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Bleeding Out Over San Francisco | Pan Am 845 

Mini Air Crash Investigation
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747 Image: Kambui - Pan American World Airways - Pan Am Boeing 747-121(A/SF) N747PA "Clipper Juan T. Trippe"
Tipped Over 747: Federal Aviation Administration
This is the story of pan am flight 845. On the 30th of july 1971 a pan am 747 was on the ground at san francisco international airport, today it would be flying all the way to tokyo's haneda airport. The crew boarded the plane at 2:30 pm and began to prepare for the flight to japan. By 3:01 pm flight 845 filled with 218 people was ready to go. As the 747 pushed back from the gate the pilots had a curve ball thrown at them. They were planning to take off from runway 28L but that runway was closed for maintenance. Their next choice was runway 01R but the first 1000 feet of 01R was also closed. The pilots had a decision to make, to get more information on everything they decided to talk to dispatch, they informed dispatch about the closures. They realized that runway 01R was long enough to accomodate a 747. Then a radio call came in “"Talked to tower, the thousand feet they were talking about that's closed is actually overrun, you couldn't start from that point in any event because of thrust damage. Start at the painted threshold and you still have 9,500 fect plus clear way ahead of you and under those circumstances the page using 3-A power shows no takeoff limitation at your gross. Over." Long story short they could take off. The flight crew and the flight controller discussed everything a bit more and came to the conclusion that the pilots should use flaps 20 for takeoff instead of the 10 degrees that they had originally planned for. In the cockpit the pilots read out the v speeds for this takeoff. V1 or the speed at which you could no longer safely reject a takeoff was 149 knots and the rotate speed was 157 knots.
Soon the huge 747 was on the displaced threshold of runway 01R ready to go. At 3:28 pm the crew got their takeoff clearance and all 4 engines were advanced to takeoff power. As the plane picked up speed the first officer called V1, As the plane accelerated to the rotate speed the first officer noticed something strange. The end of the runway was fast approaching and they were still on the ground! They pulled back as hard as they could in an attempt to lift the giant 747 into the air. They were out of runway the pilots felt a bump as the runway ran out but the plane lifted off at the very last second. Usually takeoffs like these leave a very long tear on the tail you might even lose pressurisation but you're usually in a position where you can safely land the plane. But the state of flight 845 was much more dire. The flight engineer looked at his panel and he relaised that they were losing hydraulics systems 1,3 and 4. He launched himself into the emergency checklist for those systems. A meber of the cabin crew came into the cockpit and they had some bad news. A few passengers were badly injured. At the end of the runway there were these lights that were put on top of long thin rods, the plane flew through them and those rods punctured through the skin and into the cabin, Into a cabin full of passengers. The injuries sustained by the passengers were not minor bumps and scrapes either some people had life threatening injuries. The pilots needed to put this plane back on the ground as soon as possible. But its not as simple as just coming back in for a landing, for one thing the plane was fueled up for a intercontinental flight to tokyo and so they needed to dump some fuel to make sure that the plane's weight was within limits for a safe landing. More importantly they had no idea of the damage sustained by the plane. They needed to know what worked and what didnt before making a landing attempt. You dont want to be in a situation where you find out that something important doesn't work when you're on short final.

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25 окт 2021

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Комментарии : 449   
@flyashi
@flyashi 2 года назад
In his book "Wide Body", Joseph Sutter, the chief engineer of the 747, mentions this incident. In WW2 he was in the Navy on a storm-tossed ship that lost steering, and vowed to make the 747 as safe as possible so that the pilots never loose control. So he put in four independent hydraulic systems. This plane lost three, and was still able to come back in for safe landing.
@benedictramage-mangles2622
@benedictramage-mangles2622 2 года назад
F for JAL123
@millomweb
@millomweb 2 года назад
"independent" is a trickly bugger. The systems might be independent but if all the systems have 1 pipe each that all go through 1 hole in a bulkhead, say, then that hole being damaged could take all 4 systems out. Separate system pipes and wires should not be run anywhere near each other.
@mglenn7092
@mglenn7092 2 года назад
@@millomweb JAL 123 went down because of that design flaw - take out the vertical stabilizer, also take out ALL 4 hydraulic systems because they all end there. Worst single plane accident in history (so far).
@stephenhoover4095
@stephenhoover4095 2 года назад
@@millomweb the systems all have separate lines and pumps. The real problem is there's only a certain amount of room to separate lines and each control surface is operated by at least 2 or 3 of the hydraulic systems to prevent the loss of a single hydraulic system from knocking out a entire control surface. That's why multiple systems have lines close together.
@millomweb
@millomweb 2 года назад
@@stephenhoover4095 The pipes and wires for system: 1. should run under the belly. 2. Down the left side of the plane 3. Along the top of the fuselage 4. Down the right side of the plane Then unless the plane's chopped in two, one control system should be complete.
@josephmassaro
@josephmassaro 2 года назад
Mini Air Crash Investigation: "Gears are damaged...flaps are damaged...stabilizers are damaged...brakes are- Nick Fury: "Well what's not damaged?" Mini Air Crash Investigation: "Air-conditioning is fully operational."
@Ian-lx1iz
@Ian-lx1iz 2 года назад
Yeah, in flight movie is on, but it's 'The Cable Guy' so even that's a bit >meh
@millomweb
@millomweb 2 года назад
"Mini Air Crash Investigation: "Air-conditioning is fully operational."" That was down to the hole pushed through into the cabin ;)
@josephmassaro
@josephmassaro 2 года назад
@@millomweb It's green technology. Natural airflow. ;)
@millomweb
@millomweb 2 года назад
@@josephmassaro Except - have you seen how big the engines are to provide the airflow ? ;)
@josephmassaro
@josephmassaro 2 года назад
@@millomweb Don't ruin my funny with facts.
@richardrawson
@richardrawson 2 года назад
I researched this aircraft and found out that it had been sold and shipped to Korea and turned into a restaurant which then sat abandoned for years until being scrapped in 2010. Crazy!
@cindysavage265
@cindysavage265 2 года назад
This 747 was named Clipper Juan Trippe, named after the CEO of Pan Am. It was the second 747 placed into commercial service. The first 747 was Clipper Victor, which was lost at Tenerife in 1977
@karlcarrigan4451
@karlcarrigan4451 2 года назад
Wasn't this 747 repaired and put back into service? I'm sure it was according to another video I have watched....
@alexanderslater4021
@alexanderslater4021 2 года назад
I don't know why listening to commentary on aviation disasters helps me sleep so well, but I'm glad it does.
@HemanthRajGplus
@HemanthRajGplus 2 года назад
I think its because we are safe on the ground when we watch the videos, so we feel less worried thinking "at least im not on that plane!"
@8cordas381
@8cordas381 2 года назад
You are not alone.
@sphumelelengcamu1984
@sphumelelengcamu1984 2 года назад
Same here.
@daonlyzneggalz7522
@daonlyzneggalz7522 2 года назад
Those plus his voice is pretty calming...
@greggstrasser5791
@greggstrasser5791 2 года назад
MACI may work you know you are safe but the story makes you feel out of control, then you just relax and accept your fate.
@kasuraga
@kasuraga 2 года назад
man this accident was way too close to a full disaster from start to finish.
@thatguyalex2835
@thatguyalex2835 2 года назад
Yeah, the Swiss Cheese Model really showed in this accident. Also, I would have called the whole flight off, and head back to the gate, if I was the pilot. Too risky to use a short runway. Plus, the runway data should have called for 8,500 ft in the charts, and the pilots should have recalculated their takeoff velocity. Man, so many mistakes made by the crew and airport.
@burke615
@burke615 2 года назад
I discovered this channel a few days ago, and have been binging the content. I'm really impressed by the improvement over time, both in audio quality and in smoothness of narration!
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation 2 года назад
Thank you for the encouragement!
@aaroncarson
@aaroncarson 2 года назад
Right?! It's genuinely awesome to see his heart and soul get poured into the videos 😄
@aaroncarson
@aaroncarson 2 года назад
@Benjamin P 7 why are you being so negative? obviously it’s not “original content”. unless they went out and crashed a plane themselves and kept all air investigation teams out, there’s no way it could be ENTIRELY original content. we’re here for the narration and obvious passion that the creator has for the content they present to us
@TheGospelQuartetParadise
@TheGospelQuartetParadise 2 года назад
Very nice and complete report. I lived in Oakland when this accident occurred, and it was all over the news. Have you ever done a video on the Japan Airlines plane that made a perfect landing NEAR SFO -- in the Bay? Japan Airlines Flight 2 was a scheduled passenger flight on November 22, 1968. The plane was a new Douglas DC-8 named "Shiga", flying from Tokyo International Airport (Haneda) to San Francisco International Airport. Due to heavy fog and other factors, Captain Kohei Asoh mistakenly ditched the plane near Coyote Point in the shallow waters of San Francisco Bay, two and a half miles short of the runway. None of the 96 passengers and 11 crew were injured in the landing.
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation 2 года назад
very interesting ill look into it!
@epicspacetroll1399
@epicspacetroll1399 2 года назад
As I recall, the captain was very humble about it as well. When questioned about why the accident happened, his first statement was something along the lines of "as the Americans would say, I f***ed up." Thus, "The Asoh Defense" became a sort of expression for someone owning up to a mistake.
@erictaylor5462
@erictaylor5462 2 года назад
There was another, I think around '65 it was a 707 taking off from SFO and it lost an outboard engine and part of the wing and ended up landing at Travis AFB.
@cmw9876
@cmw9876 2 года назад
@@epicspacetroll1399 Hard to say at times. We spend our lives seeking a kind of perfection. It's a great goal. It's just impossible. Great comment, "139"!
@lightningstrikestwice6302
@lightningstrikestwice6302 2 года назад
I remember that! I live on the peninsula. I was a much younger man than! Much much younger!
@skuula
@skuula 2 года назад
That's really tight tolerances when like 12% or so less runway length makes the difference between perfectly safe, and lucky to survive.
@Milesco
@Milesco 2 года назад
Well, they got switched to a shorter runway, and then it turned out that the shorter runway was even 1,000 feet shorter than they thought. So it was a "double whammy".
@dennisyoung4631
@dennisyoung4631 2 года назад
Need 2x the calculated distance to be safe?
@Greg-yu4ij
@Greg-yu4ij 2 года назад
Its insane to think a anything causing 12% miscalculation can cause a loss of a plane. At least the rotate and V1 should overlap. If they did they could have simply hit the brakes. Plus this is the 3rd time the lights or a fence at the end have seriously messed up a plane. They should be made of fiberglass or something that can shear off in an emergency.
@greggstrasser5791
@greggstrasser5791 2 года назад
@@Greg-yu4ij The calculations are math. If it’s a GO, that means you can do it.
@surferdude4487
@surferdude4487 2 года назад
Here's a comment for the algorithm. It is amazing to me that this incident didn't kill everyone on the plane.
@rherman9085
@rherman9085 2 года назад
Wow, your attention to detail is fantastic. I realize these are geared for civilians to understand. AS a pilot, your explanations are excellent. Another great video. Thank you!
@bingosunnoon9341
@bingosunnoon9341 2 года назад
I wish he would stop adding a leading zero to runway names. The markings are pretty clear on the approach plates.
@sueb9128
@sueb9128 2 года назад
Hey Sun One, yeah I found these stories very interesting! But I also am very confused about the runway names. Ex: R1 - E28! Is there a method to their madness or visa versa??
@TraceUK
@TraceUK 2 года назад
@@sueb9128 The numbers relate to the compass bearing of the runway ie: Runway 32 would be called as such, due to it being 32 degrees
@davidhoffman1278
@davidhoffman1278 2 года назад
The nose tilting upward after landing stop, thus rendering the forward evacuation slides useless, was due to the missing and failed body gear assemblies, something never anticipated by Boeing engineers or the FAA certification staff. The evacuation slides twisting in the wind also led to future design changes to evacuation slides to reduce the probability of twisting in wind.
@Gundog55
@Gundog55 2 года назад
Actually the aircraft tipped onto its tail due to fuel dumping to lower landing weight causing the an aft CG.
@davidhoffman1278
@davidhoffman1278 2 года назад
@@Gundog55 , But, IF the body gear had been intact, fully down and locked, then there would probably have been no nose tip up, even with the lower fuel load.
@Gundog55
@Gundog55 2 года назад
@@davidhoffman1278 If
@the_bottomfragger
@the_bottomfragger 2 года назад
oh SFO.. This airport has had more heart palpitations and nervous breakdowns than lives lost. Must be a world record of narrowly avoided huge disasters.
@zew1414
@zew1414 2 года назад
Yeah I will never fly into SF again if I can help it.
@Aztesticals
@Aztesticals 2 года назад
@@zew1414 no do you'll get your near death experience out of the way
@MrSuzuki1187
@MrSuzuki1187 2 года назад
Before I retired from United Airlines, I used to make takeoffs flying a 757from Runway 1 Right under these same circumstances. We were required to use slightly above idle thrust for the first 1000 feet to avoid jet blast affecting car traffic on Highway 101.
@MendTheWorld
@MendTheWorld 2 года назад
That’s a good compromise, to at least give you a running start. I wonder if that change was made because of this incident?
@cyberi4a
@cyberi4a 2 года назад
I remember that day and it went live on the TV. I believe the worst injury was severed feet when the metal deck was ripped up inside the cabin. Also went landing and the plane went off the runway, it carved a big trench in the ground. I used to have the original newspaper headlines, but they vanished over the years.
@breadandcircus1
@breadandcircus1 2 года назад
What a comprehensive, knowledgeable explanation about this airplane accident. Thank you for this great video
@KristinCortez
@KristinCortez 2 года назад
Thank you for another great video. I appreciate that you are so thorough in your research, present the facts well, and that you show sensitivity to your viewers (i.e., apologizing for mispronunciation of cities). Keep up the great work!
@patrickmollohan3082
@patrickmollohan3082 2 года назад
Yes. The details you give on everything that's going on and being done, made it so easy to see what truly happened and why it happened the way it did! Thank you so much for the detail you put into ALL of your videos!! Its very appreciated!!🛩✈
@timmack2415
@timmack2415 2 года назад
I'm always happy when I see that you uploaded a new video! This one didn't disappoint, as always.
@GoodGnewsGary
@GoodGnewsGary 2 года назад
Great vid! It's exciting to see how far you've come.
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation 2 года назад
Thank you so much!
@ddegn
@ddegn 2 года назад
Agreed. I was watching back when he just had random airplanes on the screen. I'm pretty sure I've watched all the videos on this channel so I was surprised to see I wasn't subscribed. I'm subbed now. Thanks for the fun videos *@Mini Air Crash Investigation.*
@lillymom7909
@lillymom7909 2 года назад
WOW! I have exhausted so many aviation channels, but you still taught me something new! I am impressed and subscribed!!! 😁
@brianmuhlingBUM
@brianmuhlingBUM 2 года назад
What a great story! I had not heard of this incident before. In flying, you assume nothing. Always check and recheck your own data. Great narration, very well done.
@hankcarter1021
@hankcarter1021 2 года назад
This is one of the best descriptive narrative of what happened! Great graphics!
@shitbird9429
@shitbird9429 2 года назад
If you've never flown out of SFO, it can be a little scary landing and taking off right at waters edge. As a passenger when you land you don't see anything but water until a second or two before touchdown. Look up a picture, the runway edge is about 100 feet from the bay
@sarahalbers5555
@sarahalbers5555 2 года назад
Yep. I used to fly out of SFO. Not for the faint of heart....
@Sashazur
@Sashazur 2 года назад
JFK and/or LGA is like that too, as I seem to recall.
@alhanes5803
@alhanes5803 2 года назад
@@Sashazur Yep.
@fhowland
@fhowland 2 года назад
Yep Boston has a runway just like it. SFO is also cool because of the parallel runways sometimes you get a simultaneous takeoff - aka drag race
@wildatlanticcoffeetasters1423
@wildatlanticcoffeetasters1423 2 года назад
Very informative and interesting video. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Great job!
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation 2 года назад
Thank you so much!
@johnlustig4322
@johnlustig4322 2 года назад
Clear and concise. Excellent...
@BillyAlabama
@BillyAlabama 2 года назад
Your work is always so well done and a pleasure to watch.
@MarkPMus
@MarkPMus 2 года назад
Brilliant video, thanks. I binge watch these!
@albertjm
@albertjm 2 года назад
Love your content! Informative and high quality, keep it up :)
@N1120A
@N1120A 2 года назад
A Pan Am 747-8 would have been nice to see.
@martijnellenbroek6448
@martijnellenbroek6448 2 года назад
Hey, i just wanted to let you know that i really enjoy your video's the quality is amazing, and your voice is nice and calming. I often listen to these video's when i just want to get my mind off things and it really helps. Thank you so much for making these, and i hope you enjoy making them as much as i enjoy watching/listening.
@donnafromnyc
@donnafromnyc 2 года назад
Mini has so improved his tone and delivery...and in such a short time! He doesn't need dramatic music or effects. The Jack Webb of aviation incident videos! (Just the facts, ma'am...Dragnet)
@reneedaniel2881
@reneedaniel2881 2 года назад
Love new videos when you least expect it 😍
@thedie-castaviator4081
@thedie-castaviator4081 2 года назад
Great video mate😎 Very very lucky passengers on this flight😬
@Houndini
@Houndini 2 года назад
1 more time the rule is broken. You do not cut corners or take chances on Aircraft. Mother Earth is a very hard hit when you do. She don't care who you are or your excuses.
@LMays-cu2hp
@LMays-cu2hp 2 года назад
Thank you for sharing.
@dukadarodear2176
@dukadarodear2176 2 года назад
I know nothing about flying but I enjoy longhaul flights. I've great admiration for all the crew that gets us into the air, keeps us there and grounds us again. Thanks for the post. Very interesting.
@MendTheWorld
@MendTheWorld 2 года назад
I generally have no fear of flying, but was generally happier before I found out it was actually possible to stall an airplane over the middle of the ocean. I mean, I thought that once you’re airborne, that’s pretty much it until it’s time to land. But noooooo. So thanks, AF 447 and whoever else. Remember to trust your instruments. I do!
@bartskinthepro3138
@bartskinthepro3138 2 года назад
Another great video
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation 2 года назад
Thank you!
@themobseat
@themobseat 2 года назад
Well done, your attention to details shows!
@elcroato8338
@elcroato8338 2 года назад
Thank you for the upload. I'm a great follower of your channel.The analysis is excellent,the quality of your vids also. Keep on doing. Greatings from Germany.
@skbenergy
@skbenergy 2 года назад
lovely video !!! and yeah that British Airways 777 video is @ my home Airport !!!
@rebelyank6361
@rebelyank6361 2 года назад
Another great video and another sad accident that shouldn't have been allowed to happen. I'm willing to bet that the airport was there before a highway of that size was located there. It's time landowners, towns & even states & federal government are forced to deal with it. If they don't like the takeoffs near the highway either move the highway or build blast walls!
@donnafromnyc
@donnafromnyc 2 года назад
Another excellent report and analysis from Mini on a forgotten incident with "The Queen of the Skies" ...and she brought them home safe though undoubtedly written off. This one was truly a concatenation of mistakes. The sims get better and better too...almost real.
@Milesco
@Milesco 2 года назад
Surprisingly, the plane wasn't written off, and in fact was repaired and returned to service. It continued in use for another 20 years until a Pan Am went out of business in 1991. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kq-yZd1LNo4.html
@michaelscott356
@michaelscott356 2 года назад
@@Milesco Not surprising; a 747 is a helluva big asset to write off and since no one died and the plane didn't break up, per se, or catch fire, I assumed it would be a "repair job", at worst.
@miojobob
@miojobob 2 года назад
Very nice video as usual !! Good Job !!
@liz9147
@liz9147 2 года назад
Love this channel!
@ottawaemergencyvideography
@ottawaemergencyvideography 2 года назад
Great video
@lucasakachubby8694
@lucasakachubby8694 2 года назад
loved the original 747 very infromative again
@willer3399
@willer3399 2 года назад
The prettiest bird ever.
@steveflor9942
@steveflor9942 2 года назад
I heard about this when it happened. Now I know how it happened. THANKS!
@Plqnes
@Plqnes 2 года назад
Love ur videos
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation 2 года назад
Thank you so much
@bluegreenglue6565
@bluegreenglue6565 2 года назад
I am not a pilot, nor will I ever learn to fly an aircraft. But I find the technical details fascinating.
@coca-colayes1958
@coca-colayes1958 2 года назад
Sweet still love this channel
@ronniewall1481
@ronniewall1481 2 года назад
NICE SHOW.
@epicspacetroll1399
@epicspacetroll1399 2 года назад
Another great video! As an engineer (well, engineering student) who read about this accident before, it always intrigued me that antennas/lights would be able to slice through a plane like that, even taking off landing gear. A plane going off the end of the runway seems like something you could reasonably expect to have happen at any airport given enough time, so I would think engineers would design for it if at all practical. Would it not be easy to build the light poles and antennas with frangible joints so they just break apart if an aircraft hits them? Idk, maybe there's some reason the light poles had to be really strong that I'm not thinking of.
@bobkile9734
@bobkile9734 2 года назад
They are now. I don’t know when that change was made, but this accident happened in 1971. They are frangible now. Doesn’t mean they wont cause damage, but at least it’s less now.
@epicspacetroll1399
@epicspacetroll1399 2 года назад
@@bobkile9734 Good to hear. Yes I imagine even a frangible antenna/light pole could put some big dents and possibly holes in an aircraft, but at least it probably wouldn't travel through the aircraft like a knife.
@ddegn
@ddegn 2 года назад
I was wondering the same thing. Road barricades used to be made to be strong. The people designing roads finally figured out it's better to let the barricade be damaged than killing the people who crash into them. Hopefully the airline business has learned from the highway people. I know the highway/car designer people have learned a lot from the airline business.
@marcmcreynolds2827
@marcmcreynolds2827 2 года назад
"maybe there's some reason the light poles had to be really strong that I'm not thinking of" Nope. It just hadn't been thought about back then. The landing gear (300M steel shock strut) is much stronger than the runway light trusswork (plain ole 4130 steel or whatever), but aluminum structure in the vicinity of the landing gear is another matter. I don't know if this figured in to the MLG damage experienced, but note that airliner MLG are designed to fail aft from a certain amount of longitudinal load. The MLG hinge is actually a closely-designed shear pin, which will snap before the trunnion it mounts to rips off from the wing. Since the trunnion attaches to the wing in an area which also serves as a fuel tank, the end result is that on a good day the fuel tank doesn't rupture because the trunnion stayed intact because the shock strut ripped away first. On a bad day (Continental 603), there are vertical or other loads on the trunnion which cause the fuel tank rupture anyway.
@TheDalhuck
@TheDalhuck 2 года назад
It's crazy how thin aircraft skin is. I once dropped a screwdiver while standing on a horizontal stabilizer and it punctured the skin. No real damage done, because it was getting pulled off due to hail damage, but it was crazy to just see this screwdriver sticking out of the skin.
@dimitarivanov3817
@dimitarivanov3817 2 года назад
Can we just say a lot of people were responsible about this incident? A perfect example of why we should always and I mean absolutely always check, double check and triple check every piece of information available. I am just glad everyone survived that. And I don't want to think about if one more thing would have gone wrong.
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation 2 года назад
Definitely a very close call
@dimitarivanov3817
@dimitarivanov3817 2 года назад
@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation Can I say I am speechless because on one of the recent videos of your somehow I got almost 1k likes
@reneedaniel2881
@reneedaniel2881 2 года назад
@@dimitarivanov3817 it must have been a very good video to elicit such a like worthy comment, these are A1 class videos.
@drnogueiras8783
@drnogueiras8783 2 года назад
Wow. Made it in 37 seconds, that’s a first
@jamesturner2126
@jamesturner2126 2 года назад
On a technicality, SFO is in San Bruno, CA. In Bayview-SF, WE CAN RARELY even hear aircraft leave SFO. So the flight bled out over San Mateo, CA. Its like a $50 taxi ride.
@jjsifo1
@jjsifo1 2 года назад
Great!
@roderickcampbell2105
@roderickcampbell2105 2 года назад
Really nice report. I hope the folks who were hurt came out of it with as little pain and grief as possible. I suspect some will never fly again.
@hellosweden8786
@hellosweden8786 2 года назад
Everything is so awesome, I hope you can visualise the airport layout next time there is a lack of runway and displaced thresholds!
@festerofest4374
@festerofest4374 2 года назад
Chilling!
@glamdolly30
@glamdolly30 2 года назад
Love this narrator's voice, so easy to listen to and really memorable.
@wwsoapbox6921
@wwsoapbox6921 2 года назад
I stopped on I-280 that day and watched the landing of this 747. We could hear the tires exploding even at that distance. I believe there was one fatality at the take off time.
@pameladee
@pameladee 2 года назад
I was wondering about the seriously injured passengers. It had to be pandemonium in the cabin. I can only imagine the horror …
@Culpano
@Culpano 2 года назад
There were no fatalities. Read the official NTSB report. Its online.
@naknaksdadn572
@naknaksdadn572 2 года назад
Configuring the "bug speeds" of v1, vr and v2 is fundamental. It is mind boggling that trained, experienced flight crews fail these very important pre-takeoff check lists.
@Milesco
@Milesco 2 года назад
Well, they _were_ configured -- just for the longer runway. When they were made to switch runways at the last minute, they changed the flaps setting but forgot to recalculate the V speeds. And even _that_ wouldn't have been a problem had they not _also_ gotten bad info about the runway length. They were told they had 9500 feet when in fact they only had 8500 feet.
@AdrianColley
@AdrianColley 2 года назад
This is why we can't have remote pilots. If the pilots' buttocks aren't personally on the plane, then they won't be as careful in distinguishing runway length from TORA in the charts. It's a little surprising that the pilots blindly accepted what the dispatcher told them, so it's a bit like the Tenerife incident.
@naknaksdadn572
@naknaksdadn572 2 года назад
@@Milesco Well.....you need to explain that to the passengers, the cabin crew and their families. i am curious as to how your opinion would be if you or yours was on this aircraft. People got hurt.
@Milesco
@Milesco 2 года назад
​@@naknaksdadn572 : Not minimizing the severe injuries that some of the passengers suffered. That's bad. But humans are not infallible, and none of this would've happened if [1] the runway hadn't been changed at the last minute, and [2] the pilots hadn't been given bad information about the length of the new runway. So in answer to your comment ("you need to explain that to the passengers..."), I would say: 1. The runway was changed on us at the last minute, which resulted in making appropriate changes to the plane's takeoff configuration, but unfortunately overlooking changes to the V speeds as well, and 2. The new runway was not only shorter than the original one, but was an additional thousand feet shorter than we were told, and if we had known that, this accident wouldn't have happened.
@naknaksdadn572
@naknaksdadn572 2 года назад
@@Milesco It's tragic indeed. Horrible that this wasn't in the NOTAMS.
@ryanfrisby7389
@ryanfrisby7389 2 года назад
Wow!
@Ananth8193
@Ananth8193 2 года назад
Hi man good to see your videos...2nd comment..IS THE AIRPLANE WRITTEN OFF??
@Ian-lx1iz
@Ian-lx1iz 2 года назад
(8:57) San Francisco should change their Airport Code from SFO to LAX. Their dispatchers sound pretty funkin' lax to me.
@richardcline1337
@richardcline1337 2 года назад
You also have to remember, this is San Francisco....a part of California....they screw up (no pun intended) EVERYTHING that they get near!
@Clipper1094
@Clipper1094 2 года назад
@@richardcline1337 yet they somehow have the largest economy in the county and the 5th largest in the world.
@tdestroyer1882
@tdestroyer1882 2 года назад
It’s crazy to think that there with aviation incidents it’s like there’s unlimited amounts
@TheScrappingJeahaha
@TheScrappingJeahaha 2 года назад
And that's only the top of the iceberg, there are many many more to come and also many more which aren't public. Oh and let alone the amount of incidents in private flying
@grmpEqweer
@grmpEqweer 2 года назад
I'm late! Oooh! At least the flight's still boarding!
@donnafromnyc
@donnafromnyc 2 года назад
I am thinking that the logo on the livery would have been the older "Pan American" type in 1971, not Pan Am. But a great video analysis with photos of the actual aircraft. And the sims are a far cry from the random footage of your early ones.
@donaldvincent
@donaldvincent 2 года назад
Very informative. Thanks for posting. God I miss Pan Am 747's , TWA too. I guess I am getting old. We used to get real metal utensils and after dinner you could smoke if you liked. I am a non smoker but it was everywhere back then so I never minded at all.
@Paiadakine
@Paiadakine 2 года назад
I like how the wheels go into the runway on take off.
@arbajrahman2135
@arbajrahman2135 2 года назад
This was N747PA, the 2nd 747 ever built.
@104thDIVTimberwolf
@104thDIVTimberwolf Год назад
There's a great video of an Il-76 taking off somewhere in Europe and not lifting off until about 1000 feet past the end of the pavement. I can only imagine the pucker factor going on in that cockpit. At least they didn't have lights to interfere with their takeoff.
@dominikmilien
@dominikmilien 2 года назад
After watching this once, it got me recommended again and I realized that the thumbnail misspelled "disaster" as "diaster" Great video as always!
@68MalKontent
@68MalKontent 2 года назад
Also within the video the Vr speeds for flaps 10 and 20 are opposite to what they should be.
@dominikmilien
@dominikmilien 2 года назад
@@68MalKontent I don't think so, more flaps means more drag, but also more lift, considering it's 747, flaps 20 could be ok for takeoff and further decrease the speed needed for rotation. I haven't done any calculations but it seems reasonable to me that these speeds are correct.
@68MalKontent
@68MalKontent 2 года назад
@@dominikmilien You are right. What confuses me in this video is that he clearly says at the beginning, that they talked with the despatcher, decided on flaps 20 and afterwards read out the V1 and Vr speeds for that flaps setting, with the Vr *even mentioned* to be 157 kts. It is contrary to what is being said at the end of the video, that they *didn't* recalculate the speeds for flaps 20 and expected rotation not sooner than at 164. There's a mistake somewhere, those statements are mutually exclusive.
@dominikmilien
@dominikmilien 2 года назад
@@68MalKontent I think they didn't recalculate and the part of the video that mentions the dispatcher is not well put. I was also a bit confused but I think I got the point
@HolySoliDeoGloria
@HolySoliDeoGloria 2 года назад
The tone of levity around 6:00 saying something like, "I'm just gonna stop listing all the damaged systems" seems somewhat insensitive.
@EliWCoyote
@EliWCoyote 2 года назад
11:18 The animation trying to set up a Tenerife...
@DaBroofUrner
@DaBroofUrner 2 года назад
Great video as always! A small advice: please tweak your voice a bit louder as you sound more quiet than most youtubers
@OscarScheepstra_Artemis_
@OscarScheepstra_Artemis_ 2 года назад
I love those videos. You are an amazing storyteller! The ONLY thing I would possibly change (not sure if it is possible!) woudl be to use period-correct planes. This is the only detail that catches my eye. But seriously, I love all the research, the narration, the way you tell those stories. One of my favorite aviation channels ever!
@LoneWolf-gm5qm
@LoneWolf-gm5qm 2 года назад
Oscar, will you please shut up!
@SleeplessSwan7
@SleeplessSwan7 2 года назад
killer video as always. Would like it if you add the status of the airplane or what happened to it after the accident (if it didn't blow up of course). Just a humble suggestion. Keep the goodies comin' mate!
@Milesco
@Milesco 2 года назад
According the Allec Joshua Ibay's video of this incident (link below), the plane (N747PA) was fixed and returned to service, where it continued in service until Pan Am went out of business in 1991. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kq-yZd1LNo4.html
@michaelscott356
@michaelscott356 2 года назад
With a NON-killer ending was the best part!
@youziyin996
@youziyin996 2 года назад
displaced threshold is not used to prevent taking off; it is only for landing in this end of the runway. you can use the dispalced section to taxi and take off or landing from the other end of the runway.
@sakshattiwari6831
@sakshattiwari6831 2 года назад
Hate it how the commerical aspects of it (burning of fuel, other planes waiting behind you when taxiing, very quick communications with the ATC) puts pressure on the pilots to make very quick decisions, which can sometimes end up being life threatening. Maybe technology has come to a point where all this is avoidable, but the fact that a lot of accidents happened because of just these factors is sad.
@MattMcIrvin
@MattMcIrvin 2 года назад
I was wondering why I'd never heard of this incident until I read the description again and realized it happened when I was 3.
@laurasalo6160
@laurasalo6160 2 года назад
Why isn't this a Mayday episode!? This is an incredible incident, and miraculous! I'm damn sure id recall this one! I know them all almost by heart.
@geoh7777
@geoh7777 2 года назад
I made a series of mistakes like that when I left in my car for a long trip. Not far after departing on the trip, my car fell through the pavement. I do not like flying or boat travel. However illogical that is. I know I'm not alone.
@ursodermatt8809
@ursodermatt8809 2 года назад
yes, i am sure there are many other nuts roaming around
@robertjennings397
@robertjennings397 2 года назад
Those engines were very recent vintage and my minds eye said there was a ‘ton’ of thrust still available.
@Houshalter
@Houshalter 2 года назад
Most of your other videos feature comical negligence, but there's no error in this story that I couldnt have made if I was a pilot.
@kommandantgalileo
@kommandantgalileo 2 года назад
Swiss cheese diagram would be useful here
@Edgy01
@Edgy01 2 года назад
Another thing that perhaps is missed in analysis is just how new the 747 was in 1971. I flew my first 747 ride from LAX to Hilo, Hawaii I think summer of 1970. That Pan Am 747 was still going through countless build problems then. Perhaps dispatch just wasn’t as proficient with the 747 numbers as he should have been when presented with last minute config changes. Sadly, ultimately the crew didn’t want to hold up others stacking up behind them. That’s, sadly, a common problem. Everyone’s in a hurry to get to their accident.
@maxmiller3181
@maxmiller3181 2 года назад
Anyone else notice that the aircraft in the video is a 747-8i? I’d like to think if Pan Am were still around, they would have been the launch customer for the type ✈️
@ellenbryn
@ellenbryn 2 года назад
Good grief. Your discussions are excellent as always. It seems like the end of the runways at SFO have caltrops, between the towers in this crash and the sea wall that that Asian jet (was it China airlines? I forget) came in low and tripped over a few years back.
@CreRay
@CreRay 2 года назад
One thing I don’t get is: with flaps 20, the Vr and V2 speeds are lower than with flaps 10 at which the speeds were calculated. This caused them to pull too late on the stick, wasting precious runway. Yet still the plane wouldn’t lift off. Why?
@apolloniaaskew9487
@apolloniaaskew9487 2 года назад
This happened when the 747 - 100 was new to the airlines, flight crews and the control tower. The 747 from the start was built with redundancy in safety. If you are going to be accurate, use a 747-100 animation; not a-8i model.
@TheScrappingJeahaha
@TheScrappingJeahaha 2 года назад
Human factors are an very interesting topic. They are known for almost a decade now but they will always remain a factor as long as there is a pilot in the cockpit
@marcmcreynolds2827
@marcmcreynolds2827 2 года назад
Known for almost a decade? I took a Human Factors class in 1974, and it was "old" by then. The discipline, sometimes called Ergonomics, really came into its own during and after WWII. Transport aircraft, in particular, saw cockpit layouts became somewhat standardized (crashes during the Berlin Airlift caused in part by pilots flying multiple dissimilar aircraft one after the other) and checklists were introduced (B-17 that they forgot to removed the control surface locks from). More recent contributions include things like Cockpit Resource Management.
@HolySoliDeoGloria
@HolySoliDeoGloria 2 года назад
This is the first time I've heard of a displaced threshold being unavailable for takeoff (but I understand why, and the video explained it)-normally, you can do anything on a displaced threshold except land: You can start or end your takeoff on it, and you can roll out on it when you land on the other end.
@didyuknow
@didyuknow 2 года назад
the danger to the runway could have been easily solved by raised barriers near the fence. Reducing the takeoff margins while there was ways to protect the cars and the planes takeoff safety is like a quick but not best solution?
@HolySoliDeoGloria
@HolySoliDeoGloria 2 года назад
@@didyuknowYes, that makes more sense than reducing the runway available for takeoff. I agree.
@Tindometari
@Tindometari 2 года назад
Last time I was this early, Pan Am was still flying.
@AshishKumar-fn9en
@AshishKumar-fn9en 2 года назад
You should also join air crash investigation team 😜
@ZenkaiAnkoku2
@ZenkaiAnkoku2 2 года назад
Thats horrifying... I'm glad everyone survived! But spending almost 2 hours in the air.. The pilots must have been under tremendous stress. They knew they had to land. But they could do nothing but wait until they dumped enough fuel and tested their systems. Not to mention the initial fear of the pilots as they saw the end of the runway approaching. This was an excellent documentary! You make them intriguing and easy to pay attention to without inappropriate dramatics.
@Milesco
@Milesco 2 года назад
_"The pilots must have been under tremendous stress."_ Not to mention the stress and pain experienced by the passengers who literally got skewered by the metal poles! That must've been horrible for them.
@ZenkaiAnkoku2
@ZenkaiAnkoku2 2 года назад
@@Milesco Exactly. I didnt mention it cuz I thought it came across quite obviously in the video. The terror they felt in that time is unimaginable. Just awful.
@clover5172
@clover5172 2 года назад
you should do a video on a mid air collision, preferably a rather unknown one like The 1979 Dniprodzerzhynsk mid-air collision or The 1972 Lake Winnebago mid-air collision
@stephenjacks8196
@stephenjacks8196 2 года назад
LAX and LaGuardia have long runways ending over ocean from the days of earliest transatlantic flights heavily loaded with fuel (props and early jets). At LAX there are still no obstacles in planes ground effect area. Ground effect gives ~15% lift on takeoff. Newbies often rotate too sharply and stall. (The old 737s I took from LAX to SFO would rotate to 45 ° to cruise altitude; definitely overpowered little beasts, unlike the fuel efficient 737 Max 😔
@MendTheWorld
@MendTheWorld 2 года назад
The first time I flew to Australia, we took off from LAX…. probably on 24L, as it seemed we were immediately over the ocean. This was a new route, direct from LAX to SYD on the new 747-400, which was close to the limits of its range. I recall seeing the wings flapping up and down, being so heavily laden with fuel, and seemingly taking forever to lift off.
@fhowland
@fhowland 2 года назад
Last airbus 320 I was on climbed like a scalded cat after take off… it was half empty though
@GH-oi2jf
@GH-oi2jf 2 года назад
There is film of this flight returning to SFO on RU-vid.
@oboealto
@oboealto 10 месяцев назад
I really enjoy your content and the insights you provide. However, I've noticed that sometimes there's a bit of repetition that extends the video length unnecessarily. Maybe consider condensing your points a bit to keep the content concise while still delivering the valuable information. Keep up the great work, and thanks for sharing your knowledge!
@danieldrayet2364
@danieldrayet2364 2 года назад
At sfo The full-length of runway 1R is 9500 ft The only 747s to depart from there were likely domestic routes and likely not max weight
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