Bogi's Carmen always gives me chills. Soviets performed dance elements in 3s. This is true for figure skating too. One for the skill, one for the judges, one for the audiences. So glad I found your channel. I miss this style of gymnastics. Yes, I'm old! GET OFF MY LAWN!😂😂
First, thank you for the kind words about my channel. And I'm old too so you're in glorious company. I'm also a skating fan and know that quote from an old skating broadcast.. I just can't quite place who said it.. Sandra Bezic, Tracy Wilson, Dick Button, or none of the above? 😂
"A feast for the eye with avant garde flare..." I love it Wally! This video is SO good! That's exactly what I feel for Bogi's routine! Thank you so much for this video! :)
Great report of an unforgettable time.....miss it so much. I just came back from holiday Romania and talked al lot about Comaneci and Silivas with the people there. Great and beautiful country onevof the most beautiful countrys in the world. Visit it if you can.
This was awesome! Yes, I agree with the judges on this one. (Even though my spirit dies a little every time I see Silivas lose an all around). Thank you so much for the fantastic content, Wally! Be well!
Awww thanks, love! I know I'm not exactly a Silivaş fan (to put it mildly 😭), but I was really impressed with her at this meet. Especially her vaulting. Also, I don't think I've actually watched any of Dana's routines from 87 Euros.. which you'd think would be one of her better meets.. on paper anyway. I should do that.
I don't anymore! 🙏 (And the reasons I did were stupid and foolish ones I'd had in my mind since I was literally 19 years old. No excuse, but it's nice to have finally discovered the truth. Sorry if this is vague but it's honestly pretty embarrassing so I would like to forget I ever had these notions to begin with 😭.)
Thing with Bogi and Elena, is they'd just grind you into the ground. They were like a honey badger. Just never ever giving up. It must have like competing against a freight train, you knew wasn't going to break. Elena 👑 you are missed.
There absolutely is a reason they both excelled in one of the most demanding and competitive programs in the sport's history! The thing with gymnastics, like many sports, is that it has innumerable components--both mental and physical. Some don't like the style of Shushunova, Boginskaya, or both.. but no one can deny their incredible consistency and ability to typically bring it when it counted (when in relatively good physical condition). Honestly, off the top of my head, I actually can't even remember a meet where Shushunova fell off beam (although a) I do have a horrible memory and b) it surely happened at least once). It's also not a coincidence her worst showing at a meet was during the EF at the 88 Olympics, where she was clearly experiencing a letdown from achieving what she had spent the majority of her life working towards. It's very understandable, and often happens that the OGM in the AA rarely wins multiple golds in EF as well.
Obligatory Post-Video Addenda: PLEASE READ #3!!! 1. At the 01:13 mark, I meant .25 not .025 2. Boginskaya also dismounted floor with a full-in at 1989 USSR Nationals--in addition to FX Finals at these same 89 Europeans. Interestingly, Silivaș got the memo from the AA and did a full-in dismount in Finals as well. They would both receive perfect 10s and tie for the Brussels floor crown, and it would be déjà vu with the identical outcome later that fall during Worlds in Stuttgart. The comparison between the two Finals is eerily similar right down to Silivaş receiving 10s across the board to Bogi's 5 10s and 1 9.95 in both instances. Unreal! And while I think I've made my feelings about the 89 Worlds Final abundantly clear on multiple occasions (😭), I was extremely impressed with Dana's Europeans EF routine. I honestly wouldn't have been mad had she beaten Sveta outright for the floor title! 🙌 IMO choreography-wise 88 Carmen > 89 Carmen. Both times she did the routine in Brussels, the first leap/jump series isn't nearly as crisp as it was in Seoul. Not sure why 🤔. 3. YUGE UPDATE: Boginskaya appears to not attempt a mixed series in either beam routine here, which was a Special Requirement. She also really didn't do a gymnastic series in her AA routine either, another SR. Per the code, it was a .1 deduction for missing each SR, so Bogi absolutely was given every benefit of the doubt and then some. But another SR is my favorite *Jump or Leap with Great Amplitude*, which Dudnik never achieved IMO--yet always scored above 9.9 on beam, even scoring a perfect 10 at Worlds. This is seriously infuriating that the judges could be this incompetent. But if anyone watched my video about Nellie Kim & Svetlana Khorkina, it's absolutely not surprising.
What a great video, clearly you spent a lot of time and care with the editing and analysis. I always find your videos insightful, interesting and entertaining. Thank you and lots more please.
Amazing channel! Silivaș was maybe the most important figure in Romanian gymnastics legacy....yes.... because she was the point of meeting after Comaneci and before Miloșovici and Gogean...an important key point
Thank you! Silivaş' compulsory floor routine from Seoul will go down in history as one of the most beautiful and euphoric moments in the history of Women's Artistic Gymnastics. (At least in my opinion, as well as for many others.)
What a great video... Thank you so much! Loved also the moments you were looking back to the Olympic Games also! I always watch your content from the beginning to the end, because there is never a dull moment and I love the way you comment on things.
I think I'm most proud of how I correctly pronounced Boginskaya approximately 97% of the time in this video, as opposed to the embarrassing effort I achieved in my video celebrating her iconic Fiesta routine from Stuttgart: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8Zpvg2T5378.html
Big mistake to watch this while getting ready for work. I was so stressed at the tension and suspense you built. I loved the video as usual! Will make sure to watch next time when I'm more relaxed haha
That was a kind of traumatic moment for me in 1989, Silivas, again, losing the title 😢 But I love your video, you did great work. I wish youtube existed in those time. I think I would have watched gymnastic video's all day long.
Русские советские гимнастки всегда были великолепны в образе на ковре,Турищева,Лазакович,Саади,Шушунова ну и Богинская сложеная так великолепно и красиво все это очень привлекает публику да и судей.Силиваш вначале своего пути делала сложные сальто на тот период,а вот ее хореография страдала.На Олимпиаде 1988 она проиграла и это ее сильно подкосило,но я не знала что она и в 1989 проиграла на Европе Богинской и все с маленьким отрывом.Наверное этот стресс Даниелу совсем расстроило,есть видео где она уже набрала вес сильно и не могла прыгать свои сальто,то ли это был ЧМ 1989 то ли это она уже на Профессиональном чемпионате,это меня очень удивило,видимо Даниела просто перестала соблюдать диету.
Great video. One thing that is fascinating was Svetlana's front summersault mount was innovative in this era, and the judges rewarded her for it. But in the 1996 Olympics, Svetlana scored very low on the beam (9.4 - 9.5 ish) despite hitting her routines in both AA and TF. My suspicion is that by then the judges deducted 0.1 twice (once on the mount and once on her front tuck on the beam) for a total of 0.2 off, due to a somewhat low, cowboyed, squat position in the landing. It's the only way I can up with her low beam scores in the 1996 Olympics, because they seemed too low otherwise.
Great video essay! Silivas is my favorite gymnast so I love seeing anything that dissects her competitive performances. I think Svetlana got a way with a lot of form errors in her day. The cowboy tucks, and that bounce out of her second floor pass landing are good examples of it. I don’t think her 10 is warranted so I guess I disagree with her win. But it was so close. Why not a tie? Haha I’m curious what you’d like to see change to the current code to make gymnastics return to its glory days? Personally I miss beam series and connections on floor, like the 2-way passes, or just a pass with lots of whips. I guess I prefer simple skills done well over the crazy hard stuff with bad form. I’d even be open to some sort of compulsory stuff, similar to how Ice Dancing had a compulsory pattern a few years ago.
Also, if you want to get nit-picky, Silivaș did slightly over-rotate her mount (as Boginskaya did on her middle pass). I think the double tuck dismount gave two judges pause and reluctance to score it a 10, and that ended up being the difference once Boginskaya threw the full-in dismount.
I don't. I judged all the routines and had Shushunova ahead by a tenth. Going for the double double in Optionals really cost her, as did the two balance checks and hop she had in her AA beam routine. But it turns out Boginskaya wasn't deducted for missing a Special Requirement in her beam routine here at Europeans, so Silivaş definitely was robbed of this title. (Unfortunately, my timing is awful and I didn't find this out until after making the video 😪)
@@thesovgc it’s ok! You did a great job. I find it interesting that although Shushunova won the AA, she did very poorly comparatively in the event finals. She won a silver on beam and a bronze on bars whereas Silivas has 3 gold medals and a bronze.
Great vjdeo and i like your descriptions of the whole competitions. It is as artistic as the gymnast. Personally i think 9.975 was a little high for Bogi on beam as Romanian also complained she missed out some elements like jump turn. In a same way, i think 9.925 for Dana's beam was high as she made a several errors.
Yes, I heard that when I watched the British coverage of EF. I'm curious about the merit to the Romanians' complaint, but haven't yet looked hard enough into the 1989 COP to see the potential issue.
Hmmm the Special Requirements list both a gymnastic series and a mixed series. Boginskaya appears to have neither 💀. She paused after her first leap.. And then maybe the element she did before the second one could be considered an element, but I'm skeptical... I don't even see an attempt at a mixed series. Now I'll have to re-watch her EF routine. It absolutely should have been a tenth deduction for each SR missed.
Now I feel silly for not watching the full EF before recording this. (I only watched vault and bars.) I absolutely would have pointed it out had I known Boginskaya's routine was missing an SR. (Maybe that's why the one person so far disliked the video 💀)
Potorac's first two events were beam and floor, where she got 2 9.862s. She then finished with a YUGE 9.987 on vault and an OK 9.887 on bars. Onodi finished on what would eventually become her two best events, but must have made a mistake on floor bc she only got 9.837. And finished with a 9.925 on vault. This website is a must: www.gymn-forum.net/results.html
Silivas had also dismounted with a double tuck in the 88 Olympics... So was it a real downgrade? It was in '87 she did the full in for the last time as a dismount.
I guess what I was trying to say is that Silivaş was capable of doing the full-in dismount, as I feel Boginskaya taking that risk is what won her the title IMO. It was a bit of foreshadowing, if you will 😂.
I don't know if I'd say 88 was the closest "by far" Mary Lou beat Szabo by .050. I've always thought it was funny the way the AA scores progressed. 1980 - Davydova won by .075 1984 - Mary Lou won by .050 1988 - Shushuno won by .025 1992 - Tatiana G. won by .012
@@thesovgc Like...the whole thing or just the gymnastics? Are you salty about Greg Louganis or Carl Lewis? The 1984 Games might feel incomplete, however, there was some stellar gymnastics. I also truly believe that some gymnasts got their due because the Eastern Bloc wasn't involved. It's not a mystery that often very deserving gymnasts were lowballed in favor of Soviets, East Germans and other Eastern Bloc gymnasts. Without their meddling and influence, we got to see girls like Julianne and Mary Lou get rewarded. I'd love to have had Mostepanova as Olympic Champion too, but I believe Mary Lou was a top 5 AAer even with the Soviets, and you know she would've been 10th or something.
@@matthewhines9787 well, I was 5 and have no living memory of the Games.. So I mean the gymnastics competition. Obviously, I am a simp for Soviet Gymnastics, so I can't take a meet excluding them seriously. Especially considering they were far and away the best team at the time. I'm a bit surprised that you think MLR was a Top 5 AA gymnast. I've said she probably should have finished 7th-10 AA in a fully attended Olympics. And been a medal contender on vault and floor. If you take the 3 Soviets, Gnauck, and Říčná (all of whom were better than her IMO) that has her 6th. Then ofc you have Szabo as well as the second and third Romanians. Then there's Dřevjaná and the Bulgarians as well..
@@thesovgc You're kind of proving my point. You're naming these girls like Pauca, Drevjana, Ricna, Dudeva, Stoyanova; and you're assuming 3 USSR would be better than her. Look, I don't love MLR style and I prefer a more fluid lyrical Eastern European style. I'm a simp for _good_ gymnastics. Of course the Venn diagram of great gymnastics and USSr/RUS gymnastics overlaps a lot, but putting Drevjana, Shushunova, or even Ricna assuredly over MLR requires ignoring the _good_ gymnastics she was doing. She was IMO the best vaulter in the world. I kind of wish the soviets had been there just to show the difference in height, distance, and pure dynamics of her vaults and all cute neat tiny tidy vaults of Mostepanova and Shushunova. She was probably the best tumbler. She was the first to do a real fully stretched double layout. She had form technique and power. She was also expressive...if not artistic in performing her floor routine. Truthfully, if you take away the bubbly personality, she's Chusovitina. With fair, non Eastern Bloc influenced judging, MLR at her best was 10.0 on VT and FX. She also had a really dynamic UB routine which was way more unique and fun to watch than Mostepanova clip her left foot on her Tkatchev every time. I'd give her a 9.90 on a hit UB routine. Beam is tricky because it's a competitive and worthy routine...that I don't like. I'd give her a 9.8 for a a hit beam routine. That'd give her bronze Olomouc over Shushunova...though Shush was lucky to make it to AA finals anyway. God bless Frolova.
@@matthewhines9787Are we ignoring when MLR put her hand down and showed full support after her second pass during Optionals like the judges did? I would have to be blind to say MLR was superior to any Soviet on that team, inconsistencies aside (Baraksanova & Ilienko), except Frolova. (Sorry Tanya.) Yes, Mary Lou was an EXCEPTIONAL WORLD CLASS vaulter and tumbler, but her beam was not really elite level, let's be real. Also, Mostepanova did do her Tkachev without clipping her feet a couple of times--from the Olomouc scores it appears she likely did during Optionals but not AA Finals. I also overlooked Gnauck in your post, if you mentioned her. So undoubtedly I would say the three Soviets, Gnauck, Říčná, and Szabo (who only lost bc the judges ignored Retton's middle pass during FX Optionals.. despite falling on bars) should have outscored Retton. That puts her 7th.
I always wonder why Boginskaya didn’t keep this level of difficulty for 92… Dismouting with a full in on floor, doing two releases on bars… she needed that to be more competitive in the 92 AA I wonder if she’d been injured or something
She only did one release on bars here. I think she only competed the Gienger once or twice. And you're definitely right. She absolutely needed that extra difficulty to be competitive in 92. (Although I'd argue had she kept in the double turn she did on beam at 92 Worlds, she would have been OK on VT and BB at least.) She 100% was hampered by injury in 92. She could barely *mount* with a tucked full-in on floor in Barcelona 😔
@@thesovgcyep. Only one release here and in most of her career… but in 1990 World Cup she did do two, right? One thing I find curious about her is that in 96 she came back with much more difficult, double Arabian on floor, double layout dismount on bars, Y1.5… It seems that in the beginning she and her coaches would choose form over difficult (which was a good choice, since she was basically the best/favorite for around 3 years (89-90-91))
I just think her body was *done* by 92. When she came back in 94/95, she'd had multiple years of rest so she was able to compete difficult skills again.
I read once that Boguinskaya had a mental block on her tumbling leading up to the 1992 Olympics. Her and Zmeskal had the worst timing for developing their own issues there. I think that’s why Svetlana was very sympathetic and supportive of Simone Biles at the 2020 (21?) Olympics when she developed the “twisties”.
@@danielgoncalves5499: i guess Boguinskaya never did a double arabian. If so, tell me in which competition, I would love to see that and trust me, I guess I saw pretty everything online hahaha
The score may not have been fair but the ranking was correct. Most of the scores in those days were eye-watering when looked at with an objective lens but Boginskaya just performed better
Oftentimes during this era, scores were used as placemarkers more than anything. So I often don't think of 10 = perfection. It was the only mathematically higher score to give compared to Silivaş', so therefore I think it was the correct score to give.
