really quickly. It looks to me like the issue is with his prep. An analogy for people who may not understand -- they're playing the card game Go Fish! and Magnus secretly has a Magic: The Gathering card in his hand, and Hans says "Got any MTG cards?" It's so unlikely as to seem impossible, like in that analogy. Magnus is likely thinking that someone on his team leaked prep to Hans - because that's just exactly what it looks like. This coming after the decision not to defend his WC title makes me think it's a disgruntled team member or something...
why is prep leak an offense? whats legitiamtely wrong with that. both players will be ready for the same line, and then after prep they will have to use their innate chess skills and knowledge to win.
@@ChrisChoi123 this line of thought of yours is so wrong on so many levels it's not even worth it to try explaining it to you 💀 how on earth do you say with a straight face that Hans is better than Magnus at any level of chess 💀
this is a good, levelheaded response from Levy. nearly every twitch streamer i saw today was crucifying Hans and dissecting every little thing he's ever done -- it's an unfortunate situation and it may very well turn out be true, but it's refreshing to see someone just give the facts of the matter and not jump to any attacks or further drama-baiting.
@@patrickalpha1315 he covered that game yesterday, why do it again? Also people are dissecting the game against firouzja due to hans' poor post game analysis
The truth is Magnus played an obscure line that people don’t have knowledge on, on purpose to prove his theory that Hans was cheating and hans took the bait perfectly and played the line like a bot because he “miraculously “ practiced the exact line the night before without being able to explain the theory behind it
Levy, I have confirmed Hans was using a Bluetooth prostate massager to have moves relayed to him in Morse code. Please do not ask how I have done it, but just know I have now acquired the very device Hans was using. I can confirm it is very strong and after 1 hour of use, I am very tired myself. This fatigue might explain Hans’ inability to analyze the games in the post game interviews.
Just as a side note, the chess courses link in the description leads to a 404 error. I hope you can fix it soon because I'm somewhat interested in buying some and I think others might be as well.
Earlier today, Gotham announced in his discord that they're in the middle of switching over to the new courses site! I'm not sure what the improvements are but he said they limited it to just people who previously purchased the caro-kann course so that the site wouldn't crash immediately. I'm sure it'll be up in the near future
I need some evidence, until then, Hans is innocent imo. As far as cheating, the only thing that sounds plausible to me is if Magnus' prep was leaked. Curious to hear more about this because it seems pretty out of character for Magnus to act this way after a loss.
That's exactly the point. It's the first time ever Magnus did something like this so there must be something (for example if he found out something himself, or he has been told something) because a simple loss wouldn't make him quit the tournament...even if he was the most pissed off he has ever been
@@version1865 Because he can't jeopardize being wrong and then being sued for defamation of character. Even though there is a defense Magnus could say Hans is a public figure and defamation doesn't apply it would still be a tough legal battle for both sides.
@@bethanalpha4544 its not even the chess fanboys its mostly the non chess player saying he cheated because its more interesting that he used a buzzer for cheating than knowing the situation
@@mananpatel3266 She was playing really well in a tournament, beating higher elo players left and right and even a GM, and then some jealous player (not the GM) accused her she is cheating with a lipstick. She was searched and nothing was found, but the damage was done and her winning streak became a losing streak.
Hey Levy. I usually lurk here, but I was absolutely stunned by the antisemitism in your pin of shame today and so wanted to speak up. You do an amazing job, and you've made a positive difference to loads of people. Sorry you have to deal with such cretins. Keep doing what you're doing. Thanks for everything.
Part of me feels bad for Hans... imagine he is just playing great chess and gets accused like this. The other part of me hopes Hans is a big fat cheater 'cause that drama is juicy AF.
I can't imagine Magnus would put this out there without having a good reason to think it. Also didn't hans beat someone the other week then proceed to lose every game after that. Makes sense if he could only cheat for one game, and his rating has gone through the roof lately.
@@countofst.germain6417 I think that was a Rapid tournament, and he won games against all his opponents there, just didn't win any of his matchups so ended without points
This guy: I'm all about the facts here Also this guy: Would Magus make such allagations if there were no grounds? I'm certainly gonna speculate that he wouldn't...
Magnus suspected that there was a mole - a leaker - in his inner circle, someone very close to him. So he prepped an obscure line he had never played before, and his suspicions were confirmed when Hans fell for the trap - Hans admitted in the post game interview that it was "a miracle" that he prepped for that opening in the morning prior to the game - yeah sure. Magnus did not bolt the tournament because he lost a game - he stormed out due to his feelings of a supreme betrayal. In time - we will find out who his Judas was - Judas betrayed Jesus for 30 silver coins.
if hans did cheat, his career in chess is over however if he didnt cheat i really REALLY feel bad for him. 1.his biggest moment ever got over shadowed by drama 2.his image got way worse forever (until proven otherwise) 3.and now there is a chance he wont get first place in the tournament just because his win against magnus does not count.
@@elcharro3548 I mean in other sports there are usually even more people involved with doping and yet it often takes years for it to come to light. So yeah, maybe you're right, but who knows how long it would take?
If Hans cheated and is exposed, his career is over... All games and sports have had cheaters. They cheat because they think they're not gonna get caught. Hans may have cheated and will never be exposed. Then his career took a minor hit. Or he may be legit, and then sadly, his career takes that same minor hit.
2 года назад
If he didn't cheat then Magnus deprived him of a genuine victory and the accolades he deserved for it.
Levy is a fantastic presence in the community. Levy if you read this I hope your anxiety isn’t keeping you locked up, you’re a huge inspiration to me and the main man when it comes to who I think of that pushes through it. Thanks for all you do!
If that's all it is, even if it's true, Magnus had BETTER come out REAL SOON and say that's all he suspected. Otherwise Magnus is turning his own reputation to scum.
I think it's actually most likely he got Magnus's prep. Like there's no way Magnus is treating his prep like some kind of national secret intellectual property with two factor authentication
You're such a stupid absolute f**k. Magnus has only played this line A SINGLE TIME in history. How would he even get magnus's prep? Just shut up already if you don't know what you're speaking of Hans's whole interview post game is super sus, and he's been caught cheating several times in the past. Once a cheater, very likely forever a cheater
Wow I honestly just assumed this was going to be "Someone refused to shake hands. It's not really a rule but people are really sour about it" but this is actually a chess scandal.
Currently living in St. Louis and been going to this tournament a few times as a spectator, they have a lot of security. They have metal detectors, the guards scan you, and yoy have to check your phone in before you can spectate the players.
@@boaconstrictor3754 To to clarify, I'm not suggesting this is what happened - I'm quite casual on chess so don't really care personally about this event. Anyway, I've read a story about a past chess player who had somehow organised a communication device (perhaps a phone? I can't remember) into the roof of the toilets, yknow the industrial roofs separated into square sections, and the inner sections of each square lift up into an open space for wiring/scandalous
with all due respect, i believe a bigger scandal in chess history have been the direct accusations of cheating in a world championship match - such as kramnik vs topalov and the famous toilet affair.
I think he says its the biggest because chess is right now more popular than ever. Much more popular than 1900s. IF that type of even happend now it would without a doubt be bigger.
"In an interview after the game, Niemann mentioned that he prepared based on Carlsen's use of the g3 Nimzo-Indian against GM Wesley So in London 2018. However, this game does not exist, and online database has not been able to locate any other modern game by Carlsen in this line." Not sure about the accuracy of this claim, but it would be a shame if the cheating accusations are true.
@@NeaEmrys No, the only thing Wesley said was that he wasn't in London in 2018. And the game Short mentioned is in the databases and you could easily verify that info instead of spreading misinformation. I just checked. Magnus Carlsen vs Wesley So GCT Kolkata Rapid & Blitz (2019) (blitz), Kolkata IND, rd 9, Nov-25 Nimzo-Indian Defense: Romanishin Variation. English Hybrid (E20) · 1/2-1/2
When I was younger I didn't think Lance Armstrong cheated because I gave the institution of cycling too much credit. I figured he is tested and monitored so much that it is not plausible he could get away with cheating. Then upon learning the systematic way that Lance cheated and easily got around safeguards, I came to realize that organizations are often not run as well as you would assume. You would assume that the organizers check really well, but so many holes always exist that can be exploited by someone willing to take the risks. I'm not saying Hans cheated, but I doubt anti-cheating measures are strong enough in chess to thwart a skilled cheater.
Cheating in endurance sports and chess is completely different. Cheating in OTB-chess at this level is almost unheard of while cheating in endurance sports is multiple occassions every year since the dawn of time.
@@Martin-qb2mw Hans has history of cheating. Could not explain his moves. Suggested alternative lines that were dead lost. Played lines that baffled Alireza and Magnus. Commentator knew the lines better the higher rated player that *just got done playing the game against two of the highest rated players in chess history* and somehow, you think that's not extremely suspicious? Ok.
@@Martin-qb2mw exactly. All Olympians, NBA NFL high level players use super vitamins. Some just hide it better. Top 50 riders definitely take supervitamins.
In physical sports like bodybuilding, powerlifting, a lot of olympic sports, "cheating" is the norm, not using PEDs would just be playing at a disadvantage, so of course everyone does it but tries not to get caught. I don't know a lot about cycling but it would not surprise me if many many of them are indeed on drugs.
@@donquixote8462 No I don’t think a chess gm who hasn’t analyzed the game on a computer would know the lines better then the person who spent the entire game staring at stockfish
cheating in chess and using performance enhancing drugs as an athlete. those two can't even be compared. i think cheating in chess is actually a grave offense.
The circumstantial and prior online evidence doesn't look good. He may not be "cheating" with an illegal device but something really strange is going on. Guy can't objectively evaluate a position or lines accurately but weirdly studied a 20+ move sideline variation of the g3 nimzo Magnus has never played because he prepared for it by studying a game that doesn't exist. 🤷🏻♂️
@@Xbox360SlimFan I am being fair. I was on Hikaru's stream whilst Hans was being interviewed and his opinion was Hans couldn't objectively evaluate a position that flat out hung a piece. Go watch the section of the stream where he was talking to Aejandro and see if you still doubt it.
Sounds like ur saying that magnus win only if the position was his Prep..U know its like if magnus mess up hes prep he lose???.. This guys can play chess blind folded with 10 opponent....Its just shows that Magnus s still a human being..
@@paulm2518 I watched it and sure enough he did not understand the position. I meant generally Hans is able to evaluate positions and lines. The interview was very suspicious though, not gonna lie! Edit: The position is only winning for white if You find that ridiculous engine line. Otherwise white is fighting for equality. His line was trash because it was essentially a tough position. Magnus can play chess, we both know that. Still, it happens rarely that Magnus gets out-prepped in classical.
@@Xbox360SlimFan A fair reply. I was probably heavy handed in my terminology. It's not to suggest that Hans can't evaluate lines at all, he is clearly a strong player. What is probably a fairer comment is he did seem to show is he was unable to evaluate to the standard expected by someone of his perceived strength and ELO.
Honestly, all that comments about the interview after the match with Alireza seem to forget about the fact, that this day was strange for all players, let alone Hans. Imagine if he maybe is really innocent and you are still supposed to continue the tournament and give interviews and analysis. Ofc you might be nervous, even if you're innocent. Not saying he IS innocent, but still people should maybe consider this. And don't say why should he be nervous, if he doesn't have anything to hide: that line is and was always bullshit...
exactly - the evidence does seem somewhat damning, but until the truth comes to light there's no reason to assume his guilt and ruin his reputation. Like you said, when people say things like "the innocent never run", or "if he's not guilty he has no reason to be nervous", it's incredibly dumb to assume that only a guilty party feels fear when shoved into the spotlight
@@rubikvoncube3583 What evidence exactly exists that "seems somewhat damning?" Did they find him with a cheating device? Someone communicating with him covertly and it was caught on camera? I'm curious how you can make a claim to evidence existing here. Please provide.
@@boblikes correction: I should have said "the situation" instead of evidence. Posted my reply in a rush and accidentally used the wrong word, sorry about that. I'm simply referring to these two facts: 1) Hans played moves that represented perfect prep for the position (according to a comment that I saw, 20 moves of prep, although I can't verify the exact number personally) 2) After the game, Hans seemed unable to explain the position he played so perfectly, indicating that that he likely (not positively) did not understand the moves, but was rather reciting them from memory This *situation* (not necessarily evidence, as you rightfully stated), combined with the way Hans spoke trivially of the position, all just seems a bit fishy, that's all. I'm not making an accusation, but I am saying that based on the situation, a reasonable accusation could be made. And by "could", I mean that it's possible, I'm not implying anything that it should be made, or that such an accusation is a strongly supported one, only that it is not completely baseless. However, that aside, my reply was not really intended to focus on those details, the main point was that I was trying to echo OP's sentiment that people assume nervousness implies guilt. I was more focused on that idea rather than the details of the situation, hence why I misspoke
@@boblikes You probably know this but his rating went up in a way that hadn't happened in the game's documented history. I think it's unusual to make drastic improvement to your game at that level so the obvious possibility is he found a way to cheat.
Eh, there's no way this is bigger drama than the Eagles saga at this early stage. That was also super-GM level chess, there was actual evidence of cheating rather than just bad vibes, and not to mention it brought us the iconic "PIPI in Pampers" corncob rant. If evidence actually comes out, then maybe.
@@jaconova a guy called Tigran Petrosian (not the old Soviet world champion) cheated in a game against Wesley So. Everyone called him out but he said he has been playing chess since Wesley was doing pipi in his pampers and can beat him whenever he wants, even though Wesley is like a million times stronger than Petrosian. That was a big scandal
@@jaconova To elaborate on ColdSpine's explanation: I called it "the Eagles saga" because the cheating took place in a team tournament between national teams (the "Professional Rapid Online Chess League" aka "PRO Chess League" aka "PCL"), and Petrosian was playing for the Armenia Eagles when he produced his suspicious results. Levy made a video about it at the time: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nqzl3q9Bsh0.html
End of the day, even if there is no hard evidence the fact remains that Hans has cheated in the past and Carlsen has lost in the past without making any accusations of this sort. I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to Carlsen on this one, but unfortunately this is the kind of decision that requires absolute certainty, not a 60-40 split.
Why would Magnus just accuse someone because he lost to a relatively high level world class player? I suspect he knows because these people can tell the difference between engine or human moves.
@@redstarkboxingsportsnews4289 Yes the G.O.A.T is jealous of your cheating "prodigy" idol just like the sun is jealous of a painting of a lit candle. Keep believing it to get rid of that insomnia!
@@muffntheB well then the people who's job it is to be on their team and help them prep can't be making a lot either, so a hefty sum is a lower amount than if they were rich
I think the fact that EVERYONE at the event is pretty suspicious about the whole situation shows that there is clearly something that we as viewers aren’t there to witness and we don’t understand. And to top it off, that post game analysis interview was hilariously awful. Hans completely evaluated that position wrong.
@@jaideepshekhar4621 he hasnt veen CAUGHT , he was playing a non rated online game with someone , was livestreaming, and was openly trollig by looking at engine moves in front if his audience
@@cricfizzer4498 Nice, but to look at the engine moves while playing someone online is literally the definition of cheating in online chess. Must be hard to live with below 80 IQ my dude cricfizz... Hope that you will be accepted as MC donald worker after some special education.
I think Hans Niemann should be banned from ALL professional chess tournaments and matches, period. He’s name is Mudd ever since he confessed of cheating. How could he ever be trusted?! Having said that, FIDE and the USCF, as well as all other chess organizations, should have tighter controls of professional chess games, applied to all participants.
My take on it is that Hans did cheat but not with a phone or something. I think someone from Magnus' team either sent Hans Magnus' prep or he got it through some other way (hackers or whatelse etc). It just felt so weird that Hans said he literally prepared a 20+ line the same morning he played Magnus. I know these guys put hell a lot of prep if they play a serious tournament but you just can't "randomly" predict a line Magnus has never played. And that's the next thing Hans said Magnus payed this g3 system once already and he looked at that game but that's just wrong. Magnus never played this in any classical tournament, and definitely not in the London chess classic 2018. I'm gonna say there are no evidences yet and as I've stated before it's just MY PERSONAL TAKE. Levy already said that success can be addictive and I 100% agree if you went from 2500 to almost 2700 in like no time you need this feeling of being successful and recognized by the public. Hans is a little arrogant which is good for a top level player in any sport but sometimes I feel like it's going more into a narcissistic way rather than a healthy arrogance like for example Magnus has. Magnus definitely thinks that there is something fishy going on, if it's Hans or something else (a rat in his team) who knows. But the world champ quitting the tournament after a loss is something I have never seen in modern chess especially Carlsen he has lost to 2500s before and sure was upset, but never gave up.
A rat seems unlikely, but hacking is probably a real possibility. It makes you wonder how much prep is being stored on computers for these teams. I'm sure almost all of it is. If that's the case, it's only a matter of time until someone decides to hack people's prep. I'm not saying Hans or anyone on his team did and if he did, we'll probably never know. However, FIDE should look into cheating in this fashion and how to prevent it.
Makes a lot of sense, and honestly, I dont even think it would be that difficult for someone who knows computers. I'd be surprised if even the top level players were doing game prep on VPNs or encrypted servers, their data probably just sits out in the open
@@griffinq8003 Hahaha I bet most GMs would just simply stored their pgns to drop-box/GDrive. I rarely find people who felt that they need to put their things behind private server, and I worked at IT division.
This is wild but I don’t understand how people can credibly accuse him without even a hint of how he would accomplish this cheating given that he was patted down and wanded before entering. For it to be true, he would need to come up with some insane cheating mechanism that could circumvent all anti-cheat efforts including broadcast delay.
Just based on all the speculation I've seen, people are attributing it more to Hans somehow finding out about Magnus's prep and taking advantage ahead of time rather than some explicit cheating in the moment
Tu ne dois pas jouer souvent avec un ordi. Il est impossible de jouer comme eux. Les ordis d'aujourd'hui n'ont rien à voir avec l'époque de Fischer... On est rendu au 21e siècle au cas où tu ne l'aurais pas remarqué. On apprend par coeur son propre travail de préparation. C'est comme si tu reprochais à un mathématicien de connaitre par coeur ses formules. C'est carrément idiot.
I don't comment on videos often but extremely level headed take by Levy. I respect that... especially in media which is an industry that rewards hot takes that are made quickly
Thank you for not jumping on the bandwagon like other chess streamers who have spent hours dissecting and mocking a 19 year old for using accents (probably inspired by subconsciously copying his idol chess players) for not following social cues and hyperfixating on random aspects of the interview when all of these things are common for people on the spectrum. The fact that most chess streamers are acknowledging that the game itself against magnus does not seem especially dubious in terms of unreal moves (infact most agree magnus played poorly) yet are convinced he cheated and are broadcasting it to impressionable viewers who know very little about chess is just terrible. Thank you for being mature, this is why youre the best
Lol the title of the video is an absolute joke though. He already frames it as “CHEATING SCANDAL” meaning there was cheating happening. It’s funny how he said he doesn’t wanna jump on the bandwagon but then puts out this video title.
maybe next time he learns not to click bait. I came here to hear about the scandal, not for seeing other ppls games. He has plenty of videos of chess matches.
Cheered by the analysis of the queen and Rook pawn with adjacent Knight pawn ending. I fell into a stalemate trap in that Vs McShane in 2000. But a spectating Speelman said afterwards that converting the advantage was no piece of cake.
Problem is, you can't prove a negative, so Niemann can never clear his name. The stink of this will always follow him. It would be terrible if he's legit.
Well, he could clear up why he made verifiably false statements in his post match interview, and have a believable explanation as to why he prepped a 20-move line on an opening his opponent has never played.
As someone who was accused of cheating (not in chess I'm not that good) but on a national finals exam I'm telling you that you should treat hans as 100% innocent until proven otherwise. We are forgetting he did bit magnus just a month ago and even though he still lost the other two it is definitely possible. The last thing someone who said he wanna drown needs is to be accused of cheating
No evidence at all. Noone didnt even think about Hans cheating until they saw Magnus’ tweet lol. People are so easy to changing their opinions in a second
@@10thletter40 the game hans was refering to in the interview between Magnus and So does exist. I dont know why ppl just repeat such easely falsifiable claims. Since i cant post link just look for: Magnus Carlsen vs Wesley So GCT Kolkata Rapid & Blitz (2019)
I love that watching Gotham's videos is not only a chess study, but also an english vocabulary study, as I am not a native english speaker and Gotham always uses some very hard words to me hahahahah.
Hi Gotham. I just wanted to say I appreciate your comments about anxiety in the video. They were subtle but very important to me. I had a very unproductive day because I was extremely anxious about this and I felt silly about it because it’s not relevant to me personally at all. I’ve felt so silly and stupid for wasting so much time exploring and watching this unfold, but knowing I’m not alone and that you also have felt this anxiety about the situation is extremely reassuring and validating. So for that, thank you.
Me too. A little disconcerting how emotionally invested I am in the lives of these people that are nothing to me. Because it is Magnus, it makes it all the worse. He is someone you obviously look up to as one of the greatest chess players of all time, and yet I find his approach here to be very unsatisfactory (with an obvious insinuation but no concrete details or accusations). I find Hans to be rather bizarre and his comments to be in poor taste, but it seems entirely possible that he just won the game fair and square. Magnus needs to clear this up and he should not have posted something so inflammatory. Withdrawing is fine and I support that for any reason, but you can't leave things like this.
Here’s my take - I’m betting Magnus and his inner circle have had suspicions since the FTX Crypto Cup (possibly before), specifically his game against Hans. The cheating would’ve involved the leak of prep, not computer assistance, which would be nearly impossible to get away with. He decided to test this theory this time by preparing an obscure line he had never played before, and his suspicions were confirmed. completely!
But Niemann winning against an obscure line doesn't prove that he was cheating, or that any information was leaked. The contest went into a deep endgame, it wasn't like Niemann won quickly and decisively against Magnus (as if that would have even been feasible even with outside intervention). At some point, he would have had to outplay him, unless he was receiving some sort of transmission in real time, which seems pretty far-fetched. And if it somehow happened, that speaks to the need for significant more security measures that need to be imposed in a professional tournament setting, like this one.
Then Magnus had to make his suspicion clear rather than allowing all the suspicion that the kid, Hans, is actually cheating against the FIDE rules of chess. Shame on Magnus in that case. As this goes on, I am becoming more and more disgusted at Magnus for allowing it to continue without his supporting Hans.
How did the chess world come to the conclusion that Magnus thinks that Hans cheated and that is the reason he quit? Magnus didn't say anything like that, not even close. The first one I saw theorizing this was Hikaru and then the chess world just ran with it. It's ridiculous.
@@jaideepshekhar4621 I just think we should be careful making such accusations without any evidence because the accusation itself is very damaging (for example what happened to Anna Rudolf). I also think that Magnus’s reason for withdrawing is completely unrelated to his loss against Hans.
@@jaideepshekhar4621 I think that's why he tried to implying. Magnus tweet might be sus but he never openly accused hans or anyone for cheating in this case.
@@jaideepshekhar4621 I have no idea what he meant And I rather not speculate. He is a human after all and doesn't owe anyone anything. It could be a private matter that he doesn't want to share and simply not showing up wasn't an option so he tweeted. I just hope his career won't suffer because of this (in terms of sponsors and whatnot)
It was good that you repeatedly pointed to the most basic but also the most important thing in this matter: We need evidence before we can reach any conclusion!
At a MUCH lower level of play, when I was 18 and rated high 1600s, I went 5-0 against the field including a win against a master, then drew a grandmaster in round 6 and lost to the tournament's other grandmaster in round 7 winning the Under-1700 section outright and placing 3rd in the Open section with 5.5 and poor tie-breaks against the two GMs with the same record. People were dumbfounded and upset but we didn't even have cellphones, yet, so certainly none of this social media craze. In my case, I had only played 1-2 rated tournaments a year for maybe 6 years and my rating ALWAYS jumped 100+ points as my ability to think critically improved and my studies advanced my game. There was good reason for my results. And in some cases, you simply play above your level for awhile. Happens all the time in all kinds of fields of endeavor. Or maybe this just is Hans' level and he's arrived? As you say, the burden of proof is on the accuser. It's unlikely that Hans is Magnus' peer/equal. But it's not impossible. And it's certainly not impossible on any given Sunday... that's why you play the games.
The scariest thing about this is that the only evidence of cheating is that he won. That’s not a good precedent. You beat Magnus, therefore you must have cheated. It is wrong to accuse someone of cheating without solid undeniable evidence.
Anyone in competitive world always calls cheating, oh its steroids, has to be I cant lose im the best. theres always someone better its not cheating well usually not. like in shooter games its mostly not cheats as much as its accused. but there is a lot of cheating at the same time it is hard to tell. A lot of times its just better skill or they know your style and counter.
Yeah the question is how he cheated. But what if he didnt and he just had the game of his life. I mean Magnus has a realy big ego and seems to be acting kinda weird and he loses.
Magnus has been beaten and even crushed before. This wasn't the first time he lost. So it says something that this is the first game he calls out for being suspicious.
As someone else already said, magnus has lost before. But he never accused anyone. Combine this with Hans cheat history and magnus playing a move he has never played before (also he said that he prepared for magnus playing this move even though Magnus has never ever played it.. Really sus)..... Yeah seems really weird to me
whatever the truth may be, someone has made a mistake. if the cheat was real it’s hans and if not it’s magnus. and you’re right, it’s either a or b. it’s just sad that both a and b feels devastating either way
It's on Hans for cheating multiple times in the first place. Like the boy who cried wolf. Now even if he's legit, people won't believe him. That's why you don't cheat. It's disrespectful to the players who work hard to become professionals and the game's integrity.
If it turns out that Hans was cheating, that wouldn't mean chess has bad anti-cheat measures. No system is perfect and cheaters will eventually find the weakness. One cheater, even at the highest level, doesn't say too much about the quality of the anti-cheat measures (unless he was cheating in a very simple way, for example). The key is just to update those measures to prevent future cheating.
When Hikaru first went over that game, he also looked at computer recommended moves to some degree, and I didn't get the impression that Hans played the moves the computer recommend for the most part. I'm not saying Hans is definitely innocent but if he is then I think all of the innuendo is really unfair and will probably screw up his chances in this tournament by weighing on him.
There is a shit ton of mean speculation surrounding Hans right now and honestly I am disgusted with the chess community. There is zero evidence of cheating. Magnus is a sore loser and a dick.
@@thestate2613 It's cheating, in the definition of the word. Whether or not the tournament covers that specific scenario doesn't make it "not cheating" when the word means what it does.
I love the wild speculation. Leaker in Magnus's camp, Niemann is hacking Magnus's cloud, Niemann dressed up as a sexy Norwegian escort and, after fulfilling the initial obligations, rifled through Magnus's computer while the world champ was catching Zzzzs. No offense, but this entire affair is so indicative of the online mob mentality causing a lot of damage to people based on little to no evidence.
I love how even addressing the controversy, you carry on but keep going back to it. That’s the most realistic take and how we feel about it, because it is a rippling effect.
Everyone is just buying it because it's Magnus Carlsen. No one is willing to tell the emperor he is walking around naked. He played poorly (for his caliber), and lost. He should acknowledge that instead of letting his ill advised comment destroy some kid's career.
