Boarding Actions: The Final Verdict

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On this episode, Brad and Eric discuss 40k’s newest game mode, Boarding Actions. From good ways to set up the battlefield to play, to what datasheets and strategies they think are good to run, join in to discover the goods and the less good bits of running the best set of rules that GW made in recent memory.
Mentioned this Episode:
The Perfect Intro Box Episode:
• Designing the Impossib...
Teaching my Wife Episode:
• I Made My Wife Play 40...
Compatible Printable Walls: cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/...
GW’s Terrain Set: www.games-workshop.com/en-US/...
Mark Dickey’s Making Walls with Children’s Toys:
• Build Terrain From Mag...
Show Links:
Website: poorhammer.libsyn.com/
Patreon: / solelysingleton
Brad’s Twitter: / drruler
Eric’s Twitter: / onekuosora
00:00 Intro
02:17 How to Play Boarding Actions
05:54 "Mostly" Positive
07:43 Findings: The First Game
11:07 Command Points are Worthless
13:19 Ob Sec
15:25 Overwatch
16:36 Positioning and Line of Sight
19:09 Universal Secondaries
20:11 Game Duration
21:36 How good are the Door Mechanics?
24:27 Model and Character Findings
29:25 Adapting your Loadout
31:18 Named Characters
32:42 Talking about the Terrain in the room
37:58 Overall Feelings
Licensed Music Used By This Program:
“Night Out” by LiQWYD, CC BY
“Thursday & Snow (Reprise)” by Blank & Kytt, CC BY
“First Class” by Peyruis, CC BY
“Funky Souls” by Amaria, CC BY
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Creative Commons - Attribution 3.0 Unported - CC BY 3.0
Free Download / Stream: bit.ly/Funky-Souls
Music promoted by Audio Library • Funky Souls - Amarià (...
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1 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 214

@monkeyinapanzer Год назад

Boarding actions for my friend group was “hey that’s cool we should do that.” Which then immediately hit the realization our armies are like 90% big war machines as we all awkwardly realized we couldn’t make a horde of killa kanz, Leman Russ tanks and Tau suits to fist fight in a boarding action table.

@dittmar104 Год назад

One tau suits unit can be taken just not the mechs. But yeah looking at my eldar and I have ten scorpions and a unit of rangers. What am I meant to do without two falcons, a fire prism and two wraith lords? Where are the guns in my glass cannon shooting army?

@garrettsorensen631 Год назад

@@dittmar104 I understand that most of the eldar aspect warriors are pretty good

@dittmar104 Год назад

@@garrettsorensen631 yeah sadly I've only got scorpions rn but that bording patrol is looking pretty tempting

@DemonLordPANDA Год назад

In my friend group we all wanted to have fun. So i got to use my sneaky gene cult stuff and the ork player got to take a mob of 30 ork boys

@schneecoraxx8689 Год назад

1 cyclic ion (for enemy characters) and 3 flamers per suit. Its expensive, and they are large, but they can shoot in melee and 9 flamers will delete...basically anything id imagine.

@SWProductions100 Год назад

9:20 - shoutout to your editor for adding that great little visual of the "15 rubrics."

@MrCMaccc Год назад

1:55 the Auspex tactics slide LMAO golden Also, I'd say for terrain using a FDM printer instead of a resin one would have probably been better. Larger projects like this are usually better suited for that

@MechaEmperor7000 Год назад

I would go further and say maybe just print greebling and glue them to display board cutouts.

@flameconvoy7424 7 месяцев назад

Plus the auspex tactics intro sound at 2:14

@RageDuck0 Год назад

If you guys see this. You guys do an amazing job at describing rules for play and units so it would be great if you guys could do a series of videos to basically explain the basics of the mane game rules and what data sheets for units are and how they work

@thepoorhammerpodcast Год назад

This is a planned episode when 10th starts this summer, don't worry!

@D0pam1n Год назад

@@thepoorhammerpodcast Exactly the kind of thing that someone who checked out of the hobby 20 years ago is looking forward to. :)

@bobdobbs7828 Год назад

@thepoorhammerpodcast the streamlining of the rules should make this much easier, and with streamlined rules, there will be many people starting fresh or coming back, so you should get a ton of views for that!

@jonathonsiegle9653 Год назад

"This game was just an excuse to sell a product" Literally 40k: *shifts eyes nervously*

@TheCommunistColin Год назад

I played a game of Boarding Action about a month ago. Orks vs. Necrons. Necrons got a good couple first turns and killed a lot of my guys, but I was able to recover and do some damage back. We ended up tied exactly 75-75. It was swingy but never felt unbalanced, and the smaller scale made rolls a lot more exciting and turns a lot quicker. Really liked it, really glad to see it'll stick around with 10th!

@DeMause Год назад

Boarding actions definitely feels like an attempt to get double-value out of the kill team terrain. Glad to hear it worked out for you. Really sounds like kill team but with proper list building instead of the preset ones that kill team basically uses.

@TheKingsPride Год назад

Kill Team is super fun, just don’t expect to be playing 40k. It’s entirely different.

@willkupronis2934 Год назад

I dont know if you guys take suggestions but i thought a funny thing to hear would be "what each faction wishes was removed from its codex"

@phoenixking62 Год назад

Just a small correction: you *can* bring enhancements on non-character units and just give them to like a squad's sergeant.

@ecth97 Год назад

As a craftworld player I’m mad that they took away battle focus movement from us without giving us anything in return, but I fully understand it could have been broken

@Eric-jt8yx Год назад

True. Seems like Eldar would need something to make them unique

@torcaace Год назад

for a silver lining, Eldar will get new rules in the Farsight book, but yeah, that's 45 euros for the rules and some multiplayer missions.

@BentJacket Год назад

As a banshee fanboy, boarding action has been kind to me lol

@chetmanley1885 Год назад

Can't say I'm missing it as there's nothing I need to hide from after the shooting and fight phase

@chetmanley1885 Год назад

@@BentJacket a man of culture.

@redwitch95 Год назад

The whole obsec discussion is pretty interesting in the context of the announced 10th edition's changes to obsec (no longer a trait, now a score every unit has). Definitely looking forward to seeing if that aspect of boarding actions is changed once that comes into play.

@str978 Год назад

This video came out at the perfect time as I am currently trying to convince my friend to get into boarding actions and combat patrols, will definitely send him this video. My solution to avoid the new terrain costs was a terrain set made of MDF wood from etsy (RIP) for $70. Keep up the great content!

@Ben-fk9ey Год назад

If you didn't know in 10th edition Combat Patrols will have their own special ruleset and are all supposedly balanced against each other. The idea is for beginners to be able to grab any box each and play a simplified version of 40k.

@jczerzzz Год назад

So on the bright side for Boarding Actions: They will continue with the same BA rules in 10th edition, they announced that during Adepticon. The downside that the rules will become obsolete when 10th drops is now gone so that's good. Also glad that they won't botch the transition like w/ psychic awakening (from what I heard of it) since they announced FREE RULES!

@Bluecho4 Год назад

Yeah, that Boarding Actions will continue to be supported at least into the start of 10th is a good thing. It would suck if players put down money for expensive products, only to have them invalidated six months later. Isn't that right, Imperial Guard players? You know, with that shiny new codex you were waiting three years for. Having to switch to indexes before the ink was even dry on your books would be a real shame.

@spinnirack3645 Год назад

"If you can't tell from the tone of my voice I have feelings" Whatever you say Mr Necron

@leethax100 Год назад

This whole series of releases seem designed as an on ramp for Kill Team players to get back into 40k with 10th; into the dark > boarding actions > new edition with free rules. It's a slick way to slowly expand your force from a single squad to a full army, with playable games for whatever stage you're at.

@adambartholomew6575 Год назад

This is quite timely; this past Monday the guys down at my store scheduled us for this coming Monday to play a boarding patrol game. We don't have the terrain, so we're drawing it out on white boards. It's gonna be Black Templars VS Sisters of Battle VS Chaos Daemons VS Soul Drinkers(Me, will be running as a Salamander successor) Also potentially Necrons if the one guy can make it. We all barely know what we're doing, it's gonna be great

@caboose759 Год назад

Just got done Necron-izing picasso tiles for boarding actions but I haven't played yet. I put green film doors in you can slide out from the top to simulate the doors openning and everything. So excited to try it out!

@alocascio5825 Год назад

Please share!

@KmcK Год назад

Hahaha 😂 the Auspex Tactics sound when Eric called it a PowerPoint

@Tinytraveler Год назад

This was a fantastic episode, really enjoyed hearing your take on Boarding Actions. I've recently played with my buddy Rob and we had a blast! Here's wishing you two the best in your future games.

@SquidGangRiseUp Год назад

THE AUSPEX TACTICS BIT AT THE BEGINNING LMAO

@rbast Год назад

In Boarding Actions, you CAN shoot through models in your own unit; you just can't see through friendly models in other units. As for stratagems, I assume that CP will be more useful when the rules additions from the other AoO supplements are included. One book has all the chaos strats, one has all the imps, and one for xenos.

Год назад

I am sure thats wrong. In BA you can not trace LOS through: A Wall A closed Hatchway A model that is not part of the observed model’s unit So you cannot trace LOS through any model base unless its the targeted enemy unit. There is even a specific example in the book.

@rbast Год назад

@Florian Hübner you just proved me correct with that quote. 3rd bullet point proves that you can trace line of sight through a model that IS part of the firers unit, but not through models that are NOT.

Год назад

@@rbast The example in the book says otherwise buy hey, play it however you like!

@rbast Год назад

@ Ah. I see now. I misread the bullet point.. and I didn't look at the example (I was glancing through wahapedia). That's embarrassing.

Год назад

@@rbast No worries! GW isn't known for their stelar rules wording... 😁

@Kaldris Год назад

You guys are mental to print terrain in resin over fdm. Awesome episode, thanks guys

@8-7-styx94 Год назад

I based my own terrain off that exact cults3d version. I printed mine with largely hollow walls which saved a ton of resin it seems. I only went through about a bottle and a half. My walls were also a bit thinner so that probably helped a bit. Great vid as always gents, looking forward to what your resin advice would be.

@MekBoooooi Год назад

Just in time as I'm making my first list for a boarding actions demo day this weekend!

@zramirez5471 Год назад

I've looked at the terrain stuff for resin printing and there's actually very little that can make it feel affordable - even titanic "miniatures" use a STUPID amount of resin.i think the best way to get nice terrain like that is to 3D print joints between wall sections and like vents and bits and stuff, then using plastic card or cardboard for the majority of the material

@shigerufan1 Год назад

For terrain in general I think FDM would be the better printing option since it doesn't have to hold the material upside down, thus you can print the pieces hollow for the most part. It'll take a lot longer per piece but it'll still be cheaper than resin material-wise.

@alejandrotuazon4831 Год назад

The problem is that most resin 3d modellers dont take advantage of hollowing out their larger pieces to save on resin

@ironsevs 10 месяцев назад

Definitely would love to get a 3D printing series from y'all!

@kenderareawesome Год назад

genestealer cults from my testing are really strong. being able to use blips to place your models is really strong at 500pts, being able to have units come in from deepstrike and being able to take lots of characters. Abberants are also pretty strong especially as you can take a biophagus as your not capped at 1 character for genestealers. Also giving the kelermorphs liberator +1 damage makes it an amazing gun, the fact the kelemorph can also move after shooting makes it amazing for getting to objectives early or shooting down a corridor and popping back into cover.

@benionin7260 Год назад

Boarding Actions has quickly become my preferred way to play. It's fast, it's infantry-based (I've always preferred infantry to vehicles), and it lacks the bloat of 9th. It's also confirmed to be surviving into 10th edition. I've been mostly running a Necron list built around 10x Lychguard with Swords and Shields. Been very successful with them and have had a lot of fun throwing them up the board. I can see the complaints about destroyer cults models, though. Funny story about the books... there are 5. Each one after the first so far has had faction specific rules: about 3 new Enhancements and about 6 new stratagems. Digestible stuff. Each one also has new missions in it, including many asymmetrical missions (compared with Abaddon's symmetrical missions). There are also White Dwarfs with narrative missions and add-ons and, yes, subfaction supplements for specific formations. So far one Iron Warriors and one Blood Angels. Those replace, instead of adding onto, the book rules. Two other factions have gotten free pdf rules: Cultists of Vashtorr and Gellerpox Infected. I've been loving the game mode so far and am gonna be playing it throughout the rest of 9th and into 10th.

@PownzerX Год назад

Eric king of the short king termies. Can’t wait to watch this!

@Eric-jt8yx Год назад

Great video. Thanks

@ToHellWithReality Год назад

34:00 Resin for minis, FDM for terrain. Resin does not tend to scale well at larger model sizes, and the detail tends to matter less when you just need presentable walls. If you do want it pretty and painted, resin will still be the best result, but for finances? FDM, no question.

@sookendestroy1 Год назад

I'd recommend for 3d printing, one use cheaper resin, two do walls that have slats in them or that have insets so you can say put chicken wire or something in place of solid walls. Heck take some blue plastic sheets, the type you find in craft stores that are see through and put it in for shielded walls and windows. The only place you dont want to scrimp is the door sections

@dickkickem4238 Год назад

The Angron book came out before Vashtor and that one had unique stratagems and enhancements for bunch of factions. It seems like by the time the lion book comes out we'll have those for every faction in the game.

@lordofhyphens Год назад

43:48 As someone commenting FROM THE FUTURE, GW did release the basic Boarding Action rules sans missions as a PDF.

@zacharyallan4640 Год назад

I would love to listen about potentially how to start 3D printing. As someone who used to 3D print with plastic and not resin, knowing what I need/ what I should do would be helpful. That and trying to get into Necrons was a lot more money that I realized when first coming in.

@maximhyland5843 Год назад

Overwatch might work like boarding actions in old editions but in heresy there are reactions and they let you fire at full ballistic skill. They can also fire if a unit shoots at them, or deap strikes if they have a scanner. Did I mention the same unit can do all 3? With a 10 man squad of las-cannons that insta kill anything not T5 and forces anything to take it on invulnerable saves, no FnP allowed?

@donnyj753 Год назад

1:59 well played, looks like the video editor on point again this week

@dittmar104 Год назад

My idea for tau is 20 breachers, 10 strikes, 10 pathfinders, stealth suits and just have the majority of them huddled around a fireblade. Leaving half the strikes and pathfinders on the home objective/s and sending 5 pathfinders and the stealth suits elite/hero hunting. And just having 50 shots with exploding sixes following the fireblade around and give him the trademark weapon so his pulse rifle is 36' RF1 S5 Ap -2 D3 which isn't crazy but its kinda like a shorn-off rail rifle.

@theleopard8755 Год назад

*sees printing price* Index card terrain, got it.

@monkeyinapanzer Год назад

Printing is surprisingly cheap when you really get into it. A decent FDM printer will come in ~200 USD and a 20ish dollar roll of filament held-out for a little over a month of pretty much nonstop printing.

@thepoorhammerpodcast Год назад

@@cp1cupcake To be fair we used resin not FDM, FDM quality is much lower, but it's also cheaper, which is why people use it for terrain. It would have been the wiser call, but I hate using our cheap FDM printer and basically only use resin at this point.

@monkeyinapanzer Год назад

@@cp1cupcake kind of depends on the settings you use, what you intend to print, and cost of filament. When I’m at the end of a roll and don’t trust the printer to finish a big print before running out I set up a few random ruins or something on high or medium detail. If you wanted to print out a whole board of boarding action I couldn’t see it taking up more then two rolls of filament so probably closer to 50 bucks.

@hansyolo8277 Год назад

Look at 3rd party options, they're out there for sub $100

@Malygon Год назад

@@thepoorhammerpodcast I've theorized doing terrain by printing an FDM core for stability and a resin cladding which is glued to the core, so you could keep the quality. Should be cheaper but also more work, in preparation of the STLs and afterwards.

@peterclarke7240 Год назад

Ah, this makes me feel old... Back in the olden days, when all this were nowt but trees, we had to make our terrain from scratch. It's amazing what you can achieve with balsa wood, styrofoam and cardboard that you've half-inched from your school's arts-and-crafts cupboard 😂

@sergiotorrejon4581 Год назад

hi, nice video. how do you control an objetive without OBSEC ability? (for example- elites and cgs list, without troops) thanks

@chrisbeau76 Год назад

What strange about the chaos spawn unit is that the thousand Suns boarding patrol box comes with a couple of units of rubric Marines and two chaos spawn, which is odd because the boarding patrol boxes are supposed to be legal. Can you respond can be taken in units of 1 to 5 so maybe that’s why you can take two? I think if the unit has a minimum of three, then it stays at three but chaos spawn favorite from one to five? I have to look at the rules again.

@MonotoneGames Год назад

Can't wait for the eventual 3-D Printing tips and tricks episode because I may have impulse bought a printer that was on sale.

@Kerberus262 Год назад

The Auspex Tactics tune got me good lmao

@TheSkeletonVA Год назад

Can’t wait to see y’all’s reactions to the new edition announcement along with all the new models that got shown off

@Odesence Месяц назад

ooh that auspex tactics nod lmfao 2:14

@DollClockheart Год назад

They just announced boarding actions will be playable in 10th edition too, so here's hoping!

@Godzillaguy21 Год назад

As someone who's getting into 40k through Kill Team boarding actions has been really convenient. Also if you haven't realized already, a lot of the boarding action rules (including cover) are a variation/straight up how KT does it.

@wulfen_minis Год назад

My first game was at a gw store and I was using space wolves, vs a shooty space marines

@iitsRandy Год назад

actually love your commentary!

@advocateofgus5458 Год назад

I'd love to see your guys take on some of the other GW game systems like Adeptus Titanicus as for my experience it's another really fun game system

@big_digo Год назад

LMAO the auspex tactics sound effect when mentioning a powerpoint

@anthonyg6517 Год назад

You should always use an fdm printer for terrain

@gwildm4298 Год назад

Oh T'au are doing just fine, you mostly play Kroot, Kroot, Kroot and one 3x of Stealth Suits to make use of the Dalyth perk. A 10 Man Kroot squad does not need to split, and has rapide fire on 12' and then wants to charge. Add T'au Tactical Philosophy to it and it can get pretty nasty. Sneak around in the first 2 turns, slowly opening doors, then come out blasting. Kroot Hounds are perfect for coming in in later rounds due to their speed, so they catch up with the battle in no time.

@WatcherontheWeb Год назад

elegoo "dark grey" abs-like resin comes in a 2L bottle size for 32 bucks. Sounds like a PERFECT application for this

@solidsentinel1285 Год назад

It’s pretty much all I’ve been playing lately, only problem is that it can be a little awkward for some armies to build lists

@thexenoist3493 Год назад

You say tau will probably be terrible but have you considered that tau can take a unit with 9 flamers in this game mode?

@thepoorhammerpodcast Год назад

I'll be real, I forgot they could take Crisis suits and thought they were stuck with Stealth/Kroot/FWs.

@GrimdarkSandwich 10 месяцев назад

Does anyone know how the Boarding Actions box compares to the Kill Team "Into the Dark" box? Can you use the cheaper Kill Team box to make up Boarding actions maps with some small adjustments?

@noodles2459 Год назад

Fantastic video

@kraftyevan Год назад

Printing the terrain would likely be much better to print with FDM, I know that many guys have an FDM printer for terrain, but that is another whole printer, which is good if you are making a whole set of terrain like this semi-frequently

@darkfalc007 Год назад

About 3D printing - using a cheap FDM printer (let’s say an ender3) making all this terrain would be much cheaper than resin, and if you calibrate it well, you can’t see the layer lines on tabletop (maybe sometimes, but it depends on the paint job). Is it objectively lower quality? Yes. Is it also much cheaper than resin? Also yes. In my experience, terrain is always best printed on an FDM printer and I print minis and maybe important, centrepiece terrain in resin.

@dittmar104 Год назад

I for one would love to see what 15 beserkers and 3 exalted eightbound could do

@Ferretino Год назад

Probably if you used fdm printer it would been much cheaper. It's the way our local club mostly print terrain. But it much harder to get ready(fdms are still pain) and longer.

@Zombie-tf3xj Год назад

I’m very new to warhammer but it’s sounding very similar to how you play space hulk just on a board

@hitmonleespruce9868 Год назад

Good thing that GW confirmed that this game mode will be transferred to 10th Edition! Hopefully it will be updated to hammer out the small issues!

@Pepagg8 Год назад

The fuckin Auspex tactics intro sound got me

@1986fritzthecat Год назад

how important is the the terrain to this game mode? and by that I mean, how easy would it be to convert away from using the special boards and just using normal gaming terrain. Is the special terrain that important to making this kind of paired down game mode work or would it just be fine and more balanced way to play 500pt games using normal terrain.

@harvey5140 Год назад

All that resin, Can the walls be printed hollow to save resin?

@adamfisher173 Год назад

Ooh I love your chaos spawn

@SpaceHippy 7 месяцев назад

Did you gentlemen notice Obsec was removed in 10th edition? I'm new to the tabletop and super interested in Boarding actions, but then, I am a roleplayer at heart and a sucker for lore. Considering our characters probably spend half their lives on voidships, I'm glad it sounds like a good amount of time and care got put into the mode that simulates conflict on them. I know GW said they would continue to support Boarding Actions through 10th, but I'm not sure whether that means I should shell out the dough for all five 9th ed books and I'll get free supplements later with corrections for 10th, or wait and see if it means they're going to release new seperate books.

@patrickborchert5336 Год назад

I want to see a 3D printing episode so bad

@fujoyoshi4368 Год назад

The overwatch rule your thinking of is Necromunda i believe, which probably means its also like 4th edition

@jarettduker1507 Год назад

Anyone have any terrain stl recommendations for boarding action?

@asmodai6873 Год назад

The Auspex Tactics roast was distasteful and absurd. I love it.

@mordibe5826 4 месяца назад

@26:40 Brad casually foreshadowing 10th....

@rakdosorthvet5031 Год назад

Your designing the impossible is now more possible XD

@johnfroh6774 Год назад

Try Sirayatech Fast resin. Its higher quality but you can get it in 5kg bottles for cheaper per liter. Alternatively Reprapper has excellent resin for cheap

@respectfulevil9022 Год назад

apreciate the auspex tactics joke

@Woeppie Год назад

If I may ask, where did you get those Chaos Spawns?

@Ashdakkadakka 10 месяцев назад

I think overwatch 15:56 works like that in 2nd edition though I could be wrong

@aliciagrayson4203 Год назад

16:05 that's how it works in Necromunda. Post a sniper, give it overwatch, it'll shoot the first thing that moves within its range and los

@vincentmays8297 Год назад

Do you guys think a box dread and sentinals should be usable.

@caledfwltch Год назад

not sure if this was intentional, but the drukari (i think lol) scheme you have are just like the spht from marathon, lookin’ cool!

@thepoorhammerpodcast Год назад

It isn't, but that's also a rad comparison I had never made. It just proves how good my subconscious taste is.

@william3958 Год назад

wonder how this obsec thing will change now that there’s objective weight on every unit in 10th

@RSBurgener Год назад

Thanks for this very helpful review. I just can't justify the expense and the hassle associated with this game mode. Seems like a *really* big commitment for a paradoxically small scale version of the game. You've confirmed the downsides that I feared were a there with boarding actions.

@darko-man8549 Год назад

For terrain, just buy the plastic magnetic tiles

@reubenmccallum3350 Год назад

So it sounds like you guys missed Angron - that had a bunch of factions in it as well. I'm pretty sure all factions will have their own rules by the time The Lion comes out.

@jeramyneeley3351 Год назад

I love my 3d printer. Saves me so much money for Terrain.

@WilhelmScreamer Год назад

Badruk and flash gitz is mad fun

@leethax100 Год назад

I'd love a 3d printer episode!

@demonic_myst4503 Год назад

Well they stated boarding is going be in 10th edition aswell so it be more acessable ones 10th edition brings it i hope

@hansyolo8277 Год назад

I love boarding actions, other than the $210 from GW terrain. Luckily there are lots of 3rd parties out there with much more reasonable prices.

@tbone11x Год назад

Got a link?

@brickhill3025 Год назад

Happy days

@ludorockfriend8581 Год назад

We came up with a decent Tau list it’s heavy Kroot, played it versus Tzeentch daemons,

@Gvaz Год назад

my first boarding action was with my necrons vs plague marines and typhus just destroyed my destroyers. and I barely did any decent damage

@olivermatthews8110 Год назад

While the boarding team boxes are good value (and most are good combos with the combat patrols), aren't they excluded from your roundups due to being limited runs? (although I have heard some suggests they aren't so *shrug*)

@canceledlogic7656 Год назад

What are the models at 25:14?

@Andy-jq5yw Год назад

But what resin do you use?

@Nomnomnomnomie 5 месяцев назад

What resin do you use?

@ginga2250 Год назад

Never played before, just generally curious: When you say command points are useless, could they just be all spent on relics for a hyper elite force? That sounds like it could get some really impressive value, dark angels specifically could have sticky obsec on all of their units and all be buffed to the teeth?