Exactly, and it wouldn't have even been borderline had they not had him batting lead off for four straight years, then had him batting 5th in the order for two years 90-91. Who puts their best batter 5th in the order? He would have had wayy more RBI's.
Oliver Solorzano Are you crazy? His Pittsburgh stats alone would never qualify him for the Hall of Fame. Why do people keep pushing this false narrative? Have you seen his Pittsburgh stats? His first four seasons in Pittsburgh the highest batting average was; .283. First 4 seasons best home run total was 25 in 1987. RBI? 59 RBI in 1987. None of his first 4 years in Pittsburgh qualify as Hall of Famer or even All-Star. His last 3 years in Pittsburgh were All-Star caliber and netted him 2 MVP. His Hall of Fame numbers came when he got to San Francisco. So, no. His totals in Pittsburgh are NOWHERE near Hall of Fame and would not put him in any kind of Hall of Fame.
@@hr1megthis is ridiculous 8 golden gloves, 7 sliver sluggers, and 2 MVPs isn’t enough? You realize 32 players in the history of the game have gotten 2 or more MVPs right or you just start picking up the game
Ever since they let the Astros keep their title in ‘17, why does it matter anymore if a player takes PED’s. If baseball couldn’t take that title down, then I don’t see a problem with steroids users being in the hall of fame. Baseball ruined the purity of this game. Bonds should be in.
This is a stupid comparison. The group of people who decide who gets into the hall of fame are not the same people who are letting the Astros keep their 2017 WS title. Rob Manfred isn't deciding who gets into the HOF, and the BBWAA weren't the ones who dished out the punishment for the Astros cheating.
Let's just remember that Bud Selig, who was the commissioner during the steroids era and celebrated a lot of these players, is in the Hall. There has to be a double standard. If he is in then those players should have some serious consideration. Not condoning what they did at all but I would like the committee to look at them holistically and not have such a bias.
You realize the commissioner who implemented the morality clause was directly responsible for excluding black players from MLB... with other players who have cheated already in the hall of fame.....
the hypocrisy of these can't hack it writers denying greats the hall of fame, when they celebrated Bud Selig's induction. The Hall of Fame just like much of the game is so out of touch with the modern world. It makes me sick.
Steroids doesn’t affect technique, Bonds, Clements and Rose (although for betting) had technical abilities. Steroids is strength and stamina , did they really need that to win?
This is an example of "cancel culture". Judging someone's past by today's standards. These same writers voted to give bonds those 7 mvps and clemens his 7 cy young awards.
@@alohasnackbar5619 I’ll check that. If he really said that; then F Hank Henry Aaron…. of my ATL. F him for not understanding LIFE; and how it changes. The GAME is all important, but never 👎 more so than LIFE itself. 😇😇🤭🤫😞😒😔. I stand by my words. FIRM 😟🧐
It’s important to note 📝 they got it right. ESPN’s list of Top 🔝 100 💯 MLB Players Clemens is there listed as the 17th best ALL TIME! Bonds is #8. And in fairness to Hank, he sits at #3 ALL TIME!!!! With the King 🤴 👑 of swat THE BABE at #1 where he belongs above 👆 MJ, Joe cool 😎 and Tom Brady for his documented cheating as well. 👼☝️
So, unless you agree with the voter's politics, you don't get in...RIIIIGHT the argument against Schilling is precisely that, ...saying otherwise shows arrogance, sanctimony and self-righteousness...and therefore not worthy of voting on
@@xcwilliams7980 because many of them have publicly said so, using the " character " clause as cover....Schilling has done nothing that can even be close to bring questions of character into play, save his political opinions
@@TheBatugan77 if Alan Tramell can get in who wasn’t even close to being the best player at his position. When he played. Dale Murphy won back to back NL mvps & literally carried a awful team for years. I understand the argument for Pete Rose on both sides.
@@TheBatugan77 yes they should I understand Pete did wrong I’m a reds fan too but they’re people who literally killed someone who is in the hall of fame
I’m sick of these writers thinking they’re better than players they shouldn’t even be able to vote them in! It should be Hall of players & Hall of Fame coaches who vote people in not these dweebs!
They both cheated their asses off, but there’s no way in hell you can keep either Bonds or Clemens off the list!!! If you just take Bonds career from 86-98 (prior to steroids) he’s a first ballot Hall of Famer, just ask Bill James!! I despise them both, but give me a break, they both deserve to get in!
@@frankderudder7290 Many if not most players of that era were juiced. MLB looked the other way because home run hitters were putting fans in the seats.
Why is bud selig in the hall of fame if he allowed all of this? All these owners from that era are glorified and they allowed it and encouraged it as well. And now the players pay the price when they saved the game after executives ruined it. Put Barry in, put Roger in.
If the Baseball hall of fame has players like Mike Mussina and Jeff Bagwell in it, but not Arod or Barry Bonds (or Pete Rose for other reasons) then I'm never spending my money to visit the hall of fame. XD
Bonds was a all time great before steroids. I would vote “skinny” Bonds in the Hall. I would also want to see Rose and Shoeless Joe be added to the Hall
nope.....everybody keep saying "well, both of 'em qualified for Cooperstown, BEFORE PEDs became illegal in the game. Really?...PEDs are not just comprised of the sort of enhancers that help you gain weight. So, as far as Im concerned, they could have very well been using some type of 'performance enhancer' before they weren't allowed in the game. Willie Mays has admitted to using "greenies', Should he be penalized in some way for using them back in the day?...nope. But its because of guys like him, that discourage me from giving Bonds/Clemens, a pass.
If you want an asterisk...put it on the RECORDS. NOT on entry into the Hall. None of the folks can even slightly say Bonds wasnt good enough apart from the assumed steroid usage. Would he only have 700 homers? 300 less RBIs? take even MORE away from his totals and you still have an undeniably worthy candidate.
BARRY LAMAR GREATEST PLAYER EVER 💪 FIRST BALLOT HALL OF FAMER SHOULD BE I HALL WITH WILLIE BABE MADDEN CUNNINGHAM MJ BIRD JACK AND WOODS... U WILL AT ALL COSTS.. IF U AREN'T CHEATIN U AREN'T TRYING 💪💪💪💪 LIKE AL DAVIS SAID. WIN BABY WIN 💪
I understand why Clemens and Bonds aren't in, but how the hell is Schilling not in? What does his off-the-field beliefs have anything to do with his playing career? You may not agree with his comments or beliefs, but you absolutely need to acknowledge the fact that he's one of the best postseason and big-game pitchers EVER.
Schilling's case is more than that; Most Hall of Famers and baseball players hold similar beliefs as Schilling. The truth is that he was a bit more of an outspoken jerk during his career and burned lots of bridges, and his numbers weren't stellar enough to make up for it. He'll likely get in anyway next year Larry Walker-style, and personally I think that's offensive to Larry- who was a great role model/guy and an exceptional player.
@@Airplane299 if mussina is in, then schilling should be in as well. schilling has 200 wins, a sub 3.50 ERA, a 1.1 WHIP, a 3.20 FIP, oh AND 3,000 strikeouts. his stats and accomplishments more than make up for the political comments or whatever he said these last few years. i didn't even mention his postseason accolades either. it just seems like the goal posts keep getting shifted on who gets in and who doesn't. now they're not voting guys in who pissed people off and made some remarks 10+ years after they retired? comeon. and to make it even more ridiculous, the astros scandal SHOULD HAVE set a new precedent when it comes to how the league ultimately views and enforces cheating that has a chance to effect the game. what they did in terms of cheating and actually affecting the game is much worse than trying to decipher what stats and accomplishments bonds would have and wouldn't have without steroids. same for clemens. the commissioner decided the astros get to keep their championship, to me that means the gates should open now and guys like bonds, clemens, sosa, mcgwire etc. should all be inducted. just my opinion. if they removed the astros' title at least the league would have an argument that they have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to cheating.
@@the_console-girl-9778 it's a popularity contest with woke baseball writers. Bonds hated the media after they mistreated his Dad. Hes the Home run king. That is a fact Steroids don't make you a Hall of famer..Rosenthal is woke!!
@@the_console-girl-9778 Yeah, I agree with this as well. Bonds and Clemens won't get in due to drugs. Curt on the other hand, will not get in due to politics. That's the "woke" the guy was referring to above.
@Chad Miyamoto you are exactly right. If he didn’t take steroids he would have probably been a top ten hitter in the mlb history. But when he took steroids he also increased his average 17 points and his ops sky rocketed to inhuman categories.
@@Ballhawk-bi6ly Yet almost everyone around baseball has said that he would've been a HOFer regardless. This is a silly at this point. He and Clemems deserves to be in.
@@mcdonoghrahloh459 Why do you think he was getting so many more walks and intentional walks? These two things aren't separate. His use of steroids made him hit more home runs which made pitchers pitch around him more and intentionally walk him more.
As far in the records book, Bonds is the homerun leader. Some people will say Babe Ruth will always be the homerun king (people thought of that decades after Hank Aaron broke the career record).
@@waynej2608 Lets just not count any records before 1947. Let's say they all cheated by forcefully fighting against integration. There is no "clean" era of baseball I'm sorry, people need to drop the idea of it.
@@jordanking6939 When first being traded to the Yankees, Babe Ruth played 4 seasons in the polo grounds. At that time (according to baseball almanac) the left field wall was 279 feet while the right field wall was 257 feet. That's a routine fly ball in today's game. It's also very significant because he was a left handed primarily pull hitter and would have the 257 foot fence advantage. During those years (3 of the 4) the center field fence was 433 feet, not the 505 feet people think of when they think of center field at the polo grounds. I could go into a lot more depth on this all, but I'll leave it with this. In his lone year where he played the full season with the fences in/shallow he hit 59 home runs. When they moved center field fence back just 2 years later in his next full season he hit 41 despite playing in the same exact number of games. In the end I believe Aaron did it in a tougher era with better pitching and bigger fields.
Bonds and Clemens should have been voted in the first year of eligibility. This is nonsense. Sportswriters actually get to vote who gets in. That is a problem that needs to be fixed. Bonds and Clemens went out and performed at the highest level against the best in the world, and some sportswriters get to decide if they are hall of farmers? Something is wrong with the system.
Curt Schilling saying that his politics is what cost him hall of fame is a gross lack of self-awareness. I'm certain a lot of ballplayers agree with his politics, and they would get in. He has made a ridiculous amount of public, controversial, and outright offensive statements. Long story short, his mouth and his fingers got him in trouble, not his brain or his heart.
Steroids does not improve your judgement or hand eye coordination. If anything bulking up would make it worse and harder to manage all the extra muscle. How do you feel when you are over weight vs. lean and healthy. Just ask any actor that puts on weight to play a role in a movie.
it's not a black and white issue. being a conservative is fine. acting the way schilling does has nothing to do with being a conservative. he's a piece of shit, politics aside, he just blames politics on the way he is treated
agree.. anyone who seen him play on the Pirates and his first three years on Giants.. He was already Hall of Fame before the steriods. Also everyone was doing it too.
@@AROD617. the best comparison to early Bonds is Mike Trout. won 3 MVPs when he was young, a 5 tool player with Gold Glove defense, insane base running, elite power, and consistently high OPS. we all can agree Mike Trout is a HoFer, so why isnt Bonds?
Need a non coastal Hall of Fame. You know, one where normal people, not woke coastal biased self proclaimed elites are the voters. 99% of baseball fans could care less about the distorted sensibilities of the current voters.
I support that each writer votes the way they want. But at least Frick'n Vote. I only ask that at least the top guy get elected. At least 1 each year. Other than that, my opinions (only my opinion) as a humble fan is 1: Bonds and Clemens should not get in, in this way. If Mac and Palmeiro (stat-wise locks) can't, then these guys shouldn't get in just for cheating better/more/longer/later. They and many of the other "suspects" should be put to a committee years from now. Maybe 10 or 20 years. 2: Pete should get in soon. Can enough of baseball forgive him before he dies? (How long until Houston is forgiven?) Fundamentally, I'll accept it either way. 3: Shoeless Joe, he's already dead. It keeps people talking. They'll never let him in. 4: Shilling, I personally don't know how despicable he really is, but stat wise, he's a lock. Shoulda been elected already! 5: In fact many of these guys shoulda been elected already, as well. The veterans committee should elect at least one guy each year. This would go along way towards restoring the image of the HoF. I love baseball. Stats and stories, and you can't tell either without the other. No one and everyone is ever wrong in "Who is the best?" Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Rogers Hornsby, Ted Williams ! Who would you rather have up, bottom of the ninth? Depending on what the HoF is trying to be , you gotta ask yourself, "Can you tell the story of baseball without this guy?" Thank you for reading this, have a great day.
Some of us were there, Bonds helped save baseball. Along with Sosa and Mcguire. No one said anything at the time while ratings were soaring. Despite all that, keep the damn politics out of sports and vote based on stats. No reason Curt shouldn't be in. Cancel Culture at it's finest. Hope the MLB tanks.
I still believe in the end, those two should be in, together. That one person not voting for Bonds, don't know their problem. Happy that Schilling is out.
Not to worry. There's the Oldtime Committee. The New ERA committee. The baby-boomers committee. The woke committee. The sleep committee. The Committee committee. And the itty-bitty-titty-committee.
Barry Bonds and Clemens will never be HOF. Bonds had hostile attitude problems to his teammates that include altercation with Kent, which he never apologized, and Dusty Baker favortized to Bonds. How some of his teammates feel? Clemens he never apologize to Piazza for threw bat incident. Overall both Bonds and Clemens no HOF.
