I know Im asking the wrong place but does anyone know a way to get back into an instagram account? I was stupid forgot the login password. I appreciate any assistance you can offer me!
@Aden Jason i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and I'm trying it out now. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Billy Corgan is a smart man and all of you out there bashing him for his business vocabulary and technical terminology need to really grow up. He knows what he's talking about.
The cool thing is due to the lack of the industry promoting rock music the past 2 decades, kids are discovering the powerful music of the 90's. Thanks in part to the kids that were 8 or 9 years old when guitar hero came out, they got to hear this music for the 1st time. Now in there late teens and early 20's they get it. I think we are about to see a great rock Revolution
The dude predicted Kpop for exemple, understood the work of the internet for indie music . This dude is really smart and know what he's talking about. He's not a genius, he just understand what's the world around him.
Also, the thing I think everybody misses is that rock and roll originally got its power from being the dance music of blacks and poor whites, it's "rebellious" quality was always less political than it was sexual. Hip-hop is now the sexually expressive music of the marginalized classes, while rock and roll is boutique art for intelluctuals. I feel like this is close to the bottom line.
devastator jr: What's happened to Rock over the last couple decades or so is what happened to Jazz when Rock first emerged and eventually overtook it as THE driver of mainstream western pop-culture (and what, ultimately, will also happen to Hip-Hop as it passes into its fifth decade of existence as an entertainment medium -- next year). With the advent of both recorded music and radio technology becoming available to the masses, Jazz replaced Classical music as the entertainment medium that drove western pop-culture at the dawn of the 20th Century, rendering the latter to become the music of academia. Fast-forward about half a century, parallel to the emergence of television replacing radio as THE platform by which pop-culture propagated itself, and Rock did to Jazz what Jazz did to Classical. Then, after about another half a century, as cable and later the internet replaced analog TV as the primary propagator of pop-culture, Hip-Hop did to Rock what Rock did to Jazz. This is a cyclical pattern that I see inevitably repeating itself as the generation that helped one nascent emerging entertainment medium replace an older, pre-existing established medium as the catalyzing agent of pop-culture ultimately ages and a younger generation matures from adolescence into early adulthood and gradually loosens that earlier generation's influence on pop-culture. Some newer genre (perhaps not even conceived yet and, very likely as Corgan sagely posits here in this interview excerpt, to emerge from a part of the world not in the Western Hemisphere) will come along to render Hip-Hop the next academic music.
Rock n roll means hard as a rock and jellyroll. Jazz comes from the word jizz. Punk is spunk. Almost all major music movements of the last century were insidiously degrading society under the banner of sexual liberation and "rebellion".
absolutely! top 40 bands played live and people went to socialize and dance, live and love....dance took over,.. djs took over.....you look at pop and hop hop ...well yeah....how about raves?!!...how many people go to raves?.....rock was completely fuled by the human expirience .......and as humans flock to a new outlet for that what ever they left dies.....rock and roll was as dead as blues was before srv revived it....who can revive rock today? greta van fleet?
Yup, it’s all so safe nowadays, you don’t have to go into a different worlds to experience music and dance you just open up RU-vid. American culture is like American education, you only know what is presented to you and your knowledge is not based on any personal discovery it’s just memorizing other peoples ideas.
Maybe it's just me, but I always feel a sort of extreme denial coming from the "popular" music of today. Every generation has its own situation, and ours is one where information is being spread very rapidly via the Internet, more people are manipulated into buying stuff, the fear of appearing uneducated and/or offensive is more important than sticking to your guns, etc. The stuff I hear coming out today - electro-dance music and "indie" rock/folk, that sort of shit - nothing simultaneously embraces and denies our situation at the same time. On one hand, the music reflects our increasingly digitalized lives and our desire to appear more refined cerebral (thus, the move to making music that is softer, trippier, and lyrically subtle). On the other hand, this whole movement feels like a retreat into our own decadence, like we've grown complacent with our situation and want to drink to forget. This world is not ok and it never will be. Anyway feel the same way?
There are these artists he's acting like don't exist. You guys just can't find them because your expecting the mass media or some populist blogger with limited taste to deliver it to you. I have personally watched attendance at underground rock and experimental pop shows dwindle only within the last 10 years. Music is a community sport, but if no ones playing how are these talented musicians supposed to build a fan base? Get off the fuckin internet and go see a show with a bill of unknowns and tell me there isn't anyone who's talented writing music anymore. It just isn't true.
mmm81 m I feel like we need another music movement to destroy the mainstream musical shit that is spewing on the radio every two seconds. It's always the same songs. The same dull, simple lyrics a five-year-old can come up with. (And Understand) And it's always the same mindless artists. Now you just need to look hot for them to put you on a stage. Where did the talent go? Where did the originality go? Right in the trash. We need to start a musical revolution to put an end to mainstream music. There is no music industry any more. There is no Hollywood. With that being said, #FuckMainstreamMusic
I make hip hop & rock & I agree. I’m gonna play the game rn & then when I’m in a position of influence, come out with some ballsy, grimy ass music, just wait
As usual, Billy is right on the money in his interpretations of modern music. What resonates with me is the fact that indie music is so exclusive. No one is saying "sure let's put this band out into the world with all of these tools of technology that can make this small band from a pudunk town in the Midwest bigger than one direction or katy perry." They think that they're being clever with the music industry by keeping what they're listening to a secret, as if they were some sort of resistance movement. Honestly, the music industry doesn't give a shit if a few "cool kids" aren't buying their craft because they have millions of people who haven't heard of good indie music who decide to settle for whatever is on the radio, like one direction or pitbull or katy perry. I'm sure that these people aren't at fault, but I'm sure a lot of fans of indie music could be created by just giving them that opportunity to experience what the "cool kids" are listening to.
A great man once said the exclusive cool kids group are only cool if they are exclusive. If everyone on the playground has an older brother sneaking them smokes then everyone is gonna be getting cancer and no one is gonna look cool doing it. Fuck the Mainstream and fuck the music industry I really don't care if they make money or not let them have biebers millions of fans I don't care. We are not keeping secret we are listening to awesome music and sharing it with friends. It isn't hard to find I just fucking used google to find most of it. If people are too lazy to go online and find good music and they instead want to be spoonfed then I don't want them to be with the cool kids because they aren't cool. Part of what makes the underground music so good is that sense of self discovery.
So true man. One of the things I noticed in college is the "cool" bands only go to the big cities. I luckily grew up only a few miles from Chicago in Oak Park so my friends and I went down to Lollapalooza. But my friends in Cary, IL and the suburbs of Michigan grew up with basically just Vans warped tour. "Cool kid" music is very exclusive to urban areas. These bands spend all year marketed as "obscure" and "underground," yet they turn around and only play the major festivals or do dates in big cities. So yeah absolutely getting them some exposure outside of just major cities would help. Instead it's about obscurity I guess.
2:50 - he was right, basically predicted Death Grips, Brockhampton, etc. Self-produced, both cult and largely popular and influential simultaneously, neither mainstream or indie.
I certainly don't agree with everything Billy Corgan says but if there's anyone in music right now who's got the most right to say it - it's Billy Corgan.
Im a Grunge/Punk songwriter in my 20's. So I really appreciate the industry insights from people like Billy. It's a lot easier making a living as an independent musician now a days. You can make a living online with only about 3000 fans & never even have to play a show. Good times we're living in.
That last point was sharp. I was one of those high school kids that had only ever seen books and music that arrived on the mainstream conveyor belt. I got home late from a McJob and turned on the music TV thing we have in Australia called Rage and there was this angry, cheap black-and-white clip of a young guy hitting car wrecks in a junkyard with a sledge hammer. I remember thinking "Eh, that's what the big kids are into.." and caught myself, holy crap, i'm 17! I am one of the big kids! It was Black Flag, 'Drinking and Driving'. It set my head on fire, i thought nobody but me hated fuckwit drivers and had never heard anyone else even mention the issue. A few years later all the Indie stuff like Nirvana started being signed and i'm ashamed to admit if that hadn't happened i would never have known, i could have sailed through to 30 without the licence to breathe that alternative music/books/movies gave me.
I experienced pretty much the same thing except in the 90's when that was supposed to be less prevelant. Nirvana never resonated with me much, but a band called Smashing Pumpkins did. Changed everything for me.
Music in general i think has suffered the same as several other art forms. Over-saturation. The internet and music channels and ipods. So much to choose from and very little stands out. Rock is also an elder now, starting in the early 50s, theres only so much that can be evolved until its just a Led Zeppelin cover band and a grunge revival. That being said, there are young bands doing great stuff; the days of huge bloated rock stars are over, thats not necessarily a bad thing.
Only problem with the indie scene becoming mainstream is that, eventually, some element of selling out and compromise will happen. It can't be avoided. When you get bigger and deal with larger album sales, recording advances, promotional campaigns, etc., the attitude and "business model" you had at the indie level will get warped into something else. It's like that telephone game, where the original message gets corrupted into something else at the end of the line.
absolutely correct. Additionally viral spread can only go so far. For a band to truly become and "Arena" caliber you have to have large collections of fans and the model that Billy is talking about doesn't always have the reach necessary to reach that level of stardom. True mega acts have a formula that can be replicated - and the indy rise to fame doesn't conform to a formula that can be replicated. This independent rise he discusses might expose talent, but at some point it will be require capital investment to really take it to the next level. A world tour doesn't pay for itself - and no bank will loan that type of capital - someone has to front the initial bill. That capital investment automatically changes the game.
mmm81 m I feel like we need another music movement to destroy the mainstream musical shit that is spewing on the radio every two seconds. It's always the same songs. The same dull, simple lyrics a five-year-old can come up with. (And Understand) And it's always the same mindless artists. Now you just need to look hot for them to put you on a stage. Where did the talent go? Where did the originality go? Right in the trash. We need to start a musical revolution to put an end to mainstream music. There is no music industry any more. There is no Hollywood. With that being said, #FuckMainstreamMusic
He's projecting a lot here. There are some great songwriters out there but unlike Cobain & Corgan himself they are not being financially backed by labels. No or limited financial backing means extremely limited exposure, limited touring if any, limited people with industry expertise in your camp = No success. Everything costs money. People stopped buying music. There is no money.They potter away in obscurity. Due to piracy and the industries follow up consequence of taking no risk a lot of the best contemporary songs are being played in bedrooms...and that's where they'll stay.You want to make a bit of money in music now here's some hints - look great, target tween girls or the gay community with your music. Follow a trend, hop to the next trend when it turns up. Seek to maximise profits in every endeavour for it won't last long, then move onto the next thing. Get sponsorship from corporate brands, wear their clothes, show their products in your videos etc. (aka sell out). Keep things simple. Don't stand for anything, unless it carries overwhelming popular support from the public, then ride that bitch to gravy town.Or you could just stay true to yourself and keep plugging away. It's a risk but you should end up feeling more fulfilled whether you break big or not.
+SupesCoob Let me slightly elaborate - there are great talents out there but they are vastly outnumbered by people who simply "think" they're great. Either prematurely or delusional. And unfortunately in some respects - there is no longer an effective filter in place to sort out the ripe from the undeveloped.
+SupesCoob The 'filter' you are looking for is simple. Its the innovators. The innovators will be recognized by the youth and artists first, misunderstood by the mainstream is another indicator. I see where Billy is coming from but this is basically Art History. Next great innovation will likely happen with WW3. Or the impending financial collapse of the US. Or the ascent of Russia/China. Or a tech innovation via VR. It WONT be via Pop music written by Swedish men performed by stylish kids whose resume starts with Disney.
people still buy music .. alot even the decline in music sales wasn't because of some pretentious reasoning like "oh god, no one appreciates it anymore" but because of corporate cunts taking too much for music, hence Indie became big.
And now I'm gonna continue to record my songs hoping that one day I'll get to perform them haha. You know how hard it is to find inspired musicians who are kinda ok with what I do?
I have much catching up to do with music from the past. Only now am I going and digging up music from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, early 2000s mostly with some stuff within the last few years and giving them a deep listen. Back when these albums came out I was either not born or really young to understand or even attempt to understand their meaning. Now I have the opportunity to really delve deep into music from years gone by and see what I find there. I'm not against new music but I'll mostly be too busy with the old stuff. If the music of today is truly good then it will stand the test of time and I'll probably get to it years from now. There's no reason to rush since it's not going anywhere as I'm catching up on the music from the past.
The spirit of rock isn't in rock anymore, not even in "rap/hiphop." Hell even "gangsta rap" has become a mockery of a category not unlike when punk "evolved" into "pop punk." He's also right saying that in this day in age when talent is pretty damn difficult to hide, the next revoultionary artist in music would be damn hard to miss. The fact is, there is no such thing at the moment. We're all just content with the latest musical regurgitation to add to the soundtrack of our daily routine.
He's referring to massive artists that completely changed the game like The Beatles and Nirvana, and I have to agree with him, there hasn't been any massive artist like that in at least the past ten years
Great words from a great thinker...That "One" person he speaks of that won't have to bow down to a company, voice their message, do what they want how they want...is an artist I feel who has done just that is Immortal Technique. If you haven't stopped to hear his message in the form of hip hop, your missing out.
2:48 And he was right! The "underground" is the new mainstream. Free of commercial pressure, can play whatever music they want whenever they want and still manage to find their own audience and thrive from that.
I agree. Mainstream killed itself by not thinking outside the box and only signing bands that either sound close to other popular artists or found artists that are only palatable for a 13 year old with the attention span of a nat. "Indie" label’s popularity rose from the internet and capitalized the dysfunction of mainstream. Now there so many bands and so many music circles out there that if there were a rock legend yet to be found, it would be hard for that person to be heard.
ive been saying the same thing about the nostalgia-soaked culture that’s arisen in the past couple decades. all things are good in moderation, but at this point it’s an overindulgence and an ignorance of the present. there’s no way that hasn’t been damaging.
I feel like in the mid '90s to early '00s, Warp Records in the UK with acts like Boards Of Canada, Squarepusher, Aphex Twin and Autechre, reflect almost exactly what Billy is suggesting here. They were able to sell millions upon millions of records, although their music was new and innovative but at the same time a bit unknown and definitely unforeseen. Artists from Thom Yorke of Radiohead and Skrillex to underground deep house artists throughout the world have cited at least one of these artists as influences on their work, showing their far reaching influence. The cycle of dependancy on new innovative types of music repeats itself every 20 or so years. The '50s see rock and roll start to boom with Elvis, '70s see the rise in punk, the '90s see a rise in electronic, so what the fuck are the '10s gonna hold then? I feel like, as Billy's said in past interviews, that we've pushed every possible angle of music we can, and its too late to really think outisde the box because it's already been done before. But then again, let's not lose hope, maybe something new will come about within the next 5 years...
Oceania was a pretty awesome album, and I don't think he did a bad job on Zeitgeist or Machina1&2, either. Maybe I'm just a fanboy, but he's still spot-on about the current state of music.
Your Absolutely right in a way. Music is supposed to touch the soul and bring emotion, whether it be happy or angry. Todays artist I my opinion are missing passio and dedication (including me). The 70's and 80's and were the peak of music for Rock. The dedication that was put in was well proportioned and more influential.
I agree, and I will try and make my own music, new kind of rock, withy own band and see how far we can get. I live near Austin, tx so that's an advantage.
I don't understand why that 'third way' is not the indie culture already. I mean, what is Jens Lekman doing if not doing his own thing and getting the albums out there? Or Animall Collective?
+Daniel Sacilotto I've never heard of those bands, and that is the point Billy is trying to make. At some point in the 60s, 70s and 90s the BEST music in the world became the MOST Popular and Successful Music in the world.
maybe you do, but the point I was trying to make was that america needs to get their shit together in making their own music. I don't know if it's the industry, or what but something needs to happen here and in England.
i agree that the majority don't, but there are lots of us who do. personally i like french and german music like Eths, Die Toten Hosen and Rammstein. and if im honest i dont really mind where the music comes from as long as it doesn't sound fake or mainstream. but i suppose i also really like languages so i would want to hear them anyway
A lot of kids compensate for their lack of ability with a High&Low rangey gain, IMHO; I know because I'm one of those people. That boost in sustain can make shreading that much easier, partially because the tone's too muddled as well. We're sort of reaching a stage where metal is a bit overly dominant in the wrong context these days. Not in terms of popularity, but tonally and ideologically. I actually think Yngwie is right for once; we do suck. We need some more 'old' Weezer-style lyrics, too.
41 year young Gen xer over here still trying to get my music out. I agree with you totally. I wont give up. We need a tamer version of Ziggy Stardust - to be that good get ting the attention of a more homogenized music listeners. Who would be information and new idea resourceful. Someone not afraid with an honesty agenda to form this underground 3rd independent party. Ill do it.
Unauthorized downloads are a huge problem, I'll agree. But I don't share your "optimism". The Brave New World that has emerged has made it both more difficult and easier for artists to make a profit. Instead of making as much revenue selling LP's, EP's and singles, they often have to be more creative at selling merch, promoting shows, generating views on media sites for ad-sharing and other methods. It's a good thing these avenues are available via the Web. It's not as bad as it seems.
I'm from Cananada eh? But were right next door and I've only heard of one of the bands you just mentioned. LOL And you Americans always forget about Canada. You do your research though. I think with rock n roll it's just been a really, really slow death. Now I think it's dead as a doorknob. But that doorknob still turns. It's just needs a little grease. And "Hey, hey, my, my. Rock n roll can never die" said Neil young. Huh hem! Who was Canadian by the way. Thank you very much. LOL
I think he's pretty spot on considering this age of absolutely no influentail musicians. Different, and maybe better versions of what was (depending on your personal taste), but no-one spawning a big following within the business. The 90's were great in that way. In every way compared to now actually. Not going to whine about that; just happy I was around to take it in. Back then bands still worked their asses off for years on end building and practising "a sound". Today all that really comes to surface is what the bigger companies think you want to hear, and that whole side of the business seems to have lost it's nerve to dare and take some chances. On the other hand, Im sure theres more good music coming out every week than there ever was before, but because everybody is able to record and release tunes, it has gotten so much harder to find the gems. Which are sure to be hidden way, way under the top of the iceberg that is the music business today. It's fairly interesting, and pretty depressing. Well, at least we have some good decades to go back and dive into head first.
I don't think it's any band just yet. I think it's going to be one of those bands that seemingly come out of nowhere & just blow it all up with awesome music & a message that's so simple but so revolutionary in that it's a catalyst for a social change of perception. One that shows ppl the way to freedom is not new clothes, shiny cars, expensive shoes, & material wealth, but what's within the individual person. You don't have to be wealthy to "be somebody". The current social mindset seems to be one of materialism, selfishness, instant gratification, & disposable culture. I think a future band will turn all that around & help make a change. I call my music trash rock, so it's very unlikely that anyone would even like it. Besides, he said it would probably be in India or china or something, not America! Which makes sense, as American culture is very commercial, capitalist & consumer oriented! No one would want to hear trash rock!
+TheFutureKing as meaningless as the grammys may be, arcade fire won album of the year in 2011. that's about as mainstream as you can get. plus, if you search the band here on youtube, you'll see they have like two dozen songs with well over a million views. that's also about as mainstream as it gets. the fact that you've never heard an arcade fire song says less about their mainstream status as it does about your musical ignorance. when david bowie and bruce springsteen and elton john all say arcade fire is the best band out there right now, that too makes you about as mainstream as you can get.
Haha my first post was a response to a general biased. Then you respond to me with a disagreement. I didn't ask for a debate but I'm intrigued by what you are disagreeing with exactly. I will say that I find what Billy has to say very much within the realm of theory mixed with his personal experiences and observations. It's all open ended really with some interesting points.
South Africa, Die Antwoord. I listened to them and told a friend to check it out on youtube. He said he has never heard of them and they prob. only have a few people that have hit their videos. The first one he pulled up had 5 million views. I am 55 years old and cant understand if this is the kind of thing Billy is talking about what do you think?????
I think the people who produced this video just turned on the camera and then went to lunch, leaving Corgan alone to ramble for a couple of hours. Then they probably came back, realized the lens cap had been left on, fixed it, and then popped in another tape and let him go for another couple of hours and then uploaded this footage.
Well, my point is that art nowadays is changing our culture as much as before, but not in a way that's as obvious as the preceding decades. We don't have to have the record companies feeding us bullshit anymore, or at least not as much. Maybe it's just that RU-vid's become a cluster of small communities which I am a member of, but the consensus is that the mainstream music industry just plain sucks. As long as that mentality's there, we'll just go underground and listen to what's really good.
He's not talking about a band that will necessarily become mainstream. Listen to what he said. He even says they're not gonna "bow to the indie god, nor the mainstream god" What he's saying is that someone will come along to revolutionize music. Just like Kurt Cobain did. Just like Jimi Hendrix did.
You should all check out Vocaloid, Hatsune Miku - The disappearance of Hatsune Miku, it's a massive thing in Japan at the moment. You know when Billy's on about the next big movement being from China or India or somewhere? This is what I think it will be...vocaloid, from Japan, it's insane.
Maybe thats the problem, I listen to a lot of Japanese bands and I don't understand Japanese. Why? Because music is a universal language my friend, its not all about analyzing and singing along to the lyrics. Music is, and should be much more than that, especially in the alternative and independent world
Kurt was wearing "grunge is dead" t-shirts by 1993. I have no idea if you're arguing something or agreeing with me, or what point you're trying to make by stating the obvious about nu-metal. I'm guessing you misread everything I said.
If it is his point to say there is no class of musicians that are challenging the current status of the music industry, then I would agree with that. The aggression and thought process of being creative & making something drastically different seems to be lacking in rock. Challenging trends, fashion, ideologies and song structure just doesn't really exist. He touches on aspects of that, which I agree with, but the problem isn't the mainstream.
Well most music definitely starts out underground, I suppose depending how you define it. But what's the point of art if it doesn't change culture? I think thats Billys point.
I don't know if it is due to all the edits, but his point didn't make any sense. I don't know if I really follow him on his point about the past 10 years of rock. Yah I think it has been hard to watch, but with bands like Modest Mouse, Arcade Fire, & events like Coachella Fest. To me the indie scene has risen & become part of mainstream. Bon Iver & deadmau5 won a Grammys. Fall Out Boy talking about Lifetime or The Smiths. All these things go against his point. No?
...depending on who you talk to. To you, it was the mid-2000's. To me, it is alive, but not like the 90's, where it was on fire. To this guy I know who produces alt-country records, it was about 2000. It is really difficult to generalize about decades in music.
I just think people should that they themself like making themselves the primary audience.This form of creativity is more authentic and possibly contemporary
