Botchery, line tracing & core drilling 

Sorry for the delay, I intended to have this out at the Easter weekend, but I ended up on other duties!

The display's staring to fail on mine, but it's still going strong!

@@dsesuk : Hi David thanks for the reply, mines the test-um long distance tone tracer. Can't remember the number off hand, but it's served me well for tracing alarm & telecom cables on large Commercial / Industrial sites. Keep up the excellent videos. Andy

I know, an oversight here as I do normally wear ear defenders when core drilling. That said, I have already done too many jobs without them in my time and now have mild tinnitus.

A good tip, ta!

Fine folks I find!

I think the difference here is that the homeowner has probably been charged a fair whack for this work, and they're under the impression that it's been installed by a professional and is an improvement over whatever was there before which may not be the case. Elsewhere standards may be lower as a consequence of the economics, but people know that and work with what they have, often with pretty awful consequences as you describe.

Yeah, I normally wear them, kicking myself for not having them on in this one, it's a dumb oversight!

Smells worse.

Some of My favorite boards over the years had full metal exteriors, and a flame retardant plastic interior lining. Great combination of material, the interior is thus resistant to electrical shorting and arcing from loose conductors/cores, and the exterior provides fire containment and the earthed metal outer enclosure provides noise shielding and physical protection. I wish they were all made that way.

Me 2 they look class

Bought the PunEng one £30 works a treat. Evil bay. 😁

Hi Nick.People are certainly keen to see videos on-the-job. iMovie or Movavi are easy to use video editors. It can eat up an awful lot of time, and no matter what you put up there will be some who want to give you a comment bashing. There are certainly far more popular chaps than myself on this platform, so I guess I'm not doing it right or giving people what they really want! That's okay though, I'll carry on knocking out the odd video so long as it's not a chore and isn't bad for business. Audio is my biggest headache, I can never seem to get it quite right. Have a play with an editor and see how things turn out. I sometimes find that the videos I think are the most shonky and least prepared favour more views and better feedback, so that shows all I know!

I want the word "want" and a fullstop at the end of that sentence, but apart from that you are giving me what I want. Your videos are thoughtful and informative.

No that’s great thanks, I realise there will always be someone who thinks they know better, I follow a few sparks on here but you have a laugh and get the job done at the same time 👍 I’m editing my first video now and it’s taking longer then me getting qualified so I know what you mean. Keep up the quality work 🤙

Hey Dave I got round to doing a video, would love it if you could take a look if you have the time cheers nick ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zZNOEooDwt8.html

👀

😂😂😂

Ha! That would make NIgel akin to Baldrick then??!

@@dsesuk do you pay him in turnips? 😂

@@SamMegadeth He's worth his weight in turnips!

Haha, David's next challenge is to get Rik's characters "WOOF!" into one of his videos...

@@dangerousdave5076 Challenge accepted!

Bu-duh-bu-duh-baaaa!

Spot on, old tricks are the best tricks. I have been on site and picked up nearly 200v after the Main Swt was pulled, only to find it was capacitance held in bunched cables, simply grounded the energy soon disipitated the voltage to zero Mr Spence Eng

Probably. But if he gets a shock, he can't blame me for moving the those wires into contact with live parts.

Bang on, the ends of any and all dead unused cables should be as a minimun std be terminated within a suitable sized crimp and a lable affiexed "Dead Cable" . I personally prefer to pull them out of the board and terminate them in a JB and then labele on the outside cover "Dead Cables" But as to the general mess that board was in, it called for a notice to be issued to the householder informing him of the dangers and faults present, then walk away job done. Mr Spence Eng

No reason why not. The trick is to not put between line/neutral unless you know all loads have been removed (or the signal will be suppressed), and to disconnect neutral/earth at the board to prevent it crossing into neighbouring circuits.

Yeah, but I've been on the same Erbauer core for years (surprisingly) and despite one missing tooth, it's still boshing holes in walls on Hammer Time!

Thanks Paul. It was the D.A.D.E. shown in the Five Lesser Known Tools video from December 2018. It stands for Dust And Debris Eliminator if I remember rightly!

Calibration pricing should be the same regardless of the MFT. The wholesalers usually have calibration days with fixed fees applied to the type of tester (MFT, PAT, single function, etc.)

Sushi n' scotch eggs: together at last!

No, I don't bother, but I always note it on the certificate under 'Comments on existing installation' along with when the installation was last known to be tested and inspected (if ever).

If something were immediately dangerous, then I'd make it safe, but when it comes to unbotching poor workmanship I have to be careful. For something like this, I'd draw up a specific list of what is wrong and what is to be fixed and agree it directly with the client. I got caught out once when righting someone else's wrongs when the homeowner pointed at something shonky we hadn't even spotted and accused us of having done it! It can be a can of worms working with someone else's mess.

Low cost, high effectiveness! Indispensable on comms cabling, but comes in very handy for electrical installations too if used right!

Unless you get to the end where they are not shielded or if you put the tone down the shielding

Always use a core drill with a clutch, and keep awake and alert whilst drilling. ⚠️😂

Or maybe my drunken powers extend beyond rural Warwickshire....

@@dsesuk Crikey all the way to the port of Bristol. Apparently you are never more than 72 miles from the coast Thats impressive.

I know, that line core butted up to the sharp edge of the knockout.... there's just no need for such shoddiness!

When it comes to an MFT, splash out as much as you can afford. Some good second-hand bargains can be found from those who bought the toys perhaps intending to retrain or go it alone before deciding against it; two in my collection were picked up in a practically unused condition from eBay and CEX. To future-proof yourself, try to get a more modern model that supports Type-A and perhaps Type-B RCD testing. The best tester I own remains the Metrel MI3100S because as well as being well featured, it displays the most information at-a-glance. It's about the most important tool a sparkie has, so it pays to get something as fully featured as your budget allows!

@@dsesuk thank you.

Both the minor works and EIC have fields for recording Line/Neutral and Line/CPC IR results. On many minor works, I'd probably just do the one test with line joined to neutral and tested with respect to the CPC in which case I'd put LIM or N/V into the first box, then the test result in the second box. If the result is high enough, I'll probably not bother going around unplugging items, but if it's low then I'll want to know why. If it's on an EIC, then I'll likely have either installed the circuit or will have undertaken major work on it, so that would be fully tested.

@@dsesuk ok mate thanks. The ir tests can be a pain if lots of sensitive equipment such as lights with transformers all in the ceilings and you can't get to them. Would this just be live and neutral combined to earth.

If I was testing between line and neutral then they would have given me a zero reading as they're a connected load, but they shouldn't affect a reading when line/neutral are joined together and tested to earth.

Can't say I'm a fan of it, especially at height. Domestically speaking, it's not too bad with the SDS, we only have to knock in a few every year. Anything tougher and I'd happily pay someone else to take it on!

My daughter worked there for a year, it was hanging around after she left so I nicked it.

Ha ha I worked there for a year part time after I left school and kept the M apron and my mum still has it!

They're quality McGarments!

@@dsesuk I got a name badge from the one employee, and used a labeller on it. Gave it to a sweet girl who I know, who would never get a job there for reasons beyond her control, but who is just so nice anyhow.

I hit one when core drilling a couple of months back. I usually manage to chew through them. I'm always amazed at how well that core drill has lasted - I've had it years, and it was only an Erbauer one from Screwfix. One tooth chipped early on so I didn't expect it to last, and on most jobs I lose patience and whack it on hammer after a while, but it's still going strong!

@@dsesuk That's great, thank you very much! Really impressed by that screwfix jobbie, good info, nice one 👍

They don't like plywood though

I'll put my money where my mouth is soon and show something I've installed, then everyone can have a chance to put the boot into my work!

What is it with the Mc Donalds hat? :)

Largest EICR I undertook was at an office with a warehouse and kept three of us busy for a week. These days, I'd rather take on little house bashing jobs for a simpler life!

@@dsesuk I'm thinking two of us for two weeks at this point, and the landlord's expectation is... well, we'll see. Or we won't see, because it'll just go quiet....

In the consumer unit? 522.8.1 and 522.8.11 talk about avoidance of damage to the sheath and of sharp edges. There's also the requirement for the top of the CU to be to IP4X (416.2.2). There won't be anything specifically about grommets though.

Ah, that's a shame. Still, that's the kind of thing and the kind of price I'd be expecting to pay unless someone can show me why the likes of the Fluke 2042 commands such a high sticker price!

Not a definitive list on the cert itself, but I'll note that there is 'evidence of poor workmanship which fails to satisfy the requirements of BS7671" or suchlike. I also always note when the last inspection/testing date was if there's a sticker or chart indicating such (or I'll explicitly state that it is unknown and recommended if not).

@@dsesuk nice one cheers.

You have to wonder how they see this through their own eyes. They must assume it's acceptable, or perhaps they just don't care? Can't understand it myself. Doing it this badly means you just short-changing some other working stiff in their own home.

Had one fitted for free when the energy supplier fitted a smart meter.

Quite right, and normally I do when core drilling. This was a surprisingly soft brick and I was through it quicker than expected.

Ay?

Just to stop them coming into contact with any live parts while they're floating around inside that consumer unit and someone else is working on them.

Maybe from those who recognise their own standard of workmanship and don't like it publicly criticised.

Hi Laurence. It's always tricky when turning up at an unfamiliar site to know which circuit serves what. You can unplug all loads, but you can't be completely sure something somewhere hasn't been missed even if a continuity test between line and neutral shows no loads. In this case, I didn't remove any loads before undertaking the test, but the test was performed with line and neutral tied together which means although the test voltage is being applied to both, there's no potential difference between them, and little risk of damage occurring. It's not really any different to a PAT test. If we were PAT testing the appliances at this house, we'd plug them into the PAT tester and do the same thing: stuff 250/500VDC up line and neutral together to see if anything leaks out to earth. There is a risk that something plugged in to a single pole socket which is switched off will see the test voltage applied only to the neutral and not the line, but this could also happen on a PAT test where the appliance is tested where a single pole power switch is left off, there's a fractured core in the cable or if the fuse has failed in the plugtop. Here, the connected equipment will skew the numbers, but the advantage of testing with appliances connected is that you're seeing what IR that circuit as a whole is currently presenting which is something you need to know in an RCD trip fault such as I waffled on about in another recent video. The result I got here was a pass with everything connected, but the actual number for the circuit wiring alone is likely to be a lot higher. I guess the bottom line is that with the exception of specialist equipment I'm not likely to find in a pensioner's home such as this, whatever kit they have ought to be able to withstand a PAT test. To date, I've not had any complaints of fried electronic goods from either IR or PAT testing, although it's always a risk such could happen. I hope that explains it?!

David Savery Electrical Services I missed the line and neutral tied together and that answered the question perfectly, I was thinking test was between line and neutral... perfect again, please go back to your well deserved beer. Thanks for the videos (and humour) mate.

Haha! It's a rare night off the sauce for me, I need some sleep! If I am testing L-N, then I usually perform a continuity test first to ensure it reads as open circuit, then I test at 250v. If that comes back as clear, then I might whack it up to 500 or just go with the 250 result.

Tommy Oz never hear “arvo” outside Aus! G’day from the land of the poms

I do have ear defenders, and I do normally use them when core drilling. A bit if an oversight on this one.

Fair enough that’s understandable

I know what you mean, it was a bit odd turning up to find a Clarkson Evans van already on the drive (they disappeared after we arrived so we didn't get to chat with them). I think they're appointed for the kitchen refit, but the bathroom was something that the plumber had been left to sort out, and he used us as his preferred electrical partner. I don't know what they thought of the state of the CU or what testing they had already performed as part of their work.

David Savery Electrical Services clarkson evans doing something other than a new build house??

Not something I've seen before either, I thought they just did the big contract work(?)

David Savery Electrical Services Sub-contractor to the conservatory company? It’s almost new build...

@@dsesuk probably find that the electrician from clarksons is doing a side job and disappeared so he doesnt get clocked and reported.

Taskmaster wasn't working out.

It was remiss of me not to show the correct use of PPE during this drilling operation. I have a (rather expensive) full face mask on the van, as well as good ear defenders, and both are usually used when core drilling despite their omission here.

It was CEF who asked me to look at Quickreel, and my understanding was it was about four weeks away from being in the store, but they still don't seem to have it. I told them I'd link to their product page in the description when it came out, but haven't heard anything further. As far as I know, it should be hitting the shelves sometime soon!

Been keeping an eye out for it, got to be worth a shot. Keep up the good work anyway mate, tradesmen like you that give us all a good name! Nothing wrong with being to safe now a days. Everyone’s out to get a peice of you when some shit hits the fan

Sadly the low cost of replacing a consumer unit these days is often reflected in the poor workmanship.

Saves me combing my hair.

I think the certificates are pretty awful and could do with a redesign, maybe even a split between domestic and commercial seeing as the requirements can differ so much between them. From my experience though, where the workmanship is this poor, the paperwork, if there is even any, will also be nonsense. Sadly, nobody checks it unless something terrible happens.

David Savery Electrical Services ..I agree with your comments let’s just hope someone sees sense about the paperwork ,but let’s be honest some arsehole is sitting in his office and justifying his job by inventing more !!!

Someone with letters after their name who hasn't worked on the tools in the past thirty years.

Probably plumbers

So should I.

​@@dsesuk I'm sure the internet H&S club has already told you that. That junction that was shown at the start of the video is that going to be inaccessible once the wall linings go on? How do they get away with that sort of thing?

That got tidied up and enclosed in a Wagobox. Different countries have different rules when it comes to inaccessible junctions, but in the UK enclosures and connectors complying with BS5733 and installed to the manufacturers' instructions can be left inaccessible (regulation 526.3). More on that here: www.dses.co.uk/index.php/free-advice/180-inaccessible-junctions

@@dsesuk We can do crimp joins with two lots of heat shrink in NZ otherwise it must be accessible. Can't be hidden in a wall.

Seems common in a lot of countries that. Thank feck for 526.3 here, otherwise life would be a lot more difficult!

Ah, well, I'm afraid whatever I do, there is always someone on RU-vid to tell me it's wrong!

I was pointing out the discrepancy between what you as a spark are expected to do and what the regs say. Follow the rules and you can't fill out a periodic inspection form! Doing as you (and most other sparks do) gets round this but can cause problems ...... maybe we should expect the governing body to actually know what they are doing and care enough to sort it out?

Ha! Fat chance! :D

Nah, that's just a catalogue price. CEF have them at £959.94 with VAT, Toolstation at £998.00. Even then, mine was second hand at £500 but looked like it had never been used.

The problem here is that the industry is unregulated. If the previous installer left no paperwork and took cash for the job, then proving they even did the work is awkward. Even if there is a paper trail, if they're not registered with a CPS, that only leaves you going down the route of Trading Standards and a private prosecution which most homeowners can't be bothered with for fear of reprisals and spiralling costs. If the installer was registered with a CPS, then the CPS will require them to go back and make good, but who wants a crap installer back in their house? If they couldn't get it right in the first place, why would you want them back with a chip on their shoulder? It's all down to the homeowner though; it's their installation and I can't force them to pursue a past installer, nor can I act on their behalf without their permission. In the past, I have produced reports for homeowners to explain why the work is unsatisfactory so that they can use it as a basis for making a complaint, and I have once acted on behalf of a homeowner in an official complaint to a CPS. These are documented on my website at dses.uk under the blog section: Cowboy Competition 6 and 5 are articles where I assisted the homeowner by producing written evidence of the poor workmanship. In #6, the homeowner didn't pursue matters I don't think, but my relationship with them went sour as explained in that piece. In #5, the homeowner was able to get some compensation from the high street kitchen supply company as they failed to ensure the work performed by their subcontractor was up to snuff. The article Cowboy Competition 4 explains what happens when I complained to a CPS about their installer, and how futile it all was. Without regulation, there are few routes for complaint, and the effort, potential costs and the effectiveness of those avenues that are open make it a difficult experience. What I can do which is easy is highlight examples of bad workmanship on this channel and on my website to make it more recognisable to the public, or at least to those who stumble across my ramblings.

David Savery Electrical Services Thank you.👍 Maybe the solution is a mandatory disconnect of electrical supply if there is no evidence of installers details (that threat may flush out recalcitrant property owners). Supply may be reconnected after payment of full survey fee and contract agreed on remedial works. How does that sound? I think Gas Safe do this.

Building regulations don't apply to plumbers. They can install pipework wherever and however they like. Also, if you've been to site and drilled holes through joists in preparation for cabling, they're allowed to nick them for their pipework as they see fit!

@@dsesuk You are wrong. I refer you to www.gov.uk/building-regulations-approval It clearly states that Building Regs applies to any work to "install a bathroom that will involve plumbing". A wet room is classed as a bathroom. As a 'professional' trades person, you should be careful to get your facts right before flaming others.

@@steveemmawood8719 I think you'll find he was being sarcastic!!

How would you get the waste pipe out then ?

Steve emma Wood the issue isn't the wet room, it's the incorrect drilling and notching of joists.

Annoys me too.. No excuse. That red live conductor on the CU hole edge was a short to earth waiting to happen. Unfortunately I see this in metal back boxes with no earth connected and making screws and class 1 metal housings live!..

stuffing glands are much better

No, no, NO! I sorted this in a Twitter poll back in April: twitter.com/dseselectric/status/1123331835042385922 - conclusive proof that I'm right and everyone else is wrong!