Unfortunately intelligence is resented as ego, when we should actually accept and learn. Judgement is the opposite of empathy, and most people judge because they're insecure. Security is the base model for empathy and learning. Finding security allows everyone to accept the more important intelligent people and their view points, unfortunately the majority are insecure in themselves and can't except others
Corgan is one of the greats. He can play like Hendrix, he can shred, he can strum an acoustic guitar, his song writing versatility is amazing. And he wrote some of the all time great alternative rock albums, and he's still making really good music.
One of the greatest songwriters and guitar players of his generation. I was in my teens during the Smashing Pumpkins peak. They were extraordinary in the early to mid 90's. Siamese Dream & Melon Collie and the Infinite Saddness albums back to back. Not many people can say that at one moment in their career they were in the biggest band on the planet. He legitimately can. Doesn't matter if it lasts a month or 5 years. To be able to say that for any amount of time is crazy.
No matter what heights you reach, it always hurts to come down. No amount of success can prevent that pain, which is why Billy has so much. In fact, I would argue that being average and staying that way is far less painful then having it all and losing it all
Tyler Durden no he is a person who plays deppressing music u know like all rock musicans. Mainstream media wouldnt have a clue who these musicans really are or how intelligent they are. Marylin Manson prob 1 of the most intelligent muscians out there. But we cant have ppl like that have a voice in the world where greed is god
Fuck you and your mainstream media cliché BS. You're ON mainstream fucknozzle. I'm sure you trust what, an underground media podcast from a truth telling guy named phil the conspiracy theorist by night and Walmart shelf stocker by day to bring you the truth? Mainstream Media have long shown the intelligent side of Manson, you're not special or more well informed because you know better than mainstream media. Get your head out of your own ass
@@nycstandsup exactly, his gigant bald head emmits fucking ultrabald energy and its hard for people with hair to get his brain banter because we in fact dont have ultrabald engery+ very very
The problem with being that level headed, is that you're reaching comedian levels of being an asshole...and an ego maniac, which is justified be him writing and performing his own legendary music. His band mates ate sour grapes, but honestly, he could've done it with any other group he formed.
I think you’re missing it. He’s got a good head on his shoulders and very self aware and all that. I’ve studied him for years and really there’s 2 Corgans. And the one you get depends on who is talking to him. Joe is an overall nice guy so Corgan is down to earth and level with him, but when dealing with fake yucky journalists that would destroy you for a buck, he refuses to play the game and just feeds them a lot of bullshit.
Smashing Pumpkins was my first concert. I was 13, and my friend had backstage passes, because her older brother was part of the crew that set up the stages and such. Me and my friend ended up on top of equipment boxes on the side of the stage, ROCKING OUT, and mid-way through, Billy and Darcy gave a stage hand their guitar picks and guitar strings, just for us. I will never forget that small act of kindness to two little girls who barely belonged at his show, let alone back stage.
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - Hunter S Thompson
I love Smashing Pumpkins. I dropped my first release, and some people have noted that they want to go into 'Disarm' at certain points in the song. Just the idea that some one could listen to a song I wrote, and then at least think of something as great as 'Disarm'. open.spotify.com/album/3n49hDR4mt6niPYaIjISmK
I still remember the first time i heard that line, and that opening drum fill. I fell in love INSTANTLY. I literally knew in that one moment "this is my new favorite band"
Depending on the label the song belongs to, it could cost your radio station upwards of $10,000 to play it which is why they have a fuck ton of commercials. I have Sirius xm and love it over traditional radio.
The zeitgeist thing Billys talking about is how stars stay relevant. Most stars have a shelf live of 4 - 6 years. To stay relevant, the artist has to be able to read the changing environment and adapt to that.
It's why in 80s it was impossible to heat the cure, the smiths, echo and bunnymen, XTC, the pixies.........impossible to hear on radio. They were never on.
He is a great musician. Love Smashing Pumpkins. And it's almost like capitalism gone wrong when it comes to artists not getting a lot of money, it's the greedy music businesses that gets a lot of money.
I agree and I also get the idea that he is running circles around Joe's brain at this point. Not because Joe is dumb, but because Billy is really good at using metaphors and has very smart insight into an industry that may be similar but not the same. The music industry from the 70s to the late 2000s had honed itself onto a pure profit machine, that was able to use an artist as a drill bit in every thinkable way, until they became so dull that you replaced them.
Schools have finally started incorporating personal finance into upper-level classes, particularly for those that don't show a propensity for mathematics and won't likely choose it as an area of study later on. I think it should be socially unacceptable to allow an 18 yr old to sign a student loan or credit card application if they haven't been given any education on the meaning and implications within those contracts. To simply say you'll have to pay this back is weightless to a kid that's been pressured their entire life to go to college and become a citizen of commerce or be labeled as non-contributory to society. I don't suggest it should be illegal because when we ask the government to be responsible for doling out all of the consequences for inhumane behavior it alleviates the consciousness we have on a daily basis on how our actions affect others and means we villanize a disembodied power structure when we step outside societies guidelines rather than reflect on our actions or the reasons we got cast out.
capoman1 he failed w/ Smashing Pumpkins, er, the original band. If he had moved out of his own way maybe SP would still be a decent band like Tool or Radiohead still are. Siamese Dream, to this date, is one of the BEST alternative rock albums ever.
Well that is what I mean MUN. If you define "success" as "continually releasing popular albums" like Tool or Radiohead did, very few of our favorite artists were successful. Pretty much every artist is known for their original album and maybe one more if they are likely. I think that is success; to have your original and sophomore album contain hits. Bands like Tool or RHCP are an exception IMO. Most bands fade away. Because you have your whole life to write your first album (that is why the first album is usually the best) and the second you still have some hunger left. After that you are rich and famous and no longer the same person. So I don't expect much after that.
I think the main thing that makes him feel like a failure has to do with what he was saying about how the industry pretty much owns your ass if you aren't independent. Meaning like even if he wanted to break out on his own and do his own thing he can't because they literally own his earnings along with many other artists. Like he was saying what they do with like pop artist. If they're also in a commercial or a movie or something. Anything. The music still earns money from it because of the contracts.
This was one of my favorite interviews. Billy is so thoughtful and thought provoking. Also, the way he articulates and his ability to be retrospective is beyond words.
I actually live in a room full of mirrors but they aren't there to really look into. I was just fascinated with how many times light could be bounced around
Critics were way too harsh on it, I really liked it - not my fav Pumpkins album but it has some great songs. I also remember a lot of negative comments about the drum machine they used in songs - "how dare they use an electronic device!!" - seems a little ridiculous nowadays.
I might listen to it again now. When it came out I thought it repetitive and empty, like they'd lost their mojo for some reason. Very sad, as I was a Pumpkins completist and loved everything they'd done to that point.
I just made a video breaking down what Billy is talking about. Very interesting when you dive deeper into this!! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-77GVsPbYOHU.html
@1993 wrong. many are forced into never having regular lives, 24/7 global touring of just nonstop playing and traveling and meeting with people. then there's the actual practicing, recording, writing. and then finding time to have an actual life to continue to write music that is relatable to what normal human beings actually do.
Most artistic types who try to explain the process of making art are impossible to follow. Billy explains it with verbal precision that shows his genius in a way a Neanderthal like me can understand. He, most assuredly, is NOT an idiot.
Not into Pumpkins but enjoyed this interview and the other bits I've heard. Corhan is switched on and has made me want to listen to his music now...well done both
This interview kinda brings me back to my adolescence: a child of twelve, listening to Siamese dream on repeat, and absolutely loving the "Melancholy..." album, etc. Well, Billy, you definitely made an impression, and I'm thankful for it. Great interview.
He made 2 of the 90's greatest rock albums, Siamese and Mellon Collie. He made his mark in music and has nothing to feel bad about. Probably could have hung it up sooner, but undoubtedly he was very uniquely talented and his music at its peak is unforgettable.
It's ironic that Joe Rogan would later sell out to Spotify and give up control after listening to Billy go through the trappings of the music industry.
This didn’t age well because joe basically has still done exactly what he wants and now his podcasts are back online. There was only a short window where spotify was jerking him around a bit.
The music industry really is pretty messed up. I was working with some big names in the 90s and have seen how they control people with drugs, dodgy contracts and serious intimidation. One of my good friends in the industry once told me that if he ever dies, not to believe that it was a suicide. A few weeks later, Kurt Cobain killed himself, and I've always wondered about that. A few weeks after that my friend's industry drug dealers committed suicide. A few weeks after that the leaders of the band went into hiding. It's a seriously messed up world.
Many many young people in the past have gone to Nashville with their song book full of their original songs and end up missing.🎶 the songs , however we're not missing
1993 Yeah, I’m sure any other product that makes money worldwide like Bollywood or Kpop isn’t corrupted just as much. It’s human nature & greed. It has nothing to do with ‘zionism’ or any of that bullshit. Stop thinking like a child. Learn to think critically & you won’t have the problem of looking through a keyhole, intelligence wise...
What Billy i saying is so true for so many people. Especially when it comes to a "hall of mirrors" projecting our own insecurities and failures unto others. Failure in life really does make you humble.
Interesting what he said about not being able to separate the artist's personality facets. I always thought of him as kind of a weird, edgy dude, but seeing him talk here really makes him seem like a very humble, down-to-earth person.
Wooah, easy Carl, there's plenty of bullshit on Rogan's show.. I know what you mean, but Joe has flip flopped in the past, proving that there is indeed bullshit here.
Gish is an amazing rock record. Billy, no matter what you think of him personality-wise, is an amazing guitar player. Great leads and a natural mindset for phrasing in a song.
Don't get hung up on guitar chops, as great as they are, what's special is how Billy says something, expresses himself by singing and playing guitar both rhythm and lead.
BC and SP are amazing. Thank you for all the happiness you've brought to me. You're music is beautiful, great and will be around forever! I've seen you all so many times back in the 90's and it's always been awesome! 1 of my top 3 favorite bands!
Excellent interview and Corgan is so good at explaining his evolved understanding of the business, and Joe is perfect at making that happen; bringing it out because he’s truly interested.
ALL musicians should have proper knowledge of Copyright Law and its many posibilities before signing a record deal. Labels just take massive advantage of their ignorance.
A lot of labels won’t let an artist sign without turning over ownership of masters. Independence is costly but will definitely make more in the long run.
Drain Bamage this is why prince changed his name to an emblem and would write "slave" on his face in public and in meetings with WB execs. He reclaimed his name when that contract was over. But after that, he owned all his music and blazed a trail for others to get the same. That's why so many musicians from so many genres held him in such high praise. ..that and the fact he was a badass musician, playing 27 different instruments. Speaking of multi talented, I hear this guy , Billy Corgan, played all the instruments in one of their albums because he got tired of all the conflicts they were having at that time. But that drove the wedge deeper. ..that and billy's crush on the chick who didn't feel the same way about Billy. ..Is it Darcy? icr
The Grateful Dead were way the fuck ahead of their time when they allowed fans to tape their shows. It created a hype of its own around them and deadheads would pass tapes to their friends they would hear it and create new dead heads. Then they would go to their shows and when you're touring non stop you create a band of gypsys following you around the country.
It was cool to hear Billy talking about how; when you really love an artist, you want to really sit and pay attention to anything new they put out. To hear whats been motivating their new music.
@@CN073 Chris Barnes would be a perfect guest for Rogan, the new place he has would just look like a fog covered space that could be anywhere the way Chris enjoys most of his day chain caining it.
@@nobodynever7884 probably magnums_ferrari, knowing me I'd end up covered via an article and/or news clip that begins with the classic "A Florida man..." all the best your way and to all
12:00 Rush experienced this after Caress of Steel and right before 2112. The label wanted hits, so they gave them a 20 minute song taking up the entire first half of the vinyl. It would go multi platinum and the label never bothered them again
Mr. Ouija same. It was funny at the time, but it made me feel sick once I had time to mull it over on a long, cold journey to the next town. It’s not so funny.
As someone who worked at a label for years (but no longer does) ...What nobody seems to understand is that the artist and their music is/are the “product” of the label. It is no different than if the label were a furniture company and the music were a chair. They are looking for the best way to sell the chair and and make the most money they can from it. The “entity” of the label is not a human with human values. It is just a business. What does happen through the work a label does to market the music is the artist gains the ability to start making money from ticket sales, merchandise, and other revenue streams. To vilify labels for gaining an equity position in Spotify or other new forms of music distribution is useless. Of course they would make a deal with streaming services so that the business entity can survive the long haul. That is smart business. A smart artist (or their representatives) is obligated to understand the short term and long term issues going in. In the short term the label will lose a ridiculous amount of money by investing in everything that makes the artist and their music the best it can be because every single person (artist camp included) is working to make the artist win. In the vast majority of cases a couple of things happen: this will launch a career for an artist and they can make a very good living but would not be considered an “A list” artist, or the experience is short-lived and it is time for them to figure something else out - the label loses all the money invested and that is that. The artist had a real shot, it didn’t work, and the label never gets paid back. If the artist strikes a nerve and has success, everybody makes money… a LOT of money. The parties involved are either happy and rock on, or they want to renegotiate because, all of a sudden, those little percentage numbers are translated into big actual dollars and every single person involved thinks they should be getting more of the pie than the are currently getting. Even if everyone is extremely well-fed and have pie crumbles all over their shirts and faces. But, remember, these chairs may be selling really well…. but to the furniture company they are still just chairs. Nobody is twisting an artist’s arm to go to a major record company. An artist can choose the independent route and have great success, but they are taking all of the risk with them. All ways to success or failure have their pros and cons. An artist must be fully knowledgeable and comfortable with the path choose.
Bryan Frasher agree with all and well said. I worked in film/TV for years and it’s just business. It’s a very tricky one though because it’s the same conceptually, but creative human beings and their output are NOT chairs. And people consume the product with a different level of emotional involvement as a chair. I couldn’t deal with seeing and utilizing people as nothing but a commodity and had to bail. The games and dishonesty take over your mindset. But that’s my thing there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with it, in fact in a free society it’s how it has to be. That is, a business.
It seemed like Corgan's talking points understood that completely, despite his complaints. He knows he hit the lottery and isn't taking it for granted (in this talk anyway).
it seems like for the most part record labels invest in and even lose money on smaller bands that they know aren't going to sell more than 20-50K records because they need to control "cool". they need to be in control of what alternatives to fully mainstream music are being offered because if they aren't then there will be a larger platform for actual independent scenes, labels and artists to dictate what is authentic and "cool", making the homogenized mainstream rock the majors push seem all the more corny to the point that they can't convince anyone it's "cool" anymore. i don't think it's a matter of labels investing in a bunch of bands, throwing them all at the wall and seeing what sticks. for the most part bands that sell millions were selected to be pushed for stardom and the rest that get dropped while still in debt to the label were just casualties of the majors needing to keep their control on "cool". i doubt most of them are too upset about it though if they got to live out their rockstar dream on some level for a few years.
8:22 Adore is actually what got me into Smashing Pumpkins, I'm one of those who loved it! Back around the time when it was released, it was when I stopped being a child and became a teenager and my art taste truly started crystallising. Listening to The Eye on Lost Highway OST and watching the masterful Ava Adore video on Viva Zwei. Good times.
It’s kinda neat how in its current line up (it’s November 2022 as I comment this) that 3/4 of the band members are the originals from 1988. You see it more often in big name bands for some members to stick around, because there’s money to be made, but there are so many instances where you see a band that is the main lead singer and a bunch of replacement members. And while it’s still fun to hear the music you know and love, there’s just such a difference when the band is still who it was when you fell in love with it. An example I think of is Guns N Roses. Since their 2016 reunion you have the core guys together again with Slash, Axl and Duff. But then you think back to the period in time where it was just Axl and the replacements when he did a new album and had a few tours where it was just him from the band that everyone loved. And sure you’d maybe go see it but you couldn’t really say it was Guns N Roses. It’s really cool when you can see guys stay friends through the decades or if they have a falling out be able to come back together again.
I’m not a huge Pumpkins fan. But Billy is a talented and smart guy. And in the right capacity, a GREAT interview. Wanna know more about how the music business works? Check this clip out-it’s very insightful and touches on subject’s successful artists are usually leery to talk about. His honesty and candor are refreshing. One thing that Billy doesn’t elaborate on here-not only is there a huge discrepancy in the income division between the song writer and the ‘band’ re: royalties, he fails to mention that almost ALL recoupable advances come from the BAND’S royalty account. A song writer will generally (but not always) sign what is called a publishing deal, a separate contract and deal giving a different company a portion of his songwriting percentage. In turn they ‘control’ the catalogue and collect any royalties in his behalf. They also do things like generate revenue for your songs by placing them in commercials, movies or suggest cover versions by other artists. What he didn’t seem to touch on (probably due to time limitations) was that this money is basically his alone (which he DID say) and that typically the writer also receives a publishing advance, therefore putting him immediately in a wealthier position that his band mates, right out of the starting gate. That advance is usually typically his alone-although in some cases, writer’s are convinced to ‘invest’ it back into the business (the band) to further help get it off the ground. Bands like U2 and Van Halen split the publishing and song credits equal ways (or used to) and probably did what I suggested. Regardless, once that initial publishing advance is made (as an enticement to sign with a publishing company) there usually aren’t anymore advances (though there can be). And with a hit record, that initial recoupable publishing advance can be paid back very quickly-leaving the rest of the publishing income stream piling up and untouched...and often sent to one person alone. The royalties are paid out quarterly and it can be a lot of money...it can really add up. Now, the typical BAND record deal was/is between $1 to $2 per album sold. Sounds like a lot, right? Well, consider THIS: every dollar the record company spends on the act is recoupable. Recording costs, producer’s fee and royalties, videos, photo shoots with word-famous photographers, stylists, wardrobe shopping, tour support, merchandise advances and even little things like the record company offering to take you out to dinner-even THAT’S almost always charged to a corporate Amex and then to the band’s royalty account. So sure, you hear of a new band getting a ‘million dollar’ advance (rare these days). Well, guess what? About half that advance is eaten up recording the debut album-and the labels always insist that you use a world class studio and known producer ($) so that money’s gone fairly quickly. Never mind that also-the band is liable for taxes on the full million. So let’s say that, from their million dollar advance, they paid out $500,00 to do the record, 30% is withheld for taxes, 5% attorney’s fee and 20% managers fee. How much is left? Do the math and be shocked at how little is left over, if any. And on top of that, IT’S ALL GOT TO BE PAID BACK BEFORE YOU SEE A DIME IN ROYALTIES. And every time you got to the label for an advance to do something (fly to L.A. and showcase for the industry, attend an awards show etc.) the label shells out the money, but you better believe that every dime is recoupable-flights and hotels for 4/5 etc. people, meals, cars etc. etc. etc. So this is why a band can go ‘Gold’ and often still be broke. Usually, money starts to roll in around at around Platinum (a million copies sold) status. And that has to be split 4-5 ways (dependant on the band). And the writer? Well, his statutory royalty (which Billy doesn’t fully clarify) is a government-mandated 9.1 CENTS PER SONG-for the writer alone. Let’s say there’s 11 songs on an album...that’s roughly a dollar per album sold that goes to the writer-that he doesn’t split with the band. And he’s taken maybe a $250,000 publishing deal advance and it’s paid back fast-leaving the rest as pure profit for him alone. And let’s say he uses that advance money to...oh, I don’t know...buy a house. If the band fails, then he walks away with at least SOMETHING. If the band succeeds, he receives riches far beyond any of his band mates. Ever notice on back’s of albums, why you’ll see multiple corporation names? Like the band might be signed to Universal but the Sony name is also there? It’s cause the artists might have signed with Universal for the record deal-but the publishing was snapped up by Sony, a completely separate entity. The competition to sign good writers is often fierce and that’s what other companies enter the fray and battle each other for the publishing rights-these days, it’s where the real money lies, as no really buys hard copies of music. Billy wasn’t exaggerating his claims-if anything, he is DOWNPLAYING the discrepancies.
Rick Rubin is a legend. He's the ultimate engineer and manager and musical shrink. So much talent he's been able to purge the greatness. He just has it. Great insight. Billy is sick intelligent. Regardless of profession, this very much applies. Once you become relevant and less vulnerable, that's your jumping off point.
I have much respect for people like Billy Corgan who speaks the truth regarding the music industry. I appreciate how he let's people know it's not all what it appears to be and many artists have exposed the truth regarding what happens in the entertainment industry. I once wanted to be a rock star like Amy Lee in Evanescence, but I feel relieved that the truth came out from those who already been in the game of lies. Thank you Billy Corgan for telling people what really goes on and I always loved you when I was a teen. It would be awesome if he had his own podcast
Billy is awesome. I can understand where he was saying that sometimes you need someone to act as a teacher, even if you feel like you have some good work under your belt that you have created. With almost anyone, the creative juices just start to get drained over time. Unless you are AC/DC or something, you don't want to create the same thing over and over. You have to start to look at things from outside perspectives to continue to create new things that feel fresh and relevant.
Why are labels needed these days? this is such a wonderful video because BC breaks down how the music biz works. I wish I had heard something like this 20 years ago. SP Rules!
Much respect to Billy Corgan. Recognizing your own limitations is a major growth point in an individual!!.. *Keep up the great work!!... Many more to come..
Great artists from Florida: Tom Petty, Lobo, Gram Parsons, Jim Morrison, The Outlaws, The Allman Brothers Band, 38 Special, KC and the Sunshine Band.....
Billy you are amazing, after 30 years I still love SP just as I did then, thank you for providing your art to enjoy and open/explore for my formidable years. Like Rogan, they are gems that helped form my lenses of life of which I am forever grateful (not sure you guys give yourselves enough credit for this, in a world of freaks it is very refreshing).
"Disarm" will always be one of my favorite song of any genre.....even as a teen it spoke volume to me... Would love to talk to Billy, he seems cool as fk
I loved the last line by Rogan: "They're dirty!" You said it, Joe. They're not just dirty, my friend...the DIRTIEST! In the documentary made about the Eagles, I remembered either Don or Glen talking about Irving Azoff: "He's Satan, but at least he's our Satan!"
