I read The Bee Sting for the booker prize, and I found it so frustrating. It was 300 pages too long as Murray kept the story going through many instances of the idiot plot. Every character had to do and say the wrong thing every time to make the story work so I agree with you about the failed communication aspect. The whole bunker/trench subplot irritated me beyond belief. I also read Old God's Time for the Booker, and I thought it was gorgeously written and full of empathy. It has stayed with me after a year.
We are obviously in tune as readers. I do think that there was a good shorter book within The Bee Sting that was obliterated by growing too long and convoluted. The bunker thing was ridiculous. How was he funding it too? None of it made sense. And as you say characters' behaviour was in the service of the plot regardless of plausibility for the individual he had drawn. So sad that Old God's Time missed the cut for the BookTube Prize quarter finals. I don't think it suits some types of reader though.
It's funny that I was itching to read The Bee Sting while we were reading The Singapore Grip, and I started it and then...I put it down and haven't had any interest yet in picking it back up. I loved Skippy Dies, but this one is giving off Franzen and I am NOT a Franzen fan. I agree that it felt exaggerated or manufactured. I wasn't interested in Big Swiss until I saw Brian gave it his number one spot. The book that intrigues me the most from this group is Old God's Time, so I'm happy to see it's your top pick.
I enjoyed Big Swiss a lot. It was way ahead of my five and six books. I can quite imagine putting Bee Sting down and never returning to it. Wish I had!
I can’t believe you didn’t like The Bee Sting. Wow. I absolutely loved it! I’ve thought about for weeks now since finishing it. I felt I really came to know the characters well exactly because of the length. I think the characters made bad choices because of their emotional trauma and subsequent limitations. The bunker situation was a bit odd, admittedly, but I also think it was a bit symbolic - though I’m still hashing out what the symbol is exactly.
I know many people loved it and it certainly had strengths. I'm glad it worked so well for you. It's a wonderful thing that we can all enjoy different books.
My kids would say that Lehane does what he does well. His books don't "reinvent the condom". I heard Groff speak about The Vaster Wilds. She said that it, Matrix and a book in process are a loose trilogy about religion. Matrix was her Catholic book, Wilds was her protestant book and the book in progress is her atheist book. Knowing that, it might be interesting to read all three books together someday.
Loved seeing your thoughts on these books. I also had never heard of Loved and Missed. I had Big Swiss in my favorites of the year because it was so unhinged and made me both gasp and laugh at the extremes of the story. You are not wrong about all the sex. 😂 I also felt the same as you about The Vaster Wilds- I devoured it, too. And I also found Old God’s Time to be so interesting- subtle, layered, and so well paced! I loved how it threw all my assumptions out the window.
I did enjoy Big Swiss too. It was well ahead of books 5 and 6. Unhinged indeed. And yes part of the pleasure of Old God's Time was how it seemed to be one sort of book and turned out to be another.
You are spot on for The Bee Sting. It was too long, especially given how shallow the characters were. The book was selected for the inaugural Nero award. Spoiler - the ending - hope they all died. Definitely looking forward to Old God's Time.
Subtle, short, intense and with a difficult MC? I’m in for Loved and Missed! You’ve also sold me on Old God’s Time. Like you, I find Lauren Groff’s style exhilarating.
I think Loved and Missed should hit the spot for you too. And I'm glad you have the same feeling about Groff. I know some people don't but I think it may be that she breaks historical fiction rules.
Excellent review! I read Old God's time when the Booker 2023 longlist was announced and found it the second most memorial book of them all. Prophet Song was my number one and Bee Sting I finished, but only because I wanted to read all the books on the short list.
I had no idea others had felt that way about The Bee Sting. It is a relief to hear your opinion. I am sad Old God's Time didn't make it to the BookTube Prize next round.
Vaster Wilds is definitely consumable. Liked hearing your insights into it, the fable like quality makes sense but wasn't something I picked up on. That's the only one I've read... And didn't like largely for the impossibility element 😅 it seemed extra incomprehensible how we got the mention of the guy who had been out there for years that sees her from a distance and she's better off than him at survival seemingly.
I think as a servant she had more skills and resilience to bring to the situation than he did but yes lots one could pick holes in if taking it more literally.
We had 5&6 flipped but our take on both books was pretty close. I definitely would have DNFed the Bee Sting. Disagree about Imelda’s section I think. I loved Big Swiss though. I have no m more of the sex description. 🤔At least we agreed about the bottom two🤓We were really similar overall.
Nothing aggravates me more than a really long book that doesn't justify its length! Between you and Brian I feel less and less interested in The Bee Sting. Lauren Groff is appearing at a book festival I'm attending this month and I haven't read any of her work yet - this sounds good!
No worries, I gave The Bee Sting three stars and was also considering bailing on it. I found it quite generic and it was definitely too long for its own good. For me this book just wanted too much and failed in achieving the best possible outcome. I'm usually a big fan of Irish literature, but this reads like an American novel to me. There was a total lack of place in it and every time Dublin was mentioned, I was kind of surprised that we are not actually in Michigan.
