@@homodinaricus Think about Luwians. Culturally İonian, etnically Hitite. Same apllies here. Western Anatolians etnically Turkic but culturally Greeks.
@@homodinaricus A part of our ancestors are previous Romans, yes, but they are not the majority. Our DNA is made up of mostly Turkic DNA and the rest is shared between the Native Anatolian people and Romans (Romans being mostly Greek). For example, I have around %70 Turkic DNA, %15 (Eastern) Roman DNA and %15 Native Anatolian DNA. However, our culture has really mostly assimilated into our Middle Eastern and Balkan neighbours, I can't say anything about that. I try to maintain my own Turkic culture.
@@Egumen1 Your DNA is not even partially Turkic, not even 10% in most part of the country. The only Turkic thing is your language, you are Byzantines, even children knows these things.
I had the pleasure and the privilege of attending several byzantine secular music concerts of the late Christodoulos Chalaris, featured here (he passed away in 2019). At the time, he had the generous sponsoring of a bank, a steady orchestra, a charming venue and a regular performance schedule in the historic centre of Thessaloniki, Greece. Needless to mention all the things that have changed, collapsed or dissapeared since then. The sound is like the "twin sister" of the Greek Orthodox Church music (only in secular lyrics) and a precursor of the Greek Demotic Song, thus, quite familiar to a native listener, although, I admit, perhaps a little challenging for others. By the way, at 32:33 it's the "Epithaph of Seikilos" the oldest ancient greek musical composition found until now, perpetuated as a rather bittersweet "sympotic song".
It's sounds very similar to greek traditional music, both Language and melody. That' a sign of the historical continuity between medieval roman empire of the Greeks (Eastern Roman-Romania) and modern Greece. One nation, 2 different eras. Thanks for uploading my friend. Greetings from Athens!
In an ideal world the romans and the persians would have united and would have kept the peoples of the desert and the stepes at bay. We can only dream of that lol
The Wall of Semiramis (Σεμιράμιδος το τείχος), was written by the way, in Constantinople, the year 1843, so its rather Post-Byzantine. It is after all in the Post-Byzantine alboom of Halaris, Pandora, which is also amazing and I recomend it.
Just in time for my readings in Byzantine Philosophy. Terrific visuals to accompany the music -- takes me back to my history study abroad in Istanbul. The street music was phenomenal.
@@PlanSéquenceFilmArt For sure, and yes -- quite expensive. The opening chapters are already illuminating though. Probably a critical source for any serious student of the history of philosophy.
We know very well how byzantine music was sound like. Notations was first used already from 8th century. Halaris is working on manuscripts of Holy Mount Athos monasteries. This music is secular and influenced by Arabs and Persians of course but not at all by Ottomans. Even in early 20th century Smyrna and Constantinople music is not so “Turkish” it’s more “Balkan” like i could say and there is a huge difference for a trained ear. And also the “Who Is Brave And Fast” is “modern” sound more like 19th century or “dimotiko” because clarinet wasn’t an instrument possible to listen in Byzantine times.-
@@VitorEmanuelOliver Yes maybe. But if someone’s intention is to show a music in it’s original form he has to use instruments of the era. Sound of clarinet is completely different compared to sound of bag pipes. In Greece for example even bag pipes of land have differed sound than bag pipes of islands… Many scholars have objections about Halaris work and not without a reason. Anyway Haralis deceased in 2019 and his work will be judged by history.-
Lip your comments are right on point. But I would remove Arabic music put In place Indian music. But say they got heavy influence from Ancient Greek music. Persian also benefit from greek music. The Arab get their music from the Greeks thru the Byzantine transmission passage. As for ottomans they are a fraud
@@decorde-taccard so what if it was a manufactured term. The Byzantium term come from the name the man who build the first city. You can also use rum which refers to the Roman Empire which on the east was taken over by the Greek peoples
OR if you are familiar with the osmosis phenomenon then you can say Persian and Arab were influenced by the Greek. you can observe it in food/cousin. you need to go back further in time and analyse what instruments were used at the areas forementioned. just because Arab and Persian sound like this music it dies not mean its theirs. also look at the unique ERE music which is different that today's classical.
This is really amazing! I'm very familiar with the Byzantine Chant of the Orthodox Church. I had never heard any of the secular music from that culture until now. I love this!
It's just an interpretation. One song is also an epitaph song from the hellenistic period, the only piece of ancient greek music for which notation exists. We don't have musical notation from the eastern roman (byzantine) period regarding secular music. Only ecclesiastic music. So, any modern reconstruction has to go backwards guessing in the dark, with the only base being greek folk music (which of course has some sort of continuity).
This compilation is a great introduction to the work of Chris Halaris. Aside from the subtle instrumentation, the lead singers really shine, Giota Karanasiou in particular is incredibly strong and intense, she really brings it to another level!
I would disagree that the Byzantine Empire has been forgotten by western historians from my own interest and exploration of that world for the past 30 years, though most westerners only have a vague idea about it. Other empires certainly have been forgotten such as the Parthian Empire and the Empire of the Trebizond.
Even at its peak, the Byzantine Empire was only a 2nd class one when compared to that of, say, Alexander the Great's Empire (before the breakup by the Diadochi), Ancient Rome (Western and Eastern in 107 AD, before the partition by Constantine), the Umayyad Empire, Djenghis Khan's Empire and the British Empire.
La manière de nous transporter a cette épque-là e'est par moyen de la musique, qui nous transporte vers son esprit cultural, d'une manière très émouvante. La version de l'épitaphe de Seikilos est exceptionelle! Ce disque est le complément idéal pour les mosaïques de Ravenna, j'ai eu le privilège de les visiter. Mes compliments pour votre canal, c'est magnifique!!!
Thank you so much, I'm Italian and I also visited Ravenna a few years ago. As I wrote in the information of the video, these photos were taken by me and Kuro Silvia. Looking at them together with the music we thought they were perfect!
@@MusicaMedievale Merci par ta réponse, je suis Argentin, mais je t'ai écrit en français parce que ìo non so parlare italiano. Cette phrase semble le langue parlée par Salvatore, il personaggio de Il nome della rosa. Sobre todo if iI write quelques mots in english and castellano.
Greetings from Turkey, this sounds all too familiar. Very similar to Turkish Classical Music. I think I'm going to open a bottle of rakı now. To your health dear neighbors.
That book changed my life. I have it in 6 versions: paperback, e-book, 2 audiobooks, leather-bound signed copy, and a French version. Something about living at the end of one world and the beginning of another that hits home in 2021.
If you want to know i came to this etheral and magic music trough a very changing ÉPREUVE in my late life. After a major opération my sense were CHAMBOULÉS. In the recovering time while still in and out i witness this music in my being,ear sound and light while in my hospital bed. A live concert that i never heard before in my life. Si merveileux si riche avec un arrière plan Bleu Royal.J' ai été totalement transporté Depuis je n' est eu que de cherche que d' en trouvé l' origine. I found here the closest emanation now and i apreciate it now verry much. Wish you are here! Please listen to Sacred Byzantine Chants piece # 3.
i want to correct my recommendation about my musical transportation experience. The exact album is Greek Music of Byzantine Empire specialy track #3 which is the closest to my advance vision.In other word i i heard it in me before i discover it on youtube! i am shure i am not alone. CIAO!
Gracias por compartir, I see its quite polemical if it is or not true to the origin, pfff the important thing is in some way this music was not lose and of course is a modern interpretation based on currently sources. :)
When we talk about early music, before the Baroque period, the only way to play it is by interpreting it. We will never know how the melodies or arrangements really sounded, so there's no a right or a wrong way. We can only investigate, study and, above all, find similarities in popular music, handed down orally for centuries and direct descendant of early music.
@@JASmith-oy8db i suspect this channel has somewhat of a rainbow world view. The realities of human nature are probably a bit too non-pc for comment. Luckily the listeners don't mind talking truth 👍🏻
@@smoath What is it with you people that you always hide behind some form of „but I am not allowed to say it“ It is neither controversial nor a brave statement to say that history has brutal and cruel sides too. This I-am-the-victim-of-pc-culture-mentality is becoming just a coping mechanism for boring thinking.
@@johnsinclair4621 three straw men you attack: controversial, brave and victim. All invented by you. If you really are looking for interesting thought, then meditate on how you projected these unclaimed characteristics.
Very interesting, cause it sounds literally Turkish ^_^ Seems that eastern culture is similar between/regarding Ottomans and Byzantines, as first ones succeeded the others?
to me this music is just surreal - it has far more arabic motifs than I thought it would have - after all the byzantine empire was christian, and spoke primarily greek. I would have thought that they would have sounded more mediterranean and medieval.
because this is anything but byzantine music. The techniques and genres used in the pieces of this video are mostly from turkish/persian makam music. There is even a piece with a taksim intro (3rd piece) which is incredibly authentically turkish.
It's sound similar to XIX century music, but far different to what we think was ancient Greek music. Apparently, some changes took place through late antiquity or Middle Ages.
Yes, it does make sense because we have no way of knowing how the byzantine era music was since there were no notation. I am assuming the artists interpeted the greek folk music which developed alongside turkish music in the same period of time. You can hear a lot of makams and even taksims which are unique to turkish music in this playlist.
@@MusicaMedievale I can't find much about him, exept that he has a very good presence on streaming-platforms liek spotifiy and itunes. Don't get me worng, I like this music so much, but I always read that there is nearly no record about secular byzantine music,, so I was wondering.
50:00 is this pypsy/roma music. Perhaps that style is a relict from old rajasthani music, and at this times the gypsies still played that old india singing?
lmao nonsense logic. They did nothing with the turks other than emppowering them and inviting them into europe. The only ones worse than the byzantines in opening the doors to the turks are the dumbass serbians who attacked the byzantines when they were fighting them. But if the Bulgars or Serbians god rid of the rotted byzantine empire both would have done a better job because they didn't monopolize all aspects of society by the state. Only failed asian countries like Byzantines and Chinese dynasties do shit like that.
The Byzantines called themselves Romans, the Russians are considered heirs of the Romans, Moscow is Rome III, if the Romans would be making music today, they would wear Adidas track suits and make Hard Bass
@@xunqianbaidu6917 Russian heritage of some Byzantine aspects can be seen in their sacral architecture, quite a lot of Byzantine princesses were actually married into the Rurikid dynasty as far as I know (not sure about the Romanoffs though, no Byzantine imperial blood then I guess). Then there is the whole Orthodoxy thing. After Constantinople fell the greatest bastion of Eastern Orthodoxy indeed became Moscow. And the Russian state also inherited the form of government from Byzantium, a pseudo-theocratic Basileus/Tzar/dictator focused autocracy, which still persists till this very day. As scandalous as it may seem, there actually are some good reasons to view Russian empire as the descendant of the Roman Empire. That said though, i think there should be boundaries as to what is actually Roman and what isn’t. The Byzantines were I think the last to have that privilege. The Franks had their (not) Holy, (not) Roman (not)Empire, the Turks even had their Rum, and Russians also claim to be Roman Empire... Russian nation is far from the Greek or Latin one and are legitimate descendants of Byzantines only in a dream, but there is SOME continuity...
@@thedisintegrador Byzantine Empire was a collection of city-states under the metropolis of Constantinople. People had autonomy in their cities. The Basileus had no real authority on cities outside the Theodosian Walls besides military and tax collecting from each one. I would argue it's much more Democratic than today's fake Democracies(elective monarchies). And only Greeks remember the 29th of May, so we are the continuation of the Basileia twn Rwmaiwn and not some barbaric mixed tatarovaragian murderers.
@@user-nr3sd4dg3y byzantine could be influenced by persians, i do not know about that however ottoman music was heavily influecned by persian music, and later co-developed alongside byzantian music. Both merged I'd say.
@@MusicaMedievale Very sure, distinction between religious and secular is something new in the last 200 years... In ancient all aspect of all was religious: food, dress,music and etc
@@rexcroatorum7654 Yeah of course. Every aspect of life for ancient folks was connected to myths and gods : dances, music, foods, clothes, and all aspect of lives had something to do with gods, myths, and sacred. The essence of music came from gods for those people. It was the sound of the universe. the dance was the move and motion of the universe which gave power and meaning to people. anyhow in ancient era, nothing was secular...
@@nemesis1055 Mate i see your point but its just not true. It was mostly spiritual/religious music, but poeple were also having feasts, drank in taverns and nobody wanted to listen to gospels there.
What's more likely? That Turkish soldiers etc. heard byzantine or Greek folk music and took it back home, or that Greek villagers adopted the music of their oppressors which they would rarely hear? The Greeks maintained their language, religion and traditions during that time. Why wouldn't the same apply to music? Also, the Romans conquered Ancient Greece but were heavily influenced by the Greek culture, gods, music, vocabulary etc. I don't think that the influence would be completely one sided since there's definitely overlap in vocabulary and music between countries that are neighbours, but each culture still maintains it's own identity. It's a misconception that Byzantine or Greek folk music was wiped out by the influence of the Orient.
This is just turkish/persian music without the microtones. in fact the third piece "who is brave and fast" even features a "taksim" which is solo instrumental improvisation with a constant drone note unique to makam music.
who claimed it was byzantine orthodox music? The title says byzantine secular music.... so it is a recreation of what the performers assumed the music of the byzantine empire OUTSIDE of religion may have sounded like.... no one claimed it was religious music....
ce n'est pas byzantine mais Ottoman, ce n'est pas parceque que vous chantez en grec que la musique est byzantine, je dis pas que c'est grec ou turc mais que la musique que vous proposez est un mixte de plusieurs culture (turc, grec, persian et arabe).
@@ozguro.2850 Oui les conquérants ont assimilé des éléments des cultures perses, grecque et arabes. C'est le prix à payer quand le niveau civilisationnel du conquérant est réputé moins prestigieux que celui des conquis
@@vlcr9259 donc les turcs une fois venu en Anatolie n'avait pas de coutume ni civilisation mais ils sont parvenu à turquiser les autochtone en donnant des loukoums? faut vraiment t'arrête de fumer la moquette...
@@vlcr9259 ils ont effet pris des éléments dans leur culture mais ceux n'est comparer au grec qui se sont fait assimiler au point que les européen n'arriver pas à distinguer d'un turc et d'un grec au premier abord.
Secular, meaning "of the age", from the Latin "sæcula", meaning "of the age". Religious music in traditional Christianity - Catholicism and Orthodoxy - tends to stay more or less the same over the centuries. Secular music is characterised by its culture.
@@MusicaMedievale Hi, I am turkish and I have quite some amount of knowledge in turkish music theory -- or makam theory to say. Turkish music is quite different than western music, especially on the theoretical level. This is definitely turkish music. I am fairly certain the composers were inspired from modern greek folksongs which co-existed and got heavily influenced by the developing makam music. The makam music really started to develop around the time after byzantium fell so its not even "turkish influenced" because even the turks couldnt've brought taksims or makams from the persian music over to the byzantines as they started develoing AFTER byzantium fell.
@@Emre-tf8hp Well, this is Greek music, pre-medieval at that! Some of these pieces such as the Nightingale Kratima were composed by Xenos Koronios, a Greek composer from the town of Koroni in The Peloponnese in the 10th century AD. So, to recap, turkish music is mainly music borrowed from the Beyzantine Greeks of the Eastern Empire. This music gave rise to the more modern demotic (folk) music of Greek and it certainly is the sister music of our Church. But what amazes me is there is always some turk or albanian to laim Greek music or history as their own. In contrast to the Greeks, Turks were nomads, they had no city civilization. The Greeks were all over the mediterranean for more than 3000 years!
@@nicka.papanikolaou9475 Before 1071, there cannot have been any Turkish influence on Byzantine music. Before the battle of Manzinkert, there was no co-existance of Greeks and Turks in Asia Minor. I agree with you: Like Turks claim the Hagia Sophia to be a mosque, they try to pretend Greek music (or Byzantine, respectively) was theirs.
In fact most of Turkish culture and architecture is build on Greco-Roman culture ... Greek Speaking Romans, converted to Islam and adopted Ottoman Law in favor for better living conditions, and brought their cuisine and music alongside with them and became Ottomans - Greco-Romans in Turkey, who remained christians and their Greek language are still called "Romans" to this day. Modern Greece is also just a state build on 19th century nationalism when in reality todays Greeks called themselves Romans for 2 millennia.
@@Prismatic_Truth The people of Constantinople were Greeks and Latins, not Kurds and Arabs... Orientomania is totally ridiculous when is linked to Romans/Byzantines, of course they adopted middle eastern religion but they never resembled Orient to the point people try to portray, Byzantium was typical western-styled empire no matter what era we are referring to, it was created to protect Occident from Orient.
You do know it was Ancient Greek music theory that had a big influence on the Middle East since you know they controlled it from the times of Alexander the Great to the Fall of Constantinople Greek music and culture have always been oriental in nature
yes, but it didn't have certain scales included in this video, it's very exaggarated, cartoonish... although yes, oriental music and greek music are related. @@RaffiJaharian
You say arabesque, I say Byzantine. You say dark, I say mysterious. You say narrow, I say reserved. You say depressing, I say meditative... They are just our little points of view, and they are not important.
No way this is what Byzantine Music was like. This is purely turkish and arabian makams. Byzantine Empire was a christian empire and i don't think it would use its enemies music. Also this music is far too islamic for a christian culture
The music of the Arabs,Turks and Persians was influenced by greek ways of music not the other way around.Farya Faraji has a great video about how our conceptions of what music sounded like in certain locations and in different times in the past does not always correlate with reality, you should probably check that out
